Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I am still struggling a bit about the key that should be used with the events value. Should I keep leisure, as it is now, or change it to landuse? What are your opinions on this, please? Thanks for the help :). On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:06 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: IMHO we do indeed have no need for building=public / civic. if I were back in San Deigo, I might agree with that, but having come to Japan, there is a definite and immediately recognizable distinction of city buildings, *and* they are used quite heavily. There is a known difference and a corresponding need for these facilities - at least the major buildings - to be treated above a standard office building. We recognize this with the amenity=townhall tag, and someone created building=civic for a reason, and I feel there should be a landuse to denote the complex's land differently than the standard commercial use building. Both can be considered vague building types, but on a very generic level, I'd encourage everyone to use more specific building tags. generically, yea they are both office buildings. I'm concerned primarily with the landuse to go with townhall complexes and other admin buildings. It is also not clear from building=public what exactly this indicates (publicly owned and used by a public entity but not generally accessible, publicly owned and open to the general public, privately owned but publicly operated and publicly accessible or even not, publicly owned and privately used). If we start getting into building=public, then yes, there is a lot of ambiguity, which is why I took your suggestion and narrowed it to landuse=public_admin, i'll drop the others from this point forward. For the vast majority of the *administration* buildings, either in California or Japan (and I imagine elsewhere =] ), there is absolutely no ambiguity. Everyone knows the building types I listed : public_admin would the city halls, courthouses, state, and capital buildings, embassies, etc. This is the most important one, IMO. (along with US federal buildings) are definitely government operated. There is zero ambiguity with those. Maybe public is a bad word. how about landuse=civic_admin? Generally I would not deduct any kind of ownership from the building type, and neither from the landuse, and not even from access-tags ;-) You're right - those tags don't really show ownership. And I don't really care about ownership either - mostly purpose. We separate schools because we recognize that is a useful landuse to differentiate - like all the myriad of landuses - public or private, a park is a park, and a school is a school. But for this particular one (cuvic_admin), it is pretty obvious that it is a government operated building. I'm stating that there is a need for a landuse to show purpose for these heavily trafficked (known) civic buildings, just as we denote the others. They are more than an office building, just as a university is more than an office building complex with meeting rooms. The above is the main point of what I'm trying to say. If we were to tag ownership (problematic, might have privacy implications, could be hard to verify with publicly accessible sources) a dedicated new tag should be used, e.g. proprietor, owner, property_of or similar If we get into building=public, yea. But landuse=civic_admin seems pretty cut and dry. Which government ( village / town / city / county-prefecture /state-province / region / federal) is is a question proprietor= could answer, but thats outside my discussion.. your suggestions and rebuttals have helped me think through my points and clarify my opinions. Thanks =D ありがとう (Arigatou) John PS: sorry to hijack leisure=events cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
2014-03-12 20:21 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I am still struggling a bit about the key that should be used with the events value. Should I keep leisure, as it is now, or change it to landuse? What are your opinions on this, please? IMHO there could be a landuse, but landuses hardly is satisfying for a specific object like that of a place dedicated (and equipped) for holding events. leisure is generally used for physical objects, mainly related to sports, like a swimming pool or a soccer or tennis pitch, or also a stadium. I keep insisting that events is not a good choice as it is not self-explaining, and it is not a description of the place itself but of what takes place there. It would be like tagging a church with worship instead of place of worship. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Are there any other keys that may contain the event area value? There may be buildings permanently installed on it or it may even contain nothing, being just a reserved/symbolic use of the land, so it seems to fit in both cases of landuse and leisure. On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-12 20:21 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I am still struggling a bit about the key that should be used with the events value. Should I keep leisure, as it is now, or change it to landuse? What are your opinions on this, please? IMHO there could be a landuse, but landuses hardly is satisfying for a specific object like that of a place dedicated (and equipped) for holding events. leisure is generally used for physical objects, mainly related to sports, like a swimming pool or a soccer or tennis pitch, or also a stadium. I keep insisting that events is not a good choice as it is not self-explaining, and it is not a description of the place itself but of what takes place there. It would be like tagging a church with worship instead of place of worship. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Leisure yes, landuse no. On 12 mars 2014 20:21:23 UTC+01:00, Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com wrote: I am still struggling a bit about the key that should be used with the events value. Should I keep leisure, as it is now, or change it to landuse? What are your opinions on this, please? Thanks for the help :). On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:06 PM, johnw jo...