Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

Okay, okay, RMS and peak are not the same. Now, move on to the main topic,
power poles.

Well, what is called a power pole here in OSM is primarily a wood,
concrete, or steel pole, usually with a cross-arm. But looking deeper in
the real world, power poles have more designs aside from the usual design
with one cross-arm supported by brackets, especially when giving regard to
lines beside roads (as it seems that OSM has its power distribution
infrastructure focused on lines in dedicated right-of-way, which is
primarily found in Europe, but distribution lines is primarily found beside
roads in most of Asia, Oceania, and the Americas). There are poles with two
or more cross-arms supporting multiple circuits, poles with no cross-arm
(insulators are on the pole itself), and poles holding high voltage lines
(usually called subtransmission lines, common in North America, Australia,
and some Asian countries, like the Philippines and Thailand). And do you
agree that poles has other designs aside from the usual design composed of
the pole and cross-arm, if you will refer to personal knowledge of power
lines? And for the design names (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension),
is it better to base them on the existing design values at the power tower
page (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power=tower#Tower_designs),
with additional tags, like "armless_asymmetric" and "armless_triangle",
variants of the asymmetric and triangle designs, which is used to refer to
those used with cross-arms, but for the cases mentioned, these have the
insulators placed on the pole instead on cross-arms? And, do the "flag"
design all right to use on a pole with no cross-arms and the insulators
placed on one side of the pole, just like the same description of the same
design on a power=tower?

On Feb 16, 2017 1:03 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 16-Feb-17 01:00 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:

The RMS voltage of an alternating-current electrical source is the
direct-current voltage that would supply the same power into a resistive
load. That is to say, imagine you have an AC power source operating a
heating element, and a DC power source operating an identical heating
element. The DC connection powers the heating element continuously. The AC
signal starts at zero volts, increases to a peak, then decreases back to
zero. Then it does that again, to a negative voltage (the electrons flow in
the opposite direction). The heating element doesn't care which direction
the electrons are flowing; both directions produce the same amount of
heat.  If the net heat production from the AC-powered heating element is
the same as the net heat production from the DC-powered element, then the
Root Mean Square voltage of the AC power source is the same as the constant
DC voltage from the DC power source.

Off topic warning.
Johns definition above is correct ..
These are fundamental to any electrical person.
The AC voltage can be stated in various ways .. where the statement of
voltage does not include rms, peak or peak to peak most people would take
the statement as being rms.

>From a simple maths viewpoint:

The relationship of RMS (route mean squared), peak and peak to peak are
very well defined mathematically for a pure sine wave;

peak to peak = peak x 2
RMS = peak x 0.707 (or the reciprocal of the square route of two, if you
need more digits)

Thus 220 v RMS will be 311 v peak and 622 v peak to peak.

220 v RMS single phase voltage system resolves into a 3 phase system of
381 v RMS, as the 220 v is from one line to neutral, where as the 3 phase
voltage is from one line to the other.

Again there is a simple mathematical vector relationship between the single
phase and the 3 phase voltages.


On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@45
.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4
!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.
2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q
!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2a
e4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1

To traction substation : 

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Warin]

On 16-Feb-17 01:00 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote:


The RMS voltage of an alternating-current electrical source is the 
direct-current voltage that would supply the same power into a 
resistive load. That is to say, imagine you have an AC power source 
operating a heating element, and a DC power source operating an 
identical heating element. The DC connection powers the heating 
element continuously. The AC signal starts at zero volts, increases to 
a peak, then decreases back to zero. Then it does that again, to a 
negative voltage (the electrons flow in the opposite direction). The 
heating element doesn't care which direction the electrons are 
flowing; both directions produce the same amount of heat.  If the net 
heat production from the AC-powered heating element is the same as the 
net heat production from the DC-powered element, then the Root Mean 
Square voltage of the AC power source is the same as the constant DC 
voltage from the DC power source.




Off topic warning.
Johns definition above is correct ..
These are fundamental to any electrical person.
The AC voltage can be stated in various ways .. where the statement of 
voltage does not include rms, peak or peak to peak most people would 
take the statement as being rms.


