Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

How far should use of this tag extend?

Should https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/63985402 be a lifeboat_station?
No, it certainly doesn't have a lifeboat of it's own, but it is responsible
for coordinating & controlling Rescue activities for the English Channel &
a lot of SE England.

Currently dual-tagged as amenity=coastguard + emergency_service=water
(which doesn't even have a page, despite ~250 uses, & on checking, a lot of
these uses seem like they should be =lifeguard).

If not lifeboat, what would be a good tag for a Coastguard radio / control
base?

Thanks

Graeme


On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 10:09, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> As emergency=lifeboat_station seems like it may be the most popular
> option, I have now added details to the previously virtually blank page:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dlifeboat_station
>
> All opinions / comments welcome!
>
> So, if we proceed with this option, the opposing tags,
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dlifeboat_station,
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dmarine_rescue
> (together with a couple of other undocumented options) should be marked as
> deprecated.
>
> Do we need a full Proposal to deprecate them, or can it just be done?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 at 17:08, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 10/11/22 14:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>> > Another question!
>> >
>> > In a number of places e.g. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1nBt the Rescue
>> > unit has two buildings - an admin base / radio room / lookout tower,
>> > usually overlooking the river mouth, together with a boatshed a bit
>> > further upriver e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/244664674 &
>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/939551533.
>> >
>> > I would use the same emergency tag on both of them - would we all
>> > agree that that would be correct?
>>
>>
>> The same problem exists with fire services .. a 'fire station', a 'fire
>> control centre' .. and just recently came across a 'fire training
>> centre'. I think they are all tagged 'fire_station'.
>>
>> Possibly some sub tags could be had of
>> fire_station=control_centre/training_centre/emergency_service ???
>>
>>
>> I think =lifeboat_station is the better value and 'emergency' the better
>> key.
>>
>> If they have no boat nor anyway other than swimming then they are not a
>> lifeboat station .. at best a life guard station for which tags already
>> exist.
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

As emergency=lifeboat_station seems like it may be the most popular option,
I have now added details to the previously virtually blank page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dlifeboat_station

All opinions / comments welcome!

So, if we proceed with this option, the opposing tags,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dlifeboat_station,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dmarine_rescue (together
with a couple of other undocumented options) should be marked as deprecated.

Do we need a full Proposal to deprecate them, or can it just be done?

Thanks

Graeme


On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 at 17:08, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 10/11/22 14:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> > Another question!
> >
> > In a number of places e.g. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1nBt the Rescue
> > unit has two buildings - an admin base / radio room / lookout tower,
> > usually overlooking the river mouth, together with a boatshed a bit
> > further upriver e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/244664674 &
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/939551533.
> >
> > I would use the same emergency tag on both of them - would we all
> > agree that that would be correct?
>
>
> The same problem exists with fire services .. a 'fire station', a 'fire
> control centre' .. and just recently came across a 'fire training
> centre'. I think they are all tagged 'fire_station'.
>
> Possibly some sub tags could be had of
> fire_station=control_centre/training_centre/emergency_service ???
>
>
> I think =lifeboat_station is the better value and 'emergency' the better
> key.
>
> If they have no boat nor anyway other than swimming then they are not a
> lifeboat station .. at best a life guard station for which tags already
> exist.
>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Warin]

On 10/11/22 14:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

Another question!

In a number of places e.g. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1nBt the Rescue 
unit has two buildings - an admin base / radio room / lookout tower, 
usually overlooking the river mouth, together with a boatshed a bit 
further upriver e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/244664674 & 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/939551533.


I would use the same emergency tag on both of them - would we all 
agree that that would be correct?



The same problem exists with fire services .. a 'fire station', a 'fire 
control centre' .. and just recently came across a 'fire training 
centre'. I think they are all tagged 'fire_station'.


Possibly some sub tags could be had of 
fire_station=control_centre/training_centre/emergency_service ???



