Re: [Tagging] 'Unknown' value.

[marc marc]

Hello,

Le 03. 02. 18 à 19:18, Dave F a écrit :
> I recently seen a variety of keys being given the value of 'unknown'.
> I'm struggling to see its purpose. It confirms nothing & adds no value 
> to the database. Am I missing something?

it's hard to explain without an example.

from my personal experience with the ongoing cleaning of 
toilets:wheelchair et wheelchair, there were 3 reasons :
- a bug in an editor that incorrectly filled in with a "default"
as value when the user did not fill in a value.
- an (old) import (without a doc or missing link to the doc)
that assigned default values (also I guess it happened when he
didn't have any data)
- when an editor proposes a few keys, somes mappers do not know what
to fill in and put "unknown" thinking that it is mandatory to fill
in all the fields to pass validate.

This obviously has no interest in any of the 3 situations (the bug of 
the first one has been fixed, the 2nd will soon be cleanup, the 3rd one 
is more complicated because it is necessary to "train" new users and/or 
improve the ergonomics of editors this can be seen for example with 
the access key where you can even see "no ski" on roads
of a city a thousand km away from the ski resorts.

if you see a recent case, it is interesting to find the cause
to inform the mapper and/or improve the ergonomics of the editor used.

Regards,
Marc
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for an American Wild & Scenic river

[Dave Swarthout]

Thanks for the replies. I'm away from home watching a tennis tournament so
pardon me for not replying promptly. I received an answer in the Help Forum
that was similar to Brad's reply here about tagging the river corridor with
protect_class=5, etc., and that sounds good but I don't have any way short
of digging into multiple U.S. government websites to determine the actual
boundaries of those corridors and frankly don't want to do it. I've
struggled with them before and prefer to leave that sort of research to
people with more patience than me.

Could one legitimately apply the protect_class, protection_title to ways
rather than just areas?

Several people used the word designation or designated in their replies
too. The Wiki would, at first glance, tend to eliminate the use of that tag
for a river because it is aimed squarely at transportation or modes of
transportation:

"The *designated* value, when used with a mode of transport key, indicates
that a route has been specially designated (typically by a government) for
use by a particular mode (or modes) of transport. Typically it is used on
ways legally dedicated to specific modes of travel by a law or by the rules
of traffic."

Yet, "Wild and Scenic" is a designation in its own right. And one might
also conclude, correctly or not, that by having this special designation,
modes of transport along such rivers are indeed restricted. In addition,
the paragraph from the Wiki above defines *designated* when used as a *value.
*Mappers have used *designated* as a *key* too (see Taginfo
) even if some of
those uses not might be strictly correct. I think were I to suggest using a
tag of, for example, designated=wild_and_scenic it would run into
opposition. Still, it seems like a useful point to explore.

I have used scenic=yes on highways so designated (there's that word again)
but not rivers, however, I see no reason it couldn't be used on them as
well.

Again, thanks.

Dave


On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Matej Lieskovský  wrote:

> Brad is right: Wild, Scenic and Recreational rivers are already
> defined as protect_class=5. Use the protection_title tag to specify
> the exact type of protection.
> Cheers,
> Matej
>
> On 3 February 2018 at 06:56, Brad Neuhauser 
> wrote:
> > "Wild and Scenic River" is specifically mentioned on the wiki as
> > boundary=protected_area, protect_class=5. Look at the table for
> > nature-protected areas, and scroll down to the US section. Cheers, Brad
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Kevin Kenny <
> kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:54 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick <
> graemefi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 3 February 2018 at 12:00, Kevin Kenny 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Dave Swarthout <
> daveswarth...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
> >
> > I asked this question last week of the OSM Help community:
> >
> > I'm looking for tagging that will indicate that a particular river in
> > the United States is a "Wild and Scenic River" as defined by the
> Wild &
> > Scenic Rivers Act. I have searched with Overpass for waterway=* that
> also
> > has a scenic=yes tag but it turned up no results. Can anyone provide
> some
> > guidance and/or examples?
> >
>  Like you, I know of the Wild, Scenic and Recreational Rivers
>  designations.
>  Like you, I lack a good way to tag them.
>  If nobody else has come up with anything - and do let's also ask on
>  talk-us,
>  since this is a peculiarly American designation - then let's invent
>  something
>  and Wikify it.
> 
> >>> Without knowing the details of just what a "Wild Scenic" river is,
> could
> >>> you use the nature=conservation tag in conjunction with waterway=?
> >>
> >>
> >> Wild and Scenic Rivers are linear protected areas designated by statute
> in
> >> the US.  https://www.rivers.gov/
> >>
> >> Designating the waterway itself is a good start, but Wild and Scenic
> >> Rivers (also Recreational Rivers in New York State) generally also have
> >> associated corridors that should have some sort of
> boundary=protected_area
> >> (and we can debate what protect_class might be appropriate) associated
> with
> >> them.
> >>
> >> I'm aware of several rivers that are so designated that I've visited,
> but
> >> I've not done the necessary research to figure out how to represent
> them and
> >> their corridors. The Federal program has downloadable Public Domain
> data on
> >> its web site that I have not examined.
> >>
> >> My home state of New York actually has very few of them that are
> Federally
> >> designated - the Delaware, on the Pennsylvania line. This is because the
> >> State anticipated the Federal government and came up with its own
> >> designations http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/32739.html and came 

Re: [Tagging] 'Unknown' value.

