Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
On 10/23/2010 04:00 AM, Peter Wendorff wrote: Relations are to relate things to each other. Therefore the role is the interesting part of the relation concept. A group of things, where none of them has a specific role is not a relation, it's a collection or category. That would apply to the route relation as well as the more simple boundary relations (ones that don’t have any enclaves or exclaves) and multipolygons (again, where they’re used to simply group multiple ways) —Alex Mauer “hawke” ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
On 23 October 2010 03:29, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: all cases. Using brand with multiple values feeld incorrect to me, because it is not the brands of the atm but it is networks where it is affiliated with. Isn't this what relations are for, to group things? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
Am 23.10.2010 09:06, schrieb John Smith: On 23 October 2010 03:29, M∡rtin Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: all cases. Using brand with multiple values feeld incorrect to me, because it is not the brands of the atm but it is networks where it is affiliated with. Isn't this what relations are for, to group things? No. Relations are to relate things to each other. Therefore the role is the interesting part of the relation concept. A group of things, where none of them has a specific role is not a relation, it's a collection or category. Often relations are misused for these kind, but intentionally this is not correct. regards Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 10/22/10 1:45 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/10/22 Richard Weltyrwe...@averillpark.net: for ATMs, brand and operator are likely to be the same, as what the user really wants to know is if it's his bank, or one that will hit him up with extra charges. so i'd say use the street name of the financial institution. Don't know in your country, in Germany we have different situations: there is cash group with 5 or so private mayor players in banking (you don't pay fees on any of them if you're account holder on one). the situation is different in the US, and hard to map with current OSM tagging conventions. ATMs can serve multiple networks, and cards can work in multiple networks, but no-fee is restricted to ATMs belonging to card holder's financial institution. If we want to get precise (or pedantic), that isn't quite accurate. It's your bank's ATMs, plus any other bank your bank has an agreement with. For example, as a credit union member, I've never payed a fee at another credit union ATM. I don't know if that's universal or just a feature of the credit unions I choose to go to. But then there's also another bank I belong to which doesn't have any branded ATMs, but gives me a list of ATMs in my area where I won't be charged a fee. An accurate map of ATMs to determine fees would be very hard for us to make. - Serge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
2010/10/22 j...@jfeldredge.com: In the USA, an A(M is usually a member of multiple networks, sometimes ten or more, and will usually have decals on the front of the machine identifying which networks it is a member of. You can use the machine if your bank is a member of any of those networks, but may have to pay a surcharge if the bank operating the ATM is not your bank. basically the situation in europe is the same or similar. There are quite a lot of networks, national and international, where some of the networks assure only the function of your card, while beeing a member in others will reduce or eliminate the fee. An atm usually is part of more then one network. Therefore I proposed to add Key:network to the atm page. This might not cover all needed information in all cases to decide whether you will have to pay a fee, but it will help. Additionally operator should be tagged for the bank that set up the atm, and maybe name for the name of the individual machine. If there is also a brand tag to be set can be valueated by the mapper and might depend on local structures. E.g. I could imagine something like amenity=atm operator=Berliner Sparkasse brand=Sparkasse network=Maestro;ec;cirrus cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] atms with names?
The wiki states the name is a suitable tag for atm. I disagree because I don't know named atms. Do you? I am also proposing the use of the network-tag (or maybe brand?) e.g. cash_group Sparkasse, Volks- und Raiffeisenbank (all german networks for atms). I this is undisputed, I'd change the wiki. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
On 23 October 2010 02:25, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: The wiki states the name is a suitable tag for atm. I disagree because I don't know named atms. Do you? I am also proposing the use of the network-tag (or maybe brand?) e.g. cash_group Sparkasse, Volks- und Raiffeisenbank (all german networks for atms). I this is undisputed, I'd change the wiki. What is wrong with the operator=* or brand=* tags? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
In the USA, ATMs will usually be labeled with the name of the bank chain operating them, and then will have smaller decals on the front showing which networks of banks that bank belongs to (for example, banking chain A and banking chain B both are part of the Cirrus network). You can use any ATM in a network that your bank belongs to, but will probably have to pay higher fees for any withdrawal from an ATM not owned by your own bank. So, I would think that the bank name would go into brand, and possibly name as well; there would be multiple network tags. ---Original Email--- Subject :[Tagging] atms with names? From :mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com Date :Fri Oct 22 11:25:34 America/Chicago 2010 The wiki states the name is a suitable tag for atm. I disagree because I don't know named atms. Do you? I am also proposing the use of the network-tag (or maybe brand?) e.g. cash_group Sparkasse, Volks- und Raiffeisenbank (all german networks for atms). I this is undisputed, I'd change the wiki. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com writes: On 23 October 2010 02:25, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: The wiki states the name is a suitable tag for atm. I disagree because I don't know named atms. Do you? I am also proposing the use of the network-tag (or maybe brand?) e.g. cash_group Sparkasse, Volks- und Raiffeisenbank (all german networks for atms). I this is undisputed, I'd change the wiki. What is wrong with the operator=* or brand=* tags? +1 to both name=* to me would equate to the name that appears on my bank statement, like Student Center Post Office ATM or Lenox Square Mall ATM. It sounds like what you're describing fits in operator=* or brand=*. I don't know about network=*... even though they're called networks, that seems like a different meaning from the existing uses of network=* in OSM. -- Peter Budny \ Georgia Tech \ CS PhD student \ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
On 10/22/10 1:18 PM, Noel David Torres Taño wrote: I've asked about this too. I can understand that name=* refers to a specific name of the particular ATM, like Lenox Square Mall ATM as you said. But where to write Banca March (bank) and where to write Servired (network)? Which one is operator=* and which one is brand=* ? for ATMs, brand and operator are likely to be the same, as what the user really wants to know is if it's his bank, or one that will hit him up with extra charges. so i'd say use the street name of the financial institution. richafrd ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
2010/10/22 Noel David Torres Taño env...@rolamasao.org: On Viernes 22 Octubre 2010 17:58:04 Peter Budny escribió: What is wrong with the operator=* or brand=* tags? +1 to both name=* to me would equate to the name that appears on my bank statement, like Student Center Post Office ATM or Lenox Square Mall ATM. It sounds like what you're describing fits in operator=* or brand=*. I don't know about network=*... even though they're called networks, that seems like a different meaning from the existing uses of network=* in OSM. I've asked about this too. I can understand that name=* refers to a specific name of the particular ATM, like Lenox Square Mall ATM as you said. But where to write Banca March (bank) and where to write Servired (network)? Which one is operator=* and which one is brand=* ? operator is Banca March (the bank that set up the atm and puts money in when it's empty), the network is Servired and this could also be expressed as brand. This might be OK for most cases. I can imagine cases where it creates problems, because network could be more then one, brand could then refer to the brand of the bank that set up the atm and operator would be the bank that operates it. Brand and operator are not the same in all cases. Using brand with multiple values feeld incorrect to me, because it is not the brands of the atm but it is networks where it is affiliated with. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
