Re: [Tagging] [talk-ca] Liquidator store tagging

[Jherome Miguel]

My example is one that sells mostly clothes and dry goods from liquidated
retailers. I currently tagged it with shop=variety_store.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 2:32 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> is it selling specific type of products or everything from dried fruits
> through clothes
> and mugs to industrial solvents and cars?
>
>
> Dec 17, 2023, 23:03 by jheromemig...@gmail.com:
>
> any idea for which is the best tag for a liquidator store (one that sells
> goods from liquidated retailers)?
>
>
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[Tagging] Liquidator store tagging

[Jherome Miguel]

any idea for which is the best tag for a liquidator store (one that sells
goods from liquidated retailers)?
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Re: [Tagging] Power Tower Landuse = ?

[Jherome Miguel]

"Pylon" would be one common reference to transmission towers in the UK or
elsewhere in Europe, but that is not the case of the United States and
other parts of the world, where "pylon" means something different, that
"tower" is used instead. So, why not call transmission/power towers with
"tower", for others to understand.

And the presence of a transmission tower in agricultural land is, yes, do
not need the change of land use tag. But that will not be the case of
fenced-off towers, like what the author of this thread stated. Though
fenced transmission towers are rare in my country (as almost all of them do
not have ladders or stairs that may be accessed without authorization, that
will require a fence or phsical barrier to block access), tagging a
transmission tower where a fence or physical barrier at ground level is
present with the landuse=industrial (plus a proposed industry= tag) will
help indicate a different land use from the surrounding area.

--TagaSanPedroAko

On Jul 4, 2017 7:18 PM, "Philip Barnes"  wrote:



On 4 July 2017 11:07:04 BST, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:
>2017-07-04 1:56 GMT+02:00 John Willis :
>
>> it seems like other long-term infrastructure (power towers,
>communication
>> towers) are suggested to be landuse=industrial.
>>
>> I really think there should be some kind of subtag then, because not
>only
>> can you define what and why you are tagging, but it allows presets to
>be
>> easily created in iD and searched by new taggers.
>>
>> industrial=power, industrial=communication, etc.
>>
>
>
>I agree that a formalization of industrial subtags would be really
>desirable. There are many different kind of things that get this same
>landuse property, e.g. warehouses, production facilities, logistical
>infrastructure (ports, distribution centres, ...).
>
>For the German context (but likely also for other places), there should
>be
>also a distinction for "light industry" (Gewerbe).
>
>Then it seems strange we don't have yet a standardized list of typical
>top
>level categories (e.g. automotive, textile, semiconductors,
>electronics,
>energy, machinery, mining, ...)
>
The correct English term is pylon.

Although I am a little confused by the purpose of this thread, the presence
of pylons does not in my experience change the landuse, if they cross
farmland the land beneath them is still farmland or in the case of this
photo natural=wood.

https://flic.kr/p/V8pLyS


Phil (trigpoint)



-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [Tagging] Power Tower Landuse = ?

[Jherome Miguel]

Though I came lately here, I agree. Indicating the type of industrial area
will help indicate the industry where the piece of land is used.

--TagaSanPedroAko

On Jul 4, 2017 6:08 PM, "Martin Koppenhoefer" 
wrote:

>
> 2017-07-04 1:56 GMT+02:00 John Willis :
>
>> it seems like other long-term infrastructure (power towers, communication
>> towers) are suggested to be landuse=industrial.
>>
>> I really think there should be some kind of subtag then, because not only
>> can you define what and why you are tagging, but it allows presets to be
>> easily created in iD and searched by new taggers.
>>
>> industrial=power, industrial=communication, etc.
>>
>
>
> I agree that a formalization of industrial subtags would be really
> desirable. There are many different kind of things that get this same
> landuse property, e.g. warehouses, production facilities, logistical
> infrastructure (ports, distribution centres, ...).
>
> For the German context (but likely also for other places), there should be
> also a distinction for "light industry" (Gewerbe).
>
> Then it seems strange we don't have yet a standardized list of typical top
> level categories (e.g. automotive, textile, semiconductors, electronics,
> energy, machinery, mining, ...)
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Multiple transformers

[Jherome Miguel]

It is quite the same case as like this three pole-mounted transformer bank
in the Philippines. (
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:0016jfjfEDSA_Taft_Avenue_MRT_Station_LRT_Footbridge_Pasay_Cityfvf_14.jpg
)

And for the photo Tristan referred, it is like the one from Wikimedia
Commons that I referred, and it is actually a three-phase transformer bank

They usually do not look like being independent from each other, and
usually, the primary, secondary, or both are connected, and transformer
banks are used to supply three-phase power where single-phase transformers
are primarily used, like in the United States, Canada, the Philippines,
Japan, and South Korea, and those countries primarily use single-phase
distribution, either two-wire or three-wire. And three-phase systems are
usually for large customers. Two, three, or more transformers on one pole
used to supply single-phase and independent of each other, however, is
somewhat difficult to map.

Mapping each transformer in a transformer bank may be appropriate for the
larger ones used in substations, usually for extra high voltages (345 kV,
380 kV, 400 kV, 500 kV, 735 kV, 750 kV, 765 kV) and AC-DC conversion in
HVDC converter stations, but it is not appropriate for a pole-mounted bank.
For those mounted on poles, I came up with using the transformer_bank= tag
instead, yet, that still needs to be approved. You may include it in your
proposal on transformers, if possible.


On Apr 15, 2017 4:56 AM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi Tristan,

TL;DR : no

I can't see your picture but I assume the transformers are fed by two
different phases and serve the same area, it's surely a bank and
TagaSanPedroAko have some nice ideas there
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer

If it's two independant transformers, supplying power to separate districts
or subscribers, then it's currently difficult to use the same object and
you may use as many nodes as transformers around a pole

This problem rises for antennas on masts/tower. No nice solution so far.


All the best in power devices mapping :)

François

2017-04-14 19:44 GMT+02:00 Tristan Anderson :

> Is there a way to indicate that a power pole has multiple transformers
> such as this one?
>
> http://oi65.tinypic.com/2rfu8ly.jpg
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

I am extending the voting for one more week, until April 11. There are
still 4 votes, and about 4 or more votes are needed. While there are many
approves, a few or more is still needed.

Link to voting for power pole extension:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension#Voting
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Re: [Tagging] Starbucks or Starbucks Coffee

[Jherome Miguel]

Why long names appear on Starbucks stores in Japan when seen on Google Maps
is that the data there is from a third-party map provider, i.e. ZENRIN.
Google discourages such locators as messy, like what you stated, and
descriptive, but they kept the data from ZENRIN as they are on the
original, though the map data may conflict with Google Maps POI naming
guidelines.

Apple Maps seem to use ZENRIN map data for Japan, but they cleaned up chain
store POI names, shortening them to the brand name only . That will be good
practice on mapping, to better use the short name or brand of a chain of
stores instead of the long name, that the companies use.

Going back to the problem with mapping Starbuck stores in OpenStreetMap, I
agree, and the point here is selecting the name on a case-by-case basis,
that is, choosing between the name on the signage or the name used by most
people. Starbucks stores may mostly use "Starbucks Coffee" on outdoor
signage, but people will rather call it "Starbucks", and the prevailing
local/colloquial name will be more preferred, if people will search the map
using the prevailing local term.

"official_name" will be mostly the legal name of the store owner or the
legal name of the operator/franchisee, but I am not certain if long names
including store locators may fit. And the wiki documentation does not
explicitly state where "official_name" applies, so, discussing what names
can be tagged with that tag may be necessary, but on a new thread at the
tagging email list, as that is off topic.

"brand" will be the brand the store owner uses, and it may overlap with the
name, if that is the name used on signs also.

On Mar 21, 2017 5:39 AM, "John Willis"  wrote:


On Mar 21, 2017, at 5:42 AM, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:

I'm all for "Starbucks" in the same vein that we tag "Chipotle" not
"Chipotle Mexican Grill".


+1

I am not sure how "brand" and "official_name" work into it, but usually the
store's name is not just "Starbucks coffee" - it usually has the place it
is part of in it's title - Starbucks [town] [mall] - in my area it would be
"Starbucks Power Mall Maebashi Minami". That is what it says it he name of
the store is on their store locator, and that naming information gets
passed down to the search and mapping sites.

https://www.starbucks.co.jp/store/search/detail.php?id=1034

"パワーモール前橋みなみ店"
=> "Power Mall Maebashi Minami [location]"

I usually put that into "official_name:en=" and put "Starbucks" into the
name:en=field.

But I do know there is also the "brand" tag to help deal with places (like
chains) that are signed the same. Perhaps the answer lies in that
combination - but I am unsure of how it works.

Apple Maps uses short "brand" names and sticks with "Starbucks", while
Google Maps lists out the gigantic names for every single shop, so Japanese
Google Maps POI pins at a mall are super-messy and unreadable.

Javbw.

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Re: [Tagging] Discouraging frequency=* on power lines and cables

[Jherome Miguel]

Though busy, I will share my opinion on tagging frequency on power lines,
and also the use of power route relations

On Mar 9, 2017 5:40 PM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi David,

2017-03-09 6:35 GMT+01:00 David Marchal :

>
> > Le 8 mars 2017 à 23:04, Michael Reichert  a écrit :
> >
> > Please keep OSM simple. I don't want to add a power route relation on
> > every tiny minor distribution line/cable (230 V).
> >
> Totally agree with that. I don’t understand the usage of a relation
> binding the distribution network elements: the connections between them can
> be retrieved from the nodes and ways,

Not always:
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/74150+Rumilly/@45.
8717133,5.9644766,3a,64.8y,288.41h,97.09t/data=!3m4!1e1!
3m2!1sc9ie9WHjYs2bM-s5jagK9g!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x478b9d830296190d:
0x1ef1a2064da6b8cf

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2560701992

Here you would connect all lines while they are actually not, and sometimes
the two apparently independent circuits are actually connected at such
points. No general rule regarding this.
No relations are currently setup in my example but we'll need to.


Distribution lines tend to have that complicated connections than the main
transmission lines, as in the case you used, that is a distribution line
branching out from its main circuit via a tap connection. And tapping is
very common on distribution systems, and ways to isolate the branch in case
of power line issues on the main line where the branch is connected is
through mechancal switches or fuse cutouts. Switches will see use on a
power line segment connected to another circuit in a distribution system
with a radial configuration, but may also appear on higher voltage lines,
where they are opened to isolate loads from the main line in case of faults
or line repairs. Fuse cutouts are rather limited to distribution systems,
and are used to isolate a power line segment from the main line in cases of
overcurrent or long voltage spikes, but will not isolate a power line
during line repair, unless linemen open them using insulated sticks.
Indicating switches or fuse cutouts on a distribution circuit may be useful
on power route relations, when assuming that power distributors use the
data to locate portions of the circuits having faults, or loads temporarily
disconnected for line repairs.



> and the relation would merely be use for group tagging. IMHO, the relation
> would only make sense for transport lines, which are often viewed and
> treated as continuous, even if their characteristics change along their
> path (overhead, underground…). At a distribution level, however, this
> sounds overkill to me.
>
Distribution networks change more often between overhead and underground,
and seems more messy than a A-to-B transmission lines
Have you seen this example ?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6087750

By the way, you aren't forced at all to make relations if you don't want
to, right ?
You can join the discussion ongoing on : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_routing_proposal

All the best


And yes,distribution systems will have the most variations in location,
either overhead, undergound, or underwater. And while it may occur on
distribution systems whose primary lines run in the open countryside
instead on the roads, like those in Europe, they are the same on countries
where such systems have the primary lines run beside roads or railways,
like those in the Americas and most of Asia, but on an urban area, these
will usually be found on tunnels accessible via manholes. And finding
underground power lines are difficult, unless markers (like manholes or
signage) or knowledge from working as a lineman wil help you find their
routes. But, it's still fine to add underground or underwater power cables
on a power route relation, especially when assuming that utilities or
transmission system operators will use the data on the relation to find the
specific circuit or line where a line or cable needs repair.


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

Okay, okay, RMS and peak are not the same. Now, move on to the main topic,
power poles.

Well, what is called a power pole here in OSM is primarily a wood,
concrete, or steel pole, usually with a cross-arm. But looking deeper in
the real world, power poles have more designs aside from the usual design
with one cross-arm supported by brackets, especially when giving regard to
lines beside roads (as it seems that OSM has its power distribution
infrastructure focused on lines in dedicated right-of-way, which is
primarily found in Europe, but distribution lines is primarily found beside
roads in most of Asia, Oceania, and the Americas). There are poles with two
or more cross-arms supporting multiple circuits, poles with no cross-arm
(insulators are on the pole itself), and poles holding high voltage lines
(usually called subtransmission lines, common in North America, Australia,
and some Asian countries, like the Philippines and Thailand). And do you
agree that poles has other designs aside from the usual design composed of
the pole and cross-arm, if you will refer to personal knowledge of power
lines? And for the design names (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension),
is it better to base them on the existing design values at the power tower
page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power=tower#Tower_designs),
with additional tags, like "armless_asymmetric" and "armless_triangle",
variants of the asymmetric and triangle designs, which is used to refer to
those used with cross-arms, but for the cases mentioned, these have the
insulators placed on the pole instead on cross-arms? And, do the "flag"
design all right to use on a pole with no cross-arms and the insulators
placed on one side of the pole, just like the same description of the same
design on a power=tower?

On Feb 16, 2017 1:03 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 16-Feb-17 01:00 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:

The RMS voltage of an alternating-current electrical source is the
direct-current voltage that would supply the same power into a resistive
load. That is to say, imagine you have an AC power source operating a
heating element, and a DC power source operating an identical heating
element. The DC connection powers the heating element continuously. The AC
signal starts at zero volts, increases to a peak, then decreases back to
zero. Then it does that again, to a negative voltage (the electrons flow in
the opposite direction). The heating element doesn't care which direction
the electrons are flowing; both directions produce the same amount of
heat.  If the net heat production from the AC-powered heating element is
the same as the net heat production from the DC-powered element, then the
Root Mean Square voltage of the AC power source is the same as the constant
DC voltage from the DC power source.

Off topic warning.
Johns definition above is correct ..
These are fundamental to any electrical person.
The AC voltage can be stated in various ways .. where the statement of
voltage does not include rms, peak or peak to peak most people would take
the statement as being rms.

>From a simple maths viewpoint:

The relationship of RMS (route mean squared), peak and peak to peak are
very well defined mathematically for a pure sine wave;

peak to peak = peak x 2
RMS = peak x 0.707 (or the reciprocal of the square route of two, if you
need more digits)

Thus 220 v RMS will be 311 v peak and 622 v peak to peak.

220 v RMS single phase voltage system resolves into a 3 phase system of
381 v RMS, as the 220 v is from one line to neutral, where as the 3 phase
voltage is from one line to the other.

Again there is a simple mathematical vector relationship between the single
phase and the 3 phase voltages.


On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" <fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@45
.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4
!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.
2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q
!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2a
e4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
<https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" <fl.infosrese...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@45
.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4
!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.
2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-
I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0
x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
<https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1>
To traction substation : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,
15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwS
RQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2a
e4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
<https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1>


For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380,
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", which
is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of
the system


Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage.
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years at an
international level. Now they agree that their present tolerances encompass
an agreed range ... that encompasses all those voltages.


Possibly you think the peak voltage is the line-line voltage, right, while
RMS voltage is line-neutral voltage. Is that correct?

Meters seem to have varying ways on showing the rated voltages the meter
measures, that they may only show RMS voltage or peak-to-peak voltage, or
both. On countries using single-phase or split-phase distribution (most of
the Americas, and some Asian countries), either the RMS or peak-to-peak are
shown on the meter's rated voltage, while on countries primarily using
three-phase distribution (usually 230/400 volts), the meter shows only RMS
voltage for an ordinary single-phase customer, but on others requiring
three-phase for other applications, the meter shows both RMS and
peak-to-peak.

And on my mapping work on Philippine power networks, with the RMS voltage
being 220 volts, a single-phase transformer may have a single-phase
(line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line) secondary. For a
single-phase transformer with a single phase secondary, common used by
provincial electric cooperatives, I use the RMS voltage of 220 as default,
but for a split-phase one, usually in areas served by private utilities, it
defaults to 440 volts (peak-to-peak), though the meter used for measuring
is rated by the RMS voltage of 220 volts (240 volts on the meter's labels,
fortunately, it is within the tolerance of 220-240 volts)

And on voltage tolerances, 220 volts is within tolerance of the 220-240
volt range, so does 110 or 120 volts being within the tolerance of the
100-127 volt range.

), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the province
usually served by electric cooperatives, but the three-wire system is used
on areas served by major private electric utilities (Meralco, Visayas
Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light and Power, etc.)

Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro Manila transit systems
only), is rather DC only, fed from the three-phase distribution systems,
transformed to the traction voltage, then rectified to DC. No AC traction
systems still exists in the Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the
future on new lines or mainline electrification.




> A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is
> unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one
> phase.
> Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a
> requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.
>
+1 same here, 3-

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@
45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!
3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/
place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.
5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!
1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:
0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
To traction substation : https://www.google.fr/maps/
place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.
5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!
1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:
0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1


For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380,
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", which
is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of
the system), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the
province usually served by electric cooperatives, but the three-wire system
is used on areas served by major private electric utilities (Meralco,
Visayas Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light and Power, etc.)


Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro Manila transit systems
only), is rather DC only, fed from the three-phase distribution systems,
transformed to the traction voltage, then rectified to DC. No AC traction
systems still exists in the Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the
future on new lines or mainline electrification.




> A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is
> unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one
> phase.
> Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a
> requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.
>
+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend to disapear while current usage
is single phase + neutral pole.

I concur. Single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line) is
the primary household distribution systems, while a household customer on
an area primarily using single-phase, but requiring three-phase needs a
separate transformer, at least the line has the phases required, otherwise,
the customer would require the nearby distribution line to have the
additional wires and the dedicated transformer, or use a phase converter.

Single-phase supplies by households may be derived from a three-phase line,
but a single-phase line may do. The single-phase transformers may have one
or two primaries (though one bushing is connected to ground instead on
another phase wire and serves as a surge arrestor, like the case of
transformers used to provide 220 volt single-phase power in most provinces
of the Philippines), but the secondaries may be single-phase (line-neutral)
or split-phase (line-neutral-line). Single-phase (line-neutral) may use a
transformer with one or two bushings (the latter has the second bushing
being a surge arrestor, being connected to ground instead on another
primary), but for split-phase (line-neutral-line), the transformer may have
one or two primary bushings, but on the case of two bushings, the second
one may be connected to another phase or ground.



> Transformers will have an input voltage and an output voltage, usually
> these voltages are different.
>

Sure, currently voltage=* expects a list with upper voltage;lower voltage.
Or voltage-up and voltage-down can be used. I'm in favor of voltage:primary
+ voltage:secondary (+ voltage:tertiary if transformer got more than 2
interfaces).
Another proposal will be completed later for this.


> Most of the time these voltages will be on the lines connected to the
> transformer (and the pole) and would be redundant.
>
Yes they have to, but a pole can carry several lines or circuits in the
same line. If lines/circuits are operated at different voltages, which one
will serve the transformer(s) exactly ?
Furthermore, even if a single line is supported by the pole, which side of
the transformer is connected to it ?
I'm thinking of a pole carrying a "low voltage" line used for distribution,
hosting a transformer at the top of it and the transformer gets its power
from an underground "high voltage" cable rising up on the pole itself. Then
you'll need to know the voltages of both cable and line AND the voltages of
transformer's sides to say the overhead "low voltage" line is 

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

This is the second RFC I sent the proposal for an extended tagging of power
poles. I sent a previous RFC, but with no comments requested.

The goal of the power pole extension proposal is to extend the tagging of
power poles, which has limited tags and allow the use of power=pole on
power=line with a voltage of at most 138,000 volts (where very tall poles
above the mentioned voltage falls on power=tower).

Link to proposal at the wiki:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension

Any comments requested, as this is the second RFC after the first one did
not have any response at all.
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[Tagging] Feature Tagging - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension

Add other details on power poles, like design, type, and other details
(pole holds a street light, pole is supported by a guy wire or stay. Also,
this proposal will raise the highest voltage of a power line where supports
may be tagged as pole from 50,000 volts to 138,000 volts
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