Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[Karl Newman]

On Dec 21, 2007 6:43 PM, Andy Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 21/12/2007, Karl Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 2007 10:49 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder)
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > David James wrote:
> > > >Sent: 21 December 2007 5:48 PM
> > > >To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Fri, December 21, 2007 2:30 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
> > > >> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of 
> > > >> my
> > > >>  local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
> > > >> number and other close-in data.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511
> > > >>  > > >1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0B
> > > >> T>
> > > >> &lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT
> > > >
> > > >I don't know whether to be impressed at the level of detail you've
> > > >gathered, or depressed because of how small it makes my own efforts look
> > > >... :-(
> > >
> > > Well, its my local area and since I started to map it in 2005 it shouldn't
> > > be a surprise that I use it as a bit of a testing area. Some of the 
> > > earliest
> > > ways (sub 50 ID numbers) lurk in there.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >One question - what's the source for the residential=building data (the
> > > >rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's a mixture of manual survey and artistic impression. The beginning and
> > > end of each run of houses is easy to do by taking a photo of the boundary
> > > position which when synchronised in JOSM to the GPX track gives you a 
> > > pretty
> > > accurate location. The setback from the road is guesswork and doesn't yet
> > > sit right with the width of the road at every zoom level. The thickness
> > > again is guesswork and where I'm trying to give an impression rather than
> > > being precise. The same applies to the total run of the building, which in
> > > most cases is actually semi detached or detached housing which should 
> > > really
> > > be drawn as individual blocks. Maybe in a couple of year's time I'll feel
> > > like going to that extent! for now I'm just making a single continuous run
> > > where there are only residential homes along the run. If something else
> > > interjects I take a photo of it and tag appropriately.
> > >
> > > One the house number rendering works you will see I hope little numbers at
> > > the start and end of each run of building. These are set on nodes within
> > > each building area. I'm also recording the house number opposite a side
> > > junction.
> > >
> > > I would say though that all of this is only really possible if you have
> > > fully mapped out all the roads and other paths and tracks. I was surprised
> > > how easy it is to gather the extra data. Doing it on foot, that's the only
> > > reliable way of ascertaining the house number on each end of a block.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Andy
> >
> > AFAIK, there still isn't an approved way to tag house numbers yet.
> > I've been discussing it on the Wiki. Maybe there is a method for
> > individual buildings, though.
> >
> > Karl
>
> We thrashed out ideas on th wiki the other day and decided upon the following:
>
> The buiding areas are tagged with building=residential (or
> building=whatever if its something else)
>
> The nodes are also tagged with buidling=residential and have an
> additional ref=# on them for the house number.
>
> Will document this in Map Features if it looks to work out ok once rendered.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
> --
> Andy Robinson
>

Okay, that will work for numbering buildings and showing the number on
a map. The argument I'm having on the Wiki is more for house numbering
which can be used for address interpolation along a street. GPS
devices use this sort of numbering (which is my intended application).

Karl

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Re: [OSM-talk] Render icons for parking areas

[Mario Salvini]

Jon Burgess schrieb:
> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 13:41 +0100, Daniel Schmidt wrote:
>   
>>> access=public/private/permissive are all listed on Map_Features, it
>>> isn't clear whether permissive should imply a P symbol or not. The
>>> code needs to handle the other cases too.
>>>   
>> In my understanding, an example for a "permissive" car park would be a  
>> supermarket car park. It's a private car park which is publicly  
>> accessible and you don't have to ask anyone for permission to park.  
>> But you are only allowed to use this car park while shopping in that  
>> particular market. As the usage of this car park is somehow restricted  
>> I wouldn't display a 'P' symbol.
>>
>> The only case where I would place this symbol is when you are allowed  
>> to park your car and go whereever you want for a couple of hours.
>>
>>
>> So:
>> access=public => 'P'
>> access=private => no 'P'
>> access=permissive => no 'P'
>> access=[anything else] => no 'P'
>> no access => 'P' (as most of the current car parks in OSM are probably  
>> public ones but don't have an "access" tag)
>>
>> 
>
> I've made the appropriate updates to the Mapnik osm2pgsql import code so
> that it will only add the automatic 'P' symbol to a parking area if
> there is no access= tag or if there is access=public. Any other
> access= tag will prevent a P being added. 
>
> It will take a week or two before the effect of this change will appear
> on the rendered maps.
>
> In addition I've added the access= key to the list of columns exported
> to the PostgreSQL database so we can add further map styles to
> differentiate other objects with access= on the map.
>
>   
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Approved_features/Parking
Is it hard to change the mapnik-code to render also this approved 
parking-feature?
That would be great :-)

--
mario


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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[Andy Robinson]

On 21/12/2007, David James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, December 21, 2007 6:49 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
> > David James wrote:
> >

>
> Would this description of your technique be a useful addition to the one
> of the Wiki entries on mapping techniques?

Go ahead, please add the comments to the wiki.

Cheers

Andy
-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[Andy Robinson]

On 21/12/2007, Karl Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2007 10:49 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > David James wrote:
> > >Sent: 21 December 2007 5:48 PM
> > >To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week
> > >
> > >
> > >On Fri, December 21, 2007 2:30 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
> > >> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of my
> > >>  local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
> > >> number and other close-in data.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511
> > >>  > >1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0B
> > >> T>
> > >> &lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT
> > >
> > >I don't know whether to be impressed at the level of detail you've
> > >gathered, or depressed because of how small it makes my own efforts look
> > >... :-(
> >
> > Well, its my local area and since I started to map it in 2005 it shouldn't
> > be a surprise that I use it as a bit of a testing area. Some of the earliest
> > ways (sub 50 ID numbers) lurk in there.
> >
> > >
> > >One question - what's the source for the residential=building data (the
> > >rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?
> > >
> >
> > It's a mixture of manual survey and artistic impression. The beginning and
> > end of each run of houses is easy to do by taking a photo of the boundary
> > position which when synchronised in JOSM to the GPX track gives you a pretty
> > accurate location. The setback from the road is guesswork and doesn't yet
> > sit right with the width of the road at every zoom level. The thickness
> > again is guesswork and where I'm trying to give an impression rather than
> > being precise. The same applies to the total run of the building, which in
> > most cases is actually semi detached or detached housing which should really
> > be drawn as individual blocks. Maybe in a couple of year's time I'll feel
> > like going to that extent! for now I'm just making a single continuous run
> > where there are only residential homes along the run. If something else
> > interjects I take a photo of it and tag appropriately.
> >
> > One the house number rendering works you will see I hope little numbers at
> > the start and end of each run of building. These are set on nodes within
> > each building area. I'm also recording the house number opposite a side
> > junction.
> >
> > I would say though that all of this is only really possible if you have
> > fully mapped out all the roads and other paths and tracks. I was surprised
> > how easy it is to gather the extra data. Doing it on foot, that's the only
> > reliable way of ascertaining the house number on each end of a block.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Andy
>
> AFAIK, there still isn't an approved way to tag house numbers yet.
> I've been discussing it on the Wiki. Maybe there is a method for
> individual buildings, though.
>
> Karl