I think =lifeboat_station is the better value and 'emergency' the better 
key.


If they have no boat nor anyway other than swimming then they are not a 
lifeboat station .. at best a life guard station for which tags already 
exist.


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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Another question!

In a number of places e.g. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1nBt the Rescue unit
has two buildings - an admin base / radio room / lookout tower, usually
overlooking the river mouth, together with a boatshed a bit further upriver
e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/244664674 &
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/939551533.

I would use the same emergency tag on both of them - would we all agree
that that would be correct?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 18:14, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> I think so?
>
>
> Nov 9, 2022, 07:45 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>
> Thanks!
>
> Once again, would =lifeboat_station cover them?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 16:38, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> Fixed link on it.
>
> By looking at https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/ there are two that
> are definitely
> serious inland ones, maybe four of them among operated by MOPR.
>
> And yes, there are only few of them - but still, ideally they would be
> covered
> by nonconfusing tagging (none of "=marine_rescue redefined to not be
> marine")
>
> And I expect that other countries with major freshwater lakes and major
> rivers
> also have them already or will have them in future.
>
> Nov 9, 2022, 01:38 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>
> Thanks, but are they usually found inland?
>
> I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only
> one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has
> changed?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700
>
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html
>
> (Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>
> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they
> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they
> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>
> MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/ lists what MOPR operates
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

I think so?


Nov 9, 2022, 07:45 by graemefi...@gmail.com:

> Thanks!
>
> Once again, would =lifeboat_station cover them?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 16:38, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <> 
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>> Fixed link on it.
>>
>> By looking at >> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/>>  there are two 
>> that are definitely
>> serious inland ones, maybe four of them among operated by MOPR.
>>
>> And yes, there are only few of them - but still, ideally they would be 
>> covered
>> by nonconfusing tagging (none of "=marine_rescue redefined to not be marine")
>>
>> And I expect that other countries with major freshwater lakes and major 
>> rivers
>> also have them already or will have them in future.
>>
>> Nov 9, 2022, 01:38 by >> graemefi...@gmail.com>> :
>>
>>> Thanks, but are they usually found inland?
>>>
>>> I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only 
>>> one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has 
>>> changed?
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700
>>>
>>> https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html
>>>
>>> (Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <>>> 
>>> tagging@openstreetmap.org>>> > wrote:
>>>



 Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by  graemefi...@gmail.com :

> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they 
> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they 
> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>
 MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:

 https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/  lists what MOPR operates

 https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD

 https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/


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>>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks!

Once again, would =lifeboat_station cover them?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 16:38, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Fixed link on it.
>
> By looking at https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/ there are two that
> are definitely
> serious inland ones, maybe four of them among operated by MOPR.
>
> And yes, there are only few of them - but still, ideally they would be
> covered
> by nonconfusing tagging (none of "=marine_rescue redefined to not be
> marine")
>
> And I expect that other countries with major freshwater lakes and major
> rivers
> also have them already or will have them in future.
>
> Nov 9, 2022, 01:38 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>
> Thanks, but are they usually found inland?
>
> I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only
> one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has
> changed?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700
>
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html
>
> (Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>
> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they
> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they
> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>
> MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/ lists what MOPR operates
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Fixed link on it.

By looking at https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/ there are two that are 
definitely
serious inland ones, maybe four of them among operated by MOPR.

And yes, there are only few of them - but still, ideally they would be covered
by nonconfusing tagging (none of "=marine_rescue redefined to not be marine")

And I expect that other countries with major freshwater lakes and major rivers
also have them already or will have them in future.

Nov 9, 2022, 01:38 by graemefi...@gmail.com:

> Thanks, but are they usually found inland?
>
> I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only one 
> mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has 
> changed?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html
>
> (Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <> 
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by >> graemefi...@gmail.com>> :
>>
>>> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they 
>>> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they 
>>> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>>>
>> MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:
>>
>> https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/>>  lists what MOPR operates
>>
>> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD
>>
>> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks!

