Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
At 2010-05-20 02:44, Jean-Guilhem Cailton wrote: Le 20/05/2010 06:29, John Smith a écrit : Here's a sample generated from NASA site log files: node id='-1' visible='true' lat='44.4639' lon='26.12573889' tag k='fixme' v='not_reviewed' / tag k='man_made' v='monitoring_station' / tag k='monitoring:gps' v='yes' / tag k='monitoring:glonass' v='yes' / tag k='iers_domes_number' v='11401M001' / tag k='antenna' v='LEIAT504GG LEIS' / tag k='receiver' v='LEICA GRX1200GGPRO' / tag k='name' v='Bucuresti / Romania' / tag k='ele' v='143.2' / tag k='source:url' v='http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/igscb/station/log/bucu_20100503.log' / /node Just to make things more interesting, the lat/lon given for some/all sites are in country or region specific datums, eg Australian locations use GDA94, but the site log file can't automatically be parsed for which datum is used. And it doesn't even always specify them :( Compared with the monitoring sites with other purposes (nice aircraft noise tracking site by the way), I thought that at least for the positioning systems monitoring sites, precise lat/lon should be available. Looking at the Toulouse log file (and Bucarest's as well), it seemed to use ITRF reference system (International Terrestrial Reference Frame - http://itrf.ensg.ign.fr/), apparently fairly close to WGS84 for OSM purposes (ftp://itrf.ensg.ign.fr/pub/itrf/WGS84.TXT). The ITRF values do appear to be precisely what is being measured. However, the Latitude and Longitude below them are not always correctly transformed to WGS84. I spot-checked a few in my area, finding one that was correct, and some that were off by as much as 100m. I used GeoTrans3 and the WGS84 datum for the transformation. I looked up the Wikipedia source and was satisfied that this is supposedly sufficient to get within 10 cm. The lat/lon for BUCU is correct under these circumstances, but that for TOUL is not. I get 43 33 38.5307, 1 28 51.2087, 211.655 - ~9 meters away from the spec'd lat/lon, which seems closer to what appears to be the correct structure in the Bing imagery - the square pad near the edge of the building about 2.7m SSW of those coords. I'd also add ref=* for the 4-char identifier (e.g. BUCU) and start_date from Item 1 Date Installed. Note that at least one of these IGSC stations (LEEP) was previously imported by someone: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/740570067 -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
2010/5/19 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: yes, I guess it helps more to speak German ;-). In German highway=ford translates to Furt and this is the definition in OSM. Mostly you can guess the meaning of tags by typing them into an English-German-dictionary and look up the various meanings in German. How's that better than a native page written in German on the wiki ? I didn't say it was better, it was simply a notion I wanted to share ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On 20 May 2010 20:44, Jean-Guilhem Cailton j...@arkemie.com wrote: Compared with the monitoring sites with other purposes (nice aircraft noise tracking site by the way), I thought that at least for the It tracks aircraft too :) positioning systems monitoring sites, precise lat/lon should be available. They also still use imperial notation for lat/lon (DDMMSS.) even if they are using fractions of seconds, instead of decimal degrees... Although the datum is the most annoying, especially when they're monitoring WGS84 signals! Looking at the Toulouse log file (and Bucarest's as well), it seemed to use ITRF reference system (International Terrestrial Reference Frame - http://itrf.ensg.ign.fr/), apparently fairly close to WGS84 for OSM purposes (ftp://itrf.ensg.ign.fr/pub/itrf/WGS84.TXT). Most should be within a few metres of the WGS84 position, although over time and plates slipping things will drift. I wonder if new regional datums will be published to move things back closer to WGS84? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On 19 May 2010 19:38, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: plus a note=Regularly reassess the position after a significant tectonic plates movement, like once every million years or after an earthquake While earth quakes will allow the plates to shift suddenly, all of the plates are constantly moving, the Australian plate alone is moving about 5cm per year, combined with relative shift of other plates the relative speed increases to between 7 and 10cm NNE per year, but different parts of the same plate are moving in different directions and at different rates. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
Le 19/05/2010 06:35, John Smith a écrit : NASA has a list of 421 of these sites located world wide: http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/network/list.html The IGS is a voluntary federation of many worldwide agencies that pool resources and permanent GNSS station data to generate precise GNSS products. In general, you can think of the IGS as the highest-precision international civilian GPS community. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Hi, Interesting site list. How about importing it into OSM ? Best regards, Jean-Guilhem ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On 19 May 2010 20:05, Jean-Guilhem Cailton j...@arkemie.com wrote: Interesting site list. How about importing it into OSM ? I'm working on parsing the data at present, should have something completed soon. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On 19 May 2010 20:21, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting site list. How about importing it into OSM ? I'm working on parsing the data at present, should have something completed soon. I'm still tweaking the script to deal with the log files, there is some small differences between the files, which are perfectly easily human readable, but not very computer readable friendly. Also, some of the sites also monitor GLONASS signals, so instead it might be better to use: man_made=monitoring_station gps=yes/no glonass=yes/no etc ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On 20 May 2010 10:42, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: man_made=monitoring_station There are other types of monitoring stations, if you visit the webtrak site it shows noise monitoring stations: http://www331.webtrak-lochard.com/webtrak/bne3 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dmonitoring_station ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