[Nelson A. de Oliveira]

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Dave F  wrote:
> I recently seen a variety of keys being given the value of 'unknown'.
> I'm struggling to see its purpose. It confirms nothing & adds no value to
> the database. Am I missing something?

You are right.

It's interesting if you take a look at some values.

maxspeed=unknown basically happens only in the Netherlands, from the
same author (it seems) who is mapping/importing railway data.

owner=UNKNOWN in California, USA, from an old buildings import

place=unknown in Africa (due to this import
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Liberia_UNMIL_Places#Tagging_Plans)

bench=unknown are mostly in Italy (from some possible bus stops/routes import)

foot=unknown in England
naptan:Landmark=Unknown also in England (both foot and naptan:Landmark
look that are old data)

wheelchair=unknown mostly in Iraq and Saudi Arabia (also from older imports)

By taking a quick look at them, most seem to be from imports, created
by the same mappers or old data.

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] 'Unknown' value.

[Matej Lieskovský]

(Without digging through the database) I suspect that might be caused
by the idea of default values... Imagine drawing a road. If you don't
tag it as 'oneway', it is assumed not to be a 'oneway'. If you
honestly don't know, you need to tag it with something like 'unknown'.
But that's just my guess - why not contact the author?

Matej

On 3 February 2018 at 19:18, Dave F  wrote:
> Hi
> I recently seen a variety of keys being given the value of 'unknown'.
> I'm struggling to see its purpose. It confirms nothing & adds no value to
> the database. Am I missing something?
>
> DaveF
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] 'Unknown' value.

[Dave F]

Hi
I recently seen a variety of keys being given the value of 'unknown'.
I'm struggling to see its purpose. It confirms nothing & adds no value 
to the database. Am I missing something?


DaveF

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] 'Unknown' value.

[Dave F]

Hi
I recently seen a variety of keys being given the value of 'unknown'.
I'm struggling to see its purpose. It confirms nothing & adds no value 
to the database. Am I missing something?


DaveF

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] How to tag combined foot-cycle lane

[Volker Schmidt]

How to tag a combined foot and cycle lane on one side of the street?
See:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uvWA5aKAsGo9-etO1KyGIhzcZlGyFqHh/view?usp=sharing

Same question for a segregated fo a segregated foot-cycle lane with bicycle
onw-way on one side of a oneway road in the opposite direction.
See:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Oneway_road_
opposite_segregated_foot_cycle_lane_left.svg

This could be done with the Lanes tagging scheme, I suppose, but I would
like to avoid that level of complication
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for an American Wild & Scenic river

[Matej Lieskovský]

Brad is right: Wild, Scenic and Recreational rivers are already
defined as protect_class=5. Use the protection_title tag to specify
the exact type of protection.
Cheers,
Matej

On 3 February 2018 at 06:56, Brad Neuhauser  wrote:
> "Wild and Scenic River" is specifically mentioned on the wiki as
> boundary=protected_area, protect_class=5. Look at the table for
> nature-protected areas, and scroll down to the US section. Cheers, Brad
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:47 PM, Kevin Kenny 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:54 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 3 February 2018 at 12:00, Kevin Kenny 
>>> wrote:

 On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Dave Swarthout 
 wrote:
>
> I asked this question last week of the OSM Help community:
>
> I'm looking for tagging that will indicate that a particular river in
> the United States is a "Wild and Scenic River" as defined by the Wild &
> Scenic Rivers Act. I have searched with Overpass for waterway=* that also
> has a scenic=yes tag but it turned up no results. Can anyone provide some
> guidance and/or examples?
>
 Like you, I know of the Wild, Scenic and Recreational Rivers
 designations.
 Like you, I lack a good way to tag them.
 If nobody else has come up with anything - and do let's also ask on
 talk-us,
 since this is a peculiarly American designation - then let's invent
 something
 and Wikify it.

>>> Without knowing the details of just what a "Wild Scenic" river is, could
>>> you use the nature=conservation tag in conjunction with waterway=?
>>
>>
>> Wild and Scenic Rivers are linear protected areas designated by statute in
>> the US.  https://www.rivers.gov/
>>
>> Designating the waterway itself is a good start, but Wild and Scenic
>> Rivers (also Recreational Rivers in New York State) generally also have
>> associated corridors that should have some sort of boundary=protected_area
>> (and we can debate what protect_class might be appropriate) associated with
>> them.
>>
>> I'm aware of several rivers that are so designated that I've visited, but
>> I've not done the necessary research to figure out how to represent them and
>> their corridors. The Federal program has downloadable Public Domain data on
>> its web site that I have not examined.
>>
>> My home state of New York actually has very few of them that are Federally
>> designated - the Delaware, on the Pennsylvania line. This is because the
>> State anticipated the Federal government and came up with its own
>> designations http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/32739.html and came up with its
>> own program to administer them http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/6033.html.
>>
>> The Federal program is not universally loved:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/66934423@N00/10605220
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for an American Wild & Scenic river

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/02/2018 02:00, Kevin Kenny wrote:
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:



I'm looking for tagging that will indicate that a particular river
in the United States is a "Wild and Scenic River" as defined by
the Wild & Scenic Rivers Act.




this is a peculiarly American designation


There's always the designation tag: 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:designation


--
Steve


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging