Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
2015-05-10 16:32 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: Every monument is a memorial, isn't it? Monuments are large memorials. +1, the Albert memorial should be tagged as a monument in OSM. In British English yes; but the issue is that in other cultures (and languages) a monument is a historic building. See: http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org/ It doesn't matter for us. We are tagging according to our conventions as defined in the wiki... Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
2015-05-10 3:06 GMT+02:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: If it is 10 metres high .. but 50 millimeters diameter ... is it still 'large'? yes. I agree it is relative, a motorway with 10 metres length would be rather small ;-) Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
On 7 May 2015 at 06:11, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: There is confusion between monument and memorial ... suggest follow the definitions under the OSM tag historic .. where monument is large ... as in you can walk inside it, over it. memorial is small .. say a plaque Really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Memorial ? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
On 10 May 2015 at 14:33, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: Every monument is a memorial, isn't it? Monuments are large memorials. In British English yes; but the issue is that in other cultures (and languages) a monument is a historic building. See: http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org/ for example. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
ned, 10. svi 2015. 14:54 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk je napisao: Really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Memorial ? Every monument is a memorial, isn't it? Monuments are large memorials. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: a photo of a stone cross over 5m tall since you cannot walk in it/over it (cfr. monument is large ... as in you can walk inside it, over it.) it is a memorial. a monument is often a building IMHO regards m ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
2015-05-08 10:15 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: a photo of a stone cross over 5m tall since you cannot walk in it/over it (cfr. monument is large ... as in you can walk inside it, over it.) it is a memorial. a monument is often a building IMHO 5 meters is large ;-) a monument can be a building, but it can also be something else. IMHO it also depends on context, if you are in a monumental setting with everything huge, a 5 meter stone cross might be just a small insignificant part of it, and could eventually be considered a memorial by the mapper, if instead this is an isolated feature I would be more inclined to map it as monument. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: There is confusion between monument and memorial ... suggest follow the definitions under the OSM tag historic .. where monument is large ... as in you can walk inside it, over it. memorial is small .. say a plaque As far as I can tell, the distinction is about size, but vague words like small and large used, and the examples given are at the extreme ends (building vs. plaque). People need more guidelines to know where the dividing line is in the middle. For example, is there a certain height (3m? 5m? 10m?) where a tower or pillar changes from memorial to monument? Or a certain amount of area (10 sq m? 25? 100?) something covers to change from memorial to monument? By way of example, on the historic=memorial page, there is a photo of a stone cross over 5m tall which could certainly fit the way monument is defined on that page An object, especially large and made of stone, built to remember and show respect to a person or group of people I don't especially care where the line is, but if people are concerned about mistagging then this should be clarified. Thanks, Brad ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
In Croatia historic=monument is often wrongly used to tag all types of sculptures. Only a dedicated icon for sculptures (tourism=artwork + artwork_type=sculpture) can fix that. Janko čet, 7. svi 2015. 18:05 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com je napisao: On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: There is confusion between monument and memorial ... suggest follow the definitions under the OSM tag historic .. where monument is large ... as in you can walk inside it, over it. memorial is small .. say a plaque As far as I can tell, the distinction is about size, but vague words like small and large used, and the examples given are at the extreme ends (building vs. plaque). People need more guidelines to know where the dividing line is in the middle. For example, is there a certain height (3m? 5m? 10m?) where a tower or pillar changes from memorial to monument? Or a certain amount of area (10 sq m? 25? 100?) something covers to change from memorial to monument? By way of example, on the historic=memorial page, there is a photo of a stone cross over 5m tall which could certainly fit the way monument is defined on that page An object, especially large and made of stone, built to remember and show respect to a person or group of people I don't especially care where the line is, but if people are concerned about mistagging then this should be clarified. Thanks, Brad ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
The problem may relate in part to Germany, where a natural monument is a thing. Also in the USA the tag is ambiguous. historic=memorial perhaps better fits the definition. But even then there are many small memorials and roadside plaques that could reasonably be tagged historic=memorial or historic=monument, but don't seem to match your definition well. It would help if the agency certifying the monument were identified per http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage For example: heritige=2 historic=memorial heritage:operator=nhrp ref:nrhp=nhrp=07001063 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
Dear all, Openstreetmap-carto (the default rendering style on openstreetmap.org) will soon render objects tagged historic=monument with an icon. There is currently a large number of objects incorrectly tagged as historic=monument. The definition of historic=monument according to the wiki: 'A memorial object, especially large (one can go inside, walk on or through it) and made of stone, built to remember, show respect to a person or group of people or to commemorate an event'. Note that this tag should not be used for national heritage buildings (called listed buildings in some countries). The word 'monument' does not have this meaning in English. Instead, historic=yes, the heritage key, or the listed_status key could be used for such buildings: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage It would be good to correct as many incorrectly tagged objects as possible before the tag is rendered. This map can be helpful for that: http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/map.html See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1532 for the discussion on Github. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal has no listings for Australia (possibly www. *nationaltrust*.org.au/ ?) and ignores British www.*nationaltrust*. org.uk/ ? I've no idea how the 'level' is decided .. while it gives some examples, it does not look like it has any explanation of how to determine this. It is a proposal ... and needs some work? Certainly more explanation. At the moment I cannot use the heritage tag. I thought level should correspond to the admin level of the institute that lists the object. E.g. when it is done on country level - 2. In Belgium it is done on regional level (Flanders, Brussels, Wallonia) - 4. regards m ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
