date:20200413

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 23:31, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

It would be a good idea if the tag/s developed here could be used with
> other things that have 'departments' such as universities.
>
> Hence my suggestion of 'department', as a key it is used some 799 times ..
>
> You'd have great difficulty persuading iD to support it.  The problem is
that different
types of organization (hospitals, universities, etc.) have different types
of
departments.  This would lead to a page documenting department=* values
being split across two or more tables for humans to understand more easily.
But iD tends to populate its drop-downs from wikidata or wiki pages, meaning
that you'd have a big drop-down filled with every type of department,
irrespective of the type of organization.  That makes it hard to use, and
is why iD will almost certainly refuse to support it.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On 13/4/20 9:28 pm, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

Ok, I do agree that "healthcare=department" or perhaps
"healthcare=hospital_department" would make sense for an inpatient
department within a larger hospital, since that is certainly not an
amenity=clinic (which are outpatient facilities).

It would not be a good idea to use a totally new key like
"department=" on a feature like this which could be mapped as an area,
since this will be difficult for database users, and because it would
be ambiguous if "healthcare" or similar is not included in the tag.

It would be a good idea if the tag/s developed here could be used with other 
things that have 'departments' such as universities.

Hence my suggestion of 'department', as a key it is used some 799 times .. 
fairly good for something that is not well documented.

See 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Duniversity#Faculties_and_departments

This would make sense for hospitals which have a whole "wing" or
separate building devoted to the surgical service, or obstetrics
(labor and delivery), or a pediatric department which is not a
separate hospital, or a special psychiatric ward, and so on.

I don't see the necessity for a 'whole wing'. I would think that they typically 
would have a defined area, however big or small it is.

For the original poster, it depends whether these HIV centres are
outpatient-only, in which case amenity=clinic is fine. If they admit
inpatients into a special part of the hospital, then a new tag like
healthcare=department / hospital_department is a good idea.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 13/4/20 7:27 pm, Rory McCann wrote:

I think this is a case of “Things within other things”. How do we map
that? For the enclosing hospital, we know how to map that. But how do
we map individual parts within it?

Similar to universities?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=university#Faculties_and_departments

I'd use "department=*" as a subtag ... ???

I'd have to look at a university example where the departments location
was mapped with its details there.

e.g. St. James' Hospital in Dublin (OSM:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32015912 ), the hospital has it's
own phone number, `website` etc. Within that is a HIV (& STI) clinic
http://guideclinic.ie/ It has it's own website, and a specific
location. How should that be tagged?

Beumount Hospital ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22634348 ) has
is mapped and tagged. The Infection Disease service (
http://www.beaumont.ie/index.jsp?p=105=227 ) is “located on the
ground floor in St Johns ward”, and has a phone number & email
address. How can we map this?

OSM could do much better for indoor mapping, and for shopping centres
or train stations, that's easy. Add each `shop` or corridor. But what
about a (sorta of) clinic within a larger OSM object?

2 separate things.

Subtag the main facility with the capabilities that exist.

and/or

Map the locations of the individual departments with their capabilities
etc.

On 13.04.20 10:48, Mikko Tamura wrote:

Thank you for the wonderful insights. Currently, what we are tagging
is the hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a
hospital) we add the tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a
treatment facility and it dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am
having difficulty is that hiv facility is treated like a department.
You can put in the email address and contact details of the hospital
but if I add the contact details of the Hiv facility it then gets
mixed with the hospital details.
In this case A hospital can have a clinic specifically for HIV, and a
clinic can also have a small office for HIV patients (not
specifically another clinic).

Thanks Joseph and Warin most. of the cases are really similar here.

For treatment hubs - yes this is for inpatients similarly for the one
you described. This is are mostly hospitals but in some cases
clinics. My problem here is that a big hospital has alot of contact
details for the hospital so the information and contact details for
the hiv treatment facility are mixed.

For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I cant tagged it
as a pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.

Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local
OSM community in the Philippines.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)

But I feel the feature gets overshadowed by the
hospital/clinic/social facility/office tag. Your thoughts would be
very helpful.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:58 PM Joseph Eisenberg
mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  > Treatment hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing):

     Are you sure you mean "inpatient?" An "inpatient" facility, in
     American English, is a hospital which has beds where patients are
     cared for overnight.

     This would be mapped as amenity=hospital for the main feature, most
     likely.

  > primary hiv

[Tagging] contact:google_plus status discardable ?

2020-04-13 Thread Marc M.

Hello,

the service was shutdown on 2 avril 2019
can we set the status as discardable ?

Regards,
Marc

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

I see. Thanks for your answers. Okay, now it's clearer to me why highway=traffic_signals is used sometimes together with crossing=traffic_signals. I will change the proposal to only add the new traffic_signals=*-value and then get in touch again.

Thanks.

--

Lukas

Gesendet: Montag, 13. April 2020 um 20:16 Uhr
Von: "Mark Wagner" 
An: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 18:42:42 +0200
lukas-...@web.de wrote:

> The second goal my proposal wants to message is to deprecate tagging
> "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on
> the same node. Especially if you're saying this is a full crossing
> mapped. It breaks the highway=crossing - tagging scheme we use for
> all other types of crossing (except crossing=no). Some mappers
> use "crossing=traffic_signals" together with
> "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node als a shortcut for "lane
> traffic signal" and "foot traffic signal" because it is rendered as
> two traffic signals in JOSM. Or for mapping traffic signals for
> crossing cyclists. But I think in every case it is better to use two
> different (nearby) nodes for that. What do you think about it?

I think you should split it up into two proposals.
"highway=traffic_signals;crossing=traffic_signals" is so widely used
there's not a chance you'll get agreement to forbid it. If you tie
your proposed "traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand" tagging to it, all
that will happen is that "traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand" will be
rejected as well.

--
Mark

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

2020-04-13 Thread Mark Wagner

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 18:42:42 +0200
lukas-...@web.de wrote:

> The second goal my proposal wants to message is to deprecate tagging
> "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on
> the same node. Especially if you're saying this is a full crossing
> mapped. It breaks the highway=crossing - tagging scheme we use for
> all other types of crossing (except crossing=no). Some mappers
> use "crossing=traffic_signals" together with
> "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node als a shortcut for "lane
> traffic signal" and "foot traffic signal" because it is rendered as
> two traffic signals in JOSM. Or for mapping traffic signals for
> crossing cyclists. But I think in every case it is better to use two
> different (nearby) nodes for that. What do you think about it?

I think you should split it up into two proposals.
"highway=traffic_signals;crossing=traffic_signals" is so widely used
there's not a chance you'll get agreement to forbid it.  If you tie
your proposed "traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand" tagging to it, all
that will happen is that "traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand" will be
rejected as well.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 17:48,  wrote:

>
> I even do not know whether there is a consensus.
>

 Not yet.  Maybe never.

> In Germany, we use "amenity=clinic" often for everything which has not
> "hospital" (in german) in their name but looks like a hospital, often the
> difference is just emergency=no.
>

That sounds like the distinction between what the UK calls a general
hospital
(big, with emergency unit) and a cottage hospital (small, with only a minor
injuries unit).  Both have inpatient beds.  Both have "hospital" in their
names.

But in the UK we're moving away from cottage hospitals to "Integrated Care
Centres."  They include much of what a cottage hospital did and also other
things like a doctors' general practice and social workers.  But, crucially,
no inpatient beds.  They're not called hospitals by the health boards and
the
public don't think of them as hospitals because there are no beds.  They
include departments that would be tagged as clinics in their own right
if they were stand-alone, such as X-ray and physiotherapy.  Too big
to be tagged as a clinic, no beds so they're not a hospital.

