Re: [Tagging] lanes=3 + lanes:forward/backward=1 for "semi-divided" roads?

[Marc Gemis]

You could add lanes:both_ways=1 turn:lanes:both_ways=left

regards

m

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Albert Pundt  wrote:
> Consider High Street in downtown Carlisle, PA. It is one lane each way, with
> a wide space as wide as a travel lane in the middle, but not used for
> anything such as a center turning lane. Tagging this with just lanes=2 seems
> wrong since it fails to take into account the lane width separating the two
> travel lanes, and since there is no raised physical divider, it doesn't seem
> right to mark it as a dual-carriageway road either. I've seen lanes=3 used
> along with lanes:forward=1 and lanes:backward=1, but that seems like it
> might be confusing.
>
> What, if anything, is the proper way to tag roads like this?
>
> --Roadsguy
>
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[Tagging] lanes=3 + lanes:forward/backward=1 for "semi-divided" roads?

[Albert Pundt]

Consider High Street in downtown Carlisle, PA. It is one lane each way,
with a wide space as wide as a travel lane in the middle, but not used for
anything such as a center turning lane. Tagging this with just lanes=2
seems wrong since it fails to take into account the lane width separating
the two travel lanes, and since there is no raised physical divider, it
doesn't seem right to mark it as a dual-carriageway road either. I've seen
lanes=3 used along with lanes:forward=1 and lanes:backward=1, but that
seems like it might be confusing.

What, if anything, is the proper way to tag roads like this?

--Roadsguy
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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[John Willis]

Javbw

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Dave Swarthout  wrote:
> 
> I think a subtag for dryers is appropriate and could be useful.

I agree!  The extended campground proposal has a separate tag for both. 

Side note: 

I imagine laundromats could have a whole 

Laundromat:foobar=n  scheme. 

Laundromat:10kg_dryer=8
Laundromat:20kg_dryer=2
Laundromat:10kg_sidewasher=3
Laundromat:20kg_sidewasher=1
Laundromat:shoe_washer=1
Laundromat:shoe_dryer=1 

Would be the closest laundromat to my house, Kg are approx. 

I have never really read up on the tagging scheme, maybe they do. 

Traditional Japanese residences have washing machines only and line-dry 
clothes. Even in the winter (snow on the ground, but sunny today) people have 
laundry out under deck covers or carports (so many houses have carports, almost 
none have garages for tax reasons). 
There are washing machines that dry 1/2 a load, and there are dryers for sale, 
but the "average" Japanese household doesn't have a dryer. My parents' US 
household hasn't line-dried anything in 25 years - regular household washers 
and driers in the US are giant compared to the small 7kg laundry /55L water 
washer we have here (they measure capacity in Kg of laundry, dunno how it is 
done elsewhere). There are "western" washers for sale, but they are exceedingly 
rare. 

So the laundromats in Japan have oversized  side-loading industrial washers for 
futons, as most houses can't wash futons, and usually there are more dryers 
than washers (at least here in suburbia), as when it is raining, people bring 
loads of wet laundry down to dry them. The large driers can handle ~20kg of wet 
laundry. 

Here is an average suburban Japanese coin-laundry on some blog: 
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/harukien1/9914343.html


Having the type of machine and its capacity and count, and specialty machines 
(agitator washing machines, sneaker washers, etc) are great. Agitator (with the 
center post) is very rare here, even at laundromats. Top-loading household ones 
don't have agitators, so what would be "standard" at a us laundromat 
(top-loading agitator machines) is a rare specialty machine at a Japanese Coin 
Laundry. Seems dryers are that way for you =} 

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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Dave Swarthout]

@John, An observation:

It's a funny thing but since I began traveling a number of years ago, I
noticed that while dryers are quite common in the U.S., they are less
common in the rest of the world, especially in poorer countries. A very few
laundry shops here in Thailand have dryers, most do not. Probably 99% of
clothing in Thailand is dried outdoors in the sun. People who use automated
washers take their washed and still wet clothes home where they hang them
out to dry. That's not too practical in wintry climates, agreed, but
Americans use dryers even in the summer.