From a simple maths viewpoint:

The relationship of RMS (route mean squared), peak and peak to peak are 
very well defined mathematically for a pure sine wave;


peak to peak = peak x 2
RMS = peak x 0.707 (or the reciprocal of the square route of two, if you 
need more digits)


Thus 220 v RMS will be 311 v peak and 622 v peak to peak.

220 v RMS single phase voltage system resolves into a 3 phase system of  
381 v RMS, as the 220 v is from one line to neutral, where as the 3 
phase voltage is from one line to the other.


Again there is a simple mathematical vector relationship between the 
single phase and the 3 phase voltages.




On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe"
> wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
>:


In Australia;
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.


Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry :

https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1



2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases
each) :
From public power grid :

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1


To traction substation :

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1




For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for
large commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase
(220/380, 220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others,
all 60 Hz). Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220
volts) or three-wire systems (220/440 volts, though electricity
meters show "240 volts", which is within the tolerance of 220
volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of the system


Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage.
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years
at an international level. Now they agree that their present
tolerances encompass an agreed range ... that encompasses all
those voltages.


Possibly you think the peak voltage is the line-line voltage, right, 
while RMS voltage is line-neutral voltage. Is that correct?



No. See the above.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[John F. Eldredge]

The RMS voltage of an alternating-current electrical source is the 
direct-current voltage that would supply the same power into a resistive 
load. That is to say, imagine you have an AC power source operating a 
heating element, and a DC power source operating an identical heating 
element. The DC connection powers the heating element continuously. The AC 
signal starts at zero volts, increases to a peak, then decreases back to 
zero. Then it does that again, to a negative voltage (the electrons flow in 
the opposite direction). The heating element doesn't care which direction 
the electrons are flowing; both directions produce the same amount of heat. 
If the net heat production from the AC-powered heating element is the same 
as the net heat production from the DC-powered element, then the Root Mean 
Square voltage of the AC power source is the same as the constant DC 
voltage from the DC power source.




On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:



In Australia;
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.



Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@45
.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4
!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :

From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla

ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.
2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-
I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0
x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1

To traction substation : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,
15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwS
RQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2a
e4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1



For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380,
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", which
is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of
the system


Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage.
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years at an
international level. Now they agree that their present tolerances encompass
an agreed range ... that encompasses all those voltages.


Possibly you think the peak voltage is the line-line voltage, right, while
RMS voltage is line-neutral voltage. Is that correct?

Meters seem to have varying ways on showing the rated voltages the meter
measures, that they may only show RMS voltage or peak-to-peak voltage, or
both. On countries using single-phase or split-phase distribution (most of
the Americas, and some Asian countries), either the RMS or peak-to-peak are
shown on the meter's rated voltage, while on countries primarily using
three-phase distribution (usually 230/400 volts), the meter shows only RMS
voltage for an ordinary single-phase customer, but on others requiring
three-phase for other applications, the meter shows both RMS and
peak-to-peak.

And on my mapping work on Philippine power networks, with the RMS voltage
being 220 volts, a single-phase transformer may have a single-phase
(line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line) secondary. For a
single-phase transformer with a single phase secondary, common used by
provincial electric cooperatives, I use the RMS voltage of 220 as default,
but for a split-phase one, usually in areas served by private utilities, it
defaults to 440 volts (peak-to-peak), though the meter used for measuring
is rated by the RMS voltage of 220 volts (240 volts on the meter's labels,
fortunately, it is within the tolerance of 220-240 volts)

And on voltage tolerances, 220 volts is within tolerance of the 220-240
volt range, so does 110 or 120 volts being within the tolerance of the
100-127 volt range.

), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the province
usually served by 

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[François Lacombe]

2017-02-15 9:33 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> Not certain what elaboration you need? Isolation ...is simply turning a
> line off, for maintenance/repair.
> Switches on poles tend to be manual (mechanical). Switches in substations
> and stations tend to be automatic.
>

Ok I agree
I wasn't sure of what you meant with isolation.

Actually, even thoses isolation mechanical switches can be automated as
said (with radio, landlines or whatever)

All the best


François
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@45
.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4
!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.
2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-
I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0
x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1

To traction substation : https://www.google.fr/maps/pla
ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,
15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwS
RQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2a
e4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1



For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380,
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", which
is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of
the system


Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage.
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years at an
international level. Now they agree that their present tolerances encompass
an agreed range ... that encompasses all those voltages.


