Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
OK, I've just merged both pages into Key:min_age [1] and Key:max_age [2], added a note, describing why and translated both pages into German. So for me the discussion is finished. If anyone doesn't like, that it's now min_age instead of minage: Please discuss it here or on the respective talk-page. I won't mind, if you would move it to minage/maxage. My primary goal was to merge both into one place. Could anyone align the french translations [1] [2]? My French is too bad for that. Cheers, Florian [1]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:min_age [2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:max_age [3]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:minage [4]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:maxage Am 21.07.2014 01:24, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Am 19/lug/2014 um 21:12 schrieb John Packer john.pack...@gmail.com: It seems using minage for usage is not very different from admission in case of a playground. In case of a school, it would be better to describe the school teaching level using isced:level=* or some country-specific tag. +1, don't see the need for two different tags. I'd use min_age cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
2014-07-22 18:31 GMT+02:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: Hello everyone! Target minage (age_group) should be different from legal minage (current tag min_age). generally agree (there might be exceptions etc., and it really is not a strictly legal restriction but more kind of a guideline in the cases I know of). Still as mentioned before, for schools and kindergartens there is ISCED level as a tag for an international standard. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
I hear about ISCED for the first time but this is great standard (based on en:wiki description). It is questionable how easily this information (ISCED level) can be mapped. I question that every kindergarten headmistress (esp in countryside) may answer their ISCED level. Think about India or some country that not really familiar (not uses) ISCED. Other way: every single headmistress will say you age_group of their kindergarten (6-8, 6-7, 5-7).but how well does it maps to ISCED age_group will be simple answer everywhere on earth ISCED will be easy answer when you have database with kindergartens of some developed country. It will definetly clarify age_group. 2014-07-22 20:58 GMT+04:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-07-22 18:31 GMT+02:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com: Hello everyone! Target minage (age_group) should be different from legal minage (current tag min_age). generally agree (there might be exceptions etc., and it really is not a strictly legal restriction but more kind of a guideline in the cases I know of). Still as mentioned before, for schools and kindergartens there is ISCED level as a tag for an international standard. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Am 22.07.2014 18:58, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2014-07-22 18:31 GMT+02:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com mailto:acr...@gmail.com: Hello everyone! Target minage (age_group) should be different from legal minage (current tag min_age). generally agree (there might be exceptions etc., and it really is not a strictly legal restriction but more kind of a guideline in the cases I know of). Still as mentioned before, for schools and kindergartens there is ISCED level as a tag for an international standard. But ISCED doesn't define an age. It just says this is a kindergarten, but not: this kindergarten admits children who are insert an age or older for example. In my opinion there should be some tag (let it be age_group, or min_age:usage or something else). This was exactly what I meant in my initial mail, where I invented min_age:usage and min_age:admission for this purpose. A casino or betting office might have legal restrictions, which prevent underage people from entering. But a school, kindergarten or playground normally has not, otherwise e.g. parents would be locked out of these places. Normally you can decide, if it's a legal restriction by looking at the type of amenity (playground = guidline, casino = legal), but I could imagine, there are edge cases (maybe adventure-playground with legal restrictions for people under some age, because it's too dangerous). But overall I'm currently quite happy with the non-differentiating solution. Cheers, Florian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Am 22.07.2014 18:58, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2014-07-22 18:31 GMT+02:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com mailto:acr...@gmail.com: Hello everyone! Target minage (age_group) should be different from legal minage (current tag min_age). generally agree (there might be exceptions etc., and it really is not a strictly legal restriction but more kind of a guideline in the cases I know of). Still as mentioned before, for schools and kindergartens there is ISCED level as a tag for an international standard. +1 Please, also think about the existing confusion and about the future. Mappers will always mix up the tags/definitions if tag names are that similar. If we need different tags for legal vs providing/dedicated we should use a completely different tag like age_group=* , dedicated_age=* or similar. By the way there is no kindergarten [1] nor school tagged with *age* or min* so far. min_age is not mentioned on both wiki pages. e.g. we should remove the example on the min_age wiki page. Cheers fly [1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=kindergarten#combinations [2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=school#combinations ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Am 22.07.2014 19:28, schrieb fly: Am 22.07.2014 18:58, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2014-07-22 18:31 GMT+02:00 Никита acr...@gmail.com mailto:acr...