RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Smith, Veronica via Talk]

Mine is Firefox and word.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+veronica.smith=aps@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 9:07 PM
To: dlh...@centurylink.net; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: the on going saga of losing speech

Hi Dave,

Does this happen with all browsers, that is, Firefox, IE, and Chrome, or
just IE?

Best regards,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
Of via Talk
Sent: September 30, 2015 4:47 PM
To: Kevin Huber <huber.kev...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: the on going saga of losing speech

As a person that is constantly having either Window Eyes 9.2 fail, or
something else going on, so far unknown, I have come to think my problem
is a Hardware issue.  

Although, I can not find any proof of my theory as many people on this
list have such a wide variety of computers and Operating systems.  

At first I thought it may be something within Win 7 64 bit edition,
where the conflict was caused.  Then I noticed others running Win 8, 8.1
and even Win 10, were also experiencing such speech drop outs.  

This morning, I had WE 9.2 go away three times within 45 minutes.  I
finally just shut down my system and walked away because I was so
frustrated.  

I am attempting to figure a way to buy another system.  And hopefully,
this will help eliminate WE 9.X from losing Speech.  

If it doesn't, I'll be using JAWS latest version in its Demo Mode, as I
am looking for Employment, which forces me to be On Line a Lot, every
day.  Something I can not do consistently when using WE 9.0, 9.1, and
now 9.2.There are still times when I need to fire up my old XP
system and use WE 8.4, and hope I.E. 8 will be allowed on some Employers
Web Site.  Sometimes it is, and more often it is not.  

Using JAWS Demo will give me at least 30 minutes before I need to
re-boot.  With the current edition of WE 9.2, I am constantly
anticipating Speech to go away.  

Not Fun!


-- 
Dave <dlh...@centurylink.net>

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RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Rick Thomas via Talk]

Hi Dave:
Yup, having an idea of how the sausage is made gives you a better insight
into what may be going on indeed.
I too have sat through meetings both hot and snoozy and found the same
things.
It is likely, in AI Squareds case, they want to fix the problem but it is
either too deeply embedded in the code base or it is the result of a complex
combinations of factors and not easily correctible.
Think of if it it is the whole senario of using a single threaded app and
vbScript as a primary mechanism and if the very methodology is not very
compatible with newer technologies - not saying this is the actual problem
folks, no indication of that just an example of something that would require
such a quantum change in the fundemental design that it would not be
considered possible without almost a complete rewrite of the entire platform
and likely beyond the cost capabilities of a smaller software house in any
reasonable timeframe.
Other situations exist less significant that could also cause meetings to
get hot as Dave mentioned.
Anyway, Dave, it is good to know someone else out there has been there and
done that and has an understanding that working on a software team and
trying to fix problems with a major piece of software is not like just
typing a few lines of code and Bam! The problem is fixed.
I think there is plenty of noise on this list and spilling over into other
arenas which is hammering the WindowEyes reputation and they are indeed very
interested in this problem.
That said, like you, I am very interested in the results of that person who
sent his, her, laptop into AISquared. That was going well beyond the normal
role of a software client user and I too have never heard the results of
that endevor from anyone - what was the problem and how did they fix it or,
are we talking a worst case, perhaps extinction,  senario here as mentioned
above?
Inquiring minds want to know - not to mention a large number of WindowEyes
clients having these problems on a daily basis.
Rick USA


-Original Message-
From: dlh...@centurylink.net [mailto:dlh...@centurylink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 8:00 PM
To: Rick Thomas <ofbgm...@mi.rr.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: the on going saga of losing speech

Hi Rick

I worked for many years as a Software Tech for a Company that produced
their own Software.  So I am a little bit familiar with what goes on
behind the Curtain, and it isn't always pretty.  

I wish I knew more about how the new 9.X version worked, and how the New
Browse Mode handles the information it is to relay to the speech out put
part of Window Eyes.  

If I did, perhaps I might be able to make better observations, and
suggest things closer to the target.  

I am sure the guys at A I Squared are aware they have a per centage of
their users who are suffering from these random failures.  

the problem is that they only have a small number of systems in their
offices where they can test 9.X.  And if all of those systems are set up
correctly, version 9 might run like a Champ.  And A I Squared can not
duplicate the problem plaguing so many others.  

The other extreme is the problem is known, but the glitch in the code
would require such a deep level over haul, it is impossible to fix for
this edition of series 9.  A fix like this might have to be suffered by
the unfortunate few until edition 10 comes along.  

Then there are the Ugly Meetings, which I have been a part of far more
than I wished.  And this is where the Big Boss is told of the problem,
and the cost in resources it will take to fix this known problem.  He
swears and yells and has a fit, and asked stupid questions like, How did
this get into the Program?