Possibly you think the peak voltage is the line-line voltage, right, while
RMS voltage is line-neutral voltage. Is that correct?

Meters seem to have varying ways on showing the rated voltages the meter
measures, that they may only show RMS voltage or peak-to-peak voltage, or
both. On countries using single-phase or split-phase distribution (most of
the Americas, and some Asian countries), either the RMS or peak-to-peak are
shown on the meter's rated voltage, while on countries primarily using
three-phase distribution (usually 230/400 volts), the meter shows only RMS
voltage for an ordinary single-phase customer, but on others requiring
three-phase for other applications, the meter shows both RMS and
peak-to-peak.

And on my mapping work on Philippine power networks, with the RMS voltage
being 220 volts, a single-phase transformer may have a single-phase
(line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line) secondary. For a
single-phase transformer with a single phase secondary, common used by
provincial electric cooperatives, I use the RMS voltage of 220 as default,
but for a split-phase one, usually in areas served by private utilities, it
defaults to 440 volts (peak-to-peak), though the meter used for measuring
is rated by the RMS voltage of 220 volts (240 volts on the meter's labels,
fortunately, it is within the tolerance of 220-240 volts)

And on voltage tolerances, 220 volts is within tolerance of the 220-240
volt range, so does 110 or 120 volts being within the tolerance of the
100-127 volt range.

), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the province
usually served by electric cooperatives, but the three-wire system is used
on areas served by major private electric utilities (Meralco, Visayas
Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light and Power, etc.)

Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro Manila transit systems
only), is rather DC only, fed from the three-phase distribution systems,
transformed to the traction voltage, then rectified to DC. No AC traction
systems still exists in the Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the
future on new lines or mainline electrification.




> A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is
> unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one
> phase.
> Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a
> requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.
>
+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend to disapear while current usage
is single phase + neutral pole.

I 

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Warin]

On 15-Feb-17 05:52 PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:



On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" > wrote:


Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
>:


In Australia;
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.


Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry :

https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1



2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
From public power grid :

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1


To traction substation :

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1




For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large 
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380, 
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz). 
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire 
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", 
which is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one 
phase wire of the system


Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the peak voltage.
The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed for many years at an 
international level. Now they agree that their present tolerances 
encompass an agreed range ... that encompasses all those voltages.


), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the 
province usually served by electric cooperatives, but the three-wire 
system is used on areas served by major private electric utilities 
(Meralco, Visayas Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light 
and Power, etc.)


Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro Manila transit 
systems only), is rather DC only, fed from the three-phase 
distribution systems, transformed to the traction voltage, then 
rectified to DC. No AC traction systems still exists in the 
Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the future on new lines or 
mainline electrification.



A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large ..
but it is unusual and a safety concern, no single room should
have more than one phase.
Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop
has a requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.

+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend to disapear while
current usage is single phase + neutral pole.

I concur. Single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase 
(line-neutral-line) is the primary household distribution systems, 
while a household customer on an area primarily using single-phase, 
but requiring three-phase needs a separate transformer, at least the 
line has the phases required, otherwise, the customer would require 
the nearby distribution line to have the additional wires and the 
dedicated transformer, or use a phase converter.


Single-phase supplies by households may be derived from a three-phase 
line, but a single-phase line may do. The single-phase transformers 
may have one or two primaries (though one bushing is connected to 
ground instead on another phase wire and serves as a surge arrestor, 
like the case of transformers used to provide 220 volt single-phase 
power in most provinces of the Philippines), but the secondaries may 
be single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line). 
Single-phase (line-neutral) may use a transformer with one or two 
bushings (the latter has the second bushing being a surge arrestor, 
being connected to ground instead on another primary), but for 
split-phase (line-neutral-line), the transformer may have one or two 
primary bushings, but on the case of two 

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

On Feb 13, 2017 4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" 
wrote:

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry : https://www.google.fr/maps/@
45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!
3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid : https://www.google.fr/maps/
place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.
5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!
1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:
0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
To traction substation : https://www.google.fr/maps/
place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.
5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!
1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:
0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1


For the Philippines, two or three phases for the primary are for large
commercial customers, but the output, it is three-phase (220/380,
220/380/440, 440/760, 660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
Households use single-phase, either two-wire (220 volts) or three-wire
systems (220/440 volts, though electricity meters show "240 volts", which
is within the tolerance of 220 volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of
the system), depending on location. The two-wire system is common on the
province usually served by electric cooperatives, but the three-wire system
is used on areas served by major private electric utilities (Meralco,
Visayas Electric Company/VECO, Davao Light, Cotabato Light and Power, etc.)