Something else we could use a tag for.  We either need to be able to
specify hospital types such as general and cottage, then hammer the
square peg of an integrated care centre into the round hole of a
type of hospital or we need healthcare=integrated_care_centre.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 17:43,  wrote:

> The second goal my proposal wants to message is to deprecate tagging
> "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on the
> same node. Especially if you're saying this is a full crossing mapped. It
> breaks the highway=crossing - tagging scheme we use for all other types of
> crossing (except crossing=no). Some mappers use "crossing=traffic_signals"
> together with "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node als a shortcut for
> "lane traffic signal" and "foot traffic signal" because it is rendered as
> two traffic signals in JOSM. Or for mapping traffic signals for crossing
> cyclists. But I think in every case it is better to use two different
> (nearby) nodes for that.
>

Am I misunderstanding you?  You propose using two nearby nodes for
https://goo.gl/maps/3Sg5ndQ2ZCMBN9uy9  You can just see the yellow
pedestrian-control box at the left.  It controls the crossing (marked with
studs)
going from left to right across the picture.  The same lights that tell
motorists
to stop for pedestrians also control traffic flow at the T junction ahead.
The
same set of lights is both a highway traffic signal and a crossing traffic
signal.
This sort of thing is not uncommon in the UK, with the same set of lights
being used for both purposes.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

So what's the consensus on clinics? If there is a consenus (rather than the

usual bunfight) I'll amend the wiki pages to make it explicit that clinic

can be used for units/departments/centres in hospitals.

I even do not know whether there is a consensus. In Germany, we use "amenity=clinic" often for everything which has not "hospital" (in german) in their name but looks like a hospital, often the difference is just emergency=no. Many of them are healthcare=rehabilitation, is amenity=clinic then still fitting also with that?

Lukas

Gesendet: Montag, 13. April 2020 um 15:14 Uhr
Von: "Paul Allen"
An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 11:29, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

Right, that doesn't work. If the HIV clinic or department has
different details, such as a different name, opening_hours, website,
etc, then it will need to be mapped as a separate feature, such as an
amenity=clinic node inside of the amenity=hospital area.

Thanks for giving your view of the usage of amenity=clinic (and, by

implication, healthcare=clinic as the wiki states it's an alternative

to amenity=clinic). The wiki pages for healthcare=clinic and

amenity=clinic don't seem to explicitly state that these tags are

appropriate for units/departments/centres of hospitals.

I agree with your view. The value "clinic" may not have been the best we

could have chosen but there doesn't seem to be any other value to use

for the X-ray department, diabetes centre, renal dialysis unit, etc. of a

hospital. Before the current crisis I was mapping my nearest general

hospital and using amenity=clinic + healthcare=clinic in this way.

The only reason to think otherwise is that the wiki page on healthcare

lists only two specialities for clinics: abortion and fertility, indicating that

at least one person considered clinics to be standalone and not normally

part of hospitals.

So what's the consensus on clinics? If there is a consenus (rather than the

usual bunfight) I'll amend the wiki pages to make it explicit that clinic

can be used for units/departments/centres in hospitals.

Paul

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

The second goal my proposal wants to message is to deprecate tagging "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node. Especially if you're saying this is a full crossing mapped. It breaks the highway=crossing - tagging scheme we use for all other types of crossing (except crossing=no). Some mappers use "crossing=traffic_signals" together with "highway=traffic_signals" on the same node als a shortcut for "lane traffic signal" and "foot traffic signal" because it is rendered as two traffic signals in JOSM. Or for mapping traffic signals for crossing cyclists. But I think in every case it is better to use two different (nearby) nodes for that.

What do you think about it?

Lukas

Gesendet: Montag, 13. April 2020 um 14:14 Uhr
Von: lukas-...@web.de
An: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

Hi,

oh sorry you are confused. Maybe it's too much text I think. But your conclusion is completely correct, yes.

Gesendet: Montag, 13. April 2020 um 13:47 Uhr
Von: "Andrew Davidson"
An: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

I'm a bit confused by your proposal, but it would seem to me that what you want to do is add crossing_on_demand to the list of values for the key traffic_signals. Is this correct?

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:10 PM wrote:

Hi people,

I made a proposal to reform the tagging of those traffic signals, which do only control a crossing. The proposal has two main messages: First that crossing=traffic_signals is every time a strict under-tag of highway=crossing and should not be used on the same node with highway=traffic_signals, because it makes the scheme of how we tag crossings (on nodes) inconsistent. The second is that it wants to add the value traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand as an under-tag of highway=traffic_signals, to mark for the lane-traffic that there is a traffic-signals-node whch does only control an "on demand" crossing. These sets of lane traffic signals often miss a green light because most of the time there is "default green". Also it would fit into the traffic_signals=* tagging scheme for specifying the "type" of a traffic signal.

The link to the proposal is here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/traffic_signals%3Dcrossing_on_demand

I'm looking forward to your comments. Please (also) comment on the proposal's discussion page.

Yours, Lukas

User Lukas458

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Re: [Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 15:09, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> >  I suspect carto people are going to say "no synonyms."
>
> While synonyms are a bad idea, we are talking about something that is
> NOT a synonym: an inpatient department of a hospital, rather than a
> clinic or doctor's office.
>

Since you're double-hatted, I'm happy to go along with you there.  Umm,
triple-hatted - tagging, carto and medical.  Come up with a new
healthcare=* and I'll replace the healthcare=clinic I was using for
lack of anything better.  Doesn't matter if it doesn't render yet
because everything has been re-arranged in hospitals and won't
return to normal for many months (if ever).

> What is needed, though, is a tag for hospital wards.
>
> That might also be useful. Could you explain the difference between
> "department" and "ward" in British English usage?
>

In BE usage, wards are where inpatients sleep.  Departments are things
like the X-ray unit, diabetes centre, renal dialysis unit, endoscopy,
outpatient
department, chemotherapy day unit and outpatients department (all actual
names of departments at my nearest general hospital).  Going by wikipedia,
it seems likely that BE wards may be known as inpatient wards elsewhere.

>
> I found a page with a list of departments at NHS hospitals, so
> apparently both words are used to mean something different:
>
>
> https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health-services/nhs/a4502/a-to-z-of-hospital-departments/

That page doesn't explicitly define what a ward is in BE, but if you search
for
the word "ward" on the page it is clear from context that a ward is where
inpatients
sleep.

Another thing that page mentions is a discharge lounge.  It's not where you
get some sort of medical treatment, like endoscopy or X-ray or renal
dialysis,
nor is it a place to sleep.  It's where they put you after they've decided
you're no longer ill enough to occupy a bed on a ward and you're awaiting
collection by somebody (possibly hospital transport if your circumstances
warrant it).  The one at my nearest general hospital had 12 chairs (each
with accompanying adjustable table of the type that accompanies ward
beds) and a couple of hospital beds.  It had a nurse or nursing assistant
in charge, in case somebody had a relapse.  Somebody from the pharmacy
would hand patients take-home medications as required.  Worth mapping (so
whoever is picking you up can figure out where to go and park), but probably
requires a different healthcare=* value and a different carto icon.  See
https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/discharge-lounge.htm for details of a
discharge lounge in the UK (fancier than the one at my nearest general
hospital).

>
> BTW, what is the most common term for an "emergency department" in the UK?
>
> Is it still "Emergency Ward" or "Accident and Emergency Ward" or
> something different
>

The terms "casualty" and "emergency ward" are still in use by the public but
hospitals themselves call them A

Which reminds me, cottage hospitals (small, minor hospitals) don't have an
A but may have a minor injuries unit.  If you lopped your hand off with a
chainsaw you need an A but if you put a big gash in your hand that
won't stop bleeding a minor injuries unit can handle it.
https://www.myhealth.london.nhs.uk/faq/minor-injury-units-mius

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Unifying playground equipment tagging) - Cancelled

> How should the following scenario be tagged:

> Playground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/320398422 just has one equipment 
> (sandpit) and this equipment (sandpit) fills up the whole area of the 
> playground.

> The tagging used here is as follow:

>(access=yes) reluctant for our purpose
>leisure=playground
>playground=sandpit

This looks fine. The whole playgorund is just the sandpit, so using
the same area for both is not too bad. And the area is about 10 x 10
meters, so it isn't tiny.

