Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
On 05/07/18 08:32, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 4. Jul 2018, at 22:50, marc marc wrote: but I never see a building having a "public typology or style". e.g. courthouses, townhalls, office buildings for the public administration, etc. Just as some miss tag an area of trees as landuse=forest so some will miss tag a building for its present use rather than its appearance. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
sent from a phone > On 4. Jul 2018, at 22:50, marc marc wrote: > > but I never see a building having a "public typology or style". e.g. courthouses, townhalls, office buildings for the public administration, etc. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
Le 04. 07. 18 à 20:04, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > You can interpret building=public as a building erected for the public > administration why a building was erected is not describing what it look like. some "public" building look like as a building=residential or house, or building=appartements or building=industrial or building=castel but I never see a building having a "public typology or style". ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
sent from a phone > On 4. Jul 2018, at 17:32, Jmapb wrote: > > But it's definitely an outlier. it is not necessarily an outlier. You can interpret building=public as a building erected for the public administration, regardless of current use. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
On 7/4/2018 10:47 AM, César Martínez Izquierdo wrote: The exception that I've seen is building=public -- this seems most often to indicate the current use rather than the style. it's why it's depreciated a long time ago. Is it? It's never been removed from the wiki. But it's definitely an outlier. J ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
Le 04. 07. 18 à 15:51, Jmapb a écrit : > On 7/4/2018 7:23 AM, marc marc wrote: > >> Le 04. 07. 18 à 12:34, César Martínez Izquierdo a écrit : >>> I think that the best way is to tag their current use (e.g. >>> building=hotel >> the building tag is what the building look like >> so building=castel for exemple >> >> the current use of a bulding is building:use >> so for exemple building:use=residential >> ___ >> > This is my understanding as well -- populate the building tag with > architectural style or original use. (So in this case, maybe > building=manor and building:use=hotel, though I suppose tourism=hotel > indicates the building's use pretty well.) yes tourism=hotel is more common than building:use=hotel So building=manor/castel + tourism=hotel is the more common (good) tag to describe a hotel in a building that look like a manor/castel > The exception that I've seen is building=public -- this seems most often > to indicate the current use rather than the style. it's why it's depreciated a long time ago. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
On 7/4/2018 7:23 AM, marc marc wrote: Le 04. 07. 18 à 12:34, César Martínez Izquierdo a écrit : I think that the best way is to tag their current use (e.g. building=hotel the building tag is what the building look like so building=castel for exemple the current use of a bulding is building:use so for exemple building:use=residential ___ This is my understanding as well -- populate the building tag with architectural style or original use. (So in this case, maybe building=manor and building:use=hotel, though I suppose tourism=hotel indicates the building's use pretty well.) The exception that I've seen is building=public -- this seems most often to indicate the current use rather than the style. j ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
On Wednesday 04 July 2018, César Martínez Izquierdo wrote: > > I wonder if option 1 (manor) is too specific to UK or it can be > applied also to these kind of building. > > OSM wiki states: "The manor tag is intended only for representative > buildings that are in the same time the administrative center of a > large agricultural estate. Buildings lacking this economic feature > should not be tagged.". historic=manor is not UK specific, it is used elsewhere too: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/historic=manor#map However you need to keep in mind that there is also historic=castle + castle_type=manor. Both these have been added to rendering in OSM-Carto recently: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3099 which will likely perpetuate the tagging fragmentation. If historic=manor fits for your cases i would only invent a new tag if there is a clear distinction between the two that is practically verifiable by a mapper without specialized architectural or historic knowledge. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 11:34 AM, César Martínez Izquierdo <
cesar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I wonder the best way to tag Spanish historic farmhouses ("masías"
> [1], "caseríos" [2] "cortijos", "pazos", etc), since I find no proper
> value of "historic" for them.
>
I suggest you contact the creator of http://gk.historic.place/ for this is
where most historic
and heritage tags are rendered and decisions about those tags are made.
But here are
my thoughts on it.
> I think that the best way is to tag their current use (e.g.
> building=hotel, or building=civic+tourism=museum, etc) and then use
> the "historic" tag to note they are a historic farmhouse.
>
This is the wrong way to go. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building - the very first
paragraph explains that building=* describes the building's form, not its
purpose. A deconsecrated
church may have been converted into a hotel, which means it is
building=church +
building:use=hotel + tourism=hotel. Barns are often converted to
accomodation, they are still
building=barn. Use building=* to describe what it looks like, not what it
is used for.
Also, historic=* is not about what it was last used for, but that it is of
historic interest. So a building may
have been constructed as a church (and most people looking at it would
think it was a church), it may
have later been converted to a hotel and is now a shopping centre. The
historical interest is that it was
a church, so historic=church not historic=hotel. Again, the historic tag
is mainly of use on
http://gk.historic.place/ where it causes special rendering to occur in a
clickable overlay.
