Re: [Tagging] rail routes: how are platforms and stops associated (rail question 2)

[Jo]

I'm sorry about removing the video. This time the sound was recorded, but
everything remained black. I think I'll start using Hangouts on Air from
now on.

If you only want to draw a map of where the buses travel, maybe version 1
of the PT scheme will do. If you want to know how they actually get from
one stop to the next, it won't. Those version 1 route relations are also
hopeless to do maintenance on. There is no way to check their continuity,
so it's not even possible to flag them as 'broken'. They get mapped once
and from then on, they start degrading.

Now, I won't say that PT v2 is ideal, there is a lot of double work in
them, where buses share the same itineraries. My hope is, that at some
point, we'll use "super"-relations for them composed of route segments.

If you like we can do a hangout where I can demo the current state of the
plugin. It would be good to test it on train routes. It's meant to work on
all kinds of public transport route relations. This year we'll expand the
scope to other route relations, as it doesn't make sense to fix PT and not
get warnings for those routes, when they were modified. Coding on the new
functionality will only start in June, but this is the second year the
plugin is being developed.

Jo

2017-05-13 17:15 GMT+02:00 Tijmen Stam :

> On 12-05-17 23:44, Jo wrote:
>
>> I think what I'm trying to say is: there are many more bus routes (and
>> their variations) than train route relations to be mapped. If we insist
>> that it has to be:
>>
>> stop_position
>> platform
>>
>> so double tagging, I think I'll abandon and I'll understand that most
>> people will never start mapping public transport as it is effectively
>> too complicated.
>>
>
> That would be a shame.
> In my view, I have no problem with mapping stop_positions and platforms,
> even though the old version (with just the highway=bus_stop) seems to work
> fine too.
>
> I'm working on automating it, during a second GSoC of code project now,
>> but that is something that will always remain a burden. Duplication of
>> tagging and the apparent need for adding information about stops twice
>> to the route relations.
>>
>
> Very interested in that project.
>
> So my question remains: why can't we have NODES with all the details
>> next to the road. These nodes in the route relations and have the
>> stop_position, the platform way, the shelter, the waste_basket, the
>> bench as extra items that go into a stop_area relation, preferably one
>> per direction of travel ?
>>
>
> I have no answer to that. But there's no real necessity to convert to
> version 2 except your own drive to do so. IMHO, for most intents and
> purposes, a hybrid works just as well.
>
>
> I just spent another hour and 20 minutes converting 1 line from version
>> 1 to version 2. The 'simple' way. It might have taken me 2 hours or more
>> if everything had needed to be mapped double.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R9cQ73YZp8
>>
>
> Video removed?
>
>
> My main demotivator in the public transit mapping is, is that our main
> renderer (mapnik) won't cope with the public_transport version 2 scheme for
> some (seemingly simple) technical reason, i.e. it won't name platforms that
> are not a node tagged with highway=bus_stop.
>
> Tijmen/IIVQ
>
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Re: [Tagging] rail routes: how are platforms and stops associated (rail question 2)

[Tijmen Stam]

On 12-05-17 23:44, Jo wrote:

I think what I'm trying to say is: there are many more bus routes (and
their variations) than train route relations to be mapped. If we insist
that it has to be:

stop_position
platform

so double tagging, I think I'll abandon and I'll understand that most
people will never start mapping public transport as it is effectively
too complicated.


That would be a shame.
In my view, I have no problem with mapping stop_positions and platforms, 
even though the old version (with just the highway=bus_stop) seems to 
work fine too.



I'm working on automating it, during a second GSoC of code project now,
but that is something that will always remain a burden. Duplication of
tagging and the apparent need for adding information about stops twice
to the route relations.


Very interested in that project.


So my question remains: why can't we have NODES with all the details
next to the road. These nodes in the route relations and have the
stop_position, the platform way, the shelter, the waste_basket, the
bench as extra items that go into a stop_area relation, preferably one
per direction of travel ?


I have no answer to that. But there's no real necessity to convert to 
version 2 except your own drive to do so. IMHO, for most intents and 
purposes, a hybrid works just as well.




I just spent another hour and 20 minutes converting 1 line from version
1 to version 2. The 'simple' way. It might have taken me 2 hours or more
if everything had needed to be mapped double.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R9cQ73YZp8


Video removed?


My main demotivator in the public transit mapping is, is that our main 
renderer (mapnik) won't cope with the public_transport version 2 scheme 
for some (seemingly simple) technical reason, i.e. it won't name 
platforms that are not a node tagged with highway=bus_stop.


Tijmen/IIVQ

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag monumental railcars

[Tijmen Stam]

On 10-05-17 13:15, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 10 May 2017 at 10:24, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:


I believe in British English it should be "waggon".


"Waggon was preferred in British English until a century ago and it
still appears occasionally, but it is fast becoming archaic. In this
century, the shorter one is preferred in all main varieties of
English."

http://grammarist.com/spelling/wagon-waggon/




I think I'm setting for historic=railway_car
Which is the name Wikipedia uses for one item of railway rolling stock 
which is not a locomotive (be it a freight or passenger car

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_car

Railcar, in the UK rail parlance, means a single-car powered passenger 
car with driver stands (usually) at both ends.


I took the liberty of creating a wiki page (basically copied 
historic:locomotive): 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Drailway_car


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Re: [Tagging] rail routes: how are platforms and stops associated (rail question 2)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2017, at 23:25, Tijmen Stam  wrote:
> 
> On some buses however, the GPS reader is over the driver, while at others, 
> it's at the rear end. Something that can make a difference of 25 metres on 
> our long double-bendy buses



you should take this into account when calculating the median ;-)

cheers,
Martin 
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