We thrashed out ideas on th wiki the other day and decided upon the following:

The buiding areas are tagged with building=residential (or
building=whatever if its something else)

The nodes are also tagged with buidling=residential and have an
additional ref=# on them for the house number.

Will document this in Map Features if it looks to work out ok once rendered.

Cheers

Andy
-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Render icons for parking areas

[Jon Burgess]

On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 13:41 +0100, Daniel Schmidt wrote:
> > access=public/private/permissive are all listed on Map_Features, it
> > isn't clear whether permissive should imply a P symbol or not. The
> > code needs to handle the other cases too.
> 
> In my understanding, an example for a "permissive" car park would be a  
> supermarket car park. It's a private car park which is publicly  
> accessible and you don't have to ask anyone for permission to park.  
> But you are only allowed to use this car park while shopping in that  
> particular market. As the usage of this car park is somehow restricted  
> I wouldn't display a 'P' symbol.
> 
> The only case where I would place this symbol is when you are allowed  
> to park your car and go whereever you want for a couple of hours.
> 
> 
> So:
> access=public => 'P'
> access=private => no 'P'
> access=permissive => no 'P'
> access=[anything else] => no 'P'
> no access => 'P' (as most of the current car parks in OSM are probably  
> public ones but don't have an "access" tag)
> 

I've made the appropriate updates to the Mapnik osm2pgsql import code so
that it will only add the automatic 'P' symbol to a parking area if
there is no access= tag or if there is access=public. Any other
access= tag will prevent a P being added. 

It will take a week or two before the effect of this change will appear
on the rendered maps.

In addition I've added the access= key to the list of columns exported
to the PostgreSQL database so we can add further map styles to
differentiate other objects with access= on the map.

Jon



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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Alex Mauer]

Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2007 2:30 PM, Alex Mauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
>>> "polygon with holes" and "splitting outside into peices because it's
>>> too long" are incompatable, you either do one or the other.
>> I don't believe there's any technical reason for this -- if a large way
>> can otherwise be split into pieces, and later rejoined by the renderer,
>> I don't see why that rejoined way can't be used as the outside of a
>> polygon with holes.
> 
> Sure, but until someone even *proposes* writing the necessary code it
> seems folish to assume it's going to work anytime soon...

Just saying, that to say they're incompatible is overstating the problem.

-Alex Mauer "hawke"



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Re: [OSM-talk] Layers (was Re: Featured images for christmas week)

[Jason Reid]

David James wrote:
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Andy Robinson (blackadder)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'OJW'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week
>
>
>   
>> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of
>> 
> my
>   
>> local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
>> number and other close-in data.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511&lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT
>
> What does the layers parameter do? and what are the possible values?
>
> If it's documented somewhere, please point me at it, I've tried a search
> in the Wiki and not come up with anything useful, but I may be blind ...
>
>   
The layers parameter in the query string is from OpenLayers itself, it 
corresponds to the layers in the layer selector box on the right (for 
the main map thats the osma and mapnik, and markers choices). If you go 
on informationfreeway.org and look at the permalinks they will be 
different due to the different layers and different number of layers.

-Jason Reid

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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[David James]

On Fri, December 21, 2007 6:49 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
> David James wrote:
>
>>
>> One question - what's the source for the residential=building data (the
>>  rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?
>>
>
> It's a mixture of manual survey and artistic impression. The beginning
> and end of each run of houses is easy to do by taking a photo of the
> boundary position which when synchronised in JOSM to the GPX track gives
> you a pretty accurate location.

Thank you, that's roughly what I'd guessed (though I'd thought of
waypoints rather than photographs - I must get around to trying out
photographs).

> The setback from the road is guesswork and
> doesn't yet sit right with the width of the road at every zoom level. The
> thickness again is guesswork and where I'm trying to give an impression
> rather than being precise.

It was the thickness that I was wondering about. I suppose without the
high resoilution aerial mapping being available, it's difficult to do
better than inspired guesswork.

> The same applies to the total run of the
> building, which in most cases is actually semi detached or detached
> housing which should really be drawn as individual blocks. Maybe in a
> couple of year's time I'll feel like going to that extent! for now I'm
> just making a single continuous run where there are only residential homes
> along the run. If something else interjects I take a photo of it and tag
> appropriately.

Would this description of your technique be a useful addition to the one
of the Wiki entries on mapping techniques?

>
> One the house number rendering works you will see I hope little numbers
> at the start and end of each run of building. These are set on nodes
> within each building area. I'm also recording the house number opposite a
> side junction.
>
> I would say though that all of this is only really possible if you have
> fully mapped out all the roads and other paths and tracks. I was surprised
>  how easy it is to gather the extra data. Doing it on foot, that's the
> only reliable way of ascertaining the house number on each end of a block.

I'm still at the mapping roads level (doing it by car). I figure paths and
tracks come after that, that'll probably need doing on foot - the exercise
will probably do me good.

I have started thinking about mapping the divisions between shops in the
centre of town ...

-- 
David James



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[OSM-talk] Layers (was Re: Featured images for christmas week)

[David James]

- Original Message - 
From: "Andy Robinson (blackadder)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'OJW'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week


> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of
my
> local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
> number and other close-in data.
>
>
>
>
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511&lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT

What does the layers parameter do? and what are the possible values?

If it's documented somewhere, please point me at it, I've tried a search
in the Wiki and not come up with anything useful, but I may be blind ...