I see different options for the proper historic value.
>
> 1- historic=manor
> 2- historic=farmhouse
> 3- historic=masia, historic=cortijo, etc
>
> I wonder if option 1 (manor) is too specific to UK or it can be
> applied also to these kind of building.
>
If it meets the requirements of historic=manor then use historic=manor.
OSM
uses British English names for tags and values (except where those values
are names
of things or other types of literal text).
OSM wiki states: "The manor tag is intended only for representative
> buildings that are in the same time the administrative center of a
> large agricultural estate. Buildings lacking this economic feature
> should not be tagged.".
>
OSM wiki needs to be fixed. It is clear, from context, that it should say
"buildings
that WERE" not "buildings that are." I'd fix it myself, but I'm not sure
what was
intended by the qualifying "in the same time."
Regarding option 2, this would be a new value for historic, and I am
> not sure it will really catch the historic relevance of the building.
> We don't tag it as historic because it was a farmhouse, but because of
> its architecture and historic relevance in administering the lands
> surrounding it.
>
You tag it as historic because it causes special rendering on
gk.historic.place. Invent a
new value for historic=* without first discussing it with the maintainer of
that site and you
may not get any special rendering.
The 3rd option (using different values for each kind building) looks a
> bit overkilling, since there are many different names (masía,
> alquería, cortijo, caserío, pazo, cigarral, quinta, carmen, etc, etc)
> and this would create too much tag fragmentation.
>
Indeed. That's why we use British English in tag names. Otherwise each
tag name and
value would have as many variants as there are languages.
As well as historic=* you may find heritage=* is applicable if the building
is officially listed as
Bien de Interés Cultural
by the
Ministry of Education, Culture and Sport. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:heritage#Spain for details of how
to map.
For example, here is the result of going to gk.historic.place, zooming in
to Cardigan, setting the "show more
objects" control to 3, and clicking on the icon for Cardigan Castle.
http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/en/index-en.html?zoom=18=52.082=-4.66081=HaHbHcSaHe=3=w568794249
--
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
In the Veneto region of Italy there are about 300 Venetian Villas tagged as "historic=manor" plus "manor:type=venetian_villa" [1] This could be a model, as the historic function of those villas was most likely very similar to the ones listed in your post. [2] [1] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/A3H [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riviera_del_Brenta#History_of_the_Venetian_villas ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Spanish "manors"
Search in this list for "[Tagging] Manor tagging" around march 14th.
The manor is the area around the house (la finca)
The manor house it the house itself.
Yours,
José Moya
El 4/7/2018 12:36 PM, "César Martínez Izquierdo"
escribió:
> Hi,
>
> I wonder the best way to tag Spanish historic farmhouses ("masías"
> [1], "caseríos" [2] "cortijos", "pazos", etc), since I find no proper
> value of "historic" for them.
>
> They are prominent buildings that are spread all over the country,
> dating from at least the XVII century and in some cases having Roman
> origins. Some of them are still used as farmhouses, but most of them
> are abandoned or have a different use nowadays: museums, hotels,
> private houses, etc. They had great importance in the past since they
> were used to administer the fields surrounding them. Nowadays the are
> relevant from the point of view of architecture and they are also
> important landmarks in the rural areas. They are named (e.g. "Masía
> Tristán") and its name has been extended to identify the area
> surrounding them.
>
> I think that the best way is to tag their current use (e.g.
> building=hotel, or building=civic+tourism=museum, etc) and then use
> the "historic" tag to note they are a historic farmhouse.
>
> I see different options for the proper historic value.
>
> 1- historic=manor
> 2- historic=farmhouse
> 3- historic=masia, historic=cortijo, etc
>
> I wonder if option 1 (manor) is too specific to UK or it can be
> applied also to these kind of building.
>
> OSM wiki states: "The manor tag is intended only for representative
> buildings that are in the same time the administrative center of a
> large agricultural estate. Buildings lacking this economic feature
> should not be tagged.".
>
> Regarding option 2, this would be a new value for historic, and I am
> not sure it will really catch the historic relevance of the building.
> We don't tag it as historic because it was a farmhouse, but because of
> its architecture and historic relevance in administering the lands
> surrounding it.
>
> The 3rd option (using different values for each kind building) looks a
> bit overkilling, since there are many different names (masía,
> alquería, cortijo, caserío, pazo, cigarral, quinta, carmen, etc, etc)
> and this would create too much tag fragmentation.
>
> Finally, there is also historic=farm, but it does not fit in this case
> according its definition.
>
> Opinions?
>
> César Martínez
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masia
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baserri
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortijo
> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazo
>
>
>
> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>César Martínez Izquierdo
>GIS developer
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>SCOLAB: http://www.scolab.es
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>
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