I think a subtag for dryers is appropriate and could be useful.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 5:29 AM, John F. Eldredge 
wrote:

> Here in the USA, I have never seen a self-service laundry that did not
> have dryers, but I don't know whether that is true worldwide.  I suppose it
> is best to err on the side of caution and include a subtag for the presence
> of dryers.
>
> On February 11, 2017 8:18:27 AM Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> On 11 Feb 2017, at 10:28, Dave Swarthout  wrote:
>>
>> shop=laundry
>> automated=yes
>> self_service=yes
>>
>> covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I would
>> much prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is shop=laundry.
>>
>>
>>
>> do we imply driers as well? Should we have a subtag?
>>
>> The staffed laundries often offer also dry cleaning, which I've never
>> seen in an automated one, and the wiki suggests a different main tag for
>> them: shop=dry_cleaning
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Ddry_cleaning
>>
>> IMHO, as apparently there are mixed types, it would be better to organize
>> this as subtags within the laundry tag, e.g. dry_cleaning=yes/no/only
>>
>> cheers,
>> Martin
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-- 
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Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[John F. Eldredge]

Here in the USA, I have never seen a self-service laundry that did not have 
dryers, but I don't know whether that is true worldwide.  I suppose it is 
best to err on the side of caution and include a subtag for the presence of 
dryers.




On February 11, 2017 8:18:27 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:



sent from a phone


On 11 Feb 2017, at 10:28, Dave Swarthout  wrote:

shop=laundry
automated=yes
self_service=yes

covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I would much 
prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is shop=laundry.



do we imply driers as well? Should we have a subtag?

The staffed laundries often offer also dry cleaning, which I've never seen 
in an automated one, and the wiki suggests a different main tag for them: 
shop=dry_cleaning

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Ddry_cleaning

IMHO, as apparently there are mixed types, it would be better to organize 
this as subtags within the laundry tag, e.g. dry_cleaning=yes/no/only


cheers,
Martin


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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[John Willis]

I think the individual tags in the extended camping proposal covers this. 

If there is a coin-op machine or two for campers to use, then tag the amenity 
on the campground's node/polygon  - the suggested washing_machine=yes dryer=yes 
tags. 

If there is some other scheme for mapping the machines and their job, I should 
be updated (like how people use vending+object to map a lot of different 
things). 

If it is some shop/building that services the larger community or provides it 
to a larger set of people, tag it as a shop=laundry. 

I can't imagine it is good to tag an individual machine or an amenity of larger 
building as a shop. 

Most large apartment complexes in San Diego have a small coin-op washer-dryer 
room. I would _never_tag that as shop=* anything. It is not a shop. It is for 
residents only. It shouldn't be in the tag space for a laundromat, or a million 
wrong locations will pop up when searching. 

I think it is difficult to map an amenity of a place with the tags we would use 
for shops. 

There is a difference between a vending machine and a cafe - though both serve 
coffee. 

Both should be available for tagging. 

Javbw

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 1:10 AM, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I would like to get this discussion back to my original question. I used 
> about 30 camp or caravan sites in the USA and most of them had self-service 
> coin-operated washers and dryers.

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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Warin]

On 12-Feb-17 03:10 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote:
I would like to get this discussion back to my original question. I 
used about 30 camp or caravan sites in the USA and most of them had 
self-service coin-operated washers and dryers. These are services like 
toilets and convenience stores for their customers. You also find 
these in most US motels. The number of machines varied from one 
washing machine plus one dryer to five ore more, depending on the size 
of the site. In most cases they were in separate rooms labelled 
"Laundry". For the convenience store on a camp site I would happily 
use the shop key whereas for the laundry facilities I would prefer 
something like

washing_machine=yes|NUMBER
dryer =yes|NUMBER
In alternative, simply laundry=yes
All three could go on a campsite node or areas or on buildings on the 
campsite. I do not expect no-fee laundry facilities, differently from 
showers.