-- 
David James



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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[John McKerrell]

On 21 Dec 2007, at 18:49, Andy Robinson ((blackadder)) wrote:

>>
>> I don't know whether to be impressed at the level of detail you've
>> gathered, or depressed because of how small it makes my own  
>> efforts look
>> ... :-(
>
> Well, its my local area and since I started to map it in 2005 it  
> shouldn't
> be a surprise that I use it as a bit of a testing area. Some of the  
> earliest
> ways (sub 50 ID numbers) lurk in there.
>
>>
>> One question - what's the source for the residential=building data  
>> (the
>> rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?
>>
>
> It's a mixture of manual survey and artistic impression. The  
> beginning and
> end of each run of houses is easy to do by taking a photo of the  
> boundary
> position which when synchronised in JOSM to the GPX track gives you  
> a pretty
> accurate location. The setback from the road is guesswork and  
> doesn't yet
> sit right with the width of the road at every zoom level. The  
> thickness
> again is guesswork and where I'm trying to give an impression  
> rather than
> being precise. The same applies to the total run of the building,  
> which in
> most cases is actually semi detached or detached housing which  
> should really
> be drawn as individual blocks. Maybe in a couple of year's time  
> I'll feel
> like going to that extent! for now I'm just making a single  
> continuous run
> where there are only residential homes along the run. If something  
> else
> interjects I take a photo of it and tag appropriately.
>
Hmm... now you've got me thinking of things I can do in my area  
without having to cycle for 20 minutes (yes I know some people have  
it worse than that ;-), and I have aerial imagery to use too so I can  
get each little semi-detached block!

John

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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[Karl Newman]

On Dec 21, 2007 10:49 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David James wrote:
> >Sent: 21 December 2007 5:48 PM
> >To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week
> >
> >
> >On Fri, December 21, 2007 2:30 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
> >> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of my
> >>  local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
> >> number and other close-in data.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511
> >>  >1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0B
> >> T>
> >> &lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT
> >
> >I don't know whether to be impressed at the level of detail you've
> >gathered, or depressed because of how small it makes my own efforts look
> >... :-(
>
> Well, its my local area and since I started to map it in 2005 it shouldn't
> be a surprise that I use it as a bit of a testing area. Some of the earliest
> ways (sub 50 ID numbers) lurk in there.
>
> >
> >One question - what's the source for the residential=building data (the
> >rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?
> >
>
> It's a mixture of manual survey and artistic impression. The beginning and
> end of each run of houses is easy to do by taking a photo of the boundary
> position which when synchronised in JOSM to the GPX track gives you a pretty
> accurate location. The setback from the road is guesswork and doesn't yet
> sit right with the width of the road at every zoom level. The thickness
> again is guesswork and where I'm trying to give an impression rather than
> being precise. The same applies to the total run of the building, which in
> most cases is actually semi detached or detached housing which should really
> be drawn as individual blocks. Maybe in a couple of year's time I'll feel
> like going to that extent! for now I'm just making a single continuous run
> where there are only residential homes along the run. If something else
> interjects I take a photo of it and tag appropriately.
>
> One the house number rendering works you will see I hope little numbers at
> the start and end of each run of building. These are set on nodes within
> each building area. I'm also recording the house number opposite a side
> junction.
>
> I would say though that all of this is only really possible if you have
> fully mapped out all the roads and other paths and tracks. I was surprised
> how easy it is to gather the extra data. Doing it on foot, that's the only
> reliable way of ascertaining the house number on each end of a block.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy

AFAIK, there still isn't an approved way to tag house numbers yet.
I've been discussing it on the Wiki. Maybe there is a method for
individual buildings, though.

Karl

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Re: [OSM-talk] Finding a particular street on the GPS

[Patrick Weber]

Lambertus wrote:

>Karl Newman wrote:
>  
>
>>Actually, for the full-featured version that does everything with no
>>restrictions, it's USD2800... However, you can get free access to that
>>version online if you're willing to share your maps with the world.
>>It's at mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com The other complicating factor is that
>>there is currently no path from OSM data to cGPSMapper format. That's
>>a project I'm planning, but I need to get some key pieces in place
>>first. I actually rewrote the osmgarminmap XSLT stylesheet to
>>transform OSM data into routable cGPSMapper format, but xsltproc
>>chokes on even moderate-sized data (10 MB), so it's not usable.
>>
>>The other big factor is that there is no agreement on how to do
>>street/house numbers yet, so there's limited data in OSM anyway. I've
>>discussing the proposal on the Wiki recently and it's been a bit
>>frustrating because nobody seems to get my point.
>>
>>
>>
>I'm also working on creating Garmin maps (using Mkgmap). Mkgmap cannot 
>create maps in the routable format so I'm looking also at cGPSMapper. I 
>don't think the webservice is suitable for large scale routable map 
>generation for OSM, so I'm trying to work out a solution that involves 
>aquiring a full licence.
>
>Below is a rough idea:
>OSM, or a 3rd party (you, me?) setup a service that creates and 
>distributes all sorts of Garmin maps (regular, topographic, 
>cycle/outdoor centric, routable, etc.). This includes aquiring a full 
>licence of cGPSMapper. Some maps could be free but others might require 
>a donation or a subscription. The income generated by selling the more 
>featured maps could be used to finance the license. Keeping the fees low 
>should make the service attractive for lots of Garmin owners without 
>driving them to create their own homebrew maps.
>  
>
Definitely would be interested in getting routing to work with OSM Data 
on my Garmin GPSMap60Csx. I recently tried to generate a IMG file with 
mkgmap and failed miserably (using the UK extract).
If donations are needed for a license of cGPSmapper, I would be willing 
to donate to the cause!

I like the test web IMG download interface Lambertus has done, it would 
be great if this could be extended to the rest of Europe (and the 
world), and if the IMG's behind could support routing.

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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed feature, opinions requested

[J.D. Schmidt]

Frederik Ramm skrev:
> Hi,
> 
>> Including
>> landuse=ToiletAndBathAreaAtRoskildeFestival_Bring_NoseClamp_On_Day_Two_and_Later.
>>  
>>
>> I'm suggesting a shitty-brownish-yellow color for that one, right away.
>>
>> Is it really necessary to go that finegrained down, in the definition of
>> the landuse tag ?
> 
> No, I think that landusue=ToiletAndBathArea would suffice, maybe amended 
> by surface=swamp and hazard=odour.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 

Let me guess - You've also been to one of the wet Roskilde Festivals, 
'cause that certainly describes it very well according to my memories..