Would =lifeboat_station work for them, together with =fire_station?

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 13:33, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Fire_%26_Rescue
>
> My local Fire & Rescue department has 3 "stations" with rescue or fire
> boats on the river. For example "Station #21" is on the river, it has a
> fire boat and a rescue boat. The boats are in a boathouse on a pier, while
> the fire truck is in a separate building up on the shore. It's currently
> mapped as a separate amenity=fire_station -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/392193354 - but perhaps some kind of
> "water rescue" tag is more appropriate.
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:41 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, but are they usually found inland?
>>
>> I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only
>> one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has
>> changed?
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700
>>
>>
>> https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html
>>
>> (Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
>> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>>>
>>> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they
>>> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they
>>> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>>>
>>> MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:
>>>
>>> https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/ lists what MOPR operates
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD
>>>
>>> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Fire_%26_Rescue

My local Fire & Rescue department has 3 "stations" with rescue or fire
boats on the river. For example "Station #21" is on the river, it has a
fire boat and a rescue boat. The boats are in a boathouse on a pier, while
the fire truck is in a separate building up on the shore. It's currently
mapped as a separate amenity=fire_station -
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/392193354 - but perhaps some kind of
"water rescue" tag is more appropriate.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:41 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Thanks, but are they usually found inland?
>
> I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only
> one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has
> changed?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700
>
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html
>
> (Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>>
>> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they
>> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they
>> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>>
>> MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:
>>
>> https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/ lists what MOPR operates
>>
>>
>> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD
>>
>> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/
>>
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks, but are they usually found inland?

I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only
one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has
changed?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700

https://mopr.com.pl/1-nasza-stacja/stacje-i-ratownicy-gizycko-galeria-stacji.html

(Either that, or the previous mapper made a mistake! :-))

Thanks

Graeme


On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 09:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by graemefi...@gmail.com:
>
> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they
> should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they
> would be better shown as a lifeguard base?
>
> MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/ lists what MOPR operates
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD
>
> https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Nov 9, 2022, 00:19 by graemefi...@gmail.com:

> Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they should 
> actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they would be 
> better shown as a lifeguard base?
>
MOPR and MOPR Giżycko station specifically for example has proper boats:

https://mopr.com.pl/sprzet/ lists what MOPR operates

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x46e188778f5ccdbb%3A0x59ce788583f65b5a!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sMOPR%20Gi%C5%BCycko%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ=!1e10!2sAF1QipPer7fMBHgyY5wg8EFphzvbrhgS-pl2WK4Exnc=en=X=2ahUKEwjcgO7d3p_7AhUxXvEDHdiDBj0Qoip6BQi9ARAD

https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/


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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they
should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they
would be better shown as a lifeguard base?

Examples, with some websites included:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/299123258 +
https://www.wasserwacht-woerthsee.de/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9151311469 + https://www.slrgo.ch/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9957154743

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/965027465

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/66850852

Some fire stations, that possibly also carry out on-water rescues? Should
they also be tagged as "water" rescue, or just as a fire station?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/629239460

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/931856197

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/87339014

In regard of use of boats for rescue purposes,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_rescue_boat &
https://sls.com.au/role/jet-rescue-boat-crew/ both relate to rescue boats
that are primarily used by lifeguards for rescuing swimmers in distress.
The fact that they have a boat, does not make them a marine-rescue unit, as
they are intended for work close to the beach only, not in blue water.

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 at 20:02, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 8/11/22 09:00, Tom Pfeifer wrote:
> > On 07.11.2022 10:57, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
> >
> >>  Favoring emergency=marine_rescue seems sensible to me
> >>
> >>
> >> What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine"
> fitting there?
> > Not really.  emergency=lifeboat_station  implies the presence of a boat.
> Not all water rescue
> > related infrastructure has a boat, and not all is located directly at
> the coast line or river bank.
> > "marine" implies salt water.
>
>
> If no boat .. then how do they rescue on water?
>
> Helicopter? Would they not also rescue on land?
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Warin]

On 8/11/22 09:00, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

On 07.11.2022 10:57, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:


 Favoring emergency=marine_rescue seems sensible to me


What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine" fitting 
there?

