Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 8/07/2015 8:49 PM, Warin wrote: On 8/07/2015 5:27 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-07-08 1:54 GMT+02:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com: Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; building=yes wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes Are wedding receptions special with regard to other private celebrations like birthdays, baptisms, anniversaries, presentations? They look to be separated by the venues . https://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/welcome/royal_botanic_garden/weddings_and_venues/weddings What is the criterion for wedding_reception=yes (i.e. is it sufficient that there once was a wedding reception, or do they have to occur frequently?). There are vast belief/cultural difference across the globe for weddings and their receptions!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_reception In general I believe something more generic like event_space (or maybe a little more specific) would be better, because wedding reception places (at least the ones I am aware of) typically also can be used for other kind of celebrations. I wish to remove the possibility of a mapper looking for a tag for a wedding reception using the proposed reception/reception_point/reception_area by error. I could simple create a wiki page with that title and direct them to a generic tag .. but a google on wedding reception shows the popularity of this function. Google search numbers wedding reception 169,000,000 Birthday venues 75,800,000 anniversary venue 59,500,000 presentation venue 86,800,000 So wedding venues look to be about twice the numbers of the others... For comparison the OSM tag amenity=music_venue has 91,000,000 google search numbers (searched for music venue)... And yes a music venue might also be used for other things too. Google search on event venue returns 292,000,000 results .. I don't think all of them would be suitable for a wedding reception.And the numbers are about half those of wedding reception. ? What do you think? :-\ One other thing .. the draft proposal for amenity=events_venue is for a stand alone facility and shows a photo of a building. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Devents_venue What about when the 'event' is in a garden, a park, a mountain top or on a beach? These places are not stand alone and some are used by the public at other times. e.g. https://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/welcome/royal_botanic_garden/weddings_and_venues/weddings A restaurant may hold a wedding reception (in a separated room but probably a common entry) ... and so you have the situation where on OSM you have amenity=restaurant with the tag amenity=event_venue? Needs more thinking on the event_venue thing. But I think there are enough wedding reception venues to have there own tag? -- A range of examples can be found here http://www.i-do.com.au/wedding-services/waterfront-venues/sydney/ A dojo, a beach, a hotel, a fort (in the middle of Sydney Harbour), a zoo, and on. there is a very large variety... I think it is a property tag .. not a key:feature tag. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 2015-07-08 01:54, Warin wrote : Hi Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; In LST, it's called an attribute which can be an attribute of the object or of another attribute. The object is the physical thing that's on-the-so-called-ground. This gives the canonical forms: building=yes wedding_reception=yes building:wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes leisure:park:wedding_reception=yes but this is incorrect because 'leisure' is not an object. LTS tries to avoid compound definitions and to define atoms like wedding and reception separately. Then we have the molecule reception:wedding. And, in fact, as events_venue has already been defined for reception: park:events_venue:wedding=yes But I find that events_venue weird an I prefer simpler reception instead: park:reception:wedding=yes The normal, abridged form is: park=yes reception:wedding=yes (because park:... is implicit) as well as park=yes leisure=yes or park=leisure Cheers André. And so on. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/wedding_reception ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
The normal, abridged form is: park=yes reception:wedding=yes (because park:... is implicit) as well as park=yes leisure=yes or park=leisure since when is either park=yes or park=leisure the accepted way of tagging a park ? It's leisure=park. If you want to propose a different way of tagging things, please do so in a separate tread. Bringing it up on each new proposal is confusing IMHO. regards m ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 8/07/2015 5:27 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-07-08 1:54 GMT+02:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com: Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; building=yes wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes Are wedding receptions special with regard to other private celebrations like birthdays, baptisms, anniversaries, presentations? They look to be separated by the venues . https://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/welcome/royal_botanic_garden/weddings_and_venues/weddings What is the criterion for wedding_reception=yes (i.e. is it sufficient that there once was a wedding reception, or do they have to occur frequently?). There are vast belief/cultural difference across the globe for weddings and their receptions!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_reception In general I believe something more generic like event_space (or maybe a little more specific) would be better, because wedding reception places (at least the ones I am aware of) typically also can be used for other kind of celebrations. I wish to remove the possibility of a mapper looking for a tag for a wedding reception using the proposed reception/reception_point/reception_area by error. I could simple create a wiki page with that title and direct them to a generic tag .. but a google on wedding reception shows the popularity of this function. Google search numbers wedding reception 169,000,000 Birthday venues 75,800,000 anniversary venue 59,500,000 presentation venue 86,800,000 So wedding venues look to be about twice the numbers of the others... For comparison the OSM tag amenity=music_venue has 91,000,000 google search numbers (searched for music venue)... And yes a music venue might also be used for other things too. Google search on event venue returns 292,000,000 results .. I don't think all of them would be suitable for a wedding reception.And the numbers are about half those of wedding reception. ? What do you think? :-\ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 8/07/2015 10:33 PM, André Pirard wrote: On 2015-07-08 01:54, Warin wrote : Hi Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; In LST, it's called an attribute which can be an attribute of the object or of another attribute. The object is the physical thing that's on-the-so-called-ground. This gives the canonical forms: building=yes wedding_reception=yes building:wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes leisure:park:wedding_reception=yes but this is incorrect because 'leisure' is not an object. But park is an object. Unfortunately OSM mixes objects and functions in various ways that are not consistent. Nothing I can do about that with this simple proposal. In fact if objects and functions were to be organised in some consistant way, there would be considerable disruption to OSM as it now is! This comes from a non existent structure to OSM and no documentation to even suggest such a structure. LTS tries to avoid compound definitions and to define atoms like wedding and reception separately. OSM has not. But I find that events_venue weird an I prefer simpler reception instead: park:reception:wedding=yes events = birthday parties, conferences, anniversaries ... not just 'receptions'. events is a function, adding venue makes it an object. Sorry but I think this leads nowhere I would like a 'function' type name ..not an object ... for this 'property' of an object .. be it a park, building etc. --- Looks like the voting is against this. Some against as it would be too numerous. Others suggest a more numerous coverage would be better. ... there is a conflict here! And that cannot be resolved either way .. :-P ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
The social event is the wedding reception, not the location in which the event is held. You are the only person I have ever heard to refer to the location, rather than the event, as a wedding reception. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. On July 7, 2015 6:55:45 PM Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; building=yes wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes And so on. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/wedding_reception ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
sent from a phone Am 08.07.2015 um 15:58 schrieb Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: But park is an object. Unfortunately OSM mixes objects and functions in various ways that are not consistent. not sure why park should be an object and not a function. How can you distinguish objects from functions? cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
2015-07-08 1:54 GMT+02:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; building=yes wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes Are wedding receptions special with regard to other private celebrations like birthdays, baptisms, anniversaries, presentations? What is the criterion for wedding_reception=yes (i.e. is it sufficient that there once was a wedding reception, or do they have to occur frequently?). In general I believe something more generic like event_space (or maybe a little more specific) would be better, because wedding reception places (at least the ones I am aware of) typically also can be used for other kind of celebrations. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
sent from a phone Am 09.07.2015 um 00:54 schrieb Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: A Park is an object.. it has a physical existence, it can be used in various ways, for leisure and/or sport. isn't it the function as a park, that lets you do sports or leisure activities? When the same physical stuff (lawn, trees, lake etc) was in a garden you might not be able to use it this way Leisure is not an object but an action/function. in osm it is a key that describes objects, like swimming pools for instance, or football pitches. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 9/07/2015 1:13 AM, John Eldredge wrote: The social event is the wedding reception, not the location in which the event is held. You are the only person I have ever heard to refer to the location, rather than the event, as a wedding reception. Good point. On a map (such as OSM) locations are identified.. so for a wedding reception... A place (location) where a wedding reception can be held? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 9/07/2015 1:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone Am 08.07.2015 um 15:58 schrieb Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: But park is an object. Unfortunately OSM mixes objects and functions in various ways that are not consistent. not sure why park should be an object and not a function. How can you distinguish objects from functions? A Park is an object.. it has a physical existence, it can be used in various ways, for leisure and/or sport. Leisure is not an object but an action/function. Sport is not an object but an action/function. Playing is not an object but an action/function. Playing cards .. the cards are objects .. but the act of playing is a function. Does that help? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
On 9/07/2015 9:28 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone Am 09.07.2015 um 00:54 schrieb Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: A Park is an object.. it has a physical existence, it can be used in various ways, for leisure and/or sport. isn't it the function as a park, You now talk of what it could be used for i.e. the function of an object. that lets you do sports or leisure activities? When the same physical stuff (lawn, trees, lake etc) was in a garden you might not be able to use it this way A park too maybe configured not to allow sports or leisure activities. Leisure is not an object but an action/function. in osm it is a key that describes objects, like swimming pools for instance, or football pitches. It describes the function of those objects .. leisure is not an object itself. Oxford Dictionary definition leisure =Use of free time for enjoymenthttp://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/enjoyment#enjoyment__2 OSM definition leisure = places people go in their spare time... So the OSM definition takes a function and makes it an object... but to an English speaker leisure is not an object. Hence the confusion. OSM redefines things .. an apple becomes an orange. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Wedding Reception
Hi Voting for this 'property' is now open. Wedding Reception Definition: A place where a social event is held after the completion of a wedding ceremony. Note that it is a 'property' rather than a key:value (what I call a sub tag). It may be applied to any key:value examples; building=yes wedding_reception=yes leisure=park wedding_reception=yes And so on. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/wedding_reception ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