I would see these as sub tags for laundry=yes, much like self_service 
=/yes/no. /so they 
would be used with laundry=yes tag.
A warning example is the dryer key ... that feature can also be taken as 
a drying room in the UK, fruit drying in agriculture... by using it with 
the laundry tag the confusion is removed.
//To document them I would use the discussion page of laundry ... 
/http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:shop%3Dlaundry///This keeps 
them off the 'approved' status page of laundry. /

/
washing_machine=yes is implied in laundry=yes, as such I would not 
suggest it./


/


On 11 Feb 2017 10:30, "Dave Swarthout" > wrote:



On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
> wrote:

Scattered around the UK in towns such as Saffron Walden are
'launderets' (this one is not in OSM, and I hesitate to put it
in as my memory of the location is not good, though Google
looks to the correct)  .. self service machines coin operated
(usually with very expensive coin operated soap powder -
better to buy that at the local supermarket). 



@warin, what is the point of your comment? Are you suggesting
adding shop=launderet and if so, why?



My point is that these things are not rare and can be found in most 
populated places, the names changes a bit as you can expect.



shop=laundry
automated=yes

I have little idea what automated=yes means .. where is it documented? 
It could mean that you put your washing in one machine and it 
automatically is washed, dried, and ironed from the one entry ... dream on.


self_service=yes

covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I
would much prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is
shop=laundry.


-- 
Dave Swarthout

Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com

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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Volker Schmidt]

I would like to get this discussion back to my original question. I used
about 30 camp or caravan sites in the USA and most of them had self-service
coin-operated washers and dryers. These are services like toilets and
convenience stores for their customers. You also find these in most US
motels. The number of machines varied from one washing machine plus one
dryer to five ore more, depending on the size of the site. In most cases
they were in separate rooms labelled "Laundry". For the convenience store
on a camp site I would happily use the shop key whereas for the laundry
facilities I would prefer something like
washing_machine=yes|NUMBER
dryer =yes|NUMBER
In alternative, simply laundry=yes
All three could go on a campsite node or areas or on buildings on the
campsite. I do not expect no-fee laundry facilities, differently from
showers.

On 11 Feb 2017 10:30, "Dave Swarthout"  wrote:

>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Scattered around the UK in towns such as Saffron Walden are 'launderets'
>> (this one is not in OSM, and I hesitate to put it in as my memory of the
>> location is not good, though Google looks to the correct)  .. self service
>> machines coin operated (usually with very expensive coin operated soap
>> powder - better to buy that at the local supermarket).
>
>
> @warin, what is the point of your comment? Are you suggesting adding
> shop=launderet and if so, why?
>
> shop=laundry
> automated=yes
> self_service=yes
>
> covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I would much
> prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is shop=laundry.
>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>
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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Philip Barnes]

On Sat, 2017-02-11 at 16:28 +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Scattered around the UK in towns such as Saffron Walden are
> > 'launderets' (this one is not in OSM, and I hesitate to put it
> > in as
> > my memory of the location is not good, though Google looks to
> > the
> > correct)  .. self service machines coin operated (usually with
> > very
> > expensive coin operated soap powder - better to buy that at the
> > local supermarket). 
> 
> @warin, what is the point of your comment? Are you suggesting adding
> shop=launderet and if so, why?
> 
> shop=laundry
> automated=yes
> self_service=yes
> 
> covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I would
> much prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is
> shop=laundry.
> 

Makes sense it British English too. 

One I mapped locally 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3290672526#map=19/52.85607/-2.72189
ayers=N

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 11 Feb 2017, at 10:28, Dave Swarthout  wrote:
> 
> shop=laundry
> automated=yes
> self_service=yes
> 
> covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I would much 
> prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is shop=laundry.


do we imply driers as well? Should we have a subtag? 

The staffed laundries often offer also dry cleaning, which I've never seen in 
an automated one, and the wiki suggests a different main tag for them: 
shop=dry_cleaning
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Ddry_cleaning

IMHO, as apparently there are mixed types, it would be better to organize this 
as subtags within the laundry tag, e.g. dry_cleaning=yes/no/only

cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] knotted willows

[Wolfgang Zenker]

Hi,

* joost schouppe  [170211 09:43]:
> One of the defining small landscape elements in Flanders (and probably many
> rural areas in Europe) is the "knotted willow". I'm not sure if this is the
> right term in English, in Dutch "knotwilg" really is a thing.