Not really.  emergency=lifeboat_station  implies the presence of a boat. Not 
all water rescue
related infrastructure has a boat, and not all is located directly at the coast 
line or river bank.
"marine" implies salt water.



If no boat .. then how do they rescue on water?

Helicopter? Would they not also rescue on land?



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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Peter Neale via Tagging]

I agree; whilst we often need to explain, or refine, a definition in the Wiki, 
we should NOT radically change the definitions of words.  "Marine" means 
"relating to or found in the sea" (Oxford Dictionaries), so we should not 
re-define it to mean "relating to any watery object".
The Wiki should be amended to align more closely to real life.
Regards,Peter(PeterPan99)

On Tuesday, 8 November 2022 at 08:16:05 GMT, Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:  
 
 

sent from a phone

> On 8 Nov 2022, at 08:17, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging 
>  wrote:
> 
> Having tag name that clearly excludes freshwater water rescue and changing it
> in description is highly confusing and I would prefer to avoid it if at all 
> possible.


exactly, it does not work and would lead to problems in the future. While you 
can write in the wiki that black is green, people are going to ignore it or 
miss it and continue to expect that black should be black and green not be a 
part of the blacks.

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 8 Nov 2022, at 08:17, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging 
>  wrote:
> 
> Having tag name that clearly excludes freshwater water rescue and changing it
> in description is highly confusing and I would prefer to avoid it if at all 
> possible.


exactly, it does not work and would lead to problems in the future. While you 
can write in the wiki that black is green, people are going to ignore it or 
miss it and continue to expect that black should be black and green not be a 
part of the blacks.

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Nov 7, 2022, 23:05 by graemefi...@gmail.com:

>
>
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 20:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <> 
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine" 
>> fitting there?
>>
>
> That one's easily covered by definition, as in the original marine-rescue 
> proposal:
>
> "the base areas or buildings of groups, sometimes Government operated, but 
> also frequently volunteer only, dedicated to the rescue of vessels / sailors 
> in distress, usually in Open or Coastal waters, but also possibly in inland 
> waters. They may also be involved in rescue operations on coastal cliffs, mud 
> flats etc."
>
Having tag name that clearly excludes freshwater water rescue and changing it
in description is highly confusing and I would prefer to avoid it if at all 
possible.

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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 at 08:07, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:

>
> Not really.  emergency=lifeboat_station  implies the presence of a boat.
> Not all water rescue
> related infrastructure has a boat, and not all is located directly at the
> coast line or river bank.
> "marine" implies salt water.
>

Yes, marine-rescue / lifeboat-station does imply the use of a boat, as they
are primarily involved in "the saving of life at sea" (borrowing from at
least one motto). Safety / rescue of swimmers at a beach or similar
location, is usually the responsibilty of lifeguards, although both groups
can, & do, cross-over on occasion.

Maybe emergency=water_rescue ?
>

Again, that seems closer to a lifeguard

 Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 20:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine"
> fitting there?
>

That one's easily covered by definition, as in the original marine-rescue
proposal:

"the base areas or buildings of groups, sometimes Government operated, but
also frequently volunteer only, dedicated to the rescue of vessels /
sailors in distress, usually in Open or Coastal waters, but also possibly
in inland waters. They may also be involved in rescue operations on coastal
cliffs, mud flats etc."

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 07.11.2022 10:57, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

> Favoring emergency=marine_rescue seems sensible to me
> 
> 
> What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine" 
> fitting there?

Not really.  emergency=lifeboat_station  implies the presence of a boat. Not 
all water rescue
related infrastructure has a boat, and not all is located directly at the coast 
line or river bank.
"marine" implies salt water.