And of course no one says a word, and we all just sit there waiting for
the Big Boss to Cool down before any of us dare speak.  

finally the Big Boss asks, How many of our customers are affected  by
this problem?Someone gives an estimate, and the Big Boss then says,
he is not going to fix this problem until the next edition.  Too few are
expereincing the problem to put the needed resources into fixing it.  

the meeting comes to an end, and you feel like a Shit Heal when the next
customer calls in with the Big Problem, and you have to fake like you
are doing everything you can to fix the issue, when you know there is no
fix, and won't be until maybe a year or two later.  

I am not saying that A I Squared has had one of these Meetings, but I
will say, these types of Meetings do take place.  

I did ask in an earlier post what was the result of the one guy sending
in their Lap Top for A I Squared to figure out the problem.  have yet to
hear from either A I Squared, or from the guy who sent in the lap top.  

It is quite possible that A I Sqaured has no system where this problem
occurs.  

Anyway, like everyone else on this list, who suffers from the Random
failures, I too will help where I can, and hope a fix is coming s

RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Rick Thomas via Talk]

Hi Brice:
Now that you mention it, I don't recall ever getting the WE Error window
when things locked up or I lost speech.
This, if the case, would be a big help if we could forward the OS status and
any messages to WindowEyes and something I would think would be a priority
if AISquared is having problems figuring out what is causing all these
problems.
Rick USA

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Brice Mijares via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 1:44 PM
To: talk window eyes 
Subject: the on going saga of losing speech

Has AI squared Staff responded to this losing speech problem yet? This is 
really annoying wineyes stopping and there is no error report to send. 

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Re: the on going saga of losing speech

[via Talk]

Hi Rick

I worked for many years as a Software Tech for a Company that produced
their own Software.  So I am a little bit familiar with what goes on
behind the Curtain, and it isn't always pretty.  

I wish I knew more about how the new 9.X version worked, and how the New
Browse Mode handles the information it is to relay to the speech out put
part of Window Eyes.  

If I did, perhaps I might be able to make better observations, and
suggest things closer to the target.  

I am sure the guys at A I Squared are aware they have a per centage of
their users who are suffering from these random failures.  

the problem is that they only have a small number of systems in their
offices where they can test 9.X.  And if all of those systems are set up
correctly, version 9 might run like a Champ.  And A I Squared can not
duplicate the problem plaguing so many others.  

The other extreme is the problem is known, but the glitch in the code
would require such a deep level over haul, it is impossible to fix for
this edition of series 9.  A fix like this might have to be suffered by
the unfortunate few until edition 10 comes along.  

Then there are the Ugly Meetings, which I have been a part of far more
than I wished.  And this is where the Big Boss is told of the problem,
and the cost in resources it will take to fix this known problem.  He
swears and yells and has a fit, and asked stupid questions like, How did
this get into the Program?

And of course no one says a word, and we all just sit there waiting for
the Big Boss to Cool down before any of us dare speak.  

finally the Big Boss asks, How many of our customers are affected  by
this problem?Someone gives an estimate, and the Big Boss then says,
he is not going to fix this problem until the next edition.  Too few are
expereincing the problem to put the needed resources into fixing it.  

the meeting comes to an end, and you feel like a Shit Heal when the next
customer calls in with the Big Problem, and you have to fake like you
are doing everything you can to fix the issue, when you know there is no
fix, and won't be until maybe a year or two later.  

I am not saying that A I Squared has had one of these Meetings, but I
will say, these types of Meetings do take place.  

I did ask in an earlier post what was the result of the one guy sending
in their Lap Top for A I Squared to figure out the problem.  have yet to
hear from either A I Squared, or from the guy who sent in the lap top.  

It is quite possible that A I Sqaured has no system where this problem
occurs.  

Anyway, like everyone else on this list, who suffers from the Random
failures, I too will help where I can, and hope a fix is coming sooner
rather than much later.  

Dave








-- 
Dave 

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RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Rick Thomas via Talk]

Finding a needle would be easy with a metal detector.
Not so much finding a problem of this nature in a software product.
It should be done, needs to be done but there are allot of moving parts to
the analysis of this problem.
That said, I cant imagine AISquared has not been able to replicate this
problem with so massive a complaint from so many folks running so many
diferent hardware and software configurations so they should have a clue and
the proverbial metal detector they need to debug this problem.
Sure, some third party programs might cause a lockup or step on something
WindowEyes is trying to do but that needs to be worked around, no lockups of
speech and the keyboard due to any WindowEyes messaging problems or
conflicts with operating system resources should be the fundemental target
of the initial fix.
Sighted folks don't get any where near this level of problems with the
standard software most of us use who are experiencing these speech dropouts
and, or, lockups.
They get some but not nearly the level of problems we face.
Cut a company slack where it is necessary and deserved, get on them when
necessary to help them stay focused.
The key is to supply them as much detail about a problem as possible so they
have something to work with besides my program doesn't work type statements.
They want their product to work as much, likely more, than any of us. The
key is can they figure out why something isnt working and then can they
figure out a way to fix it without rewriting their entire platform.
It is always a cost benefit analysis that wins with management in the end.
Rick USA

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 2:07 PM
To: Brice Mijares <bricemija...@att.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: the on going saga of losing speech

Hi Brice:

If you are talking about Window-eyes losing speech in Internet
Explorer, I have tried it with NVDA and I still lose speech, which
would indicate that it is not a Window-eyes problem.

