Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
ghostla...@autistici.org: > Awesome explanation. Thanks heaps. Looks like the dotfiles option is the > most straightforward. I do this through a ~/.xsessionrc in my Dotfiles with gsettings lines like this one: gsettings set org.gnome.pomodoro.preferences long-break-duration 300 ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Awesome explanation. Thanks heaps. Looks like the dotfiles option is the most straightforward. Re: upgrade hazards, maybe dconf locks could help: https://help.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/dconf-lockdown.html ghostlands On 2016-08-24 14:18, intrigeri wrote: ghostla...@autistici.org: Why is it not already possible for the persistence feature to save/reference the .config directory and everything in it (and whatever other config directories in the home directory)? And of course load these saved settings at startup? This would persist not only the settings that the user really meant to change in a persistent way, but it will also freeze all the other settings stored in ~/.config/ to the value that we set in Tails at the time when they made this directory persistent. In other words, a part of their Tails system will never be upgraded anymore, and the user has little knowledge and control over what's in this part. This is not something that I want to even try supporting. For ~/.config/ I would suggest using the Dotfiles feature instead, since it allows adding a custom persistent overlay *on top* of the defaults that one did not mean to modify nor persist. For dconf one "should just" implement dumping/loading a list of user-specified keys to/from persistence. It should be simple to solve that for technical users (who can already workaround this easily so it's not worth it), and non-trivial to solve in a way that is easy & safe to use for everyone else. Which probably explains why nobody has implemented it yet. Cheers, ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
ghostla...@autistici.org: > Why is it not already possible for the persistence feature to save/reference > the > .config directory and everything in it (and whatever other config directories > in the > home directory)? And of course load these saved settings at startup? This would persist not only the settings that the user really meant to change in a persistent way, but it will also freeze all the other settings stored in ~/.config/ to the value that we set in Tails at the time when they made this directory persistent. In other words, a part of their Tails system will never be upgraded anymore, and the user has little knowledge and control over what's in this part. This is not something that I want to even try supporting. For ~/.config/ I would suggest using the Dotfiles feature instead, since it allows adding a custom persistent overlay *on top* of the defaults that one did not mean to modify nor persist. For dconf one "should just" implement dumping/loading a list of user-specified keys to/from persistence. It should be simple to solve that for technical users (who can already workaround this easily so it's not worth it), and non-trivial to solve in a way that is easy & safe to use for everyone else. Which probably explains why nobody has implemented it yet. Cheers, -- intrigeri ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
I'd like to butt in with a question here, with apologies for whatever obvious things I may be missing (that I hope someone is also willing point out): Why is it not already possible for the persistence feature to save/reference the .config directory and everything in it (and whatever other config directories in the home directory)? And of course load these saved settings at startup? There's always the threat of a user changing a config file in a way that breaks security; however I'm not sure what the best thing to do to would be in order to command the more sensitive programs to store their settings separately. It might just be correct to leave the responsibility for those kinds of fumbles up to the user anyway. Am I totally wrong that this is the simplest way for any user to save settings? ghostlands On 2016-07-27 18:58, Ulrich Viefhaus wrote: I didn't test using ~/.dconf as you are suggesting, but only by reading your documentation, it's not clear to me how it works. Dotfiles only work for *files* (and not for *folders*). So which file should be included in the Dotfiles? Also, will this file store all changes made to the GNOME configuration without allowing the user to choose which changes are made persistent and which not? Would these be binaries files or would it be possible for the user to review what's being changed? ALL changes to the gnome settings would be persistent, if the folder is made persistent. Thats because the newer dconf system saves all settings in a binary file, thats optimized for reading. The older gconf system used a xml file for each program. That makes it a little bit harder for the user. For example, on my own setup, I made the ~/.xsessionrc file persistent using Dotfiles and added lines of gsettings commands to it. This way I can opt-in for which changes I want to make persistent and also review the sum of my changes. If feel like these are two very important properties (opt-in + reviewable). But I'm not very knowledgeable about GNOME internals so maybe there's a better option than .xsessionrc. I agree with you. I'm going to brainstorm a little bit in the following parts, but I think I have an It is possible to watch all changes by calling "dconf watch / > logfile" at the beginning of a session. This way you can directly see, then something changes. But evolution and other programs produce some noise there. I don't think this can be used for opt-in or review. An other possibility is to use the command "dconf dump / > dump.dconf". It shows all changes made by the user and saves them to the dumpfile. This file could be made persistent. You can load it at the beginning of a new session with "dconf load / < dump.dconf". But it also contains a lot of noise like this: [apps/seahorse/windows/key-manager] width=1366 height=702 It would be quite troublesome to figure out which lines to keep. But you could save changes directly to a dotfile. The structure is quite simple, if you already know the command for gsettings. For example, you could save the following as a dotfile and load it with dconf load, to change the folder view of nautilus: [org/gnome/nautilus/preferences] default-folder-viewer='list-view' The gsettings command would be "gsettings set org.gnome.nautilus.preferences default-folder-viewer list-view". There exists documentation about writing such "schemes". Or you can dump single settings with the dump command and append it to your config file. You can then save all your settings in a dotfile and load that with dconf, then the persistent memory is loaded at the beginning of a session. I admit that it is not easier than your .xsessionrc method. But I think it makes it a little bit more clear to the average user, if he/she has a configuration file with a clear syntax dedicated to such changes. Kind regards, Ulrich ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org. ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
> I didn't test using ~/.dconf as you are suggesting, but only by reading > your documentation, it's not clear to me how it works. Dotfiles only > work for *files* (and not for *folders*). So which file should be > included in the Dotfiles? Also, will this file store all changes made to > the GNOME configuration without allowing the user to choose which > changes are made persistent and which not? Would these be binaries files > or would it be possible for the user to review what's being changed? ALL changes to the gnome settings would be persistent, if the folder is made persistent. Thats because the newer dconf system saves all settings in a binary file, thats optimized for reading. The older gconf system used a xml file for each program. That makes it a little bit harder for the user. > For example, on my own setup, I made the ~/.xsessionrc file persistent > using Dotfiles and added lines of gsettings commands to it. This way I > can opt-in for which changes I want to make persistent and also review > the sum of my changes. > > If feel like these are two very important properties (opt-in + > reviewable). But I'm not very knowledgeable about GNOME internals so > maybe there's a better option than .xsessionrc. I agree with you. I'm going to brainstorm a little bit in the following parts, but I think I have an It is possible to watch all changes by calling "dconf watch / > logfile" at the beginning of a session. This way you can directly see, then something changes. But evolution and other programs produce some noise there. I don't think this can be used for opt-in or review. An other possibility is to use the command "dconf dump / > dump.dconf". It shows all changes made by the user and saves them to the dumpfile. This file could be made persistent. You can load it at the beginning of a new session with "dconf load / < dump.dconf". But it also contains a lot of noise like this: [apps/seahorse/windows/key-manager] width=1366 height=702 It would be quite troublesome to figure out which lines to keep. But you could save changes directly to a dotfile. The structure is quite simple, if you already know the command for gsettings. For example, you could save the following as a dotfile and load it with dconf load, to change the folder view of nautilus: [org/gnome/nautilus/preferences] default-folder-viewer='list-view' The gsettings command would be "gsettings set org.gnome.nautilus.preferences default-folder-viewer list-view". There exists documentation about writing such "schemes". Or you can dump single settings with the dump command and append it to your config file. You can then save all your settings in a dotfile and load that with dconf, then the persistent memory is loaded at the beginning of a session. I admit that it is not easier than your .xsessionrc method. But I think it makes it a little bit more clear to the average user, if he/she has a configuration file with a clear syntax dedicated to such changes. Kind regards, Ulrich signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
u: > Ulrich Viefhaus: > >> I added a branch to my personal repo with additions to the >> documentation, covering this conversation. >> A new advanced topic for changing gnome settings is added that contains >> the most common commands for the gnome configuration tool and a warning, >> that changing settings could lead to lesser privacy. > > I let people who are into documentation writing take care of this. Cool! Thanks for the branch. Changing bits of configuration persistently is a very frequent request and I'll happily include good documentation on making this easier. I won't be able to review your branch in details during the summer but I had a look and have some questions about the big picture. On top of documenting how to use gsettings, which you are doing extensively and that's good, I feel like we need more detailed explanation on how to make these specific settings persistent. I didn't test using ~/.dconf as you are suggesting, but only by reading your documentation, it's not clear to me how it works. Dotfiles only work for *files* (and not for *folders*). So which file should be included in the Dotfiles? Also, will this file store all changes made to the GNOME configuration without allowing the user to choose which changes are made persistent and which not? Would these be binaries files or would it be possible for the user to review what's being changed? For example, on my own setup, I made the ~/.xsessionrc file persistent using Dotfiles and added lines of gsettings commands to it. This way I can opt-in for which changes I want to make persistent and also review the sum of my changes. If feel like these are two very important properties (opt-in + reviewable). But I'm not very knowledgeable about GNOME internals so maybe there's a better option than .xsessionrc. >> Here is my branch: >> https://github.com/UlrichViefhaus/dev-tails/tree/gnome-settings >> Don't know how many people need this. But maybe it could reviewed and >> added to the official docs? I could also write a German translation. > > Please don't hesitate to join the german translation team :)) The German translation team coordinates on tails-l...@boum.org, see https://tails.boum.org/contribute/how/translate/. It's been quite active in the last months so it should be easy to find small branches to review if you subscribe to the list. ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi, Ulrich Viefhaus: > I added a branch to my personal repo with additions to the > documentation, covering this conversation. > A new advanced topic for changing gnome settings is added that contains > the most common commands for the gnome configuration tool and a warning, > that changing settings could lead to lesser privacy. I let people who are into documentation writing take care of this. > Here is my branch: > https://github.com/UlrichViefhaus/dev-tails/tree/gnome-settings > Don't know how many people need this. But maybe it could reviewed and > added to the official docs? I could also write a German translation. Please don't hesitate to join the german translation team :)) Cheers! u. ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi, I added a branch to my personal repo with additions to the documentation, covering this conversation. A new advanced topic for changing gnome settings is added that contains the most common commands for the gnome configuration tool and a warning, that changing settings could lead to lesser privacy. Here is my branch: https://github.com/UlrichViefhaus/dev-tails/tree/gnome-settings Don't know how many people need this. But maybe it could reviewed and added to the official docs? I could also write a German translation. Kind regards, Ulrich signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi! Ulrich Viefhaus: (sorry I'm copying your answer *under* the text again :))) >> Do we agree that this setting, when using Nautilus in Debian, for >> example, is saved in a hidden file in the user's home directory whenever >> the user changes it from default? And that nautilus verifies this >> whenever I reenter the same directory (thus remembering what I chose >> before)? >> >> In that case this should / could be done in persistence (maybe it is >> already, i did not verify) - not through a setting which would be proper >> to Tails and differ from upstream. We do not ever want to have such >> delta with upstream. > dconf uses more than one settings database but the user-db in the user > directory is preferred. It is stored in the .dconf folder of the home > directory. The settings are saved, as long as you have configured your > persistent storage to include the dot-files in your home directory. > Nautilus is aware of that settings, if you change it. > This can be done by the user and does not need Tails to differ from > upstream in the default configuration. Thank you for your explanations. So there is indeed a possibility for each user to store their own settings as long as they have configured persistence. No need to differ from upstream unless there is a strong reason to do so, as intrigeri already said. Cheers! u. ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi u, dconf uses more than one settings database but the user-db in the user directory is preferred. It is stored in the .dconf folder of the home directory. The settings are saved, as long as you have configured your persistent storage to include the dot-files in your home directory. Nautilus is aware of that settings, if you change it. This can be done by the user and does not need Tails to differ from upstream in the default configuration. Kind regards, Ulrich > Do we agree that this setting, when using Nautilus in Debian, for > example, is saved in a hidden file in the user's home directory whenever > the user changes it from default? And that nautilus verifies this > whenever I reenter the same directory (thus remembering what I chose > before)? > > In that case this should / could be done in persistence (maybe it is > already, i did not verify) - not through a setting which would be proper > to Tails and differ from upstream. We do not ever want to have such > delta with upstream. > > Cheers! > u. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi, Ulrich Viefhaus: (copied your answer to the bottom of the email to increase readability.) > Am Donnerstag, den 21.07.2016, 21:54 +0200 schrieb intrigeri: >> Tom Servo wrote (21 Jul 2016 17:47:29 GMT) : >>> A couple of updates ago (maybe just one), the default ordering in Nautilus, >>> the file explorer, was changed to alphabetical. >> >>> This is not ideal for me, since I need to change it to "by Type" each time >>> I enter >>> a new directory. I like to have a lot of directories. >> >>> It might just be that I'm missing an obvious setting, but I would like to >>> know how to >>> change the ordering to "by Type" once and for all (even just once per >>> session would >>> be okay). >> >> As far as I can tell, we've never modifyed the default value for this >> GNOME setting we get from upstream/Debian, so whatever change might >> have happen in Tails, has been decided upstream or in Debian. >> To revert that change in Tails, we'll need a pretty strong reasoning, >> that takes into account the reasoning for the reverted change. > you could change that setting in each Tails session via the following > command in a terminal: > > gsettings set org.gnome.nautilus.preferences default-sort-order type > > gsetting should be contained in gsettings-backend that is provided by > dconf or gconf: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/gsettings-backend Do we agree that this setting, when using Nautilus in Debian, for example, is saved in a hidden file in the user's home directory whenever the user changes it from default? And that nautilus verifies this whenever I reenter the same directory (thus remembering what I chose before)? In that case this should / could be done in persistence (maybe it is already, i did not verify) - not through a setting which would be proper to Tails and differ from upstream. We do not ever want to have such delta with upstream. Cheers! u. ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi Tom, you could change that setting in each Tails session via the following command in a terminal: gsettings set org.gnome.nautilus.preferences default-sort-order type gsetting should be contained in gsettings-backend that is provided by dconf or gconf: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/gsettings-backend Kind regards, Ulrich Am Donnerstag, den 21.07.2016, 21:54 +0200 schrieb intrigeri: > Hi Tom, > > Tom Servo wrote (21 Jul 2016 17:47:29 GMT) : > > A couple of updates ago (maybe just one), the default ordering in Nautilus, > > the file explorer, was changed to alphabetical. > > > This is not ideal for me, since I need to change it to "by Type" each time > > I enter > > a new directory. I like to have a lot of directories. > > > It might just be that I'm missing an obvious setting, but I would like to > > know how to > > change the ordering to "by Type" once and for all (even just once per > > session would > > be okay). > > As far as I can tell, we've never modifyed the default value for this > GNOME setting we get from upstream/Debian, so whatever change might > have happen in Tails, has been decided upstream or in Debian. > To revert that change in Tails, we'll need a pretty strong reasoning, > that takes into account the reasoning for the reverted change. > > Cheers, -- Diese Nachricht wurde mittels GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) signiert. Um die Signatur dieser Nachricht auf Korrektheit zu überprüfen, benötigen Sie meinen öffentlichen GPG Schlüssel. Mit diesem können Sie auchverschlüsselteNachrichten an mich senden. Mein Schlüssel mit der ID BB50A3F1 kann von folgendem Schlüsselserver geladen werden: hkp://keys.gnupg.net Eine umfassende Anleitung zur Verwendung von GPG finden Sie hier: https://gnupg.org/howtos/de/index.html Warum Verschlüsselung und Signaturen für Mails sinnvoll sind? Bruce Schneier, international bekannter Autor zum Thema IT-Sicherheit, hat es in einem Essay gut zusammengefasst, welches hier in der Übersetzung zu finden ist: https://netzpolitik.org/2015/bruce-schneier-warum-wir-verschluesseln/ Weitere Tipps der Electronic Frontier Foundation: https://www.ifightsurveillance.org/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] Changing default order in Nautilus
Hi Tom, Tom Servo wrote (21 Jul 2016 17:47:29 GMT) : > A couple of updates ago (maybe just one), the default ordering in Nautilus, > the file explorer, was changed to alphabetical. > This is not ideal for me, since I need to change it to "by Type" each time I > enter > a new directory. I like to have a lot of directories. > It might just be that I'm missing an obvious setting, but I would like to > know how to > change the ordering to "by Type" once and for all (even just once per session > would > be okay). As far as I can tell, we've never modifyed the default value for this GNOME setting we get from upstream/Debian, so whatever change might have happen in Tails, has been decided upstream or in Debian. To revert that change in Tails, we'll need a pretty strong reasoning, that takes into account the reasoning for the reverted change. Cheers, -- intrigeri ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