Dutch

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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[Andy Robinson (blackadder)]

David James wrote:
>Sent: 21 December 2007 5:48 PM
>To: talk@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week
>
>
>On Fri, December 21, 2007 2:30 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
>> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of my
>>  local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
>> number and other close-in data.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511
>> 1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0B
>> T>
>> &lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT
>
>I don't know whether to be impressed at the level of detail you've
>gathered, or depressed because of how small it makes my own efforts look
>... :-(

Well, its my local area and since I started to map it in 2005 it shouldn't
be a surprise that I use it as a bit of a testing area. Some of the earliest
ways (sub 50 ID numbers) lurk in there.

>
>One question - what's the source for the residential=building data (the
>rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?
>

It's a mixture of manual survey and artistic impression. The beginning and
end of each run of houses is easy to do by taking a photo of the boundary
position which when synchronised in JOSM to the GPX track gives you a pretty
accurate location. The setback from the road is guesswork and doesn't yet
sit right with the width of the road at every zoom level. The thickness
again is guesswork and where I'm trying to give an impression rather than
being precise. The same applies to the total run of the building, which in
most cases is actually semi detached or detached housing which should really
be drawn as individual blocks. Maybe in a couple of year's time I'll feel
like going to that extent! for now I'm just making a single continuous run
where there are only residential homes along the run. If something else
interjects I take a photo of it and tag appropriately.

One the house number rendering works you will see I hope little numbers at
the start and end of each run of building. These are set on nodes within
each building area. I'm also recording the house number opposite a side
junction.

I would say though that all of this is only really possible if you have
fully mapped out all the roads and other paths and tracks. I was surprised
how easy it is to gather the extra data. Doing it on foot, that's the only
reliable way of ascertaining the house number on each end of a block.

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[David James]

On Fri, December 21, 2007 2:30 pm, Andy Robinson \(blackadder\) wrote:
> If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of my
>  local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
> number and other close-in data.
>
>
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511
>  T>
> &lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT

I don't know whether to be impressed at the level of detail you've
gathered, or depressed because of how small it makes my own efforts look
... :-(

One question - what's the source for the residential=building data (the
rectangle-ish areas at the sides of the roads)?

-- 
David James



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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Dec 21, 2007 2:30 PM, Alex Mauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> > "polygon with holes" and "splitting outside into peices because it's
> > too long" are incompatable, you either do one or the other.
>
> I don't believe there's any technical reason for this -- if a large way
> can otherwise be split into pieces, and later rejoined by the renderer,
> I don't see why that rejoined way can't be used as the outside of a
> polygon with holes.

Sure, but until someone even *proposes* writing the necessary code it
seems folish to assume it's going to work anytime soon...

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Finding a particular street on the GPS

[Karl Newman]

On Dec 21, 2007 7:32 AM, Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > Interesting idea. I know mapcenter is not sufficient for a huge
> > project such as this, but it's good for free testing. My thinking is
> > in line with yours--I was thinking at some point OSM might acquire a
> > full license (note that the author has a reduced license cost for
> > charities--maybe OSM or OSMF might qualify?). I'm not sure I'm the guy
> > to be responsible for running it (I've already got a lot going on),
> > but I'm certainly willing to help set it up.
>
> Would it not be worthwile to try and fix our (free) software to be
> able to do what cGPSMapper does, instead of buying (and relying on)
> non-free software that is developed by one person alone and might
> vanish any day without anybody having the source?
>
> I don't know how compilicated that is but I'm sure the cGPSMapper
> author is no magician so we should be able to accomplish what he has,
> and make the world less dependent on proprietary software while doing
> so...?
>
> Bye
> Frederik

Frederik, yes, that would be the ideal case. It's a matter of reverse
engineering. From what I can tell, the mkgmap project was made
possible by the work done here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/garmin-img/ Unfortunately I don't have
the time to give this my dedicated focus that reverse engineering
requires.

However, it's not the worst thing to use this proprietary software.
The so-called "Polish format" has sort of become the de-facto standard
for custom maps and there are a number of graphical editor tools which
support the format (GPSMapEdit, Global Mapper, etc.). GPSMapEdit even
has the ability to test your routing before you send it through
cGPSMapper. That's what I did to verify that my XSL was working
correctly.

If someone wants to focus on reverse engineering the routeable bits of
the IMG format, that would be awesome. It's independent of the work
I'm planning to do, though. If someone figures out the format, I'd
just switch the output to write to that binary format instead of text.
Note that there's a new compressed Garmin map format called NT, and
I'm guessing eventually new receivers will only support that. To my
knowledge it has not been reverse engineered at all.

Karl

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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Alex Mauer]

Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> "polygon with holes" and "splitting outside into peices because it's
> too long" are incompatable, you either do one or the other. 

I don't believe there's any technical reason for this -- if a large way
can otherwise be split into pieces, and later rejoined by the renderer,
I don't see why that rejoined way can't be used as the outside of a
polygon with holes.

> A
> riverbank has to be a single closed polygon, the only area feature
> exempt from this rule is "natural=coastline".

Perhaps that should be changed, though I have no idea how hard this is
to do in the renderer.

> TBH, I'd forget the multipolygon stuff and draw the islands as
> natural=land or some such...

A nice thought, if it rendered properly.  Or has that changed now?

-Alex Mauer "hawke"



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[OSM-talk] [EMAIL PROTECTED] zoom 10

[Alex Mauer]

The black casing added to primary/secondary/trunk/motorway roads at zoom
10 makes them look ugly, because it turns a dirty gray with some nasty
aliasing at that thickness.

Side-by-side comparison is currently visible here:

http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=44.07111987785317&lon=-89.19632465632583&zoom=10&layers=B000F000

One zoom out, the newer render looks nicer because of the lack of
casing.  One zoom in, the dirty gray appearence goes away, but the
aliasing of the casing still looks ugly.

Also, without the unclassified/residential roads being rendered, the map
looks fairly barren at zoom 10.

Opinions?

-Alex Mauer "hawke"



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Re: [OSM-talk] Finding a particular street on the GPS

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> Interesting idea. I know mapcenter is not sufficient for a huge
> project such as this, but it's good for free testing. My thinking is
> in line with yours--I was thinking at some point OSM might acquire a
> full license (note that the author has a reduced license cost for
> charities--maybe OSM or OSMF might qualify?). I'm not sure I'm the guy
> to be responsible for running it (I've already got a lot going on),
> but I'm certainly willing to help set it up.