@mac.com wrote: IMHO we do indeed have no need for building=public / civic. if I were back in San Deigo, I might agree with that, but having come to Japan, there is a definite and immediately recognizable distinction of city buildings, *and* they are used quite heavily. There is a known difference and a corresponding need for these facilities - at least the major buildings - to be treated above a standard office building. We recognize this with the amenity=townhall tag, and someone created building=civic for a reason, and I feel there should be a landuse to denote the complex's land differently than the standard commercial use building. Both can be considered vague building types, but on a very generic level, I'd encourage everyone to use more specific building tags. generically, yea they are both office buildings. I'm concerned primarily with the landuse to go with townhall complexes and other admin buildings. It is also not clear from building=public what exactly this indicates (publicly owned and used by a public entity but not generally accessible, publicly owned and open to the general public, privately owned but publicly operated and publicly accessible or even not, publicly owned and privately used). If we start getting into building=public, then yes, there is a lot of ambiguity, which is why I took your suggestion and narrowed it to landuse=public_admin, i'll drop the others from this point forward. For the vast majority of the *administration* buildings, either in California or Japan (and I imagine elsewhere =] ), there is absolutely no ambiguity. Everyone knows the building types I listed : public_admin would the city halls, courthouses, state, and capital buildings, embassies, etc. This is the most important one, IMO. (along with US federal buildings) are definitely government operated. There is zero ambiguity with those. Maybe public is a bad word. how about landuse=civic_admin? Generally I would not deduct any kind of ownership from the building type, and neither from the landuse, and not even from access-tags ;-) You're right - those tags don't really show ownership. And I don't really care about ownership either - mostly purpose. We separate schools because we recognize that is a useful landuse to differentiate - like all the myriad of landuses - public or private, a park is a park, and a school is a school. But for this particular one (cuvic_admin), it is pretty obvious that it is a government operated building. I'm stating that there is a need for a landuse to show purpose for these heavily trafficked (known) civic buildings, just as we denote the others. They are more than an office building, just as a university is more than an office building complex with meeting rooms. The above is the main point of what I'm trying to say. If we were to tag ownership (problematic, might have privacy implications, could be hard to verify with publicly accessible sources) a dedicated new tag should be used, e.g. proprietor, owner, property_of or similar If we get into building=public, yea. But landuse=civic_admin seems pretty cut and dry. Which government ( village / town / city / county-prefecture /state-province / region / federal) is is a question proprietor= could answer, but thats outside my discussion.. your suggestions and rebuttals have helped me think through my points and clarify my opinions. Thanks =D ありがとう (Arigatou) John PS: sorry to hijack leisure=events cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
But still is there any other key other than landuse or leisure that fits better with event_space? On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: On Mar 13, 2014, at 5:32 AM, Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any other keys that may contain the event area value? There may be buildings I keep insisting that events is not a good choice as it is not self-explaining, and it is not a description of the place itself but of what takes place there. It would be like tagging a church with worship instead of place of worship. The term you are looking for might be event_space. They use that term to describe performance venues. event_site might be another. Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
2014-03-12 22:12 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: But still is there any other key other than landuse or leisure that fits better with event_space? for me leisure is OK, amenity would be fine as well. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I think it should be either amenity=* or landuse=*. leisure=* sounds odd, since the place can be vacant most of the time(and not accessible during that time). 2014-03-12 18:15 GMT-03:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-03-12 22:12 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: But still is there any other key other than landuse or leisure that fits better with event_space? for me leisure is OK, amenity would be fine as well. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
On 12 mars 2014 23:00:04 UTC+01:00, John Packer john.pack...@gmail.com wrote: I think it should be either amenity=* or landuse=*. leisure=* sounds odd, since the place can be vacant most of the time(and not accessible during that time). -This is an 'event'. Yves 2014-03-12 18:15 GMT-03:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-03-12 22:12 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: But still is there any other key other than landuse or leisure that fits better with event_space? for me leisure is OK, amenity would be fine as well. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
When I think of leisure=events, I think of facilities (that are not convention centers) where you can hold social and corporate events such as company parties, wedding receptions, small musical concerts, product launchings and the like. Here in my country there are plenty of such facilities and I'm sure other countries do have them. Some examples: The Glass Garden - http://www.theglassgarden.com.ph/ Fernwood Garden - http://fernwoodgarden.com/ NBC Tent - https://www.facebook.com/pages/NBC-TENT/249917111705073 Filinvest Tent - http://www.filinvesttent.com/ Oasis Manila - https://www.facebook.com/TheOasisManila I admit that I have no idea how to tag these places. I was thinking something like amenity=events_venue. Are these facilities also included in your proposed tag? On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.comwrote: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I think places like these event venues with already fixed facilities on the area can be fitted in the event place proposal, but these can sound like amenities or leisures. There are places with no buildings used for festivities that are more like landuses, though. On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: When I think of leisure=events, I think of facilities (that are not convention centers) where you can hold social and corporate events such as company parties, wedding receptions, small musical concerts, product launchings and the like. Here in my country there are plenty of such facilities and I'm sure other countries do have them. Some examples: The Glass Garden - http://www.theglassgarden.com.ph/ Fernwood Garden - http://fernwoodgarden.com/ NBC Tent - https://www.facebook.com/pages/NBC-TENT/249917111705073 Filinvest Tent - http://www.filinvesttent.com/ Oasis Manila - https://www.facebook.com/TheOasisManila I admit that I have no idea how to tag these places. I was thinking something like amenity=events_venue. Are these facilities also included in your proposed tag? On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.comwrote: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Am 10/mar/2014 um 00:36 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: landuse=civic could you give some more examples what fits into this? a public swimming pool? a courthouse? a library? a power station ? A wastewater treatment plant? the homeland security vehicle depot? a museum? a church? the federal money reserves? a government office? a fenced area where drinking water is monitored? what is the definition of civic? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Am 10.03.2014 06:39, schrieb Yves: Many music festival take place on otherwise landuse=meadow +1 And even other shared purpose concepts are pretty common for event spaces, I think: - Sometimes parks (most of the year leisure=park) are used for events regularly. - Many parking spaces (most of the year amenity=parking; parking=surface) are used for events regularly. - Some festivals, as Yves wrote, use places being meadow (landuse=meadow) or similar agricultural ground (these often takes place after harvesting). I'm sure there are even more common combinations, e.g. market places and so on. So for good tagging practise it may be better NOT to use any of the common big keys for the tag, although I agree that it's useful; because landuse, leisure and amenity might be present already with the other properties tagging of these areas. regards Peter ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Am 10.03.2014 um 09:30 schrieb Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: And even other shared purpose concepts are pretty common for event spaces, I think: - Sometimes parks (most of the year leisure=park) are used for events regularly. - Many parking spaces (most of the year amenity=parking; parking=surface) are used for events regularly. - Some festivals, as Yves wrote, use places being meadow (landuse=meadow) or similar agricultural ground (these often takes place after harvesting). There are also musicians in the subway or on the pavement. I think bringing these up is offtopic, as the OP has asked for a tag for a specific place with a specific programme. Other cases like those that you mention might get different tags or sometimes won't be tagged specifically regarding events. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Well, to me, landuse=civic it is the land that public owned, public accessed facilities that not covered by a specific existing landuse (works, water treatment plant, school, landfill, highways, railways). In the built environment (not natural), there are some *general* landuses, such as: - 4 private landuses (residential, industrial, commercial, retail) - 1 Access restricted Public landuse (Military) But absolutely no public built environment general definition landuses. I can choose a specific one for a school, university/college, hospital, landfill, park, recreation ground, airport, etc, but not for the administration offices and other public services provided by the government. They have no generic landuse of their own. - City/town halls, regional / national capital buildings, museum complexes, community centers, arts centers, courthouses, jails, pension offices, DMV, immigration offices, embassies, etc - All of the landuses that would fall under commercial if it was a private institution's offices. I think it it is necessary that hospitals and schools have a separate, specific landuse, Just like a quarry or a landfill, but there has to be a catchall to throw all the myriad of offices into. Now, there are building labels for these buildings, but not for the land surrounding them. In my old suburb of San Diego, I have never been inside the city hall, but it is part of the complex with the fire station, library, police station, post office, and other administrative offices. All have their own building tags - but the landuse? that is a mystery. There is also a community center with a pool, park, and little league field as well - I know how to tag the buildings, and the park's landuse, but the majority of the land that the community center takes up isn't a park. In Japan, people have to go to the city hall very often (for their mountains of paperwork), so the city offices are **very** heavily travelled local and regional landmarks. It's crazy. While tagging these as I would a private office complex (building=commerical / landuse=commercial), I found that building=civic/public has no coorsponding landuse=civic/public tag, nothing remotely close. And nothing existing fits unless I treat it as commercial - which it really isn't. Hence, landuse=civic. A public events venue, which offers a race track, performance venues, skyway, event parking, stadium, and multiple event halls is also a landuse=civic situation, unless another specific landuse tag (landuse=event) is made. Most of the events I'm familiar with are special events that take over a park, stadium, community center, or the main street of the town. The landuse of any stadium (a baseball/football stadium) , arena (San Deigo's sports arena), exposition hall / convention center (Moscone center, Javitz, or Tokyo Big Site), or other event area should then be landuse=event. There is no good specific landuse for them, just the general landuses of civic (public) or commercial (private). so I guess landuse=event is a good idea too. A 70,000 seat stadium isn't a recreation ground, a commercial or retail area, or a park, so landuse=event is pretty good. Having a color added to make it stick out from the map is a good idea too. Javbw On Mar 10, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 10/mar/2014 um 00:36 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: landuse=civic could you give some more examples what fits into this? a public swimming pool? a courthouse? a library? a power station ? A wastewater treatment plant? the homeland security vehicle depot? a museum? a church? the federal money reserves? a government office? a fenced area where drinking water is monitored? what is the definition of civic? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
+1 for leisure (not presuming any combination/overlapping with a landuse) -1 for events (could be misused for any events, not for a dedicated place) +1 for event(s)_space, event(s)_place, event_whateveryoulike Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