On 7/05/2015 3:18 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal has no listings for Australia (possibly www.*nationaltrust*.org.au/ http://org.au/ ?) and ignores British www.*nationaltrust*.org.uk/ http://org.uk/ ? I've no idea how the 'level' is decided .. while it gives some examples, it does not look like it has any explanation of how to determine this. It is a proposal ... and needs some work? Certainly more explanation. At the moment I cannot use the heritage tag. I thought level should correspond to the admin level of the institute that lists the object. E.g. when it is done on country level - 2. In Belgium it is done on regional level (Flanders, Brussels, Wallonia) - 4. regards m If taken that way then the British and Australian National Trusts would level 2. If it is not clear (as in very obvious) to me .. then it probably is not clear to others Stating how the level is determine would be more usefull than the table as the table will never cover all instances. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
There is confusion between monument and memorial ... suggest follow the definitions under the OSM tag historic .. where monument is large ... as in you can walk inside it, over it. memorial is small .. say a plaque I have re-tagged some of the 'monuments' to 'memorials' where I am familiar with them. They became eveident due to my use of OAMand that renders these tags. If other renders were to do the same then more mappers would be aware of the problem and it would be corrected with local knowledge. So rendering these without any correction will lead to corrections taking place as required with the best knowledge - that of the locals. - Off topic On 7/05/2015 11:18 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: It would help if the agency certifying the monument were identified per http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage That proposal has no listings for Australia (possibly www.*nationaltrust*.org.au/ ?) and ignores British www.*nationaltrust*.org.uk/ ? I've no idea how the 'level' is decided .. while it gives some examples, it does not look like it has any explanation of how to determine this. It is a proposal ... and needs some work? Certainly more explanation. At the moment I cannot use the heritage tag. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
It's under Tagging, it's mentioned twice, once under Main tag, once under Secondary tags On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/05/2015 3:18 PM, Marc Gemis wrote: On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal has no listings for Australia (possibly www. *nationaltrust*.org.au/ ?) and ignores British www.*nationaltrust*. org.uk/ ? I've no idea how the 'level' is decided .. while it gives some examples, it does not look like it has any explanation of how to determine this. It is a proposal ... and needs some work? Certainly more explanation. At the moment I cannot use the heritage tag. I thought level should correspond to the admin level of the institute that lists the object. E.g. when it is done on country level - 2. In Belgium it is done on regional level (Flanders, Brussels, Wallonia) - 4. regards m If taken that way then the British and Australian National Trusts would level 2. If it is not clear (as in very obvious) to me .. then it probably is not clear to others Stating how the level is determine would be more usefull than the table as the table will never cover all instances. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
sorry I overlooked the same link in Matthijs email. On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 6:53 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: They is a project+map that shows all those monuments with the request to retag them: http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/ regards m. On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 2:45 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: Dear all, Openstreetmap-carto (the default rendering style on openstreetmap.org) will soon render objects tagged historic=monument with an icon. There is currently a large number of objects incorrectly tagged as historic=monument. The definition of historic=monument according to the wiki: 'A memorial object, especially large (one can go inside, walk on or through it) and made of stone, built to remember, show respect to a person or group of people or to commemorate an event'. Note that this tag should not be used for national heritage buildings (called listed buildings in some countries). The word 'monument' does not have this meaning in English. Instead, historic=yes, the heritage key, or the listed_status key could be used for such buildings: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage It would be good to correct as many incorrectly tagged objects as possible before the tag is rendered. This map can be helpful for that: http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/map.html See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1532 for the discussion on Github. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of historic=monument
They is a project+map that shows all those monuments with the request to retag them: http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/ regards m. On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 2:45 AM, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote: Dear all, Openstreetmap-carto (the default rendering style on openstreetmap.org) will soon render objects tagged historic=monument with an icon. There is currently a large number of objects incorrectly tagged as historic=monument. The definition of historic=monument according to the wiki: 'A memorial object, especially large (one can go inside, walk on or through it) and made of stone, built to remember, show respect to a person or group of people or to commemorate an event'. Note that this tag should not be used for national heritage buildings (called listed buildings in some countries). The word 'monument' does not have this meaning in English. Instead, historic=yes, the heritage key, or the listed_status key could be used for such buildings: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:listed_status http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage It would be good to correct as many incorrectly tagged objects as possible before the tag is rendered. This map can be helpful for that: http://www.historic.place/themes/monuments/map.html See https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1532 for the discussion on Github. -- Matthijs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
