Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (shop=direct marketing)

[Paul Allen]

On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 at 00:48, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 22:38, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
>>
>> I can't find that in ID.  Is that the raw tag it produces or just the
>> name of
>> the preset that gives shop=farm?  When I use ID that preset identifies
>> itself as farm shop but ID may have localized that name for American
>> usage.
>>
>
> Sorry, yes, tagged as shop=farm which brought up the preset Produce Stand,
> which then even renders! (As an apple)
>

Here in the UK that preset says "Farm Shop" (and has an apple).

>
> Worked in Oz as well as US, so guess it's International?
>

Nope.  ID thinks you guys speak mostly Merkin.  Somebody will have copied
the Merkin language file for en_AU and maybe changed a few things.  Changed
BBQ to Barbie, stuff like that. :)

>
> Might have to start a separate thread re produce to stir things up ‽:-)
>

So you want to establish a reputation as a manure stirrer?  Feel free. :)

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (shop=direct marketing)

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 22:38, Paul Allen  wrote:

>
> I can't find that in ID.  Is that the raw tag it produces or just the name
> of
> the preset that gives shop=farm?  When I use ID that preset identifies
> itself as farm shop but ID may have localized that name for American
> usage.
>

Sorry, yes, tagged as shop=farm which brought up the preset Produce Stand,
which then even renders! (As an apple)

Worked in Oz as well as US, so guess it's International?

Good question.  One which will no doubt attract vehement opinions both
> ways. :)
>

I'm surprised they haven't appeared yet! :-)

Might have to start a separate thread re produce to stir things up ‽:-)

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - electricity:source

[François Lacombe]

Hi all

Thank you Lukas or this interesting proposal.
I second all comments about power physical source and origin distinction :
we're dealing with financial flows only. Using source for that may confuse
mappers and consumers.

As mentioned on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity:source,
original question is not about power source but its origin
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantee_of_origin (didn't see this link
here so far).

All the best

François

Le ven. 2 oct. 2020 à 08:56, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> a écrit :

> In that case you want to tag what is signed,
> not actual electricity source.
>
> marked_as_green_energy=*
>
> marked_as_renewable_energy=*
>
> is verifiable and does not require
> - impossible for mapper - verification
> of an actual energy source
>
>
> 29 wrz 2020, 22:28 od lrich...@posteo.de:
>
> Hi Colin,
>
> I agree that while a few suppliers source all of their electricity from
> renewable sources, most simply add a surcharge which is used to fund the
> growth of renewable energy infrastructure and price the electricity as if
> it were coming from solely renewable energy sources. I'm working on an
> article for Wikipedia that will explain green pricing tariffs in detail as
> this seems to be lacking in English.
>
> Arguing if the definiton of 'green electricity' is actually 'green' is not
> the point, this is already a term that is explicitly advertised at the
> charging stations or camp sites (see images in proposal) and also something
> that consumers look for as they want to fund renewable energies in the hope
> that all grid energy will be completely 'renewable' in future. While this
> obviously won't be for at least 15-50 years depending on who you ask, I
> think it is a worthwhile attribute to map as some people are conscious of
> what types of electricity generation they wish to support.
>
> Best, Lukas
>
>
> On 29/09/2020 16:56, Colin Smale wrote:
>
> Hi Lukas,
>
> You do realise that all electricity is the same, irrespective of how it is
> generated? The "greenness" or otherwise is not determined by the
> connection, but by the subscription/contract that the consumer has with
> their supplier.
>
> UNLESS they have a standalone generating capability, like PV or wind
> turbine that is not connected to the grid.
>
> On 2020-09-29 16:00, Lukas Richert wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to propose a new tag that defines the source of publicly
> available electricity: electricity:source
> 
>
> This could be used as an additional information tag on amenities that
> provide electricity for public consumption, such as bike/car charging
> stations or camp sites. Many charging stations have nearby solar or use
> green pricing tariffs. I've also seen camp sites and harbours advertise
> this.
>
> This topic came up as a group wanted to plan a bike tour using e-bikes but
> only with renewable energy. I noticed that there appears to be no easy way
> to filter for the source of the electricity provided.
>
> Potential discussion: It's not quite clear to me whether power_supply or
> electricity is preferred for this type of application. It might also be
> interesting for consumers to see which buildings are powered by green
> electricity if this is something a store or similar advertises. So it may
> be worth expanding the proposal to electricity used by the public even if
> not directly available (e.g. lighting in a store).
>
> Best regards,
> Lukas
>
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 133, Issue 10 message 3

[St Niklaas]

Hi Greame,
Manure, specially from horses, seems to be very healthy for roserays. I even 
have bought some from cows in the past. In 2 options get it delivered or take 
it away in your booth of the car. 
The direct delivery stands could evaluate into a so called automatic pay and 
open the box by the glass door, which could hold meat, milk or eggs aso.
Have fun and keep mapping.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (shop=direct marketing)

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Yes, but long term or regular presence
if road-side sale should be viable for
tagging.