2014-03-10 10:52 GMT+01:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: Well, to me, landuse=civic it is the land that public owned, public accessed facilities that not covered by a specific existing landuse (works, water treatment plant, school, landfill, highways, railways). IMHO we should not mix specific and general values in the same key. Either we use only specific or only generic values, (and do subtagging if the main tag is generic). If you want to state the ownership (public/private/etc.) I'd suggest to use an additional tag, otherwise we would end up with different landuse tags for the same feature (say a townhall or a ministry) dependent on the ownership. Additionally it seems quite arbitrary which features are covered by a specific existing landuse and which aren't, so this is a strange criterium, why not invent other specific values for the missing bits? In the built environment (not natural), there are some *general* landuses, such as: - 4 private landuses (residential, industrial, commercial, retail) IMHO there is currently no connotation whether these are private or publicly owned. This is about the use of the area, not about ownership. - 1 Access restricted Public landuse (Military) even military can be private, look at all those private military contractors nowadays. But absolutely no public built environment general definition landuses. I can choose a specific one for a school, university/college, hospital, landfill, park, recreation ground, airport, etc, but not for the administration offices and other public services provided by the government. They have no generic landuse of their own. so far I have used commercial for public administration places. I think it it is necessary that hospitals and schools have a separate, specific landuse, Just like a quarry or a landfill, but there has to be a catchall to throw all the myriad of offices into. If we should introduce a new specific landuse still I believe that civic is too generic. Now, there are building labels for these buildings, but not for the land surrounding them. buildings are orthogonal to these kind of features (one feature can easily be split over several buildings and outdoor areas and facilities, let's not mix this up, the buildling tag says what kind of building this is, not what is inside or how it is used). While tagging these as I would a private office complex (building=commerical / landuse=commercial), I found that building=civic/public has no coorsponding landuse=civic/public tag, nothing remotely close. I'd also question building=civic (way too generic IMHO). building=commercial is some kind of office? There are also more specific tags like building=office_block building=office_tower, etc. for this. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Yes, landuse=civic is too generic It only states that the land is owned by local government, without giving any indication of what the land is used for. Original Message From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Sent: March 10, 2014 3:15:00 AM CDT To: daveswarth...@gmail.com daveswarth...@gmail.com, Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Cc: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] leisure=events Am 10/mar/2014 um 00:36 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: landuse=civic could you give some more examples what fits into this? a public swimming pool? a courthouse? a library? a power station ? A wastewater treatment plant? the homeland security vehicle depot? a museum? a church? the federal money reserves? a government office? a fenced area where drinking water is monitored? what is the definition of civic? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Hi, Sorry, I may be joining this discussion part way through. Has anyone considered 'recreation ground' In the UK there are many, but they are normally referred to as 'recs'. Towns villages often have them - village green or small park used for a variety of purposes, including often by visiting fayres. Regards Nick Volunteer 'Tallguy' for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team Mapping volunteer 'Tallguy' for http://www.openstreetmap.org http://www.openstreetmap.org/ Treasurer, website Bonus Ball admin for http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk mailto:treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk) On 10/03/14 11:36, John F. Eldredge wrote: Yes, landuse=civic is too generic It only states that the land is owned by local government, without giving any indication of what the land is used for. Original Message From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Sent: March 10, 2014 3:15:00 AM CDT To: daveswarth...@gmail.com daveswarth...@gmail.com, Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Cc: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] leisure=events Am 10/mar/2014 um 00:36 schrieb Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: landuse=civic could you give some more examples what fits into this? a public swimming pool? a courthouse? a library? a power station ? A wastewater treatment plant? the homeland security vehicle depot? a museum? a church? the federal money reserves? a government office? a fenced area where drinking water is monitored? what is the definition of civic? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Thanks for the quick reply Martin! I always assumed commercial = company = private. Same with industrial = industry, otherwise we would have no need for building=civic / public. reading through what you wrote, it seem like most of my suggested civic buildings would be landuse=commerical currently. The wiki pages for key:landuse and key:building pairs the buildings with the landuses (landuse=commercial suggests building=commercial, retail too), and there is building=public and building=civic (which is where they suggest using the amenity tags for townhall and community_center) - but crucially no suggested landuse. So I assumed because there is a building/landuse combo for commercial/retail/industrial/residential there would be a pair for civic as well. level too, which leads me to feel there is a gap to be filled with landuse=civic. I think the idea of separating the major public offices by landuse gives us the chance to visually separate them on the map via landuse instead of by building= or amenity= tags. To make a narrower tag definition, landuse=public_admin =public_center would be the next narrowest definitions I can think of. public_admin would the city halls, courthouses, state, and capital buildings, embassies, etc. This is the most important one, IMO. public_center would be the community centers, libraries, public pools, public performance halls, etc. Maybe landuse=event would fall in there too. Thanks again for the quick reply. Tagging seems to have some some very very specific