Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 30 ago 2016, alle ore 12:45, Hakuch  ha scritto:
> 
> "Don't map your local legislation, if not bound to objects in reality"


default speed limits are bound to physical objects: the freeway, the urban 
road, etc.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[yo paseopor]

I think you can put the information if you know it. The only developed
country with no limits in some pieces of their ways is Germany, and the
other pieces have the traffic signs (remember now you can put it also in
OSM with ISO two-letter country).
In England in some pieces of road there's no speedlimit signs. Why? Because
in their laws they put:" Hey! if road is LIGHTED in that way = limit of
30mph". You will not see the sign but you can put this limit maxspeed to
assure GPS will get this important information for foreigners.
No limit sign will not mean you can do whatever you want, so you can
specifiy the information.
If you think there's no speed limit really I bet you to drive up to this
speedlimit with a police car behind yours.

yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Hans De Kryger 
wrote:

> Here in Phoenix Arizona more than half the freeway off ramps have no
> listed speed limit. Does (maxspeed=none) work? I've worked hard here in the
> valley adding speed limits and when you look at the ito map it looks like
> no one added any to the off ramps when in fact most of them have been
> surveyed and they have none. How to tag them?
>
I would leave no maxspeed tag on the ramps, but if there's a yellow warning
sign indicating a ramp speed, I'd tag that on maxspeed:advisory.
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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 30 ago 2016, alle ore 19:18, yo paseopor  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> The only developed country with no limits in some pieces of their ways is 
> Germany


I think also the Northern Territory of Australia has no general speed limit-not 
sure if they meet your definition of "developed country" ;-)

http://brilliantmaps.com/speed-limits/

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Re: [Tagging] cave_entrance. ref and name

[ksg]

> Am 30.08.2016 um 13:39 schrieb Richard :
> 
> So what does cave:ref really mean? Should that say something like 
> "unique cave identifier"?
> Shouldn't cave:ref be subtyped for example as "cave:ref:at" or
> "cave:ref:fr" for austrian resp french ids to prevent id clashes?
> 
> Richard

In Austria and the adjacent Bavarian Alps of Germany exist a rather elaborated 
hierarchical index of caves (Österreichisches Höhlen Verzeichnis (ÖHV) = 
Austrian Cave Index) - http://hoehle.org/downloads/SD_10_Handbuch.pdf.  The 
register is based on four main hydrographic units with three level 
subdivisions, based mainly on river basins and mountain regions. See the 
english abstract that follows the table of contents. It should be discussed in 
advance, if the national speleo associations will permit using data from the 
cave indexes or even if they have an interest in sharing specific information 
with OSM. 

geow
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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Warin]

On 8/31/2016 7:17 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



sent from a phone

Il giorno 30 ago 2016, alle ore 19:18, yo paseopor 
> ha scritto:


The only developed country with no limits in some pieces of their 
ways is Germany



I think also the Northern Territory of Australia has no general speed 
limit-not sure if they meet your definition of "developed country" ;-)


The NT speed limit was unlimited .. then changed to 130 kmh .. and now 
has I believe some sections of sealed highway have unlimited again.. 
that can change. Most of the NT has that 130 kmh upper limit.

There are also a few bits of unlimited sections on the Isle of Man.



http://brilliantmaps.com/speed-limits/

Cheers,
Martin


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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Colin Smale]

On 2016-08-30 13:59, David Marchal wrote:

> AFAIK, no maxspeed value means that the default maximum speed for this type 
> of road in this area applies, so I wouldn't add this tag when there is no 
> sign;

Are you sure the type of road *for these purposes* can be derived from
the other tagging? Is it (hypothetically) urban or rural? As the highway
type is sometimes tagged subjectively (if a road "feels" important it
might get bumped up from tertiary to secondary) that may lead to wrong
conclusions about the maxspeed. 

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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[David Marchal]

AFAIK, no maxspeed value means that the default maximum speed for this type of 
road in this area applies, so I wouldn't add this tag when there is no sign; 
that would also fulfill the "Map what's on the ground" principle. Beware that, 
if there that was a maximum speed sign (hundreds of) kilometers before, which 
is still in effect, you should then use this value; that kind of situation is 
pretty common, at least here in France, as it prevents installation of 
redundant signs after each junction.

From: hans.dekryge...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 12:35:48 -0700
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

Here in Phoenix Arizona more than half the freeway off ramps have no listed 
speed limit. Does (maxspeed=none) work? I've worked hard here in the valley 
adding speed limits and when you look at the ito map it looks like no one added 
any to the off ramps when in fact most of them have been surveyed and they have 
none. How to tag them?
Regards,

Hans

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Re: [Tagging] cave_entrance. ref and name

[Alejandro S.]

In Spain there isn't any cave cadastre. Each speleology club give a name
and/or ref to the caves they found in their explaration area. Each club has
its own system to name the new caves. So it could be need to specify also
the club in the ref?
It will be cave:ref:es:CEA=A-111 for a cave explored by the CEA club,
cave:ref:es:ECZ=HU-23 for the caves explored by the ECZ club?

Atentamente,
  Alejandro Suárez

On 30 August 2016 at 13:39, Richard  wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 05:20:19PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >
> >
> > sent from a phone
> >
> > > Il giorno 29 ago 2016, alle ore 12:24, Richard 
> ha scritto:
> > >
> > > are you saying we should use "cave:ref" just to avoid the use of a
> relation?
> >
> >
> > according to the wiki, that's the standard fag to add to a cave entrance
> for referring to the cave ref
>
> added that to the description, the docs still need tweaking.
> German cave_entrance description lacks any mention of "cave:ref".
> The english says "number in a cave cadastre" which is perhaps
> a remnant of French translation and not terribly useful as it
> would imply an official registry which may exist only in few
> countries.
>
> So what does cave:ref really mean? Should that say something like
> "unique cave identifier"?
> Shouldn't cave:ref be subtyped for example as "cave:ref:at" or
> "cave:ref:fr" for austrian resp french ids to prevent id clashes?
>
> Richard
>
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Re: [Tagging] cave_entrance. ref and name

[Richard]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 05:20:19PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> > Il giorno 29 ago 2016, alle ore 12:24, Richard  ha 
> > scritto:
> > 
> > are you saying we should use "cave:ref" just to avoid the use of a relation?
> 
> 
> according to the wiki, that's the standard fag to add to a cave entrance for 
> referring to the cave ref

added that to the description, the docs still need tweaking. 
German cave_entrance description lacks any mention of "cave:ref". 
The english says "number in a cave cadastre" which is perhaps 
a remnant of French translation and not terribly useful as it 
would imply an official registry which may exist only in few
countries.

So what does cave:ref really mean? Should that say something like 
"unique cave identifier"?
Shouldn't cave:ref be subtyped for example as "cave:ref:at" or
"cave:ref:fr" for austrian resp french ids to prevent id clashes?

Richard

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Re: [Tagging] cave_entrance. ref and name

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 30 ago 2016, alle ore 13:39, Richard  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> added that to the description, the docs still need tweaking. 
> German cave_entrance description lacks any mention of "cave:ref". 
> The english says "number in a cave cadastre" which is perhaps 
> a remnant of French translation and not terribly useful as it 
> would imply an official registry which may exist only in few
> countries.


yes, probably the term "cave registry" is more English than cadastre, and yes, 
there are likely several of them, so the tag needs probably tweaking. No 
mention of the term "official" in the wiki, so that's not a requirement (but a 
permissive license of said registries is).

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Hakuch]

On 30.08.2016 12:45, Hakuch wrote:
> On 28.08.2016 21:35, Hans De Kryger wrote:
>> Here in Phoenix Arizona more than half the freeway off ramps have no listed
>> speed limit. Does (maxspeed=none) work? I've worked hard here in the valley
>> adding speed limits and when you look at the ito map it looks like no one
>> added any to the off ramps when in fact most of them have been surveyed and
>> they have none. How to tag them?
> 
> "Don't map your local legislation, if not bound to objects in reality"
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice

However, the real question here is: "how to mark objects, that they dont
need to be tagged". That question rises occasionally in osm, but there
are no solutions yet. I personally sometimes would like to have
something like maxspeed=inherit or maxspeed=default, so you see that
someone already checked the situation.
We have some other cases with "default values" that are advised not to
be tagged. But then you can't differ between not-checked and default value.
Otherwise, then you would be pushed to tag a lot of stupid tags with its
default value to any object, just to mark that you did not forget to
check it. Thats no solution ever.


0x3CBE432B.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys
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Re: [Tagging] Roads with no speed limits

[Hakuch]

On 28.08.2016 21:35, Hans De Kryger wrote:
> Here in Phoenix Arizona more than half the freeway off ramps have no listed
> speed limit. Does (maxspeed=none) work? I've worked hard here in the valley
> adding speed limits and when you look at the ito map it looks like no one
> added any to the off ramps when in fact most of them have been surveyed and
> they have none. How to tag them?

"Don't map your local legislation, if not bound to objects in reality"
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice

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