I also think it would be fine to just use playground=sandpit alone, in
this case, and especially for a smaller sandpit.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, Sören Reinecke via Tagging  wrote:
> Due to your feedback I will cancel the proposal. AGAIN: What you say is
> 100% correct. This proposal's purpose was just to simplify what seems
> unclear to many (not all) mappers.
>
> But keep you eyes on the following unsolved scenario:
> ---
> How should the following scenario be tagged:
> Playground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/320398422 just has one
> equipment (sandpit) and this equipment (sandpit) fills up the whole
> area of the playground. The tagging used here is as follow:
> (access=yes)  reluctant for our purpose
> leisure=playground
> playground=sandpit
>
> Helpful resources:
> https://wiki.osm.org/Key:playground:
> https://wiki.osm.org/Key:playground
> ---
>
> Summary about what you said about this case:
>> Re: > This would allow to map playgrounds and their equipment in
> situations where a playground just has one equipment and this
> equipment fills up the whole area of the playground.
>
>> Mappers can tag "leisure=playground" + "playground=structure"  on the
> same node or area in this case, right?
>
>
> My answer: > The Wikipage for "Key:playground" says the following: "It
> should be
> tagged to separate objects within the area of a playground". An
> exception is given with "Only when the position of the individual
> objects cannot be mapped yet" at the really end of the page. But for
> such cases where we cannot map playground equipment as an extra object
> we have the Key:playground:* .
>
>> Well the equipment in this case is playground=sandpit.
> As the outline of the sandpit is identical with the outline of the
> leisure=playground, why would
> this be wrong?
>
>
> My answer: Theoretically you need to create an object for the
> playground itself
> and another object for the playground equipment. Both then will share
> the same geometries (outline). In practical meaning you normally won't
> map it this way because it is idiotic. My proposal also reflects that
> and provides a way to map such cases without having to do it the
> theoretical way.
>
>
> We should clarify how to handle such cases in the wiki
>
> Cheers
>
> Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
> -Original Message-
> From: Sören Reinecke via Tagging 
> Reply-To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org>
> To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
> Cc: Sören Reinecke 
> Subject: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Unifying playground
> equipment tagging)
> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 16:43:59 +0200
>
> Hey,
> a new RFC for
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Unifying-playground-equipment-tagging
>
> Purpose:Simplified tagging of playground equipment on the playground
> itself oras separate object. Both schemes already exist and I want to
> combinethem to help to decrease tagging errors.
> Proposal:I propose the key playground to be deprecated and the use of
> keyplayground:* instead. That would mean that on both playground
> andplayground equipment objects in OSM the key playground:* applies.
> Thisthen would also allow to map playgrounds and their equipment
> insituations where a playground just has one equipment and this
> equipmentfills up the whole area of the playground.
>
>
>
> What I feel:I know many of you do not want developers to speak about
> how you shoulddo things. But I think a dialogue is necessary and also
> good for us alland we can learn from each other: Mappers know the
> philosophy of OSM,the mapping, tagging and the QA, they know what to
> achieve how.Developers know the philosophy of orthogonality and
> nornmalisation ofthings and can help mappers to make OSM more useful.
> I am the developer of Babykarte. Babykarte follows what I want
> topropose for a quite long time already with some extra
> specificationswhich enables it to be quite flexible in interpreting the
> tagging. Thismakes Babykarte a really good interpreter of the tagging
> of playgroundequipment. This is necessary to do for us developers (we
> would be happyif all mappers would stick to the specs) because some
> mappers decidednot to read the wiki carefully or not at all but instead
> to actuallymap without knowing how. So developers always need to do
> someinterpreting and thinking of all the possibilities people do not
> map inaccordance with the spec. This makes us to create our own spec
> thatbuilds on the

Re: [Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

>  I suspect carto people are going to say "no synonyms."

While synonyms are a bad idea, we are talking about something that is
NOT a synonym: an inpatient department of a hospital, rather than a
clinic or doctor's office.

> What is needed, though, is a tag for hospital wards.

That might also be useful. Could you explain the difference between
"department" and "ward" in British English usage?

I found a page with a list of departments at NHS hospitals, so
apparently both words are used to mean something different:

https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health-services/nhs/a4502/a-to-z-of-hospital-departments/

BTW, what is the most common term for an "emergency department" in the UK?

Is it still "Emergency Ward" or "Accident and Emergency Ward" or
something different

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, Paul Allen  wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 12:30, Joseph Eisenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I do agree that "healthcare=department" or perhaps
>> "healthcare=hospital_department" would make sense for an inpatient
>> department within a larger hospital, since that is certainly not an
>> amenity=clinic (which are outpatient facilities).
>>
>
> Some may be both for inpatients and outpatients.  Like X-ray.  If you
> insist
> on a separate value for use when the facility is within a hospital and may
> be
> used by inpatients, then I suspect carto people are going to say "no
> synonyms."
>
> What is needed, though, is a tag for hospital wards.  By "wards" I mean how
> the term is used in British English and not as stated by
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital#Departments_or_wards
> In British English a ward is a collection of beds for inpatients.  Some
> specialized wards may be clinics/departments as well as collections
> of beds, but most are effectively dormitories.  My nearest general hospital
> has 20 wards scattered around a large complex and it would be nice
> for people visiting patients to be able to see where they are on a map.
>
> --
> Paul
>

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Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 14:43, Andrew Hain 
wrote:

> One possibility would be to create data items for mappable attributes, for
> instance post_box:type=pillar.
>

That would work.  But then I'm left wondering what purpose it serves anyway.
The images are already on the respective wiki pages.  What reason is there
for
duplicating them on a wikidata page and adding to the maintenance burden?

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 12:30, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> Ok, I do agree that "healthcare=department" or perhaps
> "healthcare=hospital_department" would make sense for an inpatient
> department within a larger hospital, since that is certainly not an
> amenity=clinic (which are outpatient facilities).
>

Some may be both for inpatients and outpatients.  Like X-ray.  If you insist
on a separate value for use when the facility is within a hospital and may
be
used by inpatients, then I suspect carto people are going to say "no
synonyms."

What is needed, though, is a tag for hospital wards.  By "wards" I mean how
the term is used in British English and not as stated by
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital#Departments_or_wards
In British English a ward is a collection of beds for inpatients.  Some
specialized wards may be clinics/departments as well as collections
of beds, but most are effectively dormitories.  My nearest general hospital
has 20 wards scattered around a large complex and it would be nice
for people visiting patients to be able to see where they are on a map.

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Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

2020-04-13 Thread Andrew Hain

One possibility would be to create data items for mappable attributes, for 
instance post_box:type=pillar.

--
Andrew

From: Paul Allen 
Sent: 13 April 2020 14:35
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 14:03, Andrew Hain 
mailto:andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote:
I copied pictures from the Tag:amenity=post_box page in various languages, any 
more would be added by hand.

The UK has several types of postbox, only one of which is shown on the wiki
page for amenity=postbox.  What do you do in the wikidata if more UK examples
are added to amenity=postbox?

Would it be better (if it's technically possible) to instead have the wikidata
refer to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:post_box:type#Values_in_use_in_United_Kingdom

--
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Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 14:03, Andrew Hain 
wrote:

> I copied pictures from the Tag:amenity=post_box page in various languages,
> any more would be added by hand.
>

The UK has several types of postbox, only one of which is shown on the wiki
page for amenity=postbox.  What do you do in the wikidata if more UK
examples
are added to amenity=postbox?