Would it not be worthwile to try and fix our (free) software to be
able to do what cGPSMapper does, instead of buying (and relying on)
non-free software that is developed by one person alone and might
vanish any day without anybody having the source?

I don't know how compilicated that is but I'm sure the cGPSMapper
author is no magician so we should be able to accomplish what he has,
and make the world less dependent on proprietary software while doing
so...?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00.09' E008°23.33'


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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[John McKerrell]

Don't worry, I'm not suggesting this should be used but I thought  
some of you might like it:


http://www.multimap.com/static/card2007/

Seasons greetings to everyone, have a good holiday if you're taking one,

John

P.S. It's not OSM based so don't worry that we've inserted "Jingle  
Bell Way" into the database ;-)


On 21 Dec 2007, at 14:30, Andy Robinson ((blackadder)) wrote:

If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image  
of my local area that might be considered. I’ve just started  
gathering house number and other close-in data.




http://www.openstreetmap.org/? 
lat=52.55511&lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT




Cheers



Andy



>-Original Message-

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OJW

>Sent: 21 December 2007 2:10 PM

>To: talk@openstreetmap.org

>Subject: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

>

>Now taking suggestions for christmas week's featured images.

>

>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Featured_images

>

>These will be visible on the front page during the holiday (while  
people


>are

>playing with their new computers/GPS's/etc) so let's have some  
good images


>to

>choose from

>

>

>

>___

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Re: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[Andy Robinson (blackadder)]

If house number rendering gets implemented in time I'll do an image of my
local area that might be considered. I've just started gathering house
number and other close-in data.

 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.55511

&lon=-1.81947&zoom=17&layers=0BT 

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

>-Original Message-

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OJW

>Sent: 21 December 2007 2:10 PM

>To: talk@openstreetmap.org

>Subject: [OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

> 

>Now taking suggestions for christmas week's featured images.

> 

>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Featured_images

> 

>These will be visible on the front page during the holiday (while people

>are

>playing with their new computers/GPS's/etc) so let's have some good images

>to

>choose from

> 

> 

> 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Finding a particular street on the GPS

[Karl Newman]

On Dec 21, 2007 12:41 AM, Lambertus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Karl Newman wrote:
> > Actually, for the full-featured version that does everything with no
> > restrictions, it's USD2800... However, you can get free access to that
> > version online if you're willing to share your maps with the world.
> > It's at mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com The other complicating factor is that
> > there is currently no path from OSM data to cGPSMapper format. That's
> > a project I'm planning, but I need to get some key pieces in place
> > first. I actually rewrote the osmgarminmap XSLT stylesheet to
> > transform OSM data into routable cGPSMapper format, but xsltproc
> > chokes on even moderate-sized data (10 MB), so it's not usable.
> >
> > The other big factor is that there is no agreement on how to do
> > street/house numbers yet, so there's limited data in OSM anyway. I've
> > discussing the proposal on the Wiki recently and it's been a bit
> > frustrating because nobody seems to get my point.
> >
> I'm also working on creating Garmin maps (using Mkgmap). Mkgmap cannot
> create maps in the routable format so I'm looking also at cGPSMapper. I
> don't think the webservice is suitable for large scale routable map
> generation for OSM, so I'm trying to work out a solution that involves
> aquiring a full licence.
>
> Below is a rough idea:
> OSM, or a 3rd party (you, me?) setup a service that creates and
> distributes all sorts of Garmin maps (regular, topographic,
> cycle/outdoor centric, routable, etc.). This includes aquiring a full
> licence of cGPSMapper. Some maps could be free but others might require
> a donation or a subscription. The income generated by selling the more
> featured maps could be used to finance the license. Keeping the fees low
> should make the service attractive for lots of Garmin owners without
> driving them to create their own homebrew maps.
>

Interesting idea. I know mapcenter is not sufficient for a huge
project such as this, but it's good for free testing. My thinking is
in line with yours--I was thinking at some point OSM might acquire a
full license (note that the author has a reduced license cost for
charities--maybe OSM or OSMF might qualify?). I'm not sure I'm the guy
to be responsible for running it (I've already got a lot going on),
but I'm certainly willing to help set it up.

Karl

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[OSM-talk] Featured images for christmas week

[OJW]

Now taking suggestions for christmas week's featured images.  

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Featured_images

These will be visible on the front page during the holiday (while people are 
playing with their new computers/GPS's/etc) so let's have some good images to 
choose from



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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Dirk-Lüder Kreie]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Martijn van Oosterhout schrieb:
> On Dec 20, 2007 11:44 PM, Alex Mauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I have used the multipolygon relation to draw islands in rivers.  It is 
>>> specifically intended for drawing holes in areas and worked very well for 
>>> me.
>>>
>> I've tried to use it for this, but I run into problems when the river
>> bank is too large for a single way.  (I split the ways at 129 nodes, but
>>  the exact number doesn't matter)
> 
> "polygon with holes" and "splitting outside into peices because it's
> too long" are incompatable, you either do one or the other. A
> riverbank has to be a single closed polygon, the only area feature
> exempt from this rule is "natural=coastline".
> 
> TBH, I'd forget the multipolygon stuff and draw the islands as
> natural=land or some such...

I would not do so, for a number of reasons, especially when the area in
the "inner" part is really not a part of the outer polygon (is an island
part of the water area?) and it also creates a number of rendering
funniness:

http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=mapnik&mt1=tah&lon=4.490018&lat=51.9153147&z=14

- --

Dirk-Lüder "Deelkar" Kreie
Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E

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=QZ5A
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Re: [OSM-talk] namespacing of tags

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Alex L. Mauer wrote:
> Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote:
>> Robin Paulson wrote:
>>> there a few proposals currently on the wiki that have comments
>>> regarding namespacing of tags. i understand the general concept of
>>> what it is, but why do we need it? it appears to me to be an
>>> unnecessary complication for a tag
> 
> IMO they should also be put in a namespace when the key itself is vague,
> e.g. "type", "class", "surface", "status"..
> 
> type of what?  class of what?  status of what? how does this surface
> value apply?  Is it saying that the tagged thing is on the surface, or
> is it describing the surface of the tagged thing?

You mean like:

highway=foo
highway:type=bar
highway:surface=gravel

If so, good point, but it's only needed if one way or node represents 2
physical things, which IMHO it shouldn't (create a duplicate if necessary).

I suppose something like (I know this isn't approved tagging - I'm just
trying to construct an example where namespaces are clear):

building=church
building:height=50m
amenity=place_of_worship
place_of_worship:denomination=christian

But that doesn't quite work because the place_of_worship namespace is
the value of the amenity tag, not the name of it as above, so it's
inconsistent. Do people think we should consider moving to tagging like
this?

Robert (Jamie) Munro
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=Pj6V
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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Michael Kugelmann]

Hello Chris,

> I modified Jon Burgess's step by step list from his email and added it to the 
> relation Wiki page: 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Multipolygon
>   
verry good idea to add this to the Wiki page. Thanks. I just added a 
short "using JOSM". AFAIK: Potlatch and Merkaartor don't support 
relations right now (please correct if I'm wrong).


Merry christmas and a happy new year,
Michael. (OSM: MichaelK)


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Re: [OSM-talk] American or british english

[Gregory]

On 20/12/2007, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> or do the renderers check for alternative spellings?
>


I saw this today: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/emj/diary/696
And my response was to think that it would make a good JOSM plugin so users
can tag in their own language and before the data is uploaded then it all
gets translated (apart from anything like name values) back to the British
English keys.

I'd be up for doing it but I've only just started learning java and wouldn't
know how to write a plugin.

-- 
Gregory
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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[OSM-talk] New Hourly Changeset Directory

[Brett Henderson]

Hi All,

The existing hourly changesets available at 
http://planet.openstreetmap.org/daily/hourly/ have moved to 
http://planet.openstreetmap.org/hourly/
The existing directory is still available (using a symlink to the new 
directory) but will be deleted soon.

Cheers,
Brett


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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Chris Hill]

> Alex Mauer wrote:
> > Chris Hill wrote:
> > 
> > I have used the multipolygon relation to draw islands in rivers. 
> >It
> 
 >is specifically intended for drawing holes in areas and worked
> very
> 
 >well for me.
> > 
> 
> I've tried to use it for this, but I run into problems when the river
> bank is too large for a single way.  (I split the ways at 129
> nodes,
> 
 but
>  the exact number doesn't matter)
> 
> Here is the result:
> 
> http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=46.381337247472786&lon=-90.25169857324616
> &zoom=8&layers=B000F000
> 
> It appears to me that it mostly works, but then the renderer randomly
> decides to treat one of the islands with an "inner" role as if it had a
> role of "outer" instead of following the ring of "outer" ways.
> 
> 
I too broke a river into chunks, though it's smaller than your river. 
Each chunk has an area drawn with a clockwise way marked as waterway=riverbank. 
 The chunks butt up
to one another.  The islands have a way drawn anticlockwise, which is
important for the Osmarender renderer.  They are also tagged with 
waterway=riverbank.

You can take a look at:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7207&lon=-0.7214&zoom=12&layers=0BF 



I modified Jon Burgess's step by step list from his email and added it to the 
relation Wiki page: 



http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Multipolygon



This renders well at zoom 12 and higher, but lower zooms do not seem to render. 
 
cheers,Chris


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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed feature, opinions requested

[Michael Collinson]

At 09:33 AM 12/21/2007, Abigail Brady wrote:
On Dec 21, 2007 5:28 AM, J.D. Schmidt 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Is it really necessary to go that finegrained down, in the definition of
the landuse tag ?


Certainly yes.

Do we want a psychedelic multicolored map, or do we want something that
people can stand to look at for prolonged durations ? If the former is
the general consensus, we should already now think about putting a
disclaimer directed at the possible viewers suffering from visually
induced epileptic seizures, at the bottom of the mappage...


Just because it is tagged differently doesn't mean that general 
renderers have to use the different colours to display.  A custom 
airport renderer would *certainly* want to distinguish between air 
land and nearby industrial land.


Well put.  The OSM database, the tags, represents a brain-dump from 
each individual mapper.  The more we can can capture in one go, the 
better.  Emphasis to date has naturally been on the generic renderers 
but I'm looking forward to 2008 being the year of the specialists: 
tourism, local micromaps, sports, hobbies, organisations, 
occupational, scientific, language, culture ... Nick's UK hiker 
Freemap and Andy's cycle initiative are only excellent 
beginnings.  These will be what clearly put clear blue water between 
us and the commercial offerings.


Mike
Stockholm
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Re: [OSM-talk] Application idea - "OSMSiteMaker"

[Lester Caine]

Nick Whitelegg wrote:
>> Being able to extract a defined area would be useful rather than having to 
>> use 
>> the whole planet dump. But would dumping that as shape files really be 
>> useful? 
>> A set of local copies of the relevant tiles could be useful, 
> 
> I was thinking of custom styles - if people wanted to use their own styles 
> they might want to generate their own tiles rather than use the defaults.
A custom means of creating the tiles - yep that would be useful.

>> but personally 
>> being able to run a fully editable map for say a local council - information 
>>from which could then be passed back to OSM - would be useful. They can then 
>> add private local data over the top which is allowed.
> 
> Do you mean the ability to edit the roads, or just the POIs? The former 
> would probably involve installing an editor like Potlatch locally whilst 
> the latter would be (relatively) easy to implement.
Both
Which is why I'm thinking a custom slice of the OSM data. The thought at the 
moment is that councils are often drawing up 'new boundaries' or highlighting 
areas on their 'local plan', so a means that does not involve highlighters and 
a scanner seems like a good idea?
Certainly a means of running local editing could be very useful, and if that 
fine detail then feeds back into OSM 

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed feature, opinions requested

[Andy Allan]

On Dec 21, 2007 8:33 AM, Abigail Brady <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 21, 2007 5:28 AM, J.D. Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is it really necessary to go that finegrained down, in the definition of
> > the landuse tag ?
> >
>
> Certainly yes.

OK. But why not have different levels of fine-grained-ness? We could
pair off the tags, such as

landuse=industrial
industrial=X

That way, we group together related landuse types, and make life
easier for many applications. For example, a countryside renderer may
not care about the different types of industrial landuses, and want to
render all of them the same without having to have a list of dozens of
industrial landuse types.

If we have everything in a massive flat taxonomy, then every
application needs to know about every tag, no matter how specialist.
But perhaps it'll all come out in the wash anyway, since someone will
make an out-of-band hierarchy available to applications for
pre-processing the multitude of tags. But an in-band heirarchy would
be more useful, I believe.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] WhereAmI: OSM on your mobile

[tim]

I think these vector osm mobile applications are really the future.