On Viernes 22 Octubre 2010 18:29:58 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer escribió: 2010/10/22 Noel David Torres Taño env...@rolamasao.org: On Viernes 22 Octubre 2010 17:58:04 Peter Budny escribió: What is wrong with the operator=* or brand=* tags? +1 to both name=* to me would equate to the name that appears on my bank statement, like Student Center Post Office ATM or Lenox Square Mall ATM. It sounds like what you're describing fits in operator=* or brand=*. I don't know about network=*... even though they're called networks, that seems like a different meaning from the existing uses of network=* in OSM. I've asked about this too. I can understand that name=* refers to a specific name of the particular ATM, like Lenox Square Mall ATM as you said. But where to write Banca March (bank) and where to write Servired (network)? Which one is operator=* and which one is brand=* ? operator is Banca March (the bank that set up the atm and puts money in when it's empty), the network is Servired and this could also be expressed as brand. This might be OK for most cases. I can imagine cases where it creates problems, because network could be more then one, brand could then refer to the brand of the bank that set up the atm and operator would be the bank that operates it. Brand and operator are not the same in all cases. Using brand with multiple values feeld incorrect to me, because it is not the brands of the atm but it is networks where it is affiliated with. cheers, Martin It is not the same which network an ATM is in (it is only one) and which cards it can work with (this can be multiple). For example, the ATM I have just in from of my flat is operated by CajaCanarias (a caja is bank-like organisation typical of Spain), it belongs to the Red 6000 network like all CajaCanarias' ATMs and all ATMs from other cajas, and it accepts Visa, MasterCard, Cirrus, American Express and other cards. Cards emitted by CajaCanarias can be Maestro, MasterCard or Visa but they always carry the Red 6000 logo, and I can use them without fees in all ATMs from CajaGalicia, CAM, CajaCM and others, but I can not use it freely on Servired ATMs like Banca March, CajaMadrid, BBVA or Banco Santander: it will work, but I will pay fees. So, operator=CajaCanarias brand=Red 6000 ? Thanks Noel er Envite ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] atms with names?
In the USA, an A(M is usually a member of multiple networks, sometimes ten or more, and will usually have decals on the front of the machine identifying which networks it is a member of. You can use the machine if your bank is a member of any of those networks, but may have to pay a surcharge if the bank operating the ATM is not your bank. So, there needs to be provision for belonging to more than one network, either with multiple network tags or by allowing a semicolon- list. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] atms with names? From :mailto:env...@rolamasao.org Date :Fri Oct 22 12:59:54 America/Chicago 2010 On Viernes 22 Octubre 2010 18:29:58 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer escribió: 2010/10/22 Noel David Torres Taño env...@rolamasao.org: On Viernes 22 Octubre 2010 17:58:04 Peter Budny escribió: What is wrong with the operator=* or brand=* tags? +1 to both name=* to me would equate to the name that appears on my bank statement, like Student Center Post Office ATM or Lenox Square Mall ATM. It sounds like what you're describing fits in operator=* or brand=*. I don't know about network=*... even though they're called networks, that seems like a different meaning from the existing uses of network=* in OSM. I've asked about this too. I can understand that name=* refers to a specific name of the particular ATM, like Lenox Square Mall ATM as you said. But where to write Banca March (bank) and where to write Servired (network)? Which one is operator=* and which one is brand=* ? operator is Banca March (the bank that set up the atm and puts money in when it's empty), the network is Servired and this could also be expressed as brand. This might be OK for most cases. I can imagine cases where it creates problems, because network could be more then one, brand could then refer to the brand of the bank that set up the atm and operator would be the bank that operates it. Brand and operator are not the same in all cases. Using brand with multiple values feeld incorrect to me, because it is not the brands of the atm but it is networks where it is affiliated with. cheers, Martin It is not the same which network an ATM is in (it is only one) and which cards it can work with (this can be multiple). For example, the ATM I have just in from of my flat is operated by CajaCanarias (a caja is bank-like organisation typical of Spain), it belongs to the Red 6000 network like all CajaCanarias' ATMs and all ATMs from other cajas, and it accepts Visa, MasterCard, Cirrus, American Express and other cards. Cards emitted by CajaCanarias can be Maestro, MasterCard or Visa but they always carry the Red 6000 logo, and I can use them without fees in all ATMs from CajaGalicia, CAM, CajaCM and others, but I can not use it freely on Servired ATMs like Banca March, CajaMadrid, BBVA or Banco Santander: it will work, but I will pay fees. So, operator=CajaCanarias brand=Red 6000 ? Thanks Noel er Envite ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