Would it be better (if it's technically possible) to instead have the
wikidata
refer to
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:post_box:type#Values_in_use_in_United_Kingdom

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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

2020-04-13 Thread Mikko Tamura

I think a department or a small office is a better primary tag for hiv
treatment centers/ testing/ dispensary. Usually in our case in the
Philippines, a small building has a clinic and in that clinic there is a
small office space or room/s for hiv testing and for dispensing.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:16 PM Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 11:29, Joseph Eisenberg 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Right, that doesn't work. If the HIV clinic or department has
>> different details, such as a different name, opening_hours, website,
>> etc, then it will need to be mapped as a separate feature, such as an
>> amenity=clinic node inside of the amenity=hospital area.
>>
>
> Thanks for giving your view of  the usage of amenity=clinic (and, by
> implication, healthcare=clinic as the wiki states it's an alternative
> to amenity=clinic).  The wiki pages for healthcare=clinic and
> amenity=clinic don't seem to explicitly state that these tags are
> appropriate for units/departments/centres of hospitals.
>
> I agree with your view.  The value "clinic" may not have been the best we
> could have chosen but there doesn't seem to be any other value to use
> for the X-ray department, diabetes centre, renal dialysis unit, etc. of a
> hospital. Before the current crisis I was mapping my nearest general
> hospital and using amenity=clinic + healthcare=clinic in this way.
>
> The only reason to think otherwise is that the wiki page on healthcare
> lists only two specialities for clinics: abortion and fertility,
> indicating that
> at least one person considered clinics to be standalone and not normally
> part of hospitals.
>
> So what's the consensus on clinics?  If there is a consenus (rather than
> the
> usual bunfight) I'll amend the wiki pages to make it explicit that clinic
> can be used for units/departments/centres in hospitals.
>
> --
> Paul
>
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*MIKKO L. TAMURA*
*Administrator*
*Map Beks Initiative*

*Externals Head*
*Pilipinas Chubs X Chasers*

*Volunteer Mapper*
*OpenStreetMap Philippines*
*Contact Number: +639052320416*
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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 at 11:29, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

>
> Right, that doesn't work. If the HIV clinic or department has
> different details, such as a different name, opening_hours, website,
> etc, then it will need to be mapped as a separate feature, such as an
> amenity=clinic node inside of the amenity=hospital area.
>

Thanks for giving your view of  the usage of amenity=clinic (and, by
implication, healthcare=clinic as the wiki states it's an alternative
to amenity=clinic).  The wiki pages for healthcare=clinic and
amenity=clinic don't seem to explicitly state that these tags are
appropriate for units/departments/centres of hospitals.

I agree with your view.  The value "clinic" may not have been the best we
could have chosen but there doesn't seem to be any other value to use
for the X-ray department, diabetes centre, renal dialysis unit, etc. of a
hospital. Before the current crisis I was mapping my nearest general
hospital and using amenity=clinic + healthcare=clinic in this way.

The only reason to think otherwise is that the wiki page on healthcare
lists only two specialities for clinics: abortion and fertility, indicating
that
at least one person considered clinics to be standalone and not normally
part of hospitals.

So what's the consensus on clinics?  If there is a consenus (rather than the
usual bunfight) I'll amend the wiki pages to make it explicit that clinic
can be used for units/departments/centres in hospitals.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Unifying playground equipment tagging) - Cancelled

2020-04-13 Thread Sören Reinecke via Tagging

Due to your feedback I will cancel the proposal. AGAIN: What you say is
100% correct. This proposal's purpose was just to simplify what seems
unclear to many (not all) mappers.

But keep you eyes on the following unsolved scenario:
---
How should the following scenario be tagged:
Playground https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/320398422 just has one
equipment (sandpit) and this equipment (sandpit) fills up the whole
area of the playground. The tagging used here is as follow:
(access=yes)  reluctant for our purpose
leisure=playground
playground=sandpit

Helpful resources:
https://wiki.osm.org/Key:playground:
https://wiki.osm.org/Key:playground
---

Summary about what you said about this case:
> Re: > This would allow to map playgrounds and their equipment in
situations where a playground just has one equipment and this
equipment fills up the whole area of the playground.

> Mappers can tag "leisure=playground" + "playground=structure"  on the
same node or area in this case, right?


My answer: > The Wikipage for "Key:playground" says the following: "It
should be
tagged to separate objects within the area of a playground". An
exception is given with "Only when the position of the individual
objects cannot be mapped yet" at the really end of the page. But for
such cases where we cannot map playground equipment as an extra object
we have the Key:playground:* .

> Well the equipment in this case is playground=sandpit.
As the outline of the sandpit is identical with the outline of the
leisure=playground, why would
this be wrong?


My answer: Theoretically you need to create an object for the
playground itself
and another object for the playground equipment. Both then will share
the same geometries (outline). In practical meaning you normally won't
map it this way because it is idiotic. My proposal also reflects that
and provides a way to map such cases without having to do it the
theoretical way.


We should clarify how to handle such cases in the wiki

Cheers

Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
-Original Message-
From: Sören Reinecke via Tagging 
Reply-To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" <
tagging@openstreetmap.org>
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Cc: Sören Reinecke 
Subject: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Unifying playground
equipment tagging)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 16:43:59 +0200

Hey,
a new RFC for 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Unifying-playground-equipment-tagging

Purpose:Simplified tagging of playground equipment on the playground
itself oras separate object. Both schemes already exist and I want to
combinethem to help to decrease tagging errors.
Proposal:I propose the key playground to be deprecated and the use of
keyplayground:* instead. That would mean that on both playground
andplayground equipment objects in OSM the key playground:* applies.
Thisthen would also allow to map playgrounds and their equipment
insituations where a playground just has one equipment and this
equipmentfills up the whole area of the playground.



What I feel:I know many of you do not want developers to speak about
how you shoulddo things. But I think a dialogue is necessary and also
good for us alland we can learn from each other: Mappers know the
philosophy of OSM,the mapping, tagging and the QA, they know what to
achieve how.Developers know the philosophy of orthogonality and
nornmalisation ofthings and can help mappers to make OSM more useful.
I am the developer of Babykarte. Babykarte follows what I want
topropose for a quite long time already with some extra
specificationswhich enables it to be quite flexible in interpreting the
tagging. Thismakes Babykarte a really good interpreter of the tagging
of playgroundequipment. This is necessary to do for us developers (we
would be happyif all mappers would stick to the specs) because some
mappers decidednot to read the wiki carefully or not at all but instead
to actuallymap without knowing how. So developers always need to do
someinterpreting and thinking of all the possibilities people do not
map inaccordance with the spec. This makes us to create our own spec
thatbuilds on the official one because people aren't following
thecommunity's specs.





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Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

2020-04-13 Thread Andrew Hain

I copied pictures from the Tag:amenity=post_box page in various languages, any 
more would be added by hand.

--
Andrew


From: Jake Edmonds via Tagging 
Sent: 13 April 2020 13:48
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 
Cc: Jake Edmonds 
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

It’s not obvious how this works (at least to me). At first I assumed the 
gallery pulled images from Wikidata but the Wikidata page doesn’t have those 
images listed.

> On 13 Apr 2020, at 14:16, Andrew Hain  wrote:
>
> One feature of the OSM wiki data items that has seen little use so far is the 
> ability to set geographically specific properties. I have reorganised the 
> images for amenity=post_box (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q6349) 
> to use this scheme, but many countries are still missing and still need to be 
> set up as options.
>
> --
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Re: [Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

2020-04-13 Thread Jake Edmonds via Tagging

It’s not obvious how this works (at least to me). At first I assumed the 
gallery pulled images from Wikidata but the Wikidata page doesn’t have those 
images listed. 

> On 13 Apr 2020, at 14:16, Andrew Hain  wrote:
> 
> One feature of the OSM wiki data items that has seen little use so far is the 
> ability to set geographically specific properties. I have reorganised the 
> images for amenity=post_box (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q6349) 
> to use this scheme, but many countries are still missing and still need to be 
> set up as options.
> 
> --
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[Tagging] Country-specific images for tags

2020-04-13 Thread Andrew Hain

One feature of the OSM wiki data items that has seen little use so far is the 
ability to set geographically specific properties. I have reorganised the 
images for amenity=post_box (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q6349) to 
use this scheme, but many countries are still missing and still need to be set 
up as options.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

Hi,

oh sorry you are confused. Maybe it's too much text I think. But your conclusion is completely correct, yes.

I'm a bit confused by your proposal, but it would seem to me that what you want to do is add crossing_on_demand to the list of values for the key traffic_signals. Is this correct?

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:10 PM wrote:

Hi people,

The link to the proposal is here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/traffic_signals%3Dcrossing_on_demand

I'm looking forward to your comments. Please (also) comment on the proposal's discussion page.

Yours, Lukas

User Lukas458

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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

2020-04-13 Thread Kovoschiz

>I think one issue is that healthcare tagging in OSM is a big of a mess.
There's the `healthcare`, `medical_service`, `health_service`,
`health_facility` etc. Some are probably from imports where someone
makes up a new tagging scheme, causing further fragmentation and confusion. 

Seems the inactive/abandoned
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Healthcare_2.0, should
be the origin for some of the other tags, to which it is adopted/adapted. It
looks very complex, and had pushbacks at its time as well. To compare, there
are for example `disease:malaria=*`, `disease:ebola=*`, and some
`disease:covid19`, all in <1k use respectively. 