cases, and others where a catchall is used - and understanding the gaps, and why they are there is difficult for me sometimes. Thanks for helping explain the logic behind it. Javbw On Mar 10, 2014, at 7:33 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-10 10:52 GMT+01:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: Well, to me, landuse=civic it is the land that public owned, public accessed facilities that not covered by a specific existing landuse (works, water treatment plant, school, landfill, highways, railways). IMHO we should not mix specific and general values in the same key. Either we use only specific or only generic values, (and do subtagging if the main tag is generic). If you want to state the ownership (public/private/etc.) I'd suggest to use an additional tag, otherwise we would end up with different landuse tags for the same feature (say a townhall or a ministry) dependent on the ownership. Additionally it seems quite arbitrary which features are covered by a specific existing landuse and which aren't, so this is a strange criterium, why not invent other specific values for the missing bits? In the built environment (not natural), there are some *general* landuses, such as: - 4 private landuses (residential, industrial, commercial, retail) IMHO there is currently no connotation whether these are private or publicly owned. This is about the use of the area, not about ownership. - 1 Access restricted Public landuse (Military) even military can be private, look at all those private military contractors nowadays. But absolutely no public built environment general definition landuses. I can choose a specific one for a school, university/college, hospital, landfill, park, recreation ground, airport, etc, but not for the administration offices and other public services provided by the government. They have no generic landuse of their own. so far I have used commercial for public administration places. I think it it is necessary that hospitals and schools have a separate, specific landuse, Just like a quarry or a landfill, but there has to be a catchall to throw all the myriad of offices into. If we should introduce a new specific landuse still I believe that civic is too generic. Now, there are building labels for these buildings, but not for the land surrounding them. buildings are orthogonal to these kind of features (one feature can easily be split over several buildings and outdoor areas and facilities, let's not mix this up, the buildling tag says what kind of building this is, not what is inside or how it is used). While tagging these as I would a private office complex (building=commerical / landuse=commercial), I found that building=civic/public has no coorsponding landuse=civic/public tag, nothing remotely close. I'd also question building=civic (way too generic IMHO). building=commercial is some kind of office? There are also more specific tags like building=office_block building=office_tower, etc. for this. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
2014-03-10 12:48 GMT+01:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: otherwise we would have no need for building=civic / public. IMHO we do indeed have no need for building=public / civic. Both can be considered vague building types, but on a very generic level, I'd encourage everyone to use more specific building tags. It is also not clear from building=public what exactly this indicates (publicly owned and used by a public entity but not generally accessible, publicly owned and open to the general public, privately owned but publicly operated and publicly accessible or even not, publicly owned and privately used). Generally I would not deduct any kind of ownership from the building type, and neither from the landuse, and not even from access-tags ;-) If we were to tag ownership (problematic, might have privacy implications, could be hard to verify with publicly accessible sources) a dedicated new tag should be used, e.g. proprietor, owner, property_of or similar. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Thanks for the support so far, I think the leisure key doesn't fit good in the case, the event-destinated area is not a place where people generally go during the year in their spare time when there is no events, so it is a pretty specific land used and reserved for events. Also, the leisure tag would conflict with other leisures inside the event area (pitches, dance halls, stadiums, tracks, etc.) or even with the area the used land is in, for instance a park, which is the example I've given before, of an area inside a park where I live ( http://binged.it/19kxgU2, the circus/event area is part of a park). So, I think landuse best describes it. I know the conflict the landuse key may cause with meadows or parking lots, but it is mainly used for describe the primary use of land by humans, by its definition at its wiki page; If it's primarily not used for events, it is not properly an event area. Any place can receive events, but not all of them are designated for it. As for recreational grounds, I think what I said here applies to, as its use is not for necessarily for events. Event lands are therefore really designated for that, even though it may be just a ground area (then we can tag landuse=events + surface/landcover/natural). For the value events, it does describe a dedicated place: used for events; It is a general but also specific tag :). If the event comes to be necessary for its mapping, then we could create, as I said before, some tag like event_type with values ranging from corn festivals to world's fairs. Event_space/place would come redundant with the key landuse. On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-10 12:48 GMT+01:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: otherwise we would have no need for building=civic / public. IMHO we do indeed have no need for building=public / civic. Both can be considered vague building types, but on a very generic level, I'd encourage everyone to use more specific building tags. It is also not clear from building=public what exactly this indicates (publicly owned and used by a public entity but not generally accessible, publicly owned and open to the general public, privately owned but publicly operated and publicly accessible or even not, publicly owned and privately used). Generally I would not deduct any kind of ownership from the building type, and neither from the landuse, and not even from access-tags ;-) If we were to tag ownership (problematic, might have privacy implications, could be hard to verify with publicly accessible sources) a dedicated new tag should be used, e.g. proprietor, owner, property_of or similar. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
