Re: [Tagging] Attendant on amenity=fuel
There is also an automated key mentioned on the wiki. This applies mostly to self_service I would guess, and I assumed automated=yes indicates that you can pay at the pump. I didn’t mention the following because taginfo showed that it’s not used and there pretty surely is no software support for them yet, but I agree with marc that it would make sense to extend the allowed values from yes/no. I think two additional values would make sense: only (=yes, and only this) and optional (=yes, but alternatives exist). They are basically both more specific versions of “yes”. If we are not going to define completely new keys, I would suggest keeping both self_service and full_service, but with the extended values you can get away with only defining one of the two. e.g. self_service=optional (implies full_service=optional) full_service=only (implies self_service=no) if we add the automated key and the extend value, we get: automated=no (have to interact with a human to pay) automated=yes (you can pay directly at the pump, it’s unknown if it’s alternatively possible to interact with a human to pay) automated=only (you have to pay at the pump, no alternative exists. e.g. this would apply to the Costco petrol station near me) automated=optional (you can pay at the pump, but it’s also possible to interact with a human to pay) I do realize that the things you can express with this combination of self_service, full_service, and automated keys is somewhat different from the 6 variants presented by Paul below, but I think it’s the best that can be done when using the existing keys and a (hopefully somewhat logical) extension of the values. Also, all 3 keys should allow the use of :conditional If the possibilities expressed by these 3 keys is considered insufficient, then we’ll probably have to define some completely new key. Cheers, Thorsten From: Paul Johnson Sent: Sunday, 1 April 2018 04:06 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] Attendant on amenity=fuel On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 7:01 AM, Andy Mabbett mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> > wrote: On 29 March 2018 at 11:58, Javier Sánchez Portero mailto:javiers...@gmail.com> > wrote: > I'm looking for a key to denote if you have > to refuel by your self or not. I meant if the station operates on self > service mode. There are (at least) three modes: * Attendant service * Self service, pay at kiosk * Self service, pay at pump I'd go with more. * Self service, pay at kiosk * Self service, pay at pump * Minimum service, pay at pump (default in Oregon and New Jersey) * Minimum service, pay in store (basically just Arco in Oregon) * Full service, pay at pump (uncommon) * Full service, pay at kiosk (is this even a thing?) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Attendant on amenity=fuel
On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 7:01 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote: > On 29 March 2018 at 11:58, Javier Sánchez Portero > wrote: > > > I'm looking for a key to denote if you have > > to refuel by your self or not. I meant if the station operates on self > > service mode. > > There are (at least) three modes: > > * Attendant service > * Self service, pay at kiosk > * Self service, pay at pump > I'd go with more. * Self service, pay at kiosk * Self service, pay at pump * Minimum service, pay at pump (default in Oregon and New Jersey) * Minimum service, pay in store (basically just Arco in Oregon) * Full service, pay at pump (uncommon) * Full service, pay at kiosk (is this even a thing?) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Carpet hangers
And on similar line: I have seen several public carpet washing places in Finland, like this one: [1], located here: [2], but not on the map. [1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/voschix/41139585421/in/dateposted-friend/ [2] https://osm.org/go/01xhtNkQw-?m=&relation=2528474 Happy Easter On 31 March 2018 at 18:02, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: > You may don't know about this, but in central and eastern--Europe > countries there are outdoor carpet hangers for cleaning them before > holidays. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_hanger > > They usually look like this: > > https://pareulicdalej.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/pc080668.jpg > > I see that we don't have tag for this feature. Any ideas? > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Carpet hangers
It seems that amenity=beater is the most popular tagging (at least it was when I was checking it). On Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 18:12 Tomasz Wójcik, wrote: > You may don't know about this, but in central and eastern--Europe > countries there are outdoor carpet hangers for cleaning them before > holidays. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_hanger > > They usually look like this: > > https://pareulicdalej.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/pc080668.jpg > > I see that we don't have tag for this feature. Any ideas? > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Carpet hangers
You may don't know about this, but in central and eastern--Europe countries there are outdoor carpet hangers for cleaning them before holidays. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_hanger They usually look like this: https://pareulicdalej.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/pc080668.jpg I see that we don't have tag for this feature. Any ideas? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Historic building usage
On 29.03.2018 15:38, Dave F wrote: > No. The building tag is for current usage. No, building tag is for the current building type church used as warehouse is still a church building (though no longer amenity=place_of_worship) See any documentation about how building tag is used ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms
One point that hasn't been discussed (and isn't in the subject line) is that part of Ilya's proposal is to also drop stations. I would move in the opposite direction and expand the role of stations. Here's why. In many (many) cases, GTFS data from bus operators includes a single StopPoint value for what are in fact multiple stopping points (platforms) within a station. It would greatly simplify matters if the *station* itself could be considered the platform. I would suggest this could be accomplished by including the station (node/way/area) in the route relation with the role "station" (or, as appropriate, station_entry_only or station_exit_only). Not sure what usefulness, if any, this would have for rail routes. On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Jo wrote: > highway=platform and railway=platform on a WAY or an AREA are perfectly > fine tags for such platforms, where they exist. Until about a year ago I > was also adding public_transport=platform to these ways, but as it creates > confusion with the platform NODES, which as far as I am concerned represent > the bus and tram stops, I stopped doing that. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/PT_ > Assistant/Mapping_Public_Transport_with_JOSM > > Jo > > 2018-03-31 9:23 GMT+02:00 Selfish Seahorse : > >> Is public_transport=platform now about the structure or the function? >> >> If it is about the function, then we need a separate tag for the >> platform structure. >> >> If it is about the structure, then we should decide to either map the >> sidewalk or public_transport=platform (depending on how we define a >> platform). Otherwise, we say that there are two physical structures, >> which is wrong. >> >> On 30 March 2018 at 19:41, "Christian Müller" wrote: >> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. März 2018 um 11:06 Uhr >> >> Von: "Selfish Seahorse" >> >> An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" < >> tagging@openstreetmap.org> >> >> Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms >> >> >> >> I wouldn't call a sidewalk a platform, especially because the waiting >> >> area on the sidewalk often isn't clearly delimited. Furthermore, >> >> double tagging doesn't work if the sidewalk is called 'X Road' and the >> >> bus stop 'Y Square'. >> >> >> > >> > If a sidewalk _functions_ as a platform, than you can indeed call that >> > part of the sidewalk a platform, depending on which role of the area >> > you are currently talking about. This is time-dependent: >> > >> > If lots of people are standing and waiting on that sidewalk for a >> > vehicle to arrive, it will be easier for you to see why this is (also) >> > a platform, than e.g. at night time without a PT service serving the >> > halt. >> > >> > A thing as simple as a box may be used as a table or chair. This is >> > the same thing here. You have a physical structure that is so simple >> > that it may function as a platform or a sidewalk, depending on current >> > use. >> > >> > >> > Greetings >> > cmuelle8 >> > >> > ___ >> > Tagging mailing list >> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms
I independently reached a conclusion similar to Jo's. No need for a
separate tag; the difference is made clear when you look at whether it's a
node, way or area. And there are lots of optional tags to indicate
structural elements like benches, shelters, tactile pavement, etc.
I don't usually go beyond platform nodes, but if others have tagged
wait-point ways/areas as public_transport=platform (or highway=platform, or
even highway=pedestrian), I let them be.
The conclusion I'm reaching (for bus routes, anyhow) is that only platform
nodes should be included in the relations (along with the ways that
comprise the routes). In particular, platforms that are ways or areas
should not be included in the relations, nor should stop positions. (All of
these could be included in stop area relations.)
This implies the following changes to v2:
1) every platform node should have mandatory {mode}=yes tag(s)
2) stop_positions should be optional on the map and should not be included
in the route relations
I'm inclined to agree with the wiki that the v1 tags on nodes should remain
(including the two million highway=bus_stop tags).
I don't really see a big advantage in changing the value of the v2 tag from
public_transport=platform to something like public_transport=wait_area (and
there are about one million public_transport=platform tags at the moment).
John
On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Jo wrote:
> highway=platform and railway=platform on a WAY or an AREA are perfectly
> fine tags for such platforms, where they exist. Until about a year ago I
> was also adding public_transport=platform to these ways, but as it creates
> confusion with the platform NODES, which as far as I am concerned represent
> the bus and tram stops, I stopped doing that.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/PT_
> Assistant/Mapping_Public_Transport_with_JOSM
>
> Jo
>
> 2018-03-31 9:23 GMT+02:00 Selfish Seahorse :
>
>> Is public_transport=platform now about the structure or the function?
>>
>> If it is about the function, then we need a separate tag for the
>> platform structure.
>>
>> If it is about the structure, then we should decide to either map the
>> sidewalk or public_transport=platform (depending on how we define a
>> platform). Otherwise, we say that there are two physical structures,
>> which is wrong.
>>
>> On 30 March 2018 at 19:41, "Christian Müller" wrote:
>> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. März 2018 um 11:06 Uhr
>> >> Von: "Selfish Seahorse"
>> >> An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <
>> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
>> >> Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms
>> >>
>> >> I wouldn't call a sidewalk a platform, especially because the waiting
>> >> area on the sidewalk often isn't clearly delimited. Furthermore,
>> >> double tagging doesn't work if the sidewalk is called 'X Road' and the
>> >> bus stop 'Y Square'.
>> >>
>> >
>> > If a sidewalk _functions_ as a platform, than you can indeed call that
>> > part of the sidewalk a platform, depending on which role of the area
>> > you are currently talking about. This is time-dependent:
>> >
>> > If lots of people are standing and waiting on that sidewalk for a
>> > vehicle to arrive, it will be easier for you to see why this is (also)
>> > a platform, than e.g. at night time without a PT service serving the
>> > halt.
>> >
>> > A thing as simple as a box may be used as a table or chair. This is
>> > the same thing here. You have a physical structure that is so simple
>> > that it may function as a platform or a sidewalk, depending on current
>> > use.
