Re: [Tagging] free_standing_emergency_department, amenity or clinic ?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

On 4/30/19, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> 29 Apr 2019, 23:11 by pla16...@gmail.com:
>
>> Since healthcare=* is now rendered by standard carto, there's no reason to
>> include amenity=*.
>>
> Please, avoid basing tagging decision on one specific renderer.
>

(Also, that information is no longer correct:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3731
Due to:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3639
Sorry.)

While I'm in the healthcare field, I hadn't heard of these satellite
EDs (Emergency Departments) before.

Are these free-standing ED's more like Urgent Care clinics, or do they
have the full services that you would get at a normal hospital ED: 24
hour Emergency Medicine specialist physicians on-site, specialized ED
nurses, a complete radiology facility (CT Scan or MRI, Ultrasound and
X-rays), 24-hour complete laboratory services, and access to
consultations with specialists like General Surgeons and Psychiatrists
to help decide if a patient needs to be admitted, etc?

If they lack these features, especially the 24 hr ED specialists and
24hr radiology and laboratory services, they might just be a new way
to advertise a big Urgent Care clinic.

But if they are basically the same as an ED at a hospital, without the
inpatient and surgery services, then I could see creating an entirely
new tag, since amenity=hospital implies inpatient services and an
amenity=clinic does not usually provide full 24hr emergency medical
services.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

[bkil]

I recommend that we rename the proposal to the following:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/changing_table

Then we can create a redirect from the old URL so that all links mentioned
in this thread and elsewhere will work indefinitely. Please verify that
both the main page and the talk page redirects.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:50 PM Valor Naram  wrote:

> > and that’s why the page is called “baby changing table”?
>
> Because someone noted that there exist changing tables for adults. But
> they're not widespread nor specified enough. No one has the knowleadge to
> implement it in OSM. But we didn't go further so we agreed on
> "changing_table" without the "baby" prefix.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table
> From: Martin Koppenhoefer
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 29. Apr 2019, at 14:24, Valor Naram wrote:
> >
> > where I explain there's no doubt of using "changing table" because it
> means what it means without confusion.
>
>
> and that’s why the page is called “baby changing table”?
>
> Cheers, Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Fwd: [Talk-us] Parks in the USA, leisure=park, park:type

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Apr 2019, at 20:36, Kevin Kenny  wrote:
> 
> The 'or public garden' implies that the area *may* be human sculpted,
> but there is no separate definition to encompass 'regional park'.
> There is a separate entry for 'national park', and under 'park' there
> are entries to cover the 'park' of a country house, a 'wildlife park',
> 'park' as another word for 'playground', 'park' as an informal word
> for 'football pitch' (borrowed from the American usage) and the
> Americanism 'sports park' - and then a second sense of any area
> devoted to a specific purpose ('industrial park', 'office park'), plus
> a third designating the 'park' position of the gear selector on an
> automatic transmission.


there is also car park, water park, theme park, business park,  and likely 
more. Most of these should not get the leisure=park tag, they are different 
concepts. 

Cheers, Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] free_standing_emergency_department, amenity or clinic ?

[Mateusz Konieczny]

29 Apr 2019, 23:11 by pla16...@gmail.com:

> Since healthcare=* is now rendered by standard carto, there's no reason to 
> include amenity=*.
>
Please, avoid basing tagging decision on one specific renderer.
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Re: [Tagging] free_standing_emergency_department, amenity or clinic ?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 at 07:12, Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 21:48, Nita Rae Sanders 
> wrote:
>
> Does this situation dictate a new high-level attribute value (e.g.
>> amenity=free_standing_emergency_department) or is it better addressed
>> via …
>> amenity=clinic, healthcare=clinic,
>> clinic=freestanding_emergency_department tag ?
>>
>
> I would say healthcare=clinic + healthcare:speciality=emergency  would
> work, although some
> may point out that the documentation implies clinics deal with outpatients
> and it's debatable
> if attendees at an A&E can be classed as such.  You could use
> healthcare=yes +
> healthcare:speciality=emergency if you dislike clinic for this usage.  Or
> propose a different
> value for healthcare for this usage.
>

How about a new tag of simply healthcare=emergency, which could be defined
as "Only for patients requiring emergency care"?


> Since healthcare=* is now rendered by standard carto
>

=emergency could also be rendered (yes, another icon!!! :-)), possibly as
A-E /  A/E / A+E, using the existing white/red hospital colours, so you'd
have the cross showing that this is a hospital, & also A-E for the
Emergency Ward.

In the stand-alone situation that the OP proposed, it would then just show
as A-E in this location, without the hospital icon.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] free_standing_emergency_department, amenity or clinic ?

[Paul Allen]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 21:48, Nita Rae Sanders  wrote:

Does this situation dictate a new high-level attribute value (e.g.
> amenity=free_standing_emergency_department) or is it better addressed
> via …
> amenity=clinic, healthcare=clinic,
> clinic=freestanding_emergency_department tag ?
>

We (well, some of us) are trying to move away from over-use of amenity,
which is why
healthcare=* was established.  See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare

I would say healthcare=clinic + healthcare:speciality=emergency  would
work, although some
may point out that the documentation implies clinics deal with outpatients
and it's debatable
if attendees at an A&E can be classed as such.  You could use
healthcare=yes +
healthcare:speciality=emergency if you dislike clinic for this usage.  Or
propose a different
value for healthcare for this usage.