On Sun, 2014-03-09 at 20:49 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) Fairground is not a good choice, a fairground is often a permanent landuse, certainly not an event. It will have rides, rollercoasters, amusement arcades and the like there that can be mapped any time and other things Americans usually call a fairground and amusement park. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I think areas used for temporary fairs would fit well in landuse=events. The case of a permanent fairground seems to be just like an amusement park, which can be just tagged as tourism=theme_park. What I want to keep clear is that event areas are permanent places for events and are lands reserved for festivities, lands used for a specific purpose (that's why I'm willing to use landuse for that), no matter if events are ever made on it. It is something designated and events are periodical and temporary. On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: On Sun, 2014-03-09 at 20:49 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) Fairground is not a good choice, a fairground is often a permanent landuse, certainly not an event. It will have rides, rollercoasters, amusement arcades and the like there that can be mapped any time and other things Americans usually call a fairground and amusement park. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
IMHO we do indeed have no need for building=public / civic. if I were back in San Deigo, I might agree with that, but having come to Japan, there is a definite and immediately recognizable distinction of city buildings, *and* they are used quite heavily. There is a known difference and a corresponding need for these facilities - at least the major buildings - to be treated above a standard office building. We recognize this with the amenity=townhall tag, and someone created building=civic for a reason, and I feel there should be a landuse to denote the complex's land differently than the standard commercial use building. Both can be considered vague building types, but on a very generic level, I'd encourage everyone to use more specific building tags. generically, yea they are both office buildings. I'm concerned primarily with the landuse to go with townhall complexes and other admin buildings. It is also not clear from building=public what exactly this indicates (publicly owned and used by a public entity but not generally accessible, publicly owned and open to the general public, privately owned but publicly operated and publicly accessible or even not, publicly owned and privately used). If we start getting into building=public, then yes, there is a lot of ambiguity, which is why I took your suggestion and narrowed it to landuse=public_admin, i'll drop the others from this point forward. For the vast majority of the *administration* buildings, either in California or Japan (and I imagine elsewhere =] ), there is absolutely no ambiguity. Everyone knows the building types I listed : public_admin would the city halls, courthouses, state, and capital buildings, embassies, etc. This is the most important one, IMO. (along with US federal buildings) are definitely government operated. There is zero ambiguity with those. Maybe public is a bad word. how about landuse=civic_admin? Generally I would not deduct any kind of ownership from the building type, and neither from the landuse, and not even from access-tags ;-) You're right - those tags don't really show ownership. And I don't really care about ownership either - mostly purpose. We separate schools because we recognize that is a useful landuse to differentiate - like all the myriad of landuses - public or private, a park is a park, and a school is a school. But for this particular one (cuvic_admin), it is pretty obvious that it is a government operated building. I'm stating that there is a need for a landuse to show purpose for these heavily trafficked (known) civic buildings, just as we denote the others. They are more than an office building, just as a university is more than an office building complex with meeting rooms. The above is the main point of what I'm trying to say. If we were to tag ownership (problematic, might have privacy implications, could be hard to verify with publicly accessible sources) a dedicated new tag should be used, e.g. proprietor, owner, property_of or similar If we get into building=public, yea. But landuse=civic_admin seems pretty cut and dry. Which government ( village / town / city / county-prefecture /state-province / region / federal) is is a question proprietor= could answer, but thats outside my discussion.. your suggestions and rebuttals have helped me think through my points and clarify my opinions. Thanks =D ありがとう (Arigatou) John PS: sorry to hijack leisure=events cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I've never heard of fairground, but it seems to be a quite specific tag that could be substituted by or even inside the events area. The events tag is indeed supposed to be generic, just like landuse=retail, which demarks areas used by shops, and the leisure or landuse key before the events value should denote that it is an area where events are carried on (like the ones you cited, circus, shows etc.). Maybe, if the area hosts a single type of event, it is considerable to create too an event_type= key that describes the type of event. I am considering changing back the key leisure to landuse, as it originally was supposed to be, because it is a land used for this purpose and may contain facilities (amenities and leisures) used during the events, such as pitches, toilets, bars and so on. An example of an area like this is a very famous rodeo place here in Brazil called Parque do Peão: http://binged.it/1h4EgcT. As you can see, there is an entire area used for it, where fairs are made and several amenities for the public are found: the rodeo event is not comprised only of the rodeo show made in the arena. And there are many other event-designated places in the world, I believe, thus I think OpenStreetMap is really lacking this kind of tagging. Back to the leisure/landuse discussion, stated some points above I think landuse fits better than leisure and I'd like some more opinions on this matter, please, before changing it back to landuse=events. If there needs any other improvement on this tag, please comment. Thanks. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