3 paź 2020, 16:02 od pelder...@gmail.com:

> I think for tagging it should be more than the occasional road-side sale?
>
> Best, Peter Elderson
>
>
> Op za 3 okt. 2020 om 14:38 schreef Paul Allen <> pla16...@gmail.com> >:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 at 13:22, Martin Koppenhoefer <>> 
>> dieterdre...@gmail.com>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> shop=* seems ok for me.
>>>
>>
>> And for me.  There are "formal" shops which open only 2 days a week.  Or
>> have limited hours.  Or surly staff.  You go there and buy stuff, it's a 
>> shop.
>>  
>>
>>> Maybe “game” would be ok as value.
>>>
>>
>> I think not.  Too easy to confuse "game" and "games."  Better to use
>> shop=butcher + produce=game.
>>
>> -- 
>> Paul
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (shop=direct marketing)

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 06:46, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 09:32, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
>>
>> However, if we count that as a farm shop then the term essentially
>> becomes an alias of greengrocer.
>> A greengrocer with a single supplier, but still a greengrocer.
>>
>
> True, but under that theory, there's no difference between a convenience
> store & a supermarket.
>

Both convenience stores and supermarkets have a mix of big-name brands
and own-brand items.  The differences are size, hours and price.  I go
to the supermarket because it has a wider range and is cheaper but if
the supermarket is closed and I'm desperate I go to the convenience
store.

Returning to farm shops, a shop that is miles away from the farm and
is run by different people is, in my opinion, just a shop not a farm shop.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 10:23, Clifford Snow  wrote:
>
>>  OSM even has a nice icon for the business
>>
>
> Just tried mapping one & iD calls it a Produce Stand, which I guess could
> also be an alternative name, possibly as shop=produce_stand?
>

I can't find that in ID.  Is that the raw tag it produces or just the name
of
the preset that gives shop=farm?  When I use ID that preset identifies
itself as farm shop but ID may have localized that name for American
usage.  Or you've found something I haven't.

So, how should manure appear?
>
> produce=manure + manure=horse, or
>
> produce=horse_manure?
>

Good question.  One which will no doubt attract vehement opinions
both ways. :)

>
> There was a semi-related reference as a possible error (Sewage is not
> produce but a waste material. Try content
> =sewage
> ),
> but I don't think manure counts as sewage?
>

It depends what you do with it.  Both directions.  Many decades ago sewage
works here used to sell pelletized processed human waste as fertilizer.  I
think
that is now illegal, but I'm not sure.  Farms around here have to prevent
animal excrement contaminating waterways so have slurry pits.  If you
sell the stuff to put it on rose bushes it's manure; if you have to dispose
of it then it's sewage.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (shop=direct marketing)

[Paul Allen]

On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 at 04:36, stevea  wrote:

> On Oct 3, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Paul Allen  wrote:
> > Or maybe something like this?   https://www.facebook.com/TempleBarFarm/
> > I added the farm nearly a year ago.  Held off on adding what they call
> the
> > "farm shop" because it had recently moved from Llwynhelyg Farm across
> > the road, was still settling down (I wasn't sure if they were going to
> keep
> > it going for long) and (most importantly) I couldn't figure out where
> exactly it
> > was.
>
> That facebook page isn't exactly the best venue from which to make a
> determination of what this place is,


The textual content isn't very clear, but one of the images on that page
shows exactly what it is.


> but I get the gist of it, and yes, I'd call it a shop=farm, too.
> Clifford, we, too (Coastal central/northern California, heck, all of
> California as I grew up in southern) call these "farm stands" in local
> vernacular.
>

Yeah, that "shop" is a stand.  And "farm stand" is (according to Wikipedia)
the
common name for them in the US.  But it calls itself a farm shop.  In my
pre-mapping days I've seen a few stands like that around here, but haven't
been
past them in my mapping days toconfirm they're still there.  But I've also
mapped
a few farm shops that are dedicated buildings, or rooms  in a building,
such as
https://goo.gl/maps/UPQZRLzCCgyQdy548

I can see arguments for having shop=farm_stand.  A stand may have
less stock in reserve, you may have to wait longer for somebody to
notice you to serve you (I think some stands around here have an
honesty box, but I could be wrong).  OTOH a shop is a shop, and you
can get small shops with little stock except what is on the shelves, and
there's a single member of staff so you may have to wait for that
person to come back inside from a smoke break.  On the gripping
hand, we make a distinction for kiosks, being the type of small shop
you can't walk inside.

I can see arguments for and against shop=farm_stand.  I can't
make up my mind whether or not I'd support it.  It seems to
be a stand-in for something like shop_size=large|small.

BTW, I think I see why the original poster suggested direct_marketing.
On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_shop in the second
paragraph is "Direct sales to the consumer allow farmers to retain a larger
portion of the resulting profit [...]"

-- 
Paul
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