>`hiv_{treatment,medication}=*` could work, but a more general approach
might be nice... 

For the issue at hand, it may be clearer to consider "the thing to be
treated" (be it the virus, or the  virus disease), service, and facility
separately. Specialty is like a broader, higher-level, encompassing concept
that isn't really needed here yet.  

Think we can negate what a service or facility excludes in particular easily
(by a virus/disease key suffix, or conditional tags), after tagging the
viruses/diseases relevant to the object in general first. This beats having
to exhaustively list out what each service supports.


ebel wrote
> On 13.04.20 09:57, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>>> testing centers/clinics (testing only)
>> 
>> Is this a doctor's office, or is there just a nurse, or just a
>> laboratory technician who can draw blood for the test? If there is a
>> doctor, it might be an amenity=doctors. If there is just a laboratory
>> for testing, that would be a healthcare=laboratory facility.
> 
> What if there's HIV testing at a bar or nightclub? (I'm not joking.) 
> Blood gets taken, but not tested there. “This place does HIV tests 
> (between these hours)”. How would we tag that?
> 
>> For the speciality, it's possible to use something like
>> healthcare:speciality=hiv if that's the only thing that the clinic
>> treats.
>> 
>> But here in Indonesia and back in the USA most clinics that treat HIV
>> also offer treatment for other infectious  conditions, so a different
>> specialty like healthcare:speciality=infectious_diseases would usually
>> be more correct.
>> 
>> I see that in the Phillipines the tag "disease:hiv=yes" has been used:
>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disease%3Ahiv#map
>> 
>> In Indonesia and the USA you can get an HIV test at just about any
>> healthcare=laboratory and larger clinics and all hospitals. But if you
>> can only get this done at some specialized places in the Phillipines,
>> you could consider adding a tag like "hiv_testing=yes/no" for clinics,
>> doctor's offices, and laboratories.
>> 
>> Similarly, in the USA it's normal to be able to get hiv medications
>> from standard pharmacies.
> 
> I don't know about US or IN &  HIV drugs, but at least the US has laws 
> allowing pharmacies to refuse to fulfill prescriptions for “religious 
> objection” ( 
> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3amzp/in-these-states-pharmacists-can-refuse-to-fill-your-prescription-for-religious-beliefs
>  
> ) . Now-a-days that's mostly abortion, but it might be relevant
> 
> “This pharmacy will/will not fill perscriptions for $TREATMENT” is 
> something we could map in OSM. How should we do that?
> 
> But if they are only available from a few
>> pharmacies in your country, you could add a tag like
>> "hiv_medication=yes/no" to an "amenity=pharmacy" facility.
>> 
>> It looks like "medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes" has been
>> used in combination. That seems overlong and complex,  so it would not
>> have been my first choice:
>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/medical_service%3Aantiretroviral_therapy
> 
> `hiv_{treatment,medication}=*` could work, but a more general approach 
> might be nice...
> 
> I think one issue is that healthcare tagging in OSM is a big of a mess. 
> There's the `healthcare`, `medical_service`, `health_service`, 
> `health_facility` etc. Some are probably from imports where someone 
> makes up a new tagging scheme, causing further fragmentation and
> confusion.
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

2020-04-13 Thread Andrew Davidson

I'm a bit confused by your proposal, but it would seem to me that what you
want to do is add crossing_on_demand to the list of values for the key
traffic_signals. Is this correct?


On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 9:10 PM  wrote:

> Hi people,
> I made a proposal to reform the tagging of those traffic signals, which do
> only control a crossing. The proposal has two main messages: First that
> crossing=traffic_signals is every time a strict under-tag of
> highway=crossing and should not be used on the same node with
> highway=traffic_signals, because it makes the scheme of how we tag
> crossings (on nodes) inconsistent. The second is that it wants to add the
> value traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand as an under-tag of
> highway=traffic_signals, to mark for the lane-traffic that there is a
> traffic-signals-node whch does only control an "on demand" crossing. These
> sets of lane traffic signals often miss a green light because most of the
> time there is "default green". Also it would fit into the traffic_signals=*
> tagging scheme for specifying the "type" of a traffic signal.
>
> The link to the proposal is here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/traffic_signals%3Dcrossing_on_demand
>
> I'm looking forward to your comments. Please (also) comment on the
> proposal's discussion page.
>
> Yours, Lukas
> User Lukas458
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Re: [Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

Ok, I do agree that "healthcare=department" or perhaps
"healthcare=hospital_department" would make sense for an inpatient
department within a larger hospital, since that is certainly not an
amenity=clinic (which are outpatient facilities).

It would not be a good idea to use a totally new key like
"department=" on a feature like this which could be mapped as an area,
since this will be difficult for database users, and because it would
be ambiguous if "healthcare" or similar is not included in the tag.

This would make sense for hospitals which have a whole "wing" or
separate building devoted to the surgical service, or obstetrics
(labor and delivery), or a pediatric department which is not a
separate hospital, or a special psychiatric ward, and so on.

For the original poster, it depends whether these HIV centres are
outpatient-only, in which case amenity=clinic is fine. If they admit
inpatients into a special part of the hospital, then a new tag like
healthcare=department / hospital_department is a good idea.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/4/20 7:27 pm, Rory McCann wrote:
>> I think this is a case of “Things within other things”. How do we map
>> that? For the enclosing hospital, we know how to map that. But how do
>> we map individual parts within it?
>
>
> Similar to universities?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=university#Faculties_and_departments
>
> I'd use "department=*" as a subtag ... ???
>
>
> I'd have to look at a university example where the departments location
> was mapped with its details there.
>
>>
>> e.g. St. James' Hospital in Dublin (OSM:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32015912 ), the hospital has it's
>> own phone number, `website` etc. Within that is a HIV (& STI) clinic
>> http://guideclinic.ie/ It has it's own website, and a specific
>> location. How should that be tagged?
>>
>> Beumount Hospital ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22634348 ) has
>> is mapped and tagged. The Infection Disease service (
>> http://www.beaumont.ie/index.jsp?p=105=227 ) is “located on the
>> ground floor in St Johns ward”, and has a phone number & email
>> address. How can we map this?
>>
>> OSM could do much better for indoor mapping, and for shopping centres
>> or train stations, that's easy. Add each `shop` or corridor. But what
>> about a (sorta of) clinic within a larger OSM object?
>
>
> 2 separate things.
>
> Subtag the main facility with the capabilities that exist.
>
>
> and/or
>
>
> Map the locations of the individual departments with their capabilities
> etc.
>
>
>
>>
>> On 13.04.20 10:48, Mikko Tamura wrote:
>>> Thank you for the wonderful insights. Currently, what we are tagging
>>> is the hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a
>>> hospital) we add the tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a
>>> treatment facility and it dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am
>>> having difficulty is that hiv facility is treated like a department.
>>> You can put in the email address and contact details of the hospital
>>> but if I add the contact details of the Hiv facility it then gets
>>> mixed with the hospital details.
>>> In this case A hospital can have a clinic specifically for HIV, and a
>>> clinic can also have a small office for HIV patients (not
>>> specifically another clinic).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Joseph and Warin most. of the cases are really similar here.
>>>
>>> For treatment hubs - yes this is for inpatients similarly for the one
>>> you described. This is are mostly hospitals but in some cases
>>> clinics. My problem here is that a big hospital has alot of contact
>>> details for the hospital so the information and contact details for
>>> the hiv treatment facility are mixed.
>>>
>>> For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I cant tagged it
>>> as a pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.
>>>
>>> Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local
>>> OSM community in the Philippines.
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)
>>>
>>> But I feel the feature gets overshadowed by the
>>> hospital/clinic/social facility/office tag. Your thoughts would be
>>> very helpful.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:58 PM Joseph Eisenberg
>>> mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  > Treatment hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing):
>>>
>>>     Are you sure you mean "inpatient?" An "inpatient" facility, in
>>>     American English, is a hospital which has beds where patients are
>>>     cared for overnight.
>>>
>>>     This would be mapped as amenity=hospital for the main feature, most
>>>     likely.
>>>
>>>  > primary hiv care (dispensaries+testing)
>>>
>>>     You don't mention care by a nurse or physician, but I assume this is
>>>     an amenity=clinic (with physicians and nurses) which also has an
>>>     amenity=pharmacy in the same building. There might also be a
>>>     healthcare=laboratory at the

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand

Hi people,

I made a proposal to reform the tagging of those traffic signals, which do only control a crossing. The proposal has two main messages: First that crossing=traffic_signals is every time a strict under-tag of highway=crossing and should not be used on the same node with highway=traffic_signals, because it makes the scheme of how we tag crossings (on nodes) inconsistent. The second is that it wants to add the value traffic_signals=crossing_on_demand as an under-tag of highway=traffic_signals, to mark for the lane-traffic that there is a traffic-signals-node whch does only control an "on demand" crossing. These sets of lane traffic signals often miss a green light because most of the time there is "default green". Also it would fit into the traffic_signals=* tagging scheme for specifying the "type" of a traffic signal.