Maybe emergency=water_rescue ?

Having a boat, a diving department, or being located at the shore can all be 
expressed in sub-tags.

tom

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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Nov 7, 2022, 00:27 by jm...@gmx.com:

>
> On 11/6/2022 6:18 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I definitely agree that it should be emergency=, ratherthan 
>> amenity=. I must also admit to a slight personalpreference for 
>> =marine_rescue :-), but the vast majority ofusage is in the UK & 
>> Western Europe, where =lifeboatseems to be the most popular, so 
>> I'm happy to go along withthat.
>>
>> I'll see if there's any other comments before starting afull RFC
>>
>
> "Lifeboat" is an ambiguous term  -- it even has a disambiguation  page on 
> Wikipedia  which lists > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(shipboard)>  
> ahead of > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(rescue)>  .
>
>
> Favoring emergency=marine_rescue seems sensible to me
>
>

What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine" fitting 
there?

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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 09:30, Jmapb  wrote:

> "Lifeboat" is an ambiguous term  -- it even has a disambiguation page on
> Wikipedia  which lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(shipboard)
> ahead of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(rescue) .
>
Yes, that is a possibility, although =lifeboat_station should remove any
ambiguity?


> Favoring emergency=marine_rescue seems sensible to me.
>
& turning that around, a number of previous comments were concerned that
"marine rescue" was only in the open sea, thus ignoring rescue groups in
inland rivers & lakes?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Jmapb]

On 11/6/2022 6:18 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:



I definitely agree that it should be emergency=, rather than amenity=. 
I must also admit to a slight personal preference for =marine_rescue 
:-), but the vast majority of usage is in the UK & Western Europe, 
where =lifeboat seems to be the most popular, so I'm happy to go along 
with that.


I'll see if there's any other comments before starting a full RFC


"Lifeboat" is an ambiguous term  -- it even has a disambiguation page on 
Wikipedia  which lists 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(shipboard) ahead of 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(rescue) .


Favoring emergency=marine_rescue seems sensible to me.

J
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 at 19:08, Illia Marchenko 
wrote:

> One tag is enough. I prefer emergency=lifeboat_station  because
> "emergency" is a narrower key.
>

Thanks, Illia.

I definitely agree that it should be emergency=, rather than amenity=. I
must also admit to a slight personal preference for =marine_rescue :-), but
the vast majority of usage is in the UK & Western Europe, where =lifeboat
seems to be the most popular, so I'm happy to go along with that.

I'll see if there's any other comments before starting a full RFC

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

[Illia Marchenko]

One tag is enough. I prefer emergency=lifeboat_station  because "emergency"
is a narrower key.

вс, 6 нояб. 2022 г., 9:17 Graeme Fitzpatrick :

> Some time ago, I raised a proposal for Marine Rescue stations:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Marine_rescue.
> After a few weeks, I returned it to draft status, pending the resolution of
> the Military Bases proposal which was also going through at that time, but
> despite that, it’s now in use ~250 times!
>
>
> One of the concerns that were raised at the time was the existence of two
> other, similar tags: emergency=lifeboat_station 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Aemergency%3Dlifeboat_station
> &
> 
> also amenity=lifeboat_station
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dlifeboat_station, both
> of which were created by the same mapper on the same day, & neither of
> which were apparently ever discussed?
>
>
> These two tags have been used a similar number of times (400 – 450), but
> when I’ve looked at a number of them at random, both tags have been used
> together on a lot of locations e.g
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/260096274,
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/894864797, &
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/444884651.
>
>
> It would seem somewhat ridiculous to have three virtually identical tags
> describing the same thing, as well as two tags on the same POI, so I am
> suggesting that they all be consolidated into one tag, with the other two
> being deprecated.
>
>
> Before proceeding with that discussion though, is there any reason to tag
> something as both an amenity= & also emergency=?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
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