Traction power in the Philippines (for the Metro Manila transit systems
only), is rather DC only, fed from the three-phase distribution systems,
transformed to the traction voltage, then rectified to DC. No AC traction
systems still exists in the Philippines, but perhaps, may be used in the
future on new lines or mainline electrification.




> A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is
> unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one
> phase.
> Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a
> requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.
>
+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend to disapear while current usage
is single phase + neutral pole.

I concur. Single-phase (line-neutral) or split-phase (line-neutral-line) is
the primary household distribution systems, while a household customer on
an area primarily using single-phase, but requiring three-phase needs a
separate transformer, at least the line has the phases required, otherwise,
the customer would require the nearby distribution line to have the
additional wires and the dedicated transformer, or use a phase converter.

Single-phase supplies by households may be derived from a three-phase line,
but a single-phase line may do. The single-phase transformers may have one
or two primaries (though one bushing is connected to ground instead on
another phase wire and serves as a surge arrestor, like the case of
transformers used to provide 220 volt single-phase power in most provinces
of the Philippines), but the secondaries may be single-phase (line-neutral)
or split-phase (line-neutral-line). Single-phase (line-neutral) may use a
transformer with one or two bushings (the latter has the second bushing
being a surge arrestor, being connected to ground instead on another
primary), but for split-phase (line-neutral-line), the transformer may have
one or two primary bushings, but on the case of two bushings, the second
one may be connected to another phase or ground.



> Transformers will have an input voltage and an output voltage, usually
> these voltages are different.
>

Sure, currently voltage=* expects a list with upper voltage;lower voltage.
Or voltage-up and voltage-down can be used. I'm in favor of voltage:primary
+ voltage:secondary (+ voltage:tertiary if transformer got more than 2
interfaces).
Another proposal will be completed later for this.


> Most of the time these voltages will be on the lines connected to the
> transformer (and the pole) and would be redundant.
>
Yes they have to, but a pole can carry several lines or circuits in the
same line. If lines/circuits are operated at different voltages, which one
will serve the transformer(s) exactly ?
Furthermore, even if a single line is supported by the pole, which side of
the transformer is connected to it ?
I'm thinking of a pole carrying a "low voltage" line used for distribution,
hosting a transformer at the top of it and the transformer gets its power
from an underground "high voltage" cable rising up on the pole itself. Then
you'll need to know the voltages of both cable and line AND the voltages of
transformer's sides to say the overhead "low voltage" line is 

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[François Lacombe]

Hi Warin,

2017-02-13 8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
> In Australia;
> Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
>

Same in Europe, 2-phases or 3-phases depends on needs.
Here 3-phases for heavy industry :
https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

2-phases for train traction (2 separate circuits of 2 phases each) :
>From public power grid :
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1
To traction substation :
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.344886!6m1!1e1



> A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is
> unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one
> phase.
> Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a
> requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.
>
+1 same here, 3-phases fed households tend to disapear while current usage
is single phase + neutral pole.


> Transformers will have an input voltage and an output voltage, usually
> these voltages are different.
>

Sure, currently voltage=* expects a list with upper voltage;lower voltage.
Or voltage-up and voltage-down can be used. I'm in favor of voltage:primary
+ voltage:secondary (+ voltage:tertiary if transformer got more than 2
interfaces).
Another proposal will be completed later for this.


> Most of the time these voltages will be on the lines connected to the
> transformer (and the pole) and would be redundant.
>
Yes they have to, but a pole can carry several lines or circuits in the
same line. If lines/circuits are operated at different voltages, which one
will serve the transformer(s) exactly ?
Furthermore, even if a single line is supported by the pole, which side of
the transformer is connected to it ?
I'm thinking of a pole carrying a "low voltage" line used for distribution,
hosting a transformer at the top of it and the transformer gets its power
from an underground "high voltage" cable rising up on the pole itself. Then
you'll need to know the voltages of both cable and line AND the voltages of
transformer's sides to say the overhead "low voltage" line is fed wheter by
the primary or secondary interface.

