Re: [Tagging] wayside shrine tag definition page

[John Willis]

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> +1 to require „enshrining“ for a shrine.

For some context, here are 4 pictures. 

https://m.imgur.com/a/cyFFn

The first two is a remote Shinto shrine (building=shrine) located on a hilltop. 

It is a building the size of a garage. 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/557838211

The third is a small wayside shrine for a natural spring, visible as white 
bubbles on the left. A much larger temple (?) Is 30m away. 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3608984826

The last one is a mystery to me. There are often carved tablets or writing 
carved into the stone near certian natural features. These are on enoshima 
island near the cliffs and tidal flats, with a view of Mt Fuji. I see these 
kind of carvings and tablets - but I have no idea of their origin or purpose. 

They are below this building. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/191675374

Similar to this carving in Kyoto in a temple complex 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/javbw/11083806845/

Or this tablet in a rural mountain forest. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/javbw/11091117975/

They might all have different meanings and completely different form one 
another - but represent the kind of "wayside objects" I see that are in the 
smaller side. 


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Re: [Tagging] wayside shrine tag definition page

[John Willis]

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 10:53 PM, tomoya muramoto  
> wrote:
> 
> I added some photo example to wiki, 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dwayside_shrine

Thanks for telling us about things going on in the Japanese discussions and 
adding examples. Please correct any of my statements if I get something wrong. 

I was surprised to find man_made=torii when I was napping near Mt Haruna. I 
assume there are changes to the Japanese tagging that happen that I don't 
notice. 

ありがとう!

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Re: [Tagging] wayside shrine tag definition page

[John Willis]

Javbw

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 5:44 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> This seems to imply that wayside_cross is a subclass of wayside shrine (all 
> instances of crosses are also shrines)?


I think it is really difficult to tease apart "memorial" from a lot of these 
religious objects. I imagine the wayside cross and shrine in many cultures are 
put there to memorialize someone who died or some event that occured. I imagine 
(without fully understanding) that this is true in Japan for some of them. 
Others, particularly the small ones near some natural feature (tiny waterfall, 
small hill) are for that feature, not as a memorial to someone - they are for 
the natural spirit of of that feature. 

There is also so much decorative Christian iconography in some places that it 
may be hard. I can see the second example (statue in the wall) as possibly 
being a wayside something. 

Wayside crosses are usually very personal to the person that set them (as I 
understand them being for someone who died), similar to the more secular 
memorial plaque, whereas man_made=cross or =torii are usually very large 
symbols for symbolism's sake, or a part of a landuse=religious complex. 

But figuring out what is a wayside shrine, a memorial, or just some painting on 
a wall could be really hard for someone not very familiar with some of the edge 
cases. 

Javbw. 
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Re: [Tagging] wayside shrine tag definition page

[tomoya muramoto]

I added some photo example to wiki,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dwayside_shrine

Japanese community has agreed to use historic=wayside_shrine to these
objects;
* Shinto small shrine, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokora
* Jizo, carved statue of a famous buddhist,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%E1%B9%A3itigarbha
Many Japanese pray to these objects, so we decided to use the same tag.

See discussion (ja):
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ja/2014-June/008339.html
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed features - RFC 2 - Pressurized waterways

[François Lacombe]

Hi

2018-02-15 3:47 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> Are all of these these proposed waterway=pressurised in pipes?
>

No, there are 3 big categories : in pipeline, in tunnel, in caves.


>
> You can gather I find the proposal confusing...
>
> Talk of canals  and .. they are not part of this?
>

I know it's a bit technical, that's why I made charts to illustrate the
document
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Waterway_manmade_structures.png

Canals are part of this : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hydropower_water_supplies#Overground_canals

2018-02-15 9:46 GMT+01:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>for the pipeline there are tags, so we need them for waterways through
cavities?
Yes, ideally the same than on pipelines.

> waterway=stream/river + tunnel=siphon for natural pressurized waterways
in a siphon. You could add pressurized=*, but I'd see this implied by the
term siphon
> waterway=river tunnel=pipe pressurized=yes for man made pressurized
passages  (maybe the pipe also already implies pressurized).
Related to this discussion : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Hydropower_water_
supplies#Bad_use_of_waterway_key
We should not mix free flow and pipe flow waterways, and
waterway=stream/river are currently used on open air free flow features.

Issue with tunnel=pipe is that it looks like merging tunnel and pipeline
which are set incompatible unless the pipeline is inside a proper tunnel.

I made this table to summarize how existing values and proposed pressurised
organize in waterway key
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hydropower_water_supplies#Pressurised_waterway_.28pipe_flow_only.29
As to get a complete waterway topology, the table have to be completely
filled.

We can differentiate natural and man made pipe flow values, currently
pressurised is proposed for both.

All the best

François
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed features - RFC 2 - Pressurized waterways

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 14. Feb 2018, at 22:44, marc marc  wrote:
>
> a pressurized waterways can be a pipeline, a natural cavity in the rock
> or an artificial cavity.


for the pipeline there are tags, so we need them for waterways through cavities?

waterway=stream/river + tunnel=siphon for natural pressurized
waterways in a siphon. You could add pressurized=*, but I'd see this
implied by the term siphon

waterway=river tunnel=pipe pressurized=yes for man made pressurized
passages  (maybe the pipe also already implies pressurized).

Cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] wayside shrine tag definition page

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-02-15 4:23 GMT+01:00 John Willis :

>
> This column seems to be like that - a religious object dedicated to a
> worshipped spirit right there, nearby, or a place for locals to leave small
> offerings to the dedicated spirit/dieity/god. Can be a small case for
> holding very small objects or accepting donations as well.




This seems to imply that wayside_cross is a subclass of wayside shrine (all
instances of crosses are also shrines)?

What about this:
http://view.stern.de/de/picture/2339744/hegner-maria-madonna-wandgemaelde-maria-licht-1920.jpg
similar to this:
http://c8.alamy.com/compde/ddybhx/nische-mit-einer-statue-der-maria-und-jesuskind-garmisch-partenkirchen-bayern-ddybhx.jpg

Although the former, like the cross or the column, do not "enshrine"
anything (you mentioned enshrining and I would agree it is a good criterion
for shrines).

Cheers,
Martin
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