>> >
>> >
>> > Greetings
>> > cmuelle8
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Tagging mailing list
>> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Attendant on amenity=fuel
On 29 March 2018 at 11:58, Javier Sánchez Portero wrote: > I'm looking for a key to denote if you have > to refuel by your self or not. I meant if the station operates on self > service mode. There are (at least) three modes: * Attendant service * Self service, pay at kiosk * Self service, pay at pump -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Attendant on amenity=fuel
could this be simplified with yes/no/only ? > 2018-03-30 11:37 GMT+01:00 : > Only serviced by attendant: > self_service=no > full_service=yes self_service=no > Self service always available, attended only during the day: > self_service=yes > full_service=no > full_service:conditional=yes @ 06:00-18:00 self_service=yes self_service:conditional=only @ 18:00-06:00 > Self service only available at night when no attendant is present: > self_service=yes > full_service:conditional=no @ 06:00-18:00 > full_service=no > full_service:conditional=yes @ 06:00-18:00 self_service=yes self_service:conditional=no @ 06:00-18:00 this would avoid to parse 2 key which are only 2 values defining the service ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Attendant on amenity=fuel
2018-03-30 11:37 GMT+01:00 : > Based on the information provided here: > > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfuel#Service > > > > and what was stated in previous posts on the mailing list, I would guess > that the correct tags would be: > > > > Only serviced by attendant: > > > > self_service=no > > full_service=yes > > > > Self service always available, attended only during the day: > > > > self_service=yes > > full_service=no > > full_service:conditional=yes @ 06:00-18:00 > > > > (following the recommendation in the wiki to specify the default value > explicitly when it’s not obvious) > > > > Self service only available at night when no attendant is present: > > > > self_service=yes > > full_service:conditional=no @ 06:00-18:00 > > full_service=no > > full_service:conditional=yes @ 06:00-18:00 > > > > > > The expectation for the default values of self_serivce and full_service > will probably vary greatly from location to location, so it’s probably best > to always explicitly specify both to take the guessing out of it. > > > > > > > Hello. Good abstract. I have added this to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfuel ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms
highway=platform and railway=platform on a WAY or an AREA are perfectly fine tags for such platforms, where they exist. Until about a year ago I was also adding public_transport=platform to these ways, but as it creates confusion with the platform NODES, which as far as I am concerned represent the bus and tram stops, I stopped doing that. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/PT_Assistant/Mapping_Public_Transport_with_JOSM Jo 2018-03-31 9:23 GMT+02:00 Selfish Seahorse : > Is public_transport=platform now about the structure or the function? > > If it is about the function, then we need a separate tag for the > platform structure. > > If it is about the structure, then we should decide to either map the > sidewalk or public_transport=platform (depending on how we define a > platform). Otherwise, we say that there are two physical structures, > which is wrong. > > On 30 March 2018 at 19:41, "Christian Müller" wrote: > >> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. März 2018 um 11:06 Uhr > >> Von: "Selfish Seahorse" > >> An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" < > tagging@openstreetmap.org> > >> Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms > >> > >> I wouldn't call a sidewalk a platform, especially because the waiting > >> area on the sidewalk often isn't clearly delimited. Furthermore, > >> double tagging doesn't work if the sidewalk is called 'X Road' and the > >> bus stop 'Y Square'. > >> > > > > If a sidewalk _functions_ as a platform, than you can indeed call that > > part of the sidewalk a platform, depending on which role of the area > > you are currently talking about. This is time-dependent: > > > > If lots of people are standing and waiting on that sidewalk for a > > vehicle to arrive, it will be easier for you to see why this is (also) > > a platform, than e.g. at night time without a PT service serving the > > halt. > > > > A thing as simple as a box may be used as a table or chair. This is > > the same thing here. You have a physical structure that is so simple > > that it may function as a platform or a sidewalk, depending on current > > use. > > > > > > Greetings > > cmuelle8 > > > > ___ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms
Is public_transport=platform now about the structure or the function? If it is about the function, then we need a separate tag for the platform structure. If it is about the structure, then we should decide to either map the sidewalk or public_transport=platform (depending on how we define a platform). Otherwise, we say that there are two physical structures, which is wrong. On 30 March 2018 at 19:41, "Christian Müller" wrote: >> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. März 2018 um 11:06 Uhr >> Von: "Selfish Seahorse" >> An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" >> Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Still RFC — Drop stop positions and platforms >> >> I wouldn't call a sidewalk a platform, especially because the waiting >> area on the sidewalk often isn't clearly delimited. Furthermore, >> double tagging doesn't work if the sidewalk is called 'X Road' and the >> bus stop 'Y Square'. >> > > If a sidewalk _functions_ as a platform, than you can indeed call that > part of the sidewalk a platform, depending on which role of the area > you are currently talking about. This is time-dependent: > > If lots of people are standing and waiting on that sidewalk for a > vehicle to arrive, it will be easier for you to see why this is (also) > a platform, than e.g. at night time without a PT service serving the > halt. > > A thing as simple as a box may be used as a table or chair. This is > the same thing here. You have a physical structure that is so simple > that it may function as a platform or a sidewalk, depending on current > use. > > > Greetings > cmuelle8 > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