It's a bit complex and I see no redundancy here.


>
> Switches ... usually used for isolation.
>

Can you elaborate a bit more please ?


All the best 


François
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Warin]

On 13-Feb-17 06:09 PM, François Lacombe wrote:

Hi,

Thank you Jherome for this clarification attempt.
No objection against mixing poles and tower on any lines.

Regarding the phase=2 discussion, phases=* have a clear definition.
Occidental countries usualy have 3-phases power grids, but sometimes, 
2 phases lines are used to feed train traction substations or heavy 
industries. It's not about a single phase line with neutral pole + 1 
live cable, it's 2 live cables often taken from 3-phases substation or 
line.


In Australia;
Heavy industry gets 3 phases.
A few houses may get 2 phases if their load is very large .. but it is 
unusual and a safety concern, no single room should have more than one 
phase.
Even fewer houses get 3 phase .. usually where the workshop has a 
requirement for a 3 phase motor/furnace.


According to the picture used, this is the correct value : the 
transformer has 2 cables from a 3-phases line (without neutral pole) 
connected to its primary side.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Bridleway%2C_Atwick_-_geograph.org.uk_-_386117.jpg

Furthermore, I'm wondering what's the best tagging regarding 
transformers or switches installed on top of power poles/towers :

power=pole
transformer=distribution
voltage=...
phases=...

or

power=pole
transformer=distribution
transformer:phases=...
transformer:voltage=...

Looking forward to your comments


Transformers will have an input voltage and an output voltage, usually 
these voltages are different.
Most of the time these voltages will be on the lines connected to the 
transformer (and the pole) and would be redundant.


Switches ... usually used for isolation.




All the best

*François Lacombe*

fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com
www.infos-reseaux.com <http://www.infos-reseaux.com>
@InfosReseaux <http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux>

2017-02-13 1:39 GMT+01:00 Tristan Anderson 
<andersontris...@hotmail.com <mailto:andersontris...@hotmail.com>>:


There's an intersting discussion about this here:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer>


Here it is suggested that split single-phase power be tagged as
phases=2.  I disagree with this, and instead advocate tagging it
as phases=1 voltage=240.  In North America at least, this implies
split single-phase power.  The tag phases=2 should be reserved for
the rare instances (maybe not so rare in some parts of the world?)
where actual two-phase power is present.


Either way, this needs to be standardized and whatever decision we
come to needs to be made clear on the wiki pages for
power=transformer and the new power pole extension proposal.


*From:* Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com
<mailto:kevin.b.kenny%2b...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* February 12, 2017 7:14 PM
*To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
    *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole
extension
I think I've seen two-phase power once, in a commercial building
in Philadelphia, built around 1905. All the high-power uses (HVAC,
mostly) in the building were actually driven off 208 or 480 volt
three-phase, provided by phase-converting transformers and switch
gear. There were a handful 240-volt circuits that were stepped
down (or tapped?) from the 480, and a lot of the lighting was run
off the 277-volt phase-to-neutral of the 480 circuits. The
building electricians regarded the two-phase four-wire power as a
damned nuisance.

Two-phase is surely uncommon in the US, while split-single-phase
is ubiquitous.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mike Thompson
<miketh...@gmail.com <mailto:miketh...@gmail.com>> wrote:



On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
<mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:


If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it
simply means we won't see any instances of the tag
phases=2, just like how we'll never see phases=17.  It
doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the
tagging scheme.  I believe this is a good proposal that
should be voted on.



There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to
avoid American mappers misusing this tag for 240v split
single phase.

That is my concern. This is a typical mistake.

 I think there will be instances of phase=2 occurring in
the USA, possibly many instances.

Do you mean instances of the tag phase=2, or actual two phase
power?



Instance of the tag phase=2 misused.

__

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[François Lacombe]

Hi,

Thank you Jherome for this clarification attempt.
No objection against mixing poles and tower on any lines.