I thought that one of the interesting features, is the ability to post
back to a server corrections, or notes, bringing live editing on a
phone much closer.

now...perhaps Santa will give me a S60 for Christmas so I can play with it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] American or british english

[David Earl]

> or do the renderers check for alternative spellings?

The namefinder can check for alternatives like this so if you enter "The 
Arndale Center" in principle it can find "The Arndale Centre". I will 
add centre<->center as equivalents shortly. If there are any more that 
appear in real names that you think are important, there's a wiki page 
to note them on (perhaps create a US English section)

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Name_finder:Abbreviations

An abbreviation isn't much different from an equivalence, though it's 
not designed for complete translations (I wouldn't want to put Strasse = 
Street for example, but where someone might type one for another because 
of a subtle difference like Center and Centre, I think it is reasonable).

Just put "Center" in the abbreviation column for full word "Centre" for 
example.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] American or british english

[Dave Stubbs]

On 20/12/2007, Hanno Böck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am Donnerstag 20 Dezember 2007 schrieb Robin Paulson:
> > i presume this is for things like 'The Arndale Centre' i.e. proper
> > nouns (names) of buildings/areas etc? in which case, the spelling is
> > dependent on whatever the owner of the structure chooses.
> > if they spell it 'centre', then it's 'centre'.
> > if they spell it 'center', then it's 'center'.
> > if they spell it 'senterr' then it's 'senterr'.
> > imo we're here to reflect reality, not make political or otherwise
> > statements about the validity of any language or dialect over any
> > other
>
> ACK, if it's for names, stick to the one which is used there.
>
> > or maybe it's for the name of the actual tag key? in that case, it
> > doesn't really matter - whatever the proposer comes up with. i would
> > hope there wouldn't be any silly arguments over which to use, so long
> > as everyone sticks to it when they map
>
> I thought about that. I just proposed education_centre, where I thought about
> it.
> I don't mind either, just was curious if there's some policy.
>

Mostly so far tag names are GB English, ie: highway=motorway is
definitely using the GB meaning of these words, and we have
amenity=sports_centre, and postal_code= (not zip_code= ).
So if we're just sticking to something then GB English would be the
obvious choice, but try to avoid confusing terms such as
sport=football...

Dave
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Re: [OSM-talk] Application idea - "OSMSiteMaker"

[Nick Whitelegg]

>Being able to extract a defined area would be useful rather than having 
to use 
>the whole planet dump. But would dumping that as shape files really be 
useful? 
>A set of local copies of the relevant tiles could be useful, 

I was thinking of custom styles - if people wanted to use their own styles 
they might want to generate their own tiles rather than use the defaults.

>but personally 
>being able to run a fully editable map for say a local council - 
information 
>from which could then be passed back to OSM - would be useful. They can 
then 
>add private local data over the top which is allowed.

Do you mean the ability to edit the roads, or just the POIs? The former 
would probably involve installing an editor like Potlatch locally whilst 
the latter would be (relatively) easy to implement.

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Application idea - "OSMSiteMaker"

[Tom Chance]

On Friday 21 December 2007 09:04:54 Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Was thinking that it might be an idea to develop an application to allow
> people to set up their own local OSM-based sites for very local areas e.g.
> 20x20 miles - in the UK, that could include, for example, the New Forest,
> the Lake District or Manchester. I was thinking of the scenario where
> people might not want to set up/be able to set up (due to their hosting) a
> full PostGIS database, but could instead run a Mapnik-based site off
> shapefiles - which, if I remember from tests, is efficient enough for a
> small area.
>
> Does this sound a good idea?

However it is done - yes. The easier we can make it for people to use OSM the 
better, and putting a slippy map like that on your site is a bit of a faff at 
the moment from what I can see.

Kind regards,
Tom

-- 
| Green Party Speaker on Intellectual Property and Free Software |
| http://tom.acrewoods.net::http://www.greenparty.org.uk |

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Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to draw areas with holes?

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Dec 20, 2007 11:44 PM, Alex Mauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have used the multipolygon relation to draw islands in rivers.  It is 
> > specifically intended for drawing holes in areas and worked very well for 
> > me.
> >
>
> I've tried to use it for this, but I run into problems when the river
> bank is too large for a single way.  (I split the ways at 129 nodes, but
>  the exact number doesn't matter)

"polygon with holes" and "splitting outside into peices because it's
too long" are incompatable, you either do one or the other. A
riverbank has to be a single closed polygon, the only area feature
exempt from this rule is "natural=coastline".

TBH, I'd forget the multipolygon stuff and draw the islands as
natural=land or some such...

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/

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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed feature, opinions requested

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> Including
> landuse=ToiletAndBathAreaAtRoskildeFestival_Bring_NoseClamp_On_Day_Two 
> _and_Later.
> I'm suggesting a shitty-brownish-yellow color for that one, right  
> away.
>
> Is it really necessary to go that finegrained down, in the  
> definition of
> the landuse tag ?

No, I think that landusue=ToiletAndBathArea would suffice, maybe  
amended by surface=swamp and hazard=odour.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00.09' E008°23.33'



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Re: [OSM-talk] Flooded tile

[Paul Jaggard]

Cheers, but I tried that over several weeks, didn't make any difference.
Might have confused it by choosing 'mixed' first time I tried.  Tried again
later and got 'you've already voted'.  Tried again last night and got a 403
error...

Paul.

From: D Tucny [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 21 December 2007 05:43
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Flooded tile

On 21/12/2007, Paul Jaggard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi

Quick question.  I'm sure it's something I can fix myself, but can't
remember how - could someone set the [EMAIL PROTECTED] tile at 12/2018/1359
(Oldbury-on-Severn) to be on land, please?

Since the coastline got moved down the Severn and replaced by a riverbank, 
it's been a bit wet round here.  :-)

The easiest way is to use http://www.informationfreeway.org/ hold your mouse
pointer over the tile in question, then press 'l' (the options are shown in
grey at the bottom of the screen)... 

d



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[OSM-talk] proposal; voting now open

[Robin Paulson]

this has been under proposal for a month now, with no objections

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Climbing_Wall

voting is now open

thanks

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Re: [OSM-talk] Application idea - "OSMSiteMaker"

[Lester Caine]

Nick Whitelegg wrote:
> Was thinking that it might be an idea to develop an application to allow 
> people to set up their own local OSM-based sites for very local areas e.g. 
> 20x20 miles - in the UK, that could include, for example, the New Forest, the 
> Lake District or Manchester. I was thinking of the scenario where people 
> might not want to set up/be able to set up (due to their hosting) a full 
> PostGIS database, but could instead run a Mapnik-based site off shapefiles - 
> which, if I remember from tests, is efficient enough for a small area.
> 
> Does this sound a good idea?