It seems to me that landuse=events is reasonable. Most of the places called fairgrounds where I am are used for other events other than the traditional once a year fair. There are often swap meets, animal shows, concerts, and other events held during the year. And the area often (always in my experience but I've not seen many) have amenities on the grounds like toilets, food concessions, etc. Using event_space or event_place seems odd to me: And area already denotes a space or place. We don't say residential_place or industrial_place in our tags, so my preference would be for landuse=events. -Tod On Mar 9, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Antônio Marcos wrote: I've never heard of fairground, but it seems to be a quite specific tag that could be substituted by or even inside the events area. The events tag is indeed supposed to be generic, just like landuse=retail, which demarks areas used by shops, and the leisure or landuse key before the events value should denote that it is an area where events are carried on (like the ones you cited, circus, shows etc.). Maybe, if the area hosts a single type of event, it is considerable to create too an event_type= key that describes the type of event. I am considering changing back the key leisure to landuse, as it originally was supposed to be, because it is a land used for this purpose and may contain facilities (amenities and leisures) used during the events, such as pitches, toilets, bars and so on. An example of an area like this is a very famous rodeo place here in Brazil called Parque do Peão: http://binged.it/1h4EgcT. As you can see, there is an entire area used for it, where fairs are made and several amenities for the public are found: the rodeo event is not comprised only of the rodeo show made in the arena. And there are many other event-designated places in the world, I believe, thus I think OpenStreetMap is really lacking this kind of tagging. Back to the leisure/landuse discussion, stated some points above I think landuse fits better than leisure and I'd like some more opinions on this matter, please, before changing it back to landuse=events. If there needs any other improvement on this tag, please comment. Thanks. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
This ties into my idea for landuse=civic. There is no way to designate the land use for city buildings, etc, except for narrowly defined ones, such as schools. There are courthouses, community centers, public performance venues, and other areas where the buildings have specific tags, but there is no good GENERIC landuse tag to go with it. So for your item, landuse=civic, buildings get the proper tags (stadium, restaurants, community hall, etc) and the name of the place falls on the landuse, individual buildings get their own names. If we use a color (orange?) for civic, then the public buildings That aren't parks and schools should be easily seen, including event areas. Fairgrounds are a common thing in America, and are usually multipurpose venues. San Diego's is a horse racing track, with large pedestrian spaces and buildings adjacent for hosting a circus, trade shows, county fairs, or outdoor concerts, as well as horse racing during the season. If it is a private area, then landuse=commercial. Events is a good idea for a landuse, but we need a couple more generic ones too, and these two seem related to me. Javbw On Mar 10, 2014, at 6:04 AM, Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com wrote: I've never heard of fairground, but it seems to be a quite specific tag that could be substituted by or even inside the events area. The events tag is indeed supposed to be generic, just like landuse=retail, which demarks areas used by shops, and the leisure or landuse key before the events value should denote that it is an area where events are carried on (like the ones you cited, circus, shows etc.). Maybe, if the area hosts a single type of event, it is considerable to create too an event_type= key that describes the type of event. I am considering changing back the key leisure to landuse, as it originally was supposed to be, because it is a land used for this purpose and may contain facilities (amenities and leisures) used during the events, such as pitches, toilets, bars and so on. An example of an area like this is a very famous rodeo place here in Brazil called Parque do Peão: http://binged.it/1h4EgcT. As you can see, there is an entire area used for it, where fairs are made and several amenities for the public are found: the rodeo event is not comprised only of the rodeo show made in the arena. And there are many other event-designated places in the world, I believe, thus I think OpenStreetMap is really lacking this kind of tagging. Back to the leisure/landuse discussion, stated some points above I think landuse fits better than leisure and I'd like some more opinions on this matter, please, before changing it back to landuse=events. If there needs any other improvement on this tag, please comment. Thanks. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I definitely think there is a need for this, I can think of many places around the UK this could apply to. landuse=events is better than leisure=* Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 09/03/2014 21:31, Tod Fitch wrote: It seems to me that landuse=events is reasonable. Most of the places called fairgrounds where I am are used for other events other than the traditional once a year fair. There are often swap meets, animal shows, concerts, and other events held during the year. And the area often (always in my experience but I've not seen many) have amenities on the grounds like toilets, food concessions, etc. Using event_space or event_place seems odd to me: And area already denotes a space or place. We don't say residential_place or industrial_place in our tags, so my preference would be for landuse=events. -Tod On Mar 9, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Antônio Marcos wrote: I've never heard of fairground, but it seems to be a quite specific tag that could be substituted by or even inside the events area. The events tag is indeed supposed to be generic, just like landuse=retail, which demarks areas used by shops, and the leisure or landuse key before the events value should denote that it is an area where events are carried on (like the ones you cited, circus, shows etc.). Maybe, if the area hosts a single type of event, it is considerable to create too an event_type= key that describes the type of event. I am considering changing back the key leisure to landuse, as it originally was supposed to be, because it is a land used for this purpose and may contain facilities (amenities and leisures) used during the events, such as pitches, toilets, bars and so on. An example of an area like this is a very famous rodeo place here in Brazil called Parque do Peão: http://binged.it/1h4EgcT. As you can see, there is an entire area used for it, where fairs are made and several amenities for the public are found: the rodeo event is not comprised only of the rodeo show made in the arena. And there are many other event-designated places in the world, I believe, thus I think OpenStreetMap is really lacking this kind of tagging. Back to the leisure/landuse discussion, stated some points above I think landuse fits better than leisure and I'd like some more opinions on this matter, please, before changing it back to landuse=events. If there needs any other improvement on this tag, please comment. Thanks. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com mailto:toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