Regarding the phase=2 discussion, phases=* have a clear definition.
Occidental countries usualy have 3-phases power grids, but sometimes, 2
phases lines are used to feed train traction substations or heavy
industries. It's not about a single phase line with neutral pole + 1 live
cable, it's 2 live cables often taken from 3-phases substation or line.
According to the picture used, this is the correct value : the transformer
has 2 cables from a 3-phases line (without neutral pole) connected to its
primary side.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Bridleway%2C_Atwick_-_geograph.org.uk_-_386117.jpg

Furthermore, I'm wondering what's the best tagging regarding transformers
or switches installed on top of power poles/towers :
power=pole
transformer=distribution
voltage=...
phases=...

or

power=pole
transformer=distribution
transformer:phases=...
transformer:voltage=...

Looking forward to your comments


All the best

*François Lacombe*

fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com
www.infos-reseaux.com
@InfosReseaux <http://www.twitter.com/InfosReseaux>

2017-02-13 1:39 GMT+01:00 Tristan Anderson <andersontris...@hotmail.com>:

> There's an intersting discussion about this here:
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer
>
>
> Here it is suggested that split single-phase power be tagged as phases=2.
> I disagree with this, and instead advocate tagging it as phases=1
> voltage=240.  In North America at least, this implies split single-phase
> power.  The tag phases=2 should be reserved for the rare instances (maybe
> not so rare in some parts of the world?) where actual two-phase power is
> present.
>
>
> Either way, this needs to be standardized and whatever decision we come to
> needs to be made clear on the wiki pages for power=transformer and the new
> power pole extension proposal.
> --
> *From:* Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* February 12, 2017 7:14 PM
> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension
>
> I think I've seen two-phase power once, in a commercial building in
> Philadelphia, built around 1905. All the high-power uses (HVAC, mostly) in
> the building were actually driven off 208 or 480 volt three-phase, provided
> by phase-converting transformers and switch gear. There were a handful
> 240-volt circuits that were stepped down (or tapped?) from the 480, and a
> lot of the lighting was run off the 277-volt phase-to-neutral of the 480
> circuits. The building electricians regarded the two-phase four-wire power
> as a damned nuisance.
>
> Two-phase is surely uncommon in the US, while split-single-phase is
> ubiquitous.
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mike Thompson <miketh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>> If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it simply means we
>>> won't see any instances of the tag phases=2, just like how we'll never see
>>> phases=17.  It doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the tagging
>>> scheme.  I believe this is a good proposal that should be voted on.
>>>
>>>
>>> There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to avoid American
>>> mappers misusing this tag for 240v split single phase.
>>>
>> That is my concern. This is a typical mistake.
>>
>>>  I think there will be instances of phase=2 occurring in the USA,
>>> possibly many instances.
>>>
>> Do you mean instances of the tag phase=2, or actual two phase power?
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Tristan Anderson]

There's an intersting discussion about this here:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:power%3Dtransformer


Here it is suggested that split single-phase power be tagged as phases=2.  I 
disagree with this, and instead advocate tagging it as phases=1 voltage=240.  
In North America at least, this implies split single-phase power.  The tag 
phases=2 should be reserved for the rare instances (maybe not so rare in some 
parts of the world?) where actual two-phase power is present.


Either way, this needs to be standardized and whatever decision we come to 
needs to be made clear on the wiki pages for power=transformer and the new 
power pole extension proposal.


From: Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>
Sent: February 12, 2017 7:14 PM
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

I think I've seen two-phase power once, in a commercial building in 
Philadelphia, built around 1905. All the high-power uses (HVAC, mostly) in the 
building were actually driven off 208 or 480 volt three-phase, provided by 
phase-converting transformers and switch gear. There were a handful 240-volt 
circuits that were stepped down (or tapped?) from the 480, and a lot of the 
lighting was run off the 277-volt phase-to-neutral of the 480 circuits. The 
building electricians regarded the two-phase four-wire power as a damned 
nuisance.

Two-phase is surely uncommon in the US, while split-single-phase is ubiquitous.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mike Thompson 
<miketh...@gmail.com<mailto:miketh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Warin 
<61sundow...@gmail.com<mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:

If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it simply means we won't 
see any instances of the tag phases=2, just like how we'll never see phases=17. 
 It doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the tagging scheme.  I 
believe this is a good proposal that should be voted on.