Here's a sample generated from NASA site log files: node id='-1' visible='true' lat='44.4639' lon='26.12573889' tag k='fixme' v='not_reviewed' / tag k='man_made' v='monitoring_station' / tag k='monitoring:gps' v='yes' / tag k='monitoring:glonass' v='yes' / tag k='iers_domes_number' v='11401M001' / tag k='antenna' v='LEIAT504GG LEIS' / tag k='receiver' v='LEICA GRX1200GGPRO' / tag k='name' v='Bucuresti / Romania' / tag k='ele' v='143.2' / tag k='source:url' v='http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/igscb/station/log/bucu_20100503.log' / /node Just to make things more interesting, the lat/lon given for some/all sites are in country or region specific datums, eg Australian locations use GDA94, but the site log file can't automatically be parsed for which datum is used. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
I'm currently going through mapping fixed position GPS receivers that are used for measuring tectonic plate movements, can anyone think of a better tag than man_made=gps_receiver ? It was suggested to mark it as a survey point, but these locations aren't used for surveying. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/739113588 http://www.ga.gov.au/geodesy/argn/sydn.jsp ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
2010/5/19 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 19 May 2010 12:56, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: or at least a more specific tag than man_made=gps_receiver. If you want a dedicated tag use sth. like plate_tectonic_monitoring I wasn't feeling inspired today, which is why I posted to this list asking for tag naming suggestions on what to refer to these as, since man_made=a_well_surveyed_known_position_with_high_accuracy_to_monitor_gps_signals is a bit of a mouthful. Yes, but it doesn't get less if you put man_made=gps_receiver and note=a_well_surveyed_known_position_with_high_accuracy_to_monitor_gps_signals I suggest that tagging somehow is understandable ideally without even needing the wiki to look up what it intends. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 May 2010 11:48, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: From wikipedia: Surveying or land surveying is the technique and science of accurately determining the terrestrial or three-dimensional position of points and the distances and angles between them. These points are usually on the surface of the Earth, and they are often used to establish land maps and boundaries for ownership or governmental purposes. Exactly, these locations are used to monitor the movement of a tectonic plate, atmospheric conditions and potentially drift of GPS satellite locations, none of which has anything to do with used to establish land maps and boundaries That was quite a selective quote of my quote. The first sentence boils down to surveying = determining the position of points. And monitoring (which is indeed just determining on an ongoing basis) the position of tectonic plates are GPS satellites matches this definition. We'll have to agree to disagree then, Ok. tagging them as just another survey marker is a reduction of information to lowest common denominator. There's no need to lose information - just use other additional tags. How about man_made=survey_point + survey_point=fancy_tectonic_whatever_thing? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
On 19 May 2010 13:56, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly, these locations are used to monitor the movement of a tectonic plate, atmospheric conditions and potentially drift of GPS satellite locations, none of which has anything to do with used to establish land maps and boundaries That was quite a selective quote of my quote. The first sentence boils Maybe so, but it seemed as important as any other part. down to surveying = determining the position of points. And surveying markers were used determining other points relative to known points, this is the inverse, it's a known point monitoring other points (aka GPS sats). monitoring (which is indeed just determining on an ongoing basis) the position of tectonic plates are GPS satellites matches this definition. The position of the plates are derived based on monitoring signals from sats, also plate monitoring is only one function, from GA's website: Data from all the ARGN sites are automatically downloaded to Geoscience Australia in Canberra using a variety of dedicated phone lines, Internet and/or satellite communications. These data are being used for a range of scientific, geodynamic and other projects including integrity monitoring and legal traceability. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers
NASA has a list of 421 of these sites located world wide: http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/network/list.html The IGS is a voluntary federation of many worldwide agencies that pool resources and permanent GNSS station data to generate precise GNSS products. In general, you can think of the IGS as the highest-precision international civilian GPS community. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