@gmail.com: Hello everyone! Target minage (age_group) should be different from legal minage (current tag min_age). generally agree (there might be exceptions etc., and it really is not a strictly legal restriction but more kind of a guideline in the cases I know of). Still as mentioned before, for schools and kindergartens there is ISCED level as a tag for an international standard. +1 Please, also think about the existing confusion and about the future. Mappers will always mix up the tags/definitions if tag names are that similar. +1, different tags make sense. Ideally something, that immediately makes the difference clear (something containing recommended or dedicated would be good). If we need different tags for legal vs providing/dedicated we should use a completely different tag like age_group=* , dedicated_age=* or similar. I've found 72 schools and kindergartens that have minage=* with overpass-turbo [1]. That's reasonably much for a tag with ~600 uses. By the way there is no kindergarten [1] nor school tagged with *age* or min* so far. min_age is not mentioned on both wiki pages. e.g. we should remove the example on the min_age wiki page. Cheers fly [1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=kindergarten#combinations [2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=school#combinations Cheers, Florian [1]: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4iJ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Am 22.07.2014 19:43, schrieb Florian Schäfer: Am 22.07.2014 19:28, schrieb fly: Please, also think about the existing confusion and about the future. Mappers will always mix up the tags/definitions if tag names are that similar. +1, different tags make sense. Ideally something, that immediately makes the difference clear (something containing recommended or dedicated would be good). If we need different tags for legal vs providing/dedicated we should use a completely different tag like age_group=* , dedicated_age=* or similar. I've found 72 schools and kindergartens that have minage=* with overpass-turbo [3]. That's reasonably much for a tag with ~600 uses. You probably meant amenity=school instead of building, but thanks for pointing out. By the way there is no kindergarten [1] nor school [2] tagged with *age* or min* so far. min_age is not mentioned on both wiki pages. Wounder why taginfo does not list them. Bug ?? e.g. we should remove the example on the min_age wiki page. Still think we should remove the example or at least move it downwards and adding a comment up the mentioned problems. fly [1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=kindergarten#combinations [2] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenityvalue=school#combinations [3]: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/4iJ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Am 19/lug/2014 um 21:12 schrieb John Packer john.pack...@gmail.com: It seems using minage for usage is not very different from admission in case of a playground. In case of a school, it would be better to describe the school teaching level using isced:level=* or some country-specific tag. +1, don't see the need for two different tags. I'd use min_age cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Hello, I've just stumbled upon the two keys min_age=* and minage=*. Both have a WIki-page and seem to mean a similar thing: * min_age: It is used when the visitors of an amenity need to have a minimum age in years. * minage: It tells you how old you have to be to enter a shop, venue, building or any kind of place where people can enter. In my eyes one of them should be eliminated. If you look at the key-usage, min_age is only 6x (max_age only 1x) used, whereas minage is used ~600x (maxage ~500x). Nevertheless, my favourite is min_age, because it's more readable. When I first saw the tag minage=*, I first thought about menage or the French word for mining, rather than minimum age. But I see another problem with this tag: The wiki-page of min_age=* [1] suggests to use it with amenity=school, the wiki-page of minage=* [2] suggests to use it with shop=erotic and the wiki-pages of maxage=* [3] and max_age=* [4] suggest to use it with leisure=playground. In my opinion, we need two different tags for this. One should tell me the minimum/maximum age required to enter something (e.g. an erotic-shop or the track of a rollercoaster) and the other should tell me the minimum/maximum age required to use something (e.g. a playground, a kindergarten or a school). The latter would allow people who do not fit the requirement to enter the object, but would disallow them to use it (or use services, that are provided there). I'd propose to use for example min_age:usage and min_age:admission (analog for maximum age) to distinguish the different cases. What do you think? Cheers, Florian [1]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:min_age [2]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:minage [3]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxage [3]: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:max_age signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Hi, I'm for minage. Compare with minspeed and maxspeed, for example. -- Cheers, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
Both variants (compound spelling and underscore) exist. See min_height or building:min_level for example, which are used in (esp. 3D-)building-tagging. The highway-related tags minspeed, maxspeed and maxheight use the compound spelling indeed, but they are way more readable than minage in my opinion, as explained in my previous mail. Cheers, Florian Am 19.07.2014 18:57, schrieb Andrew Shadura: Hi, I'm for minage. Compare with minspeed and maxspeed, for example. -- Cheers, Andrew signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] min_age vs. minage
My first impression is that minage should be used only for admission into the place. It seems using minage for usage is not very different from admission in case of a playground. In case of a school, it would be better to describe the school teaching level using isced:level=* or some country-specific tag. 2014-07-19 14:43 GMT-03:00 Florian Schäfer flor...@schaeferban.de: Both variants (compound spelling and underscore) exist. See min_height or building:min_level for example, which are used in (esp. 3D-)building-tagging. The highway-related tags minspeed, maxspeed and maxheight use the compound spelling indeed, but they are way more readable than minage in my opinion, as explained in my previous mail. Cheers, Florian Am 19.07.2014 18:57, schrieb Andrew Shadura: Hi, I'm for minage. Compare with minspeed and maxspeed, for example. -- Cheers, Andrew ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
