Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
Il giorno 13/ago/2014, alle ore 15:36, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de ha scritto: I think it should be website:payment:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:website:bitcoin=yes I think this makes sense for things like Wikidata, where you then have architect=* and architect:wikidata=* grouped together, but with payment it would be better to have all the payment= options grouped together. I think the Website details like which are the accepted payment methods, who is the registrar, since when is there a website etc. do not belong in OSM. We are not a database for websites, we only store an website attribute for real places. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
Since payment:bitcoin=yes is a de facto and used tag and since payment:website:bitcoin=yes is not, I would suggest a combined usage of payment:bitcoin=yes and payment:website:bitcoin=yes until the new tag is chosen by more mappers for their use cases. I'm considering using the combination for the moment so that backwards compatibility is maintained. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
Anita, Frankly a large majority of the bitcoin edits are unauthorized (and probably copyright violating) imports. Discussions of website allowing bitcoin seem to fall in that same category. There have been few complaints but I think it's inevitable that if the imports continue, someone will complain and the DWG would be asked to step in. So I'd say unless you visit a store and know for sure they take bitcoin there, leave it out. - Serge On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com wrote: Since payment:bitcoin=yes is a de facto and used tag and since payment:website:bitcoin=yes is not, I would suggest a combined usage of payment:bitcoin=yes and payment:website:bitcoin=yes until the new tag is chosen by more mappers for their use cases. I'm considering using the combination for the moment so that backwards compatibility is maintained. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
payment:bitcoin=yes is a de facto tag for a store that accepts Bitcoin AT THE POINT OF SALE, like all other payment=* tags. What you do is redefine its meaning to it in some way accepts Bitcoin somewhere. payment:website:bitcoin=yes on its own is fine. payment:website:bitcoin=only would probably be even better for this purpose. I'm considering using the combination for the moment so that backwards compatibility is maintained. Except that that combination is not backward compatibile as explained above. And you don't even solve the problem, that a map displaying payment:bitcoin=yes might not actually accept it at the point of sale. Since payment:bitcoin=yes is a de facto and used tag and since payment:website:bitcoin=yes is not, I would suggest a combined usage of payment:bitcoin=yes and payment:website:bitcoin=yes until the new tag is chosen by more mappers for their use cases. I'm considering using the combination for the moment so that backwards compatibility is maintained. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
No, that's a bad idea. I believe there's a clear consensus that payment:bitcoin=yes is not a proper tag for a shop that doesn't accept bitcoin at its physical location. /Markus On 14 August 2014 12:53, Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com wrote: Since payment:bitcoin=yes is a de facto and used tag and since payment:website:bitcoin=yes is not, I would suggest a combined usage of payment:bitcoin=yes and payment:website:bitcoin=yes until the new tag is chosen by more mappers for their use cases. I'm considering using the combination for the moment so that backwards compatibility is maintained. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
On 14/08/2014 13:19, Markus Lindholm wrote: No, that's a bad idea. I believe there's a clear consensus that payment:bitcoin=yes is not a proper tag for a shop that doesn't accept bitcoin at its physical location. I'd fully agree with that. Most of the bitcoin taggers seem just to be using OSM for a form of SEO and to appear on Coinmap - they don't seem interested in recording anything other than the magic word bitcoin or even recording those details accurately. I am aware of exactly one brick-and-mortar business that allegedly takes bitcoin(1), and I've never seen anyone actually paying with it there. Cheers, Andy (1) http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/25285250 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
+1 for not using payment:bitcoin=yes if bitcoin is not accepted at the point of sale. It shouldn't be a problem for Coinmap to add payment:website:bitcoin=yes as a new kind of pin. And it would probably make it a much better map. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Exactly, we are not tagging websites. Some websites are connected to the ground which we map. They are physical stores on ground, you can go in there if you visit Sweden at some point. The payment is done on the website. To get your product you have to be in the store you ordered it for. 1. Pay in Bitcoin at Webhallen 2. Be in the store where you ordered your product ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
2014-08-12 20:55 GMT+02:00 Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com: One idea that got proposed was payment:online:bitcoin=yes/no + payment:offline:bitcoin=yes/no where online=purchase through website and where offline=cash register/Point of sale Any ideas? If you are going to tag online payment methods (and I'm not 100% sure that's ok for this database) then I would use payment:online:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:bitcoin=yes. Payment:xxx=* is a tag reserved for offline payment methods, so you can look at it as though it already has the offline tag. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
Janko Mihelić wrote: If you are going to tag online payment methods (and I'm not 100% sure that's ok for this database) then I would use payment:online:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:bitcoin=yes. Payment:xxx=* is a tag reserved for offline payment methods, so you can look at it as though it already has the offline tag. One idea that came up at the CoinMap thread was payment:website:bitcoin=yes After that payment is made you pick up the goods at a location. If that location is a normal store where you get to the cash registers/Points of sale like everybody else does to get their products for whatever currency they chose to pay with then I think that place should be tagged with payment:website:bitcoin=yes The payment goes through the website, then I get my products at the company's cash registers/Points of sale.(as mentioned above, like everybody else does) What do you all think about payment:website:bitcoin=yes? That payment is then tied to the shop's physical store/stores in contrast to stores where the payment is not tied to any location at all(in case of delivery=only) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
I'm ok with that. A shop that has online Bitcoin paying: shop=computer + payment:website:bitcoin=yes + website=http://www.shop.com An office of a website without a cash register: office=e-commerce + e-commerce=computer + payment:website:bitcoin=yes + website=http://www.shop.com A shop with Bitcoin payment at the point of sale: shop=computer + payment:bitcoin=yes I think this is an ok scheme. 2014-08-13 13:57 GMT+02:00 Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com: Janko Mihelić wrote: If you are going to tag online payment methods (and I'm not 100% sure that's ok for this database) then I would use payment:online:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:bitcoin=yes. Payment:xxx=* is a tag reserved for offline payment methods, so you can look at it as though it already has the offline tag. One idea that came up at the CoinMap thread was payment:website:bitcoin=yes After that payment is made you pick up the goods at a location. If that location is a normal store where you get to the cash registers/Points of sale like everybody else does to get their products for whatever currency they chose to pay with then I think that place should be tagged with payment:website:bitcoin=yes The payment goes through the website, then I get my products at the company's cash registers/Points of sale.(as mentioned above, like everybody else does) What do you all think about payment:website:bitcoin=yes? That payment is then tied to the shop's physical store/stores in contrast to stores where the payment is not tied to any location at all(in case of delivery=only) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
I think it should be website:payment:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:website:bitcoin=yes 2014-08-13 9:20 GMT-03:00 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com: I'm ok with that. A shop that has online Bitcoin paying: shop=computer + payment:website:bitcoin=yes + website=http://www.shop.com An office of a website without a cash register: office=e-commerce + e-commerce=computer + payment:website:bitcoin=yes + website=http://www.shop.com A shop with Bitcoin payment at the point of sale: shop=computer + payment:bitcoin=yes I think this is an ok scheme. 2014-08-13 13:57 GMT+02:00 Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com: Janko Mihelić wrote: If you are going to tag online payment methods (and I'm not 100% sure that's ok for this database) then I would use payment:online:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:bitcoin=yes. Payment:xxx=* is a tag reserved for offline payment methods, so you can look at it as though it already has the offline tag. One idea that came up at the CoinMap thread was payment:website:bitcoin=yes After that payment is made you pick up the goods at a location. If that location is a normal store where you get to the cash registers/Points of sale like everybody else does to get their products for whatever currency they chose to pay with then I think that place should be tagged with payment:website:bitcoin=yes The payment goes through the website, then I get my products at the company's cash registers/Points of sale.(as mentioned above, like everybody else does) What do you all think about payment:website:bitcoin=yes? That payment is then tied to the shop's physical store/stores in contrast to stores where the payment is not tied to any location at all(in case of delivery=only) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
But if a shop doesn't accept a certain payment method at its physical location then I don't think it should be tagged that way even if they have a website where that payment method is valid. So what about delivery services? They guy delivering the pizza to your house might take different payments than the restaurant. And the website where you order it might again take different ones. Also with smartphones these days there might not even be a clear transition. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
My reasoning is that payment:bitcoin=yes is a general tag which means that payment is accepted at the store. In my opinion if there is no additional information then all the payment tags imply point of sale. Otherwise I would also have to tag a store that takes credit cards with payment:credit_cards=yes + payment:point_of_sale:credit_cards=yes __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
2014-08-13 15:12 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de: But if a shop doesn't accept a certain payment method at its physical location then I don't think it should be tagged that way even if they have a website where that payment method is valid. So what about delivery services? They guy delivering the pizza to your house might take different payments than the restaurant. And the website where you order it might again take different ones. Also with smartphones these days there might not even be a clear transition. Shops that only offer delivery services might have tags: office=pizza_delivery + payment:cash_on_delivery=yes. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
I think it should be website:payment:bitcoin=yes instead of payment:website:bitcoin=yes I think this makes sense for things like Wikidata, where you then have architect=* and architect:wikidata=* grouped together, but with payment it would be better to have all the payment= options grouped together. I think this is also easier for mappers, because then I don't have to look at the bottom for website:payment and at the top for delivery:payment, but just have payment=, payment:website= and payment:delivery=* next to each other. Payment:xxx=* is a tag reserved for offline payment methods The problem is that it isn't blackwhite. For example payment via a phone number or smartphone app could be both. So I would say payment=yes, payment:credit_cards=yes etc. should be offline by default, but payment key itself should not be limited to that. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
2014-08-13 15:36 GMT+02:00 Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de: The problem is that it isn't blackwhite. For example payment via a phone number or smartphone app could be both. So I would say payment=yes, payment:credit_cards=yes etc. should be offline by default, but payment key itself should not be limited to that. What I meant to say was not offline, but at the point of sale. So payment:currency=* and payment:credit_cards=* is at the point of sale. If you want something other than at the point of sale, we can add something in between, payment:website:credit_card=* or maybe payment:delivery:credit_card=* and so on. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
In Sweden we got an electronics chain called Webhallen who accept Bitcoin as payment through their website and allows the customer to pick up the goods they purchase at any of the business's store locations. It does to my knowledge not accept purchase of goods with Bitcoin through their cash registers or Points of sale. I would just tag each and all of those stores with payment:bitcoin=yes Some in the Swedish osm community find it confusing to find out at CoinMap.org that a business accepts Bitcoin but does not accept it at the cash register/Point of sale. One in the Swedish osm community told me that he/she asked a question at a Webhallen store at Sveavägen 39 where the personnel replied that they do not accept Bitcoin at the cash registers/Points of sale of that store. More in the osm community want a way to tag that a store accepts payment in Bitcoin only through their website and not at a cash register/Point of sale, vice versa or any combination thereof. One idea that got proposed was payment:online:bitcoin=yes/no + payment:offline:bitcoin=yes/no where online=purchase through website and where offline=cash register/Point of sale Any ideas? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
On 8/12/14 2:55 PM, Anita Andersson wrote: One idea that got proposed was payment:online:bitcoin=yes/no + payment:offline:bitcoin=yes/no where online=purchase through website and where offline=cash register/Point of sale why not payment:point_of_sale:bitcoin=yes/no payment:offline doesn't seem quite right to me. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
Richard Welty wrote: why not payment:point_of_sale:bitcoin=yes/no payment:offline doesn't seem quite right to me. Ok. My idea is that payment:bitcoin=yes and payment:point_of_sale:bitcoin=yes/no should be used together if it is correct information for a place. My reasoning is that payment:bitcoin=yes is a general tag which means that payment is accepted at the store. payment:point_of_sale:bitcoin=yes/no further means if the store accepts Bitcoin at the cash register/Point of sale or not. What in the case if they accept it both at the cash register/Point of sale and through their website? Do we add both the payment:point_of_sale:bitcoin=yes and 'payment:online:bitcoin=yes?' ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
On 12 August 2014 20:55, Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com wrote: In Sweden we got an electronics chain called Webhallen who accept Bitcoin as payment through their website and allows the customer to pick up the goods they purchase at any of the business's store locations. It does to my knowledge not accept purchase of goods with Bitcoin through their cash registers or Points of sale. I would just tag each and all of those stores with payment:bitcoin=yes I think that OSM is about mapping the physical world out there, even including payment methods accepted at different brick and mortar shops. But if a shop doesn't accept a certain payment method at its physical location then I don't think it should be tagged that way even if they have a website where that payment method is valid. /Markus ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Bitcoin: Distinction of purchase through website and cash register/Point of sale
2014-08-12 22:54 GMT+02:00 Markus Lindholm markus.lindh...@gmail.com: On 12 August 2014 20:55, Anita Andersson cc0c...@gmx.com wrote: In Sweden we got an electronics chain called Webhallen who accept Bitcoin as payment through their website and allows the customer to pick up the goods they purchase at any of the business's store locations. It does to my knowledge not accept purchase of goods with Bitcoin through their cash registers or Points of sale. I would just tag each and all of those stores with payment:bitcoin=yes I think that OSM is about mapping the physical world out there, even including payment methods accepted at different brick and mortar shops. But if a shop doesn't accept a certain payment method at its physical location then I don't think it should be tagged that way even if they have a website where that payment method is valid. /Markus ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Exactly, we are not tagging websites. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