I like both of these: landuse=events landuse=civic Regards, Dave On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 4:41 AM, jonathan jonat...@bigfatfrog67.me wrote: I definitely think there is a need for this, I can think of many places around the UK this could apply to. landuse=events is better than leisure=* Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 09/03/2014 21:31, Tod Fitch wrote: It seems to me that landuse=events is reasonable. Most of the places called fairgrounds where I am are used for other events other than the traditional once a year fair. There are often swap meets, animal shows, concerts, and other events held during the year. And the area often (always in my experience but I've not seen many) have amenities on the grounds like toilets, food concessions, etc. Using event_space or event_place seems odd to me: And area already denotes a space or place. We don't say residential_place or industrial_place in our tags, so my preference would be for landuse=events. -Tod On Mar 9, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Antônio Marcos wrote: I've never heard of fairground, but it seems to be a quite specific tag that could be substituted by or even inside the events area. The events tag is indeed supposed to be generic, just like landuse=retail, which demarks areas used by shops, and the leisure or landuse key before the events value should denote that it is an area where events are carried on (like the ones you cited, circus, shows etc.). Maybe, if the area hosts a single type of event, it is considerable to create too an event_type= key that describes the type of event. I am considering changing back the key leisure to landuse, as it originally was supposed to be, because it is a land used for this purpose and may contain facilities (amenities and leisures) used during the events, such as pitches, toilets, bars and so on. An example of an area like this is a very famous rodeo place here in Brazil called Parque do Peão: http://binged.it/1h4EgcT. As you can see, there is an entire area used for it, where fairs are made and several amenities for the public are found: the rodeo event is not comprised only of the rodeo show made in the arena. And there are many other event-designated places in the world, I believe, thus I think OpenStreetMap is really lacking this kind of tagging. Back to the leisure/landuse discussion, stated some points above I think landuse fits better than leisure and I'd like some more opinions on this matter, please, before changing it back to landuse=events. If there needs any other improvement on this tag, please comment. Thanks. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] leisure=events
Many music festival take place on otherwise landuse=meadow On 9 mars 2014 22:41:51 UTC+01:00, jonathan jonat...@bigfatfrog67.me wrote: I definitely think there is a need for this, I can think of many places around the UK this could apply to. landuse=events is better than leisure=* Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 09/03/2014 21:31, Tod Fitch wrote: It seems to me that landuse=events is reasonable. Most of the places called fairgrounds where I am are used for other events other than the traditional once a year fair. There are often swap meets, animal shows, concerts, and other events held during the year. And the area often (always in my experience but I've not seen many) have amenities on the grounds like toilets, food concessions, etc. Using event_space or event_place seems odd to me: And area already denotes a space or place. We don't say residential_place or industrial_place in our tags, so my preference would be for landuse=events. -Tod On Mar 9, 2014, at 2:04 PM, Antônio Marcos wrote: I've never heard of fairground, but it seems to be a quite specific tag that could be substituted by or even inside the events area. The events tag is indeed supposed to be generic, just like landuse=retail, which demarks areas used by shops, and the leisure or landuse key before the events value should denote that it is an area where events are carried on (like the ones you cited, circus, shows etc.). Maybe, if the area hosts a single type of event, it is considerable to create too an event_type= key that describes the type of event. I am considering changing back the key leisure to landuse, as it originally was supposed to be, because it is a land used for this purpose and may contain facilities (amenities and leisures) used during the events, such as pitches, toilets, bars and so on. An example of an area like this is a very famous rodeo place here in Brazil called Parque do Peão: http://binged.it/1h4EgcT. As you can see, there is an entire area used for it, where fairs are made and several amenities for the public are found: the rodeo event is not comprised only of the rodeo show made in the arena. And there are many other event-designated places in the world, I believe, thus I think OpenStreetMap is really lacking this kind of tagging. Back to the leisure/landuse discussion, stated some points above I think landuse fits better than leisure and I'd like some more opinions on this matter, please, before changing it back to landuse=events. If there needs any other improvement on this tag, please comment. Thanks. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-03-09 17:18 GMT+01:00 Antônio Marcos toni.o...@gmail.com mailto:toni.o...@gmail.com: I have created this proposal some time ago for a new tag called leisure=events (originally landuse=events), which should describe areas reserved for events in a city or in a place (more info at the proposal page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/leisure%3Devents). Does anybody have more opinions and suggestions on this, please? I think event is not a good description for a place where events take place, something like event_space / event_place would already be better, but still seems very generic. What kind of events do you have in mind, folk festivals? parish fairs? trade fairs? concerts? beer festivals? just to name a few. For these maybe fairground would be a good tag (not sure for leisure as a key, maybe use a neutral amenity?) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