> How would you tag such a thing? (I could not find any previous discussions
> anywhere)

> natural=tree
> genus=Salix
> +
> management_style=knotted

> Or something like that?

> Apparently there's two words in Dutch:
> - knotwilg: knotted at about 2 meters high
> - grienden: knotted at a hight of maximum 50 cm

apparently english has words for these managements styles:
- "knotwilg" would be called "Pollarding"
- "grienden" would be called "Coppicing"

Wikipedia has pages on both.

Wolfgang

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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Dave Swarthout]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Scattered around the UK in towns such as Saffron Walden are 'launderets'
> (this one is not in OSM, and I hesitate to put it in as my memory of the
> location is not good, though Google looks to the correct)  .. self service
> machines coin operated (usually with very expensive coin operated soap
> powder - better to buy that at the local supermarket).


@warin, what is the point of your comment? Are you suggesting adding
shop=launderet and if so, why?

shop=laundry
automated=yes
self_service=yes

covers it nicely. In the U.S., we use the term laundromat and I would much
prefer to use that scheme but the established tag is shop=laundry.


-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Dave Swarthout]

Agreed. I think shop=laundry is the correct tag.

If available only to campers, use an access tag. Add other tags as
appropriate for automated, attended, etc.


On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:28 AM, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>
>> I see on the wiki page
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_site
>> the option
>> shop=laundry
>>
>> This does not seem to be appropriate to map caravan sites that offer
>> self-service coin-operated washing machines or dryers (and it seems not to
>> be in use anyway).
>>
>
> I lived for years in such a caravan site, feel free to see how I mapped
> it.  http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.16709/-95.86615
>
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Chiang Mai, Thailand
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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Warin]

On 11-Feb-17 07:48 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:28 AM, Volker Schmidt > wrote:


I see on the wiki page
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_site

the option
shop=laundry

This does not seem to be appropriate to map caravan sites that
offer self-service coin-operated washing machines or dryers (and
it seems not to be in use anyway).


I lived for years in such a caravan site, feel free to see how I 
mapped it. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.16709/-95.86615


Scattered around the UK in towns such as Saffron Walden are 'launderets' 
(this one is not in OSM, and I hesitate to put it in as my memory of the 
location is not good, though Google looks to the correct)  .. self 
service machines coin operated (usually with very expensive coin 
operated soap powder - better to buy that at the local supermarket).
Sometimes you may find a 'supervisor' .. most of the time not. I think 
there is little difference between the two .. though usually the camping 
crowd are more friendly.
My memory of the location such places is vague .. while a good thing to 
use they are not something that I find that attractive, I tend to 
remember the town, where I staid, the people and attractions I found.


In the more populated parts of Australia and NZ you can find 
'Laundromats' .. similar to the UK ones but with a better climate.
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Re: [Tagging] self-service laudry machines a camp and caravan sites

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:28 AM, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> I see on the wiki page
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_site
> the option
> shop=laundry
>
> This does not seem to be appropriate to map caravan sites that offer
> self-service coin-operated washing machines or dryers (and it seems not to
> be in use anyway).
>

I lived for years in such a caravan site, feel free to see how I mapped it.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/36.16709/-95.86615
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[Tagging] knotted willows

[joost schouppe]

Hi,

One of the defining small landscape elements in Flanders (and probably many
rural areas in Europe) is the "knotted willow". I'm not sure if this is the
right term in English, in Dutch "knotwilg" really is a thing.

How would you tag such a thing? (I could not find any previous discussions
anywhere)

natural=tree
genus=Salix
+
management_style=knotted

Or something like that?

Apparently there's two words in Dutch:
- knotwilg: knotted at about 2 meters high
- grienden: knotted at a hight of maximum 50 cm



-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

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