Since healthcare=* is now rendered by standard carto, there's no reason to
include amenity=*.

-- 
Paul
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[Tagging] free_standing_emergency_department, amenity or clinic ?

[Nita Rae Sanders]

This concerns the best way to tag a hospital/healthcare facility that
is known as a 'free standing emergency department. It is also called
an offsite emergency department.

I posted the question in help questions at this link …
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/68977/how-to-tag-a-free-standing-emergency-department

Since posting that question, I have done some research as to the
extent that these facilities exist in the state of Florida:

There are 44 major/primary hospitals in Florida (not including small
rural statutory facilities)

2 have only the on-site emergency department

28 have the on-site emergency department plus one off-site emergency department

12 have the on-site emergency department plus two off-site emergency departments

2 have the on-site emergency department plus three off-site emergency
departments

for a total of 44 on-site emergency departments plus 58 off-site
emergency departments. It appears this is a growing trend in
healthcare to build an off-site emergency department, instead of
building an entire new hospital.

Does this situation dictate a new high-level attribute value (e.g.
amenity=free_standing_emergency_department) or is it better addressed
via …
amenity=clinic, healthcare=clinic,
clinic=freestanding_emergency_department tag ?

Curious what the viewpoints are on this situation.

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[Tagging] Fwd: [Talk-us] Parks in the USA, leisure=park, park:type

[Kevin Kenny]

Using a British dictionary (Living Oxford Dictionary), the first
definition of 'park' is:

1 A large public garden or area of land used for recreation.
‘a walk round the park’
‘a country park’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/park

The 'or public garden' implies that the area *may* be human sculpted,
but there is no separate definition to encompass 'regional park'.
There is a separate entry for 'national park', and under 'park' there
are entries to cover the 'park' of a country house, a 'wildlife park',
'park' as another word for 'playground', 'park' as an informal word
for 'football pitch' (borrowed from the American usage) and the
Americanism 'sports park' - and then a second sense of any area
devoted to a specific purpose ('industrial park', 'office park'), plus
a third designating the 'park' position of the gear selector on an
automatic transmission.

I'm fine with 'leisure=park' being more specific, but we have to be
very clear what we mean because it's more restrictive than even UK
English (to say nothing of CANZUS, where 'park' for the large regional
parks is surely common), and we have to expect mistagging,
particularly in light of the fact that the rest of the
English-speaking world has tagged a lot of parks with the looser
language that used to be on the Wiki.

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[Tagging] Handicap Parking Access Aisles

[Clifford Snow]

I'd like to add a new tag to highway=footway, footway=access_aisle. An
access aisle [1] is the space allowed in parking lots for vans. (Vans that
are equipped with a wheelchair ramp.)

According to Wikipedia [2] and the Americans with Disabilities Act
Handbook, access aisles "shall be part of an accessible route to the
building for facility entrance." I've seen these in other countries as well
as the US.

Thoughts?


[1] https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/F2mAATCQ54SzfcT
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disabled_parking_permit
-- 
@osm_washington
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

[Valor Naram]

> and that’s why the page is called “baby changing table”?Because someone noted that there exist changing tables for adults. But they're not widespread nor specified enough. No one has the knowleadge to implement it in OSM. But we didn't go further so we agreed on "changing_table" without the "baby" prefix. Original Message Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing tableFrom: Martin Koppenhoefer To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" CC: sent from a phone> On 29. Apr 2019, at 14:24, Valor Naram  wrote:> > where I explain there's no doubt of using "changing table" because it means what it means without confusion.and that’s why the page is called “baby changing table”?Cheers, Martin ___Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging___
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 29. Apr 2019, at 14:24, Valor Naram  wrote:
> 
> where I explain there's no doubt of using "changing table" because it means 
> what it means without confusion.


and that’s why the page is called “baby changing table”?

Cheers, Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing table

[Valor Naram]

I will put an end to the discussion of the chosen name and will just link to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/baby_changing_tables#Statement_from_the_author where I explain there's no doubt of using "changing table" because it means what it means without confusion. Original Message Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Baby changing tableFrom: Paul Allen To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" CC: On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 09:20, bkil  wrote:
Our word for changing_table=* is something like "diaper changer
[place]" ("pelenkázó") or more like "a place where you change
diapers", the word itself weakly implicates a separate room, although
this should not cause confusion. Interestingly, the dictionary
definition suggests a translation "pelenkáz" = "changing the baby",
but the term itself does not narrow this down to babies and it is
applicable to all age groups.

Do you know a language where this could cause an issue for real?Magyar might be one.  :)  I have been led to believe that in Magyar the term for this facilityloosely translates as "diaper changer [place]."  I do not know what percentage ofHungarian mappers would infer, without looking it up, that "changing table" meant"diaper changer [place]."I would guess that any language that refers to such facilities by including that language's wordsfor "baby," "diaper," or "napkin" might have that problem.  In English, through common usage,we just use "changing table" but 20 years ago (when it wasn't common usage) I would have wondered what it meant and what was being changed (I still feel a little uneasy with it).-- Paul
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