Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - No votes for proposals opening_hours_holiday_select and opening_hours_open_until
On 08.04.2014 11:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-04-07 22:11 GMT+02:00 Robin `ypid` Schneider ypi...@aol.de: I created two proposals for which the time to vote is over but there are no votes :(. Should we open the voting once again or what is the usual procedure in such a case? The proposals are: of course you can reput this to voting, but if there wasn't interest the first time it might continue to be like this also the second time. Did you advertize your proposals on tagging, local ML etc.? It might also be that there wasn't enough marketing for your proposals to draw the attention of potential voters. As noted on the proposal pages, both proposals where properly announced on the tagging list and discussed. I did not make further advertisements because of the participation I saw on the mailing list. In detail I have looked at your proposals now, and like to comment: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_holiday_select IMHO it would be useful to have a list (also the beginning of a list) of possible values to make this more useful for documentation purposes. Usually spaces are substituted by underscores in formal values and no capitalization occurs. Maybe it could also be made more explicit that this is an _only_ condition (not sure if makes sense). The naming schema was the one which had been used by Netzwolf originally (in the source code). It is also the one which I got from the import of all school holidays in Germany (with https://github.com/ypid/opening_hours.js/blob/master/convert_ical_to_json). Changing that format can be discussed. Personally I don‘t think that it is necessary about if I am the only one we can change that of course ;) I guess the syntax is ok. The few who need it or come across this syntax could hopefully understand it (or try it out: http://openingh.openstreetmap.de/evaluation_tool/) or read the documentation or the proposal. the other one: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_open_until seems not to specifiy how this missing information (opening time) should be interpreted / is defined. What does it mean if there is a social club or say a disco with opening_hours=-17:00 will it be open at 5 in the morning? At noon? Or in your example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/370126261/history -20:00 can I have breakfast there? Or eat at 11:30? Or at 16:00? IMHO almost useless to put this onto some object. Better ask them when they usually open and add this. If there i I totally agree with you but the values do appear in OSM and I wanted to hear opinions from other mappers about this. Just asking them (the owners of a facility) sounds like the best idea. Maybe add a opening_hours comment for notes and hints. More details have already been discussed in much more detail on the tagging mailing list: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2014-February/016559.html cheers, Martin My own opinion about these two proposal is that I fully support the opening_hours_holiday_select proposal. The opening_hours_open_until proposal on the other hand was created to talk about this issue and maybe find an solution. -- Live long and prosper Robin Schneider ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - No votes for proposals opening_hours_holiday_select and opening_hours_open_until
On 07.04.2014 22:34, Stephan Knauss wrote: Hi Robin, On 07.04.2014 22:11, Robin `ypid` Schneider wrote: I created two proposals for which the time to vote is over but there are no votes :(. Should we open the voting once again or what is the usual procedure in such a case? The proposals are: that voting for a proposal is nothing more than a rough indication of the opinion of the people actually stated their opinion. You could have asked at your local regular's table, in the forum or the mailing list. Sadly, my time is limited. Unfortunately I don‘t find much time for OSM at the moment but I try to support this awesome project with doing one thing and doing it well (which in my case is ... opening_hours ;) ). I know that writing an proposal and the real OSM data can and does differ in many cases. But even with that in mind, it is still a good idea to have a new feature documented somewhere, even if the feature is not very common. It's just a different tool to do the community communication process of getting a common understanding about the meaning of specific tags. If no one is interested in your tags, then probably it's of no use to the community. And we're too much of a Do-ocracy in this case. No one is interested in people solving problems which only exist in theory. If your tool can evaluate a specific patter, then do it and document it. If it's reasonable then people will follow that tagging. If not a discussion will arise in the future. Sounds good. I did this already but then I learned about the proposal process and it worked quite well in the past: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_open_end_fixed_time_extension But if no one (or only a few) are interested in the topics I came currently across that is ok. It helps if there are pages on the wiki where a issue was already documented and some solution where introduced. I would imagine most people would handle places without a specific opening hour similar I would do. If it's not possible to specify some core hours which are certainly open, I would not specify at all. It's simply not possible to evaluate it automatically with a reasonable effort. So if a business refuses to tell me when they're open, then they have to accept that software giving hints about open now won't list them. Similar to the open as long as customers are there closing time... Sure but if they say you that they are only open during specific school holidays ;) This goes in the same direction as the question „Is this worth it?“ (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/opening_hours_open_until) which I did try to answer there. Stephan -- Live long and prosper Robin Schneider ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - No votes for proposals opening_hours_holiday_select and opening_hours_open_until
2014-04-07 22:11 GMT+02:00 Robin `ypid` Schneider ypi...@aol.de: I created two proposals for which the time to vote is over but there are no votes :(. Should we open the voting once again or what is the usual procedure in such a case? The proposals are: of course you can reput this to voting, but if there wasn't interest the first time it might continue to be like this also the second time. Did you advertize your proposals on tagging, local ML etc.? It might also be that there wasn't enough marketing for your proposals to draw the attention of potential voters. In detail I have looked at your proposals now, and like to comment: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_holiday_select IMHO it would be useful to have a list (also the beginning of a list) of possible values to make this more useful for documentation purposes. Usually spaces are substituted by underscores in formal values and no capitalization occurs. Maybe it could also be made more explicit that this is an _only_ condition (not sure if makes sense). the other one: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_open_until seems not to specifiy how this missing information (opening time) should be interpreted / is defined. What does it mean if there is a social club or say a disco with opening_hours=-17:00 will it be open at 5 in the morning? At noon? Or in your example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/370126261/history -20:00 can I have breakfast there? Or eat at 11:30? Or at 16:00? IMHO almost useless to put this onto some object. Better ask them when they usually open and add this. If there i cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature Proposal - No votes for proposals opening_hours_holiday_select and opening_hours_open_until
Hi I created two proposals for which the time to vote is over but there are no votes :(. Should we open the voting once again or what is the usual procedure in such a case? The proposals are: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_holiday_select http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/opening_hours_open_until -- Live long and prosper Robin Schneider ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - No votes for proposals opening_hours_holiday_select and opening_hours_open_until
Hi Robin, On 07.04.2014 22:11, Robin `ypid` Schneider wrote: I created two proposals for which the time to vote is over but there are no votes :(. Should we open the voting once again or what is the usual procedure in such a case? The proposals are: that voting for a proposal is nothing more than a rough indication of the opinion of the people actually stated their opinion. You could have asked at your local regular's table, in the forum or the mailing list. It's just a different tool to do the community communication process of getting a common understanding about the meaning of specific tags. If no one is interested in your tags, then probably it's of no use to the community. And we're too much of a Do-ocracy in this case. No one is interested in people solving problems which only exist in theory. If your tool can evaluate a specific patter, then do it and document it. If it's reasonable then people will follow that tagging. If not a discussion will arise in the future. I would imagine most people would handle places without a specific opening hour similar I would do. If it's not possible to specify some core hours which are certainly open, I would not specify at all. It's simply not possible to evaluate it automatically with a reasonable effort. So if a business refuses to tell me when they're open, then they have to accept that software giving hints about open now won't list them. Similar to the open as long as customers are there closing time... Stephan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