There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to avoid American 
mappers misusing this tag for 240v split single phase.

That is my concern. This is a typical mistake.

 I think there will be instances of phase=2 occurring in the USA, possibly many 
instances.

Do you mean instances of the tag phase=2, or actual two phase power?


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Kevin Kenny]

I think I've seen two-phase power once, in a commercial building in
Philadelphia, built around 1905. All the high-power uses (HVAC, mostly) in
the building were actually driven off 208 or 480 volt three-phase, provided
by phase-converting transformers and switch gear. There were a handful
240-volt circuits that were stepped down (or tapped?) from the 480, and a
lot of the lighting was run off the 277-volt phase-to-neutral of the 480
circuits. The building electricians regarded the two-phase four-wire power
as a damned nuisance.

Two-phase is surely uncommon in the US, while split-single-phase is
ubiquitous.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:
>>
>> If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it simply means we
>> won't see any instances of the tag phases=2, just like how we'll never see
>> phases=17.  It doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the tagging
>> scheme.  I believe this is a good proposal that should be voted on.
>>
>>
>> There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to avoid American
>> mappers misusing this tag for 240v split single phase.
>>
> That is my concern. This is a typical mistake.
>
>>  I think there will be instances of phase=2 occurring in the USA,
>> possibly many instances.
>>
> Do you mean instances of the tag phase=2, or actual two phase power?
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Mike Thompson]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:
>
> If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it simply means we
> won't see any instances of the tag phases=2, just like how we'll never see
> phases=17.  It doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the tagging
> scheme.  I believe this is a good proposal that should be voted on.
>
>
> There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to avoid American
> mappers misusing this tag for 240v split single phase.
>
That is my concern. This is a typical mistake.

>  I think there will be instances of phase=2 occurring in the USA, possibly
> many instances.
>
Do you mean instances of the tag phase=2, or actual two phase power?
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Warin]

On 13-Feb-17 10:25 AM, Tristan Anderson wrote:


If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it simply means we 
won't see any instances of the tag phases=2, just like how we'll never 
see phases=17.  It doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the 
tagging scheme.  I believe this is a good proposal that should be 
voted on.




There will need to be very careful wording of phases=2 to avoid American 
mappers misusing this tag for 240v split single phase. This is common 
household wiring for 'hi power' ... 115 v 10 a only gets you 1.15 kw .. 
so for things like stoves 240 v is required. I think there will be 
instances of phase=2 occurring in the USA, possibly many instances.





*From:* Mike Thompson <miketh...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* February 12, 2017 6:07 PM
*To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
*Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension
After a little digging, it seems that there *was* at one time such a 
thing as two phase electric power, with the phases 90 degrees apart[1]


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power>

Two-phase electric power - Wikipedia 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power>

en.wikipedia.org
Two-phase electrical power was an early 20th-century polyphase 
alternating current electric power distribution system. Two circuits 
were used, with voltage phases ...






On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
<mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com>> wrote:



I think the incorrect term '2 phase' is the split single phase (or
single phase 3 wire) that the Americans use, 120 v  from 'neutral'
to either line but 240 v from line to line and that 240 v is
termed '2 phase' despite the fact that it is a single phase. All
of these lines are supposed to float - no connection to earth is
supposed to be made.





 On 13-Feb-17 07:27 AM, ajt1...@gmail.com
<mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/02/2017 20:07, Mike Thompson wrote:

Jherome,

...  Having spent some time in the electrical industry (in
the U.S.) my understanding is there is no such thing as "2
phase", only single phase and three phase.



In terms of supply to premises, you're going to get single
phase or 3-phase, but I think that you can still get minor
power lines carrying just 2 phases (e.g. to 2 houses, each
single phase) can't you?

Best Regards,

Andy

(who hasn't actually done any 3-phase wiring in 40 years, so
it might have changed a bit since then!)


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Tristan Anderson]

If two-phase power isn't currently in use anywhere, it simply means we won't 
see any instances of the tag phases=2, just like how we'll never see phases=17. 
 It doesn't make anything fundamentally wrong with the tagging scheme.  I 
believe this is a good proposal that should be voted on.