 

The link to the proposal is here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/traffic_signals%3Dcrossing_on_demand

 

I'm looking forward to your comments. Please (also) comment on the proposal's discussion page.

 

Yours, Lukas

User Lukas458

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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.


On 13/4/20 8:25 pm, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

... Currently, what we are tagging is the
hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a hospital) we add the
tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a treatment facility and it
dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am having difficulty is that hiv
facility is treated like a department. You can put in the email address and
contact details of the hospital but if I add the contact details of the Hiv
facility it then gets mixed with the hospital details.

Right, that doesn't work. If the HIV clinic or department has
different details, such as a different name, opening_hours, website,
etc, then it will need to be mapped as a separate feature, such as an
amenity=clinic node inside of the amenity=hospital area.


amenity=clinic in OSM is defined in such a way as not to be useful in this way.



It's common for a big hospital or "medical center" to have many
clinics on the same property or even in the same building. My
residency clinic was in a building inside of Long Beach Medical
Center, which also contained a children's hospital, a nursing home,
labs, radiology, and a number of outpatient clinics in a series of
connected buildings.

Here in Indonesia, a public hospital will have an emergency
department, a surgical building, several buildings for inpatients, a
couple of outpatient clinics, pharmacy, laboratory, radiology, etc.

If you need to add different details for these sorts of features, then
map each as it's own node (or an area, for example if it has a
separate wing or whole building), and tag with amenity= or healthcare=
as appropriate.


I'd go with healthcare. And I'd use department as that is similarly used with 
universities.


For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I can't tagged it as a
pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.

Any facility which dispenses prescription medication is a pharmacy, in
British and American understanding. Most countries regulate these like
a bigger pharmacy.


Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local OSM
community in the Philippines.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)

That's a rather complicated system. A hospital which offers HIV
treatment is supposed to get all of these tags:

"amenity=hospital"
...
"disease:hiv=yes
"health_service:test=yes
"health_facility:dispensary=yes
"health_service:counselling=yes
"counselling_type:sexual=yes
"medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes
"medical_service:outpatient=yes
"description=DOH HIV Treatment Hub"

This seems overly complicated.

A few tags seem unnecessary or unclear:

"medical_service:outpatient=yes" - almost all hospitals offer
outpatient services.

"health_service:test=yes" - this is quite vague. It would be better to
use healthcare=laborator (as a node at the actual location of the
laboratory) or "hiv_test=yes" if only rapid HIV testing is offered
rather than a complete laboratory.

"health_facility:dispensary=yes" - if there is a pharmacy or a
dispensary, it would be better to tag this as "amenity=pharmacy" at
the actual location. I suppose if there is no pharmacist and it's just
a doctor's office or nurses who give out medications, then a shorter
tag like "dispensing=yes" would be proper to add to the clinic or
office. See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dispensing

"description=DOH HIV Treatment Hub" - it would be better to add this
as a tag, like "hiv_treatment_hub=yes" rather than use description

(I also would not add healthcare=clinic or healthcare=hospital - just
use amenity=hospital or amenity=clinic, no need to add a second tag
with the same meaning.)

-- Joseph Eisenberg

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Re: [Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

On 13/4/20 7:27 pm, Rory McCann wrote:
I think this is a case of “Things within other things”. How do we map 
that? For the enclosing hospital, we know how to map that. But how do 
we map individual parts within it?

Similar to universities?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=university#Faculties_and_departments

I'd use "department=*" as a subtag ... ???

I'd have to look at a university example where the departments location 
was mapped with its details there.

e.g. St. James' Hospital in Dublin (OSM: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32015912 ), the hospital has it's 
own phone number, `website` etc. Within that is a HIV (& STI) clinic 
http://guideclinic.ie/ It has it's own website, and a specific 
location. How should that be tagged?

Beumount Hospital ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22634348 ) has 
is mapped and tagged. The Infection Disease service ( 
http://www.beaumont.ie/index.jsp?p=105=227 ) is “located on the 
ground floor in St Johns ward”, and has a phone number & email 
address. How can we map this?

OSM could do much better for indoor mapping, and for shopping centres 
or train stations, that's easy. Add each `shop` or corridor. But what 
about a (sorta of) clinic within a larger OSM object?

2 separate things.

Subtag the main facility with the capabilities that exist.

and/or

Map the locations of the individual departments with their capabilities 
etc.

On 13.04.20 10:48, Mikko Tamura wrote:
Thank you for the wonderful insights. Currently, what we are tagging 
is the hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a 
hospital) we add the tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a 
treatment facility and it dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am 
having difficulty is that hiv facility is treated like a department. 
You can put in the email address and contact details of the hospital 
but if I add the contact details of the Hiv facility it then gets 
mixed with the hospital details.
In this case A hospital can have a clinic specifically for HIV, and a 
clinic can also have a small office for HIV patients (not 
specifically another clinic).

Thanks Joseph and Warin most. of the cases are really similar here.

For treatment hubs - yes this is for inpatients similarly for the one 
you described. This is are mostly hospitals but in some cases 
clinics. My problem here is that a big hospital has alot of contact 
details for the hospital so the information and contact details for 
the hiv treatment facility are mixed.

For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I cant tagged it 
as a pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.

Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local 
OSM community in the Philippines.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)

But I feel the feature gets overshadowed by the 
hospital/clinic/social facility/office tag. Your thoughts would be 
very helpful.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:58 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 > Treatment hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing):

    Are you sure you mean "inpatient?" An "inpatient" facility, in
    American English, is a hospital which has beds where patients are
    cared for overnight.

    This would be mapped as amenity=hospital for the main feature, most
    likely.

 > primary hiv care (dispensaries+testing)

    You don't mention care by a nurse or physician, but I assume this is
    an amenity=clinic (with physicians and nurses) which also has an
    amenity=pharmacy in the same building. There might also be a
    healthcare=laboratory at the location.

 > testing centers/clinics (testing only)

    Is this a doctor's office, or is there just a nurse, or just a
    laboratory technician who can draw blood for the test? If there is a
    doctor, it might be an amenity=doctors. If there is just a 
laboratory

    for testing, that would be a healthcare=laboratory facility.

    For the speciality, it's possible to use something like
    healthcare:speciality=hiv if that's the only thing that the clinic
    treats.

    But here in Indonesia and back in the USA most clinics that treat 
HIV
    also offer treatment for other infectious  conditions, so a 
different
    specialty like healthcare:speciality=infectious_diseases would 
usually

    be more correct.

    I see that in the Phillipines the tag "disease:hiv=yes" has been 
used:

    https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disease%3Ahiv#map

    In Indonesia and the USA you can get an HIV test at just about any
    healthcare=laboratory and larger clinics and all hospitals. But 
if you
    can only get this done at some specialized places in the 
Phillipines,
    you could consider adding a tag like "hiv_testing=yes/no" for 
clinics,

    doctor's offices, and laboratories.

    Similarly, in the USA it's normal to be able to get hiv medications
    from standard pharmacies. But if they are only

Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

> ... Currently, what we are tagging is the
> hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a hospital) we add the
> tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a treatment facility and it
> dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am having difficulty is that hiv
> facility is treated like a department. You can put in the email address and
> contact details of the hospital but if I add the contact details of the Hiv
> facility it then gets mixed with the hospital details.

Right, that doesn't work. If the HIV clinic or department has
different details, such as a different name, opening_hours, website,
etc, then it will need to be mapped as a separate feature, such as an
amenity=clinic node inside of the amenity=hospital area.

It's common for a big hospital or "medical center" to have many
clinics on the same property or even in the same building. My
residency clinic was in a building inside of Long Beach Medical
Center, which also contained a children's hospital, a nursing home,
labs, radiology, and a number of outpatient clinics in a series of
connected buildings.

Here in Indonesia, a public hospital will have an emergency
department, a surgical building, several buildings for inpatients, a
couple of outpatient clinics, pharmacy, laboratory, radiology, etc.

If you need to add different details for these sorts of features, then
map each as it's own node (or an area, for example if it has a
separate wing or whole building), and tag with amenity= or healthcare=
as appropriate.

> For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I can't tagged it as a
> pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.

Any facility which dispenses prescription medication is a pharmacy, in
British and American understanding. Most countries regulate these like
a bigger pharmacy.

> Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local OSM
> community in the Philippines.
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)

That's a rather complicated system. A hospital which offers HIV
treatment is supposed to get all of these tags:

"amenity=hospital"
...
"disease:hiv=yes
"health_service:test=yes
"health_facility:dispensary=yes
"health_service:counselling=yes
"counselling_type:sexual=yes
"medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes
"medical_service:outpatient=yes
"description=DOH HIV Treatment Hub"

This seems overly complicated.

A few tags seem unnecessary or unclear:

"medical_service:outpatient=yes" - almost all hospitals offer
outpatient services.

"health_service:test=yes" - this is quite vague. It would be better to
use healthcare=laborator (as a node at the actual location of the
laboratory) or "hiv_test=yes" if only rapid HIV testing is offered
rather than a complete laboratory.

"health_facility:dispensary=yes" - if there is a pharmacy or a
dispensary, it would be better to tag this as "amenity=pharmacy" at
the actual location. I suppose if there is no pharmacist and it's just
a doctor's office or nurses who give out medications, then a shorter
tag like "dispensing=yes" would be proper to add to the clinic or
office. See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dispensing

"description=DOH HIV Treatment Hub" - it would be better to add this
as a tag, like "hiv_treatment_hub=yes" rather than use description

(I also would not add healthcare=clinic or healthcare=hospital - just
use amenity=hospital or amenity=clinic, no need to add a second tag
with the same meaning.)

-- Joseph Eisenberg

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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

2020-04-13 Thread Rory McCann

On 13.04.20 09:57, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

testing centers/clinics (testing only)

Is this a doctor's office, or is there just a nurse, or just a
laboratory technician who can draw blood for the test? If there is a
doctor, it might be an amenity=doctors. If there is just a laboratory
for testing, that would be a healthcare=laboratory facility.

What if there's HIV testing at a bar or nightclub? (I'm not joking.)
Blood gets taken, but not tested there. “This place does HIV tests
(between these hours)”. How would we tag that?

For the speciality, it's possible to use something like
healthcare:speciality=hiv if that's the only thing that the clinic
treats.

But here in Indonesia and back in the USA most clinics that treat HIV
also offer treatment for other infectious conditions, so a different
specialty like healthcare:speciality=infectious_diseases would usually
be more correct.

I see that in the Phillipines the tag "disease:hiv=yes" has been used:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disease%3Ahiv#map

In Indonesia and the USA you can get an HIV test at just about any
healthcare=laboratory and larger clinics and all hospitals. But if you
can only get this done at some specialized places in the Phillipines,
you could consider adding a tag like "hiv_testing=yes/no" for clinics,
doctor's offices, and laboratories.

Similarly, in the USA it's normal to be able to get hiv medications
from standard pharmacies.

I don't know about US or IN & HIV drugs, but at least the US has laws
allowing pharmacies to refuse to fulfill prescriptions for “religious
objection” (
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3amzp/in-these-states-pharmacists-can-refuse-to-fill-your-prescription-for-religious-beliefs
) . Now-a-days that's mostly abortion, but it might be relevant

“This pharmacy will/will not fill perscriptions for $TREATMENT” is
something we could map in OSM. How should we do that?

But if they are only available from a few

pharmacies in your country, you could add a tag like
"hiv_medication=yes/no" to an "amenity=pharmacy" facility.

It looks like "medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes" has been
used in combination. That seems overlong and complex, so it would not
have been my first choice:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/medical_service%3Aantiretroviral_therapy

`hiv_{treatment,medication}=*` could work, but a more general approach
might be nice...

I think one issue is that healthcare tagging in OSM is a big of a mess.
There's the `healthcare`, `medical_service`, `health_service`,
`health_facility` etc. Some are probably from imports where someone
makes up a new tagging scheme, causing further fragmentation and confusion.

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[Tagging] Things within things | Re: Request for assistance in creating a tag.

2020-04-13 Thread Rory McCann

I think this is a case of “Things within other things”. How do we map 
that? For the enclosing hospital, we know how to map that. But how do we 
map individual parts within it?

e.g. St. James' Hospital in Dublin (OSM: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32015912 ), the hospital has it's own 
phone number, `website` etc. Within that is a HIV (& STI) clinic 
http://guideclinic.ie/ It has it's own website, and a specific location. 
How should that be tagged?

Beumount Hospital ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22634348 ) has is 
mapped and tagged. The Infection Disease service ( 
http://www.beaumont.ie/index.jsp?p=105=227 ) is “located on the ground 
floor in St Johns ward”, and has a phone number & email address. How can 
we map this?

OSM could do much better for indoor mapping, and for shopping centres or 
train stations, that's easy. Add each `shop` or corridor. But what about 
a (sorta of) clinic within a larger OSM object?

On 13.04.20 10:48, Mikko Tamura wrote:
Thank you for the wonderful insights. Currently, what we are tagging is 
the hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a hospital) we 
add the tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a treatment facility 
and it dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am having difficulty is that 
hiv facility is treated like a department. You can put in the email 
address and contact details of the hospital but if I add the contact 
details of the Hiv facility it then gets mixed with the hospital details.
In this case A hospital can have a clinic specifically for HIV, and a 
clinic can also have a small office for HIV patients (not specifically 
another clinic).

Thanks Joseph and Warin most. of the cases are really similar here.

For treatment hubs - yes this is for inpatients similarly for the one 
you described. This is are mostly hospitals but in some cases clinics. 
My problem here is that a big hospital has alot of contact details for 
the hospital so the information and contact details for the hiv 
treatment facility are mixed.

For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I cant tagged it as 
a pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.

Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local OSM 
community in the Philippines.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)

But I feel the feature gets overshadowed by the hospital/clinic/social 
facility/office tag. Your thoughts would be very helpful.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:58 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 > Treatment hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing):

Are you sure you mean "inpatient?" An "inpatient" facility, in
American English, is a hospital which has beds where patients are
cared for overnight.

This would be mapped as amenity=hospital for the main feature, most
likely.

 > primary hiv care (dispensaries+testing)

You don't mention care by a nurse or physician, but I assume this is
an amenity=clinic (with physicians and nurses) which also has an
amenity=pharmacy in the same building. There might also be a
healthcare=laboratory at the location.

 > testing centers/clinics (testing only)

Is this a doctor's office, or is there just a nurse, or just a
laboratory technician who can draw blood for the test? If there is a
doctor, it might be an amenity=doctors. If there is just a laboratory
for testing, that would be a healthcare=laboratory facility.

For the speciality, it's possible to use something like
healthcare:speciality=hiv if that's the only thing that the clinic
treats.

But here in Indonesia and back in the USA most clinics that treat HIV
also offer treatment for other infectious  conditions, so a different
specialty like healthcare:speciality=infectious_diseases would usually
be more correct.

I see that in the Phillipines the tag "disease:hiv=yes" has been used:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disease%3Ahiv#map

In Indonesia and the USA you can get an HIV test at just about any
healthcare=laboratory and larger clinics and all hospitals. But if you
can only get this done at some specialized places in the Phillipines,
you could consider adding a tag like "hiv_testing=yes/no" for clinics,
doctor's offices, and laboratories.