Being able to extract a defined area would be useful rather than having to use 
the whole planet dump. But would dumping that as shape files really be useful? 
A set of local copies of the relevant tiles could be useful, but personally 
being able to run a fully editable map for say a local council - information 
from which could then be passed back to OSM - would be useful. They can then 
add private local data over the top which is allowed?

I've just progressed from postcode to LLPG address data, so a nice map is the 
logical follow on ;)

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php

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Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org and API down

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Nick Whitelegg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Giving 500 errors.

I think our servers just entered the twilight zone or something...

At roughly 0400 GMT the internet facing network interface on db2
stopped talking to the world. The consequence of that would have
been that the bulk upload and [EMAIL PROTECTED] would have started failing
and normal API requests would have been forced through a smaller
number of daemons than normal although given the time of day it
doesn't seem to have too much effect on that.

I accessed db2 via the internal interface and rebooted it shortly
before 0900 GMT after somebody advised on IRC that it appeared to
be down. I assumed at that point that everything was OK again.

When I saw your email I had a look and found that at 0735 GMT the
mysql daemon on the database server had decided to shut down for
reasons that are not at all clear - it looks from the logs like a
clean shutdown rather than a crash but there was nobody logged in
at the time.

The database was restarted at 0910 GMT and everything looks like
it is running OK again now.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed feature, opinions requested

[Robin Paulson]

On 21/12/2007, J.D. Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why not just use k=landuse v=industrial ?
>
> Works for me for both ports and airports, since both are industries -
> one involving transport by air, and one involving transport by sea.

well, lots of things are industries, so that doesn't really hold.
should they all be the same colour? not imo

> Otherwise I foresee we will end up with a multitude of values for the
> landuse tag, that the rendererengines  need stylesheets for.

great. stylesheets are easy to write

>
> Including
> landuse=ToiletAndBathAreaAtRoskildeFestival_Bring_NoseClamp_On_Day_Two_and_Later.
> I'm suggesting a shitty-brownish-yellow color for that one, right away.

that's slightly more extreme than my suggestion. i sense a straw-man
argument here

> Is it really necessary to go that finegrained down, in the definition of
> the landuse tag ?

yes, it is. the more info the better

> Do we want a psychedelic multicolored map, or do we want something that
> people can stand to look at for prolonged durations ? If the former is
> the general consensus, we should already now think about putting a
> disclaimer directed at the possible viewers suffering from visually
> induced epileptic seizures, at the bottom of the mappage...

well, that's got nothing to do with me/us really. we're not creating a
map, we're recording information that can be used for a map. it's up
to the maintainers of the renderers to decide what info to show. if
they want all industrial areas (including airports, sea ports, etc) to
show as one colour then they can. if they don't then they can display
them as many colours. but if we log them all as the same, they have no
option. there cannot be too much information - disk space and
bandwidth are not an issue (as far as i'm aware).

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[OSM-talk] Application idea - "OSMSiteMaker"

[Nick Whitelegg]

Was thinking that it might be an idea to develop an application to allow 
people to set up their own local OSM-based sites for very local areas e.g. 
20x20 miles - in the UK, that could include, for example, the New Forest, the 
Lake District or Manchester. I was thinking of the scenario where people 
might not want to set up/be able to set up (due to their hosting) a full 
PostGIS database, but could instead run a Mapnik-based site off shapefiles - 
which, if I remember from tests, is efficient enough for a small area.

Does this sound a good idea?

Nick

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[OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org and API down

[Nick Whitelegg]

Giving 500 errors.

Nick

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Re: [OSM-talk] Finding a particular street on the GPS

[Lambertus]

Karl Newman wrote:
> Actually, for the full-featured version that does everything with no
> restrictions, it's USD2800... However, you can get free access to that
> version online if you're willing to share your maps with the world.
> It's at mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com The other complicating factor is that
> there is currently no path from OSM data to cGPSMapper format. That's
> a project I'm planning, but I need to get some key pieces in place
> first. I actually rewrote the osmgarminmap XSLT stylesheet to
> transform OSM data into routable cGPSMapper format, but xsltproc
> chokes on even moderate-sized data (10 MB), so it's not usable.
> 
> The other big factor is that there is no agreement on how to do
> street/house numbers yet, so there's limited data in OSM anyway. I've
> discussing the proposal on the Wiki recently and it's been a bit
> frustrating because nobody seems to get my point.
> 
I'm also working on creating Garmin maps (using Mkgmap). Mkgmap cannot 
create maps in the routable format so I'm looking also at cGPSMapper. I 
don't think the webservice is suitable for large scale routable map 
generation for OSM, so I'm trying to work out a solution that involves 
aquiring a full licence.

Below is a rough idea:
OSM, or a 3rd party (you, me?) setup a service that creates and 
distributes all sorts of Garmin maps (regular, topographic, 
cycle/outdoor centric, routable, etc.). This includes aquiring a full 
licence of cGPSMapper. Some maps could be free but others might require 
a donation or a subscription. The income generated by selling the more 
featured maps could be used to finance the license. Keeping the fees low 
should make the service attractive for lots of Garmin owners without 
driving them to create their own homebrew maps.

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Re: [OSM-talk] proposed feature, opinions requested

[Abigail Brady]

On Dec 21, 2007 5:28 AM, J.D. Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is it really necessary to go that finegrained down, in the definition of
> the landuse tag ?
>

Certainly yes.


> Do we want a psychedelic multicolored map, or do we want something that
> people can stand to look at for prolonged durations ? If the former is
> the general consensus, we should already now think about putting a
> disclaimer directed at the possible viewers suffering from visually
> induced epileptic seizures, at the bottom of the mappage...
>

Just because it is tagged differently doesn't mean that general renderers
have to use the different colours to display.  A custom airport renderer
would *certainly* want to distinguish between air land and nearby industrial
land.

-- 
Abi
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