From: Mike Thompson <miketh...@gmail.com>
Sent: February 12, 2017 6:07 PM
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

After a little digging, it seems that there *was* at one time such a thing as 
two phase electric power, with the phases 90 degrees apart[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Elementary_Two_Phase_Alternator.jpg/400px-Elementary_Two_Phase_Alternator.jpg]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power>

Two-phase electric power - 
Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power>
en.wikipedia.org
Two-phase electrical power was an early 20th-century polyphase alternating 
current electric power distribution system. Two circuits were used, with 
voltage phases ...





On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Warin 
<61sundow...@gmail.com<mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I think the incorrect term '2 phase' is the split single phase (or single phase 
3 wire) that the Americans use, 120 v  from 'neutral' to either line but 240 v 
from line to line and that 240 v is termed '2 phase' despite the fact that it 
is a single phase. All of these lines are supposed to float - no connection to 
earth is supposed to be made.





 On 13-Feb-17 07:27 AM, ajt1...@gmail.com<mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/02/2017 20:07, Mike Thompson wrote:
Jherome,

...  Having spent some time in the electrical industry (in the U.S.) my 
understanding is there is no such thing as "2 phase", only single phase and 
three phase.



In terms of supply to premises, you're going to get single phase or 3-phase, 
but I think that you can still get minor power lines carrying just 2 phases 
(e.g. to 2 houses, each single phase) can't you?

Best Regards,

Andy

(who hasn't actually done any 3-phase wiring in 40 years, so it might have 
changed a bit since then!)


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Warin]

I think the incorrect term '2 phase' is the split single phase (or 
single phase 3 wire) that the Americans use, 120 v  from 'neutral' to 
either line but 240 v from line to line and that 240 v is termed '2 
phase' despite the fact that it is a single phase. All of these lines 
are supposed to float - no connection to earth is supposed to be made.





 On 13-Feb-17 07:27 AM, ajt1...@gmail.com wrote:

On 12/02/2017 20:07, Mike Thompson wrote:

Jherome,

...  Having spent some time in the electrical industry (in the U.S.) 
my understanding is there is no such thing as "2 phase", only single 
phase and three phase.





In terms of supply to premises, you're going to get single phase or 
3-phase, but I think that you can still get minor power lines carrying 
just 2 phases (e.g. to 2 houses, each single phase) can't you?


Best Regards,

Andy

(who hasn't actually done any 3-phase wiring in 40 years, so it might 
have changed a bit since then!)



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 12/02/2017 20:07, Mike Thompson wrote:

Jherome,

...  Having spent some time in the electrical industry (in the U.S.) 
my understanding is there is no such thing as "2 phase", only single 
phase and three phase.





In terms of supply to premises, you're going to get single phase or 
3-phase, but I think that you can still get minor power lines carrying 
just 2 phases (e.g. to 2 houses, each single phase) can't you?


Best Regards,

Andy

(who hasn't actually done any 3-phase wiring in 40 years, so it might 
have changed a bit since then!)



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Mike Thompson]

Jherome,

Thanks for your work on this. I will study this more, but one thing that
jumped out is that in one of your examples you stated "phase=2." Having
spent some time in the electrical industry (in the U.S.) my understanding
is there is no such thing as "2 phase", only single phase and three phase.

Mike

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Jherome Miguel 
wrote:

> This is the second RFC I sent the proposal for an extended tagging of
> power poles. I sent a previous RFC, but with no comments requested.
>
> The goal of the power pole extension proposal is to extend the tagging of
> power poles, which has limited tags and allow the use of power=pole on
> power=line with a voltage of at most 138,000 volts (where very tall poles
> above the mentioned voltage falls on power=tower).
>
> Link to proposal at the wiki:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension
>
> Any comments requested, as this is the second RFC after the first one did
> not have any response at all.
>
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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Power pole extension

[Jherome Miguel]

This is the second RFC I sent the proposal for an extended tagging of power
poles. I sent a previous RFC, but with no comments requested.

The goal of the power pole extension proposal is to extend the tagging of
power poles, which has limited tags and allow the use of power=pole on
power=line with a voltage of at most 138,000 volts (where very tall poles
above the mentioned voltage falls on power=tower).

Link to proposal at the wiki:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension

Any comments requested, as this is the second RFC after the first one did
not have any response at all.
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