Similarly, in the USA it's normal to be able to get hiv medications
from standard pharmacies. But if they are only available from a few
pharmacies in your country, you could add a tag like
"hiv_medication=yes/no" to an "amenity=pharmacy" facility.

It looks like "medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes" has been
used in combination. That seems overlong and complex,  so it would not
have been my first choice:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/medical_service%3Aantiretroviral_therapy

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com

Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

2020-04-13 Thread Mikko Tamura

Thank you for the wonderful insights. Currently, what we are tagging is the
hospital. So for example, Manila Hospital (tagged as a hospital) we add the
tags like disease:hiv=yes. say that it is a treatment facility and it
dispenses hiv medicine. But what i am having difficulty is that hiv
facility is treated like a department. You can put in the email address and
contact details of the hospital but if I add the contact details of the Hiv
facility it then gets mixed with the hospital details.

In this case A hospital can have a clinic specifically for HIV, and a
clinic can also have a small office for HIV patients (not specifically
another clinic).

Thanks Joseph and Warin most. of the cases are really similar here.

For treatment hubs - yes this is for inpatients similarly for the one you
described. This is are mostly hospitals but in some cases clinics. My
problem here is that a big hospital has alot of contact details for the
hospital so the information and contact details for the hiv treatment
facility are mixed.

For hiv care - yes it is a bit of all a combination. I cant tagged it as a
pharmacy as it only releases specific anti-retroviral drugs.

Currently We are using this tagging system as assisted by the local OSM
community in the Philippines.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HIV_Facilities_Tagging_(MapBeks)

But I feel the feature gets overshadowed by the hospital/clinic/social
facility/office tag. Your thoughts would be very helpful.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 3:58 PM Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> > Treatment hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing):
>
> Are you sure you mean "inpatient?" An "inpatient" facility, in
> American English, is a hospital which has beds where patients are
> cared for overnight.
>
> This would be mapped as amenity=hospital for the main feature, most likely.
>
> > primary hiv care (dispensaries+testing)
>
> You don't mention care by a nurse or physician, but I assume this is
> an amenity=clinic (with physicians and nurses) which also has an
> amenity=pharmacy in the same building. There might also be a
> healthcare=laboratory at the location.
>
> > testing centers/clinics (testing only)
>
> Is this a doctor's office, or is there just a nurse, or just a
> laboratory technician who can draw blood for the test? If there is a
> doctor, it might be an amenity=doctors. If there is just a laboratory
> for testing, that would be a healthcare=laboratory facility.
>
> For the speciality, it's possible to use something like
> healthcare:speciality=hiv if that's the only thing that the clinic
> treats.
>
> But here in Indonesia and back in the USA most clinics that treat HIV
> also offer treatment for other infectious  conditions, so a different
> specialty like healthcare:speciality=infectious_diseases would usually
> be more correct.
>
> I see that in the Phillipines the tag "disease:hiv=yes" has been used:
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disease%3Ahiv#map
>
> In Indonesia and the USA you can get an HIV test at just about any
> healthcare=laboratory and larger clinics and all hospitals. But if you
> can only get this done at some specialized places in the Phillipines,
> you could consider adding a tag like "hiv_testing=yes/no" for clinics,
> doctor's offices, and laboratories.
>
> Similarly, in the USA it's normal to be able to get hiv medications
> from standard pharmacies. But if they are only available from a few
> pharmacies in your country, you could add a tag like
> "hiv_medication=yes/no" to an "amenity=pharmacy" facility.
>
> It looks like "medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes" has been
> used in combination. That seems overlong and complex,  so it would not
> have been my first choice:
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/medical_service%3Aantiretroviral_therapy
>
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On 4/13/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > At present there is the key healtcare.
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare
> >
> > Some initial thoughts?
> >
> > healthcare:specialty=HIV_testing
> >
> > healthcare:specialty=HIV_treatment
> >
> > HIV dispensary ... would be a pharmacy?
> >
> > amenity =pharmacy and
> > dispensing =HIV
> >
> > ???Hopefully there will be better ideas.
> >
> > On 13/4/20 4:32 pm, Mikko Tamura wrote:
> >> Good day, fellow OSM tagging experts. I would like to ask assistance
> >> in creating a tag for HIV facilities. We have created a tagging system
> >> for hiv facilities here in the Philippines but it seems to be too
> >> extensive. We would like it to be more simple. I hope you can help me
> >> with it. I am reading the wiki page and Im having a challenging time
> >> doing it.
> >>
> >> Some background: We have 3 types of HIV facilities/clinics. Treatment
> >> hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing), primary hiv care
> >> (dispensaries+testing) and testing centers/clinics (testing only). We
> >> have

Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.

> Treatment hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing):

Are you sure you mean "inpatient?" An "inpatient" facility, in
American English, is a hospital which has beds where patients are
cared for overnight.

This would be mapped as amenity=hospital for the main feature, most likely.

> primary hiv care (dispensaries+testing)

You don't mention care by a nurse or physician, but I assume this is
an amenity=clinic (with physicians and nurses) which also has an
amenity=pharmacy in the same building. There might also be a
healthcare=laboratory at the location.

> testing centers/clinics (testing only)

Is this a doctor's office, or is there just a nurse, or just a
laboratory technician who can draw blood for the test? If there is a
doctor, it might be an amenity=doctors. If there is just a laboratory
for testing, that would be a healthcare=laboratory facility.

For the speciality, it's possible to use something like
healthcare:speciality=hiv if that's the only thing that the clinic
treats.

But here in Indonesia and back in the USA most clinics that treat HIV
also offer treatment for other infectious  conditions, so a different
specialty like healthcare:speciality=infectious_diseases would usually
be more correct.

I see that in the Phillipines the tag "disease:hiv=yes" has been used:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disease%3Ahiv#map

In Indonesia and the USA you can get an HIV test at just about any
healthcare=laboratory and larger clinics and all hospitals. But if you
can only get this done at some specialized places in the Phillipines,
you could consider adding a tag like "hiv_testing=yes/no" for clinics,
doctor's offices, and laboratories.

Similarly, in the USA it's normal to be able to get hiv medications
from standard pharmacies. But if they are only available from a few
pharmacies in your country, you could add a tag like
"hiv_medication=yes/no" to an "amenity=pharmacy" facility.

It looks like "medical_service:antiretroviral_therapy=yes" has been
used in combination. That seems overlong and complex,  so it would not
have been my first choice:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/medical_service%3Aantiretroviral_therapy

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On 4/13/20, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At present there is the key healtcare.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare
>
> Some initial thoughts?
>
> healthcare:specialty=HIV_testing
>
> healthcare:specialty=HIV_treatment
>
> HIV dispensary ... would be a pharmacy?
>
> amenity =pharmacy and
> dispensing =HIV
>
> ???Hopefully there will be better ideas.
>
> On 13/4/20 4:32 pm, Mikko Tamura wrote:
>> Good day, fellow OSM tagging experts. I would like to ask assistance
>> in creating a tag for HIV facilities. We have created a tagging system
>> for hiv facilities here in the Philippines but it seems to be too
>> extensive. We would like it to be more simple. I hope you can help me
>> with it. I am reading the wiki page and Im having a challenging time
>> doing it.
>>
>> Some background: We have 3 types of HIV facilities/clinics. Treatment
>> hubs (in patient + dispensaries+ testing), primary hiv care
>> (dispensaries+testing) and testing centers/clinics (testing only). We
>> have started tagging hospitals which have this features and honestly I
>> am guessing this would eventually get mixed up with the other tagging
>> like the contact number of the hospital, etc. Hopefully, we can
>> represent it with a node with basic details specifically for that
>> clinic/department.
>>
>> Hope someone can guide us and thank you in advance.
>> --
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *MIKKO L. TAMURA*
>> /*Administrator*/
>> /Map Beks Initiative/
>> /
>> /
>> /*Externals Head*/
>> /Pilipinas Chubs X Chasers/
>> /
>> /
>> /*Volunteer Mapper*/
>> /OpenStreetMap Philippines/
>> *Contact Number: +639052320416*
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] Request for assistance in creating a tag.