If Window-eyes is losing speech in other applications, the I think
that the problem is hard to track down, because not everybody is
experiencing the same problem, and there are so many possible hardware
and software configurations that one would have to test in order to
find what's causing the problem, that it would be like finding a
needle in a haystack.
I understand that this issue is frustrating, but perhaps if you could
document one scenario in which a crash took place and what you did to
get to that point, it would help Aisquared to solve the problem.
Kevin Huber

On 9/30/15, Brice Mijares via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> Has AI squared Staff responded to this losing speech problem yet? This is
> really annoying wineyes stopping and there is no error report to send.
>
> ___
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author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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>
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0gmail.com.
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RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Veronica Smith via Talk]

I mainly lose speech while I am in Word.  It drives me crazy, but thankfully
when I hit control/alt W, it comes back.

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+madison_tewe=spinn@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
Of Chris Grabowski via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 1:01 PM
To: Brice Mijares; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: the on going saga of losing speech

Hi,

Do you install any optional updates or just critical ones?
What anti-virus are you running?
What web site are you going to when losing speech?
Chris

Window-Eyes Product Support
Ai Squared
725 Airport North Office Park
Fort Wayne, IN 46825
(802) 362-3612
www.aisquared.com
 

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Brice Mijares via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 1:44 PM
To: talk window eyes <Talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: the on going saga of losing speech

Has AI squared Staff responded to this losing speech problem yet? This is
really annoying wineyes stopping and there is no error report to send. 

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RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Dave,

Does this happen with all browsers, that is, Firefox, IE, and Chrome, or
just IE?

Best regards,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf
Of via Talk
Sent: September 30, 2015 4:47 PM
To: Kevin Huber <huber.kev...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: the on going saga of losing speech

As a person that is constantly having either Window Eyes 9.2 fail, or
something else going on, so far unknown, I have come to think my problem
is a Hardware issue.  

Although, I can not find any proof of my theory as many people on this
list have such a wide variety of computers and Operating systems.  

At first I thought it may be something within Win 7 64 bit edition,
where the conflict was caused.  Then I noticed others running Win 8, 8.1
and even Win 10, were also experiencing such speech drop outs.  

This morning, I had WE 9.2 go away three times within 45 minutes.  I
finally just shut down my system and walked away because I was so
frustrated.  

I am attempting to figure a way to buy another system.  And hopefully,
this will help eliminate WE 9.X from losing Speech.  

If it doesn't, I'll be using JAWS latest version in its Demo Mode, as I
am looking for Employment, which forces me to be On Line a Lot, every
day.  Something I can not do consistently when using WE 9.0, 9.1, and
now 9.2.There are still times when I need to fire up my old XP
system and use WE 8.4, and hope I.E. 8 will be allowed on some Employers
Web Site.  Sometimes it is, and more often it is not.  

Using JAWS Demo will give me at least 30 minutes before I need to
re-boot.  With the current edition of WE 9.2, I am constantly
anticipating Speech to go away.  

Not Fun!


-- 
Dave <dlh...@centurylink.net>

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RE: the on going saga of losing speech

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Hello Kevin. I agree with you. Not everybody has the same issues. For
example, I have problems in Window-Eyes where a message comes up saying
Window-Eyes has not responding. I restart Window-Eyes, and I get an error
report to AI Squared with steps of when it happened. I have since solved the
problem, by putting Window-Eyes through the firewall. When I allow
Window-Eyes through the firewall, It is able to run just fine as it is
allowing certain components that are blocked.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 11:07 AM
To: Brice Mijares; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: the on going saga of losing speech

Hi Brice:

If you are talking about Window-eyes losing speech in Internet Explorer, I
have tried it with NVDA and I still lose speech, which would indicate that
it is not a Window-eyes problem.

If Window-eyes is losing speech in other applications, the I think that the
problem is hard to track down, because not everybody is experiencing the
same problem, and there are so many possible hardware and software
configurations that one would have to test in order to find what's causing
the problem, that it would be like finding a needle in a haystack.
I understand that this issue is frustrating, but perhaps if you could
document one scenario in which a crash took place and what you did to get to
that point, it would help Aisquared to solve the problem.
Kevin Huber

On 9/30/15, Brice Mijares via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> Has AI squared Staff responded to this losing speech problem yet? This 
> is really annoying wineyes stopping and there is no error report to send.
>
> ___
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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>
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0gmail.com.
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