Re: [GTALUG] keyboards

[Jason Shaw via talk]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 12:24 PM Giles Orr via talk  wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 16:40, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:41 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <
> talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> | From: Evan Leibovitch via talk 
> >>
> <<>>
> > Thanking one and all for their input!
>
> There appear to be a lot of definitions of what "ergonomic" means when
> it comes to keyboards.  I tend to the most extreme example: I own
> three (working) Kinesis Advantage keyboards.  The Advantage2 can be
> had for $400-$450 Canadian - not cheap.  They come with Cherry brown
> switches, but I have a habit of retrofitting them with Cherry blues -
> which makes them noisier and more expensive.
>
> Everybody is recommending the keyboard(s) they love ...  I have a
> CoolerMaster with Cherry Blues, and several IBM model Ms, and have had
> many other types of "ergonomic" keyboards over the years.  I love the
> feel of the switches in both the CoolerMaster and the model Ms, but I
> find I need the two halves of the keyboard farther apart for comfort.
> I also prefer vertical columns of keys - as opposed to the now totally
> unnecessary leftward slant of key columns on almost all modern
> keyboards.  I've experimented with keyboards a lot to end up where I
> am: the Kinesis Advantage took a month to adjust to, but has been
> worth it ... for me.  It's my daily driver both at home and at work.
> You have to make your own call on these things.
>
> A note about gaming keyboards: gamers seem to tend to prefer low
> activation force, linear keys (Cherry Blacks or Cherry Reds).  Most
> people who type for a living (as opposed to gaming) seem to prefer
> "tactile" keys, which is quite different from the "linear" keys which
> don't have any feedback at all until they bottom out.  I hate linears
> (but again - personal taste).  And then there's the "clicky" thing:
> the noise the IBM model M makes can be enough to clear a small room.
> Some people really really hate that noise.  I get that, but I still
> love the feel of those things.
>
> Further reading (my intro to keyboard layouts and key types):
> https://www.gilesorr.com/blog/computer-keyboards.html
>

Thanks for that Giles.

Keyboards are a very personal choice, and what's right for one user isn't
going to be right for another.

Personally, I use a ThinkPad X1 Carbon quite regularly and have for ~10
years, and love the touchpoint (red nub), so even my external keyboard for
a long time was the ThinkPad TrackPoint kb (
https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KBD-BO-TrackPoint-KBD-US-English/p/4Y40X49493).
Over time though, my posture was suffering and my wrists were sore at the
end of a workday. Combined with a personal accident that resulted in some
permanent fingertip damage on my dominant hand, I needed something with
better ergonomics, so I took the plunge on a split style, mechanical
keyboard, and can't imagine going back.  The added benefit of having the
desk area immediately in front of me wide open is great too.

I would like to try an ortholinear split keyboard at some point, but have
no real desire to spend a month or two re-learning to type again.

-jason
---
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] keyboards

[Giles Orr via talk]

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 16:40, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:41 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk  
> wrote:
>>
>> | From: Evan Leibovitch via talk 
>>
>> |   The emergence of high-end gaming on PCs has led to a quest for
>> | keyboards that are super-responsive and comfortable for long periods.
>>
>> Yeah.  That seems like the best place to look.
>>
>> Beware: I've found their goals are not completely aligned with mine.
>> Here are some.
>>
>> One feature that I don't care about is rainbow coloured lights for the
>> keys.  Benign, but you are paying for this.  On mine (a Razer Blackwidow
>> Ultimate -- love the names), I've got a green light per key, solidly on
>> unless I install a daemon to change that.
>>
>> Another is "tenkeyless" which means "without numeric keypad".  I use
>> the numeric keypad and don't want to lose it.
>>
>> Another is low-latency: I've never noticed keyboard latency.
>>
>> Another is: ugly seems to be valued.
>>
>> All support n-key rollover, for large n.  This requires sending multiple
>> USB packets per keystroke.  This in turn confuses the firmware on a couple
>> of our machines: if we wish to adjust firmware settings, we have to plug
>> in a different keyboard.  As you can imagine, that took some effort to
>> figure out.
>>
>> There are many web pages that describe the colours of switches.
>> 
>>
>> My wife likes "blue" keys (noisy and tactile).
>> I like "brown" keys (less noisy but tactile).
>>
>> If you care a lot, you may care about the company that produced the
>> switches.  I haven't bothered to sudy this aspect.
>>
>
> Interesting comments from all of the responders so far.
> Is anyone using an ergonomic keyboard from this group.
> The old rectangular keyboard makes my hands ache at the
> thought of using only this. I have some cheap keyboards gotten
> with machine purchases - - - my working keyboard for anything
> more than a few keystrokes is an ergonomic version. I'm about
> 60 cm across the shoulders so a keyboard that's some 35 cm
> just isn't comfortable.
>
> I also like my numeric keypad - - - - do a lot of entries on that
> for business use and would like to have it part of the keyboard
> if at all possible.
>
> I have used the mechanical keys in a very long time - - - think
> I would prefer less noise rather than more but for high quality
> would like give on that!
>
> Re: gaming - - - - I'm having too fun fun and use far too much time
> on my system without playing any games - - - tend to relax with a
> book (most often a physical copy too).
>
> Thanking one and all for their input!

There appear to be a lot of definitions of what "ergonomic" means when
it comes to keyboards.  I tend to the most extreme example: I own
three (working) Kinesis Advantage keyboards.  The Advantage2 can be
had for $400-$450 Canadian - not cheap.  They come with Cherry brown
switches, but I have a habit of retrofitting them with Cherry blues -
which makes them noisier and more expensive.

Everybody is recommending the keyboard(s) they love ...  I have a
CoolerMaster with Cherry Blues, and several IBM model Ms, and have had
many other types of "ergonomic" keyboards over the years.  I love the
feel of the switches in both the CoolerMaster and the model Ms, but I
find I need the two halves of the keyboard farther apart for comfort.
I also prefer vertical columns of keys - as opposed to the now totally
unnecessary leftward slant of key columns on almost all modern
keyboards.  I've experimented with keyboards a lot to end up where I
am: the Kinesis Advantage took a month to adjust to, but has been
worth it ... for me.  It's my daily driver both at home and at work.
You have to make your own call on these things.

A note about gaming keyboards: gamers seem to tend to prefer low
activation force, linear keys (Cherry Blacks or Cherry Reds).  Most
people who type for a living (as opposed to gaming) seem to prefer
"tactile" keys, which is quite different from the "linear" keys which
don't have any feedback at all until they bottom out.  I hate linears
(but again - personal taste).  And then there's the "clicky" thing:
the noise the IBM model M makes can be enough to clear a small room.
Some people really really hate that noise.  I get that, but I still
love the feel of those things.

Further reading (my intro to keyboard layouts and key types):
https://www.gilesorr.com/blog/computer-keyboards.html

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
---
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] keyboards

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 4:05 PM Jason Shaw  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 16:40 o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:41 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <
>> talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
>>
>>> | From: Evan Leibovitch via talk 
>>>
>>> |   The emergence of high-end gaming on PCs has led to a quest for
>>> | keyboards that are super-responsive and comfortable for long periods.
>>>
>>> Yeah.  That seems like the best place to look.
>>>
>>> Beware: I've found their goals are not completely aligned with mine.
>>> Here are some.
>>>
>>> One feature that I don't care about is rainbow coloured lights for the
>>> keys.  Benign, but you are paying for this.  On mine (a Razer Blackwidow
>>> Ultimate -- love the names), I've got a green light per key, solidly on
>>> unless I install a daemon to change that.
>>>
>>> Another is "tenkeyless" which means "without numeric keypad".  I use
>>> the numeric keypad and don't want to lose it.
>>>
>>> Another is low-latency: I've never noticed keyboard latency.
>>>
>>> Another is: ugly seems to be valued.
>>>
>>> All support n-key rollover, for large n.  This requires sending multiple
>>> USB packets per keystroke.  This in turn confuses the firmware on a
>>> couple
>>> of our machines: if we wish to adjust firmware settings, we have to plug
>>> in a different keyboard.  As you can imagine, that took some effort to
>>> figure out.
>>>
>>> There are many web pages that describe the colours of switches.


 _._,_._,_
>>>
>>> Groups.io Links:
>>>
>>> You receive all messages sent to this group.
>>>
>>>
 View/Reply Online (#155011) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute
 This Topic | New Topic
>>>
>>> Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [
 o1bigte...@gmail.com]
>>>
>>> _._,_._,_
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> My wife likes "blue" keys (noisy and tactile).
>>> I like "brown" keys (less noisy but tactile).
>>>
>>> If you care a lot, you may care about the company that produced the
>>> switches.  I haven't bothered to sudy this aspect.
>>>
>>>
>> Interesting comments from all of the responders so far.
>> Is anyone using an ergonomic keyboard from this group.
>> The old rectangular keyboard makes my hands ache at the
>> thought of using only this. I have some cheap keyboards gotten
>> with machine purchases - - - my working keyboard for anything
>> more than a few keystrokes is an ergonomic version. I'm about
>> 60 cm across the shoulders so a keyboard that's some 35 cm
>> just isn't comfortable.
>>
>> I also like my numeric keypad - - - - do a lot of entries on that
>> for business use and would like to have it part of the keyboard
>> if at all possible.
>>
>> I have used the mechanical keys in a very long time - - - think
>> I would prefer less noise rather than more but for high quality
>> would like give on that!
>>
>> Re: gaming - - - - I'm having too fun fun and use far too much time
>> on my system without playing any games - - - tend to relax with a
>> book (most often a physical copy too).
>>
>
> I switched to a split keyboard about a year ago, a Kinesis freestyle pro,
> and after a few month learning curve, I honestly can't imagine switching
> back. My shoulders feel so much better after a day of typing that I can
> hardly believe it. It has quiet mechanical switches that feel nice and
> responsive and should be fine for open concept offices.
>
> Not the cheapest, especially once the tilting kit and wrist rests were
> added in, but my posture is worth it.
>
> Hmmm - - - - had you used an ergonomic keyboard previously?

TIA
---
Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk