Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - model aerodrome
Robin Paulson wrote: this proposal has been languishing for 2+ months now, with little discussion http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Model%27s_Aerodrome please could i get some comments I've posted comments there but I think that we need to get a higher level discussion under way on the hierarchy of the tagging system. And I'm not sure where to start it? Here or create a wiki page? I'll outline things here. There are two areas to be covered which are probably separate discussions but they dovetail together logically. Simply FINDING a tag is currently tedious and then knowing what to use with that tag becomes even more fun :( We have a number of top keys which I think need to be combined and layered to give a more logical progression. Going back to basics we have two types of element to manage a linear structure or an area ( a node is just a special case of an area, but even that may well have an area at a large enough scale ). The only difference between the two is that the line segments on an area must meet at the ends and while the M25 may be a circle, the area within it is different to the route itself. highway, waterway and railway are essentially 'way' type=xxx to which cycle, track, aerial can then be added. But rather than being too drastic, I think that three basic definitions can be applied to keep top level more manageable. highway - unconstrained route railway - constrained by track ( should be trackway but that will confuse ) waterway - constrained by water course Cycleway is just a type of highway Tracktype is just a secondary key for a number of highway types Aerialway is a type of railway There *IS* a case for simply combining all three, but apart from a few special cases the general rule is that vehicles do not move from one type to the other. I'll ignore amphibious cars, and the busway discussion identifies that only specially modified vehicles should move from highway to trackway. Airports are obviously a slight ambiguity since they have highways for taxiing and for taking off, but an airport should be a bounded area containing those features. I think this actually highlights the problem with the current structure where aeroway=aerodrome is defined for nodes when in fact it is an area? This is where the other discussion dovetails in ... All of the component parts of an airport 'is_in' the airport, but this is currently not managed properly. In the same way that country, county/state, town, locality and the like are not managed. We need as a matter of urgency to correctly manage the relationship between areas and the structures they contain. YES there are problems where an area straddles other areas, but that is just a special case that needs handling. If I search for all 'model_aerodrome' in the UK that is a reasonable request, but having to add 'is_in' to every tag is not the solution and needs to stopped now? Once we have the concept of area, landuse becomes obvious, and amenity in that area follows on? retail-shop ? cafe and the like leisure-sport ? even where professional activity the watching of is leisure military-military Obviously linear features like power lines, underground storm drains and the like need catering for but those type of features may just a special case? ( I'd still like to see numeric tagging with a multilingual title table even though I only speak English but that will come another day, for the moment we have to use English keys for the translation table :( - it would be nice if the translated versions of Map_Features had a column for the translated tag names! ) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to photo fold-out maps
Lars Aronsson wrote: I have an 1909 out-of-copyright book from the library. It has a fold-out map that is bound with the book, so I can't take it out. How do I hold the map flat to get a good photo? My current photos are not my proudest moment: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LA2-stridfin-overviewmap-left.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LA2-stridfin-overviewmap-right.jpg I have a lot of material like this, and even when it's removed from the book and flattened it still does not scan properly. For this map http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/index.php?page=British+Isles I ended up scanning each section and then tidying things up with paintshoppro. ( I still need to load the larger versions that go with each page of that - 4Gb! ) I think the only way to get truly flat images is via a rotary scanner which is obviously out of the question with a book :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk MEDW - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to photo fold-out maps
Lester Caine wrote: For this map http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/index.php?page=British+Isles I ended up scanning each section and then tidying things up with paintshoppro. Yes, I'm taking that approach with the NPE scans at the moment - scan as is, then manually straighten. I've written a bit of Perl to do this, using the fabulous Imager library: http://search.cpan.org/src/TONYC/Imager-0.62/samples/quad_to_square.pl but I believe you can also do it with gdal should you so desire. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - lake
At 03:46 AM 1/11/2008, Robin Paulson wrote: is there any reason why this proposal has so many opposers? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Lake it seems a logical one to me, we need to differentiate between lakes and rivers, canals, etc. Yes, probably logical if we started from scratch but today it exactly duplicates natural=water which is very, very widely used - 9421 times according to the Statistics link http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:natural, though I suspect that is out of date. There is also natural=coastline, so there is another logic too. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
80n wrote: On Jan 11, 2008 8:18 AM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: martin dodge wrote: Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/ http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/ VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 That's rather nice! Mrs F points out, however, that the photo in slide 32 (22 Pine Street, Swindon) is almost certainly not in Swindon, and indeed there is no Pine Street in Swindon. So I'd be very wary of taking the slide's suggestion to route ambulances using OS data. Much more reliable to use OSM. ;) And on slide 42, Wellington is a place in Somerset, not Northumberland. 42, wasn't that the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
Martijn Verwijmeren wrote: On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:11:03 +0100 Lukasz Stelmach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point is that as far as the administration and adminstrative boundaries are conserned, they do coincide. No, they don't. Reading the wikipedia stuff you linked: Kansas City is the largest city in the state of Missouri. It encompasses 318 square miles in parts of Jackson, Clay, Cass, and Platte counties. It is fairly common for larger cities and even small towns in the US to lie in more than one county. Do those cities have their own administration that cooperates with all the counties? -- Było mi bardzo miło. Czwarta pospolita klęska, [...] Łukasz Już nie katolicka lecz złodziejska. (c)PP -- Rozdajemy nagrody! Sprawdz http://link.interia.pl/f1cbf begin:vcard fn;quoted-printable:=C5=81ukasz Stelmach n;quoted-printable:Stelmach;=C5=81ukasz email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to photo fold-out maps
On Jan 11, 2008 7:33 AM, Lars Aronsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an 1909 out-of-copyright book from the library. It has a fold-out map that is bound with the book, so I can't take it out. How do I hold the map flat to get a good photo? Another thing you might want to try is getting further away and using a longer lens. 50mm is quite short and the barrel distortion around the edge is noticeable - try a longer lens (300mm) and take pictures of smaller areas if necessary. Is there a photocopier in the library that you can use? Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11 Jan 2008, at 09:22, Nick Black wrote: We should catalogue the errors and send them back into the OS so they can do better next time. We can time how long it would take them to fix it. On Jan 11, 2008 8:47 AM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 11, 2008 8:18 AM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: martin dodge wrote: Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/ VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 That's rather nice! Mrs F points out, however, that the photo in slide 32 (22 Pine Street, Swindon) is almost certainly not in Swindon, and indeed there is no Pine Street in Swindon. So I'd be very wary of taking the slide's suggestion to route ambulances using OS data. Much more reliable to use OSM. ;) And on slide 42, Wellington is a place in Somerset, not Northumberland. 80n cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - lake
On Friday 11 January 2008 08:33:17 Michael Collinson wrote: Yes, probably logical if we started from scratch but today it exactly duplicates natural=water which is very, very widely used - 9421 times according to the Statistics link http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:natural, though I suspect that is out of date. It's not out of date, but it's only the statistics for germany. The data itself is from the 9.01.2008. Joerg ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Kosmos v1.3 - shaded relief
Hi Igor, On 10 Jan 2008, at 22:46, Igor Brejc wrote: Hello everybody, Kosmos rendering engine has a new version (1.3). The main new feature is relief shading tool in Kosmos.Gui, which can automatically download and process SRTM3 data for a given map area. If you're interested, visit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/ Kosmos. I've tried latest Kosmos and it works fine, though a bit slow. Are you planning to release source? I'm interested to try your shaded relief algorithm. Also, how do you fill voids ? Cheers Artem Good night, Igor Brejc ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] where we are, where we're going
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:00:27 + From: Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] The OSM licence: where we are, where we're and are, where we're going To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp=Yes; format=flowed (follow-ups to legal-talk, please) Peter Miller wrote: There are clearly uncertainties and complications with the current licence, however it does allow for the license to be upgraded without going back to original contributors for permission. In OSM's case that's unlikely to be true. Copyright in OSM contributions is owned by the original contributors, not by OSMF. As the CC-BY-SA 2.0 summary says, A new version of this license is available. You should use it for new works, and you may want to relicense existing works under it. No works are automatically put under the new license, however. Since no works are automatically put under the new licence, every contributor would have to choose to move to (say) CC-Data-BY-SA just as they would any other licence. Not true. The licence upgrade clause in CC-BY-SA 2.0 states in clause b: You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, *a later version of this License* with the same License Elements as this License(my emphasis). This allows the OSMF (on anyone else) to distribute OSM data using CC-BY-SA 3.0, 4.0 or whatever I am really concerned that this whole drama is being built on false foundations. As such I feel confident that CC could come up with a derivative of CC-BY-SA 3.0 that covers our needs and plug the gaps (and those of other gedata/DB type datasets generally); after all, if the ODL can do it then why can't CC do it The following background is absolutely crucial. It's in the OpenGeoData post but I'll take the chance to restate it. I'd encourage you, Longbow4u and others to reflect on it. * The Open Data Commons Database Licence is a share-alike licence with attribution elements. It is, as you say, in the spirit of CC-BY-SA. * Its authors are working with Creative Commons. * Creative Commons has a strong policy that facts are free[1]. They have therefore now introduced a licence for factual information, but this is essentially public domain (CC0/PDDL) with a voluntary request to share info. We are _not_ recommending that OSM adopts that licence. The ODC Database Licence is entirely separate. So to specifically answer your point about if the ODL can do it then why can't CC do it: * CC doesn't believe factual information should be subject to restrictions, so _won't_ do it. * But if CC were to do it (if, for example, they were lobbied to do so), their existing collaboration with ODC makes it very likely that they would actually adopt the Open Data Commons Database Licence. In other words, this option is significantly _more_ copyleft than CC themselves propose. I am not really convinced by your argument on copyright/DB rights. A map is not a factual in the same way that a gazetteer would be or a telephone directory. Other mapping companies using copyright combined with contract. You say that we don't have a contract but the CC-BY-SA 3.0 licence says: TO THE EXTENT THIS LICENSE MAY BE CONSIDERED TO BE A *CONTRACT*, THE LICENSOR GRANTS YOU THE RIGHTS CONTAINED HERE *IN CONSIDERATION OF YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH TERMS AND CONDITIONS* (my emphasis). So we OSMF can distribute under CC-BY-SA 3.0 or above, CC-BY-SA 3.0 (and above) is a contract (to the extent that it can be in law), and this is the very similar to the legal arrangements protecting Navteq's $8billion asset base. If we stick with CC-BY-SA then we don't have to ask permission of our contributors and the risk of any split removed. Btw, where should this debate be happening? Personally I suggest the legal nerdy details are discussed on legal-talk but any discussion about principles are discussed on 'talk' It's a good point, but in practice legal-talk will work best because it's very difficult to separate the two, and because discussions will drift from one to the other. We also don't want to overwhelm the rest of the project with it! Fine. Can I suggest that you respond to discussions that leak across onto talk and encourage them back to legal-talk or we will end up having two discussions in parallel. Keep up the good work! Peter cheers Richard [1] From their database FAQ: As you know, Creative Commons and Science Commons work to promote freely available content and information. Our preference is that people do not overstate their copyright or other legal rights. Consequently, we adopt the position that 'facts are free' and people should be educated so that they are aware of this.
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
Nick Black skrev: We should catalogue the errors and send them back into the OS so they can do better next time. Just send them a dump of the DB, and then look for a CC-by-SA OSM copyright notice on the OS Mastermap, sometime within the next 6 month. Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] where we are, where we're going
I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. Quoting Peter Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Not true. The licence upgrade clause in CC-BY-SA 2.0 states in clause b: You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, *a later version of this License* with the same License Elements as this License(my emphasis). This allows the OSMF (on anyone else) to distribute OSM data using CC-BY-SA 3.0, 4.0 or whatever I am really concerned that this whole drama is being built on false foundations. The important part is that this applies only to a Derivative Work. You cannot simply relicence the original work, in this case OSM, you have to create a derivative and you may then relicence that. Also this only allows derivatives to be relicenced under the same CC licence, not another licence. Now, that said, I would argue that anyone uploading new ways to OSM is creating a derivative work by changing OSM and this could be licenced under a later CC licence. This derivative could be relicenced CC 3.0. So OSM could upgrade to a new BY-SA by arranging for this to happen. CC BY-SA 3.0 has the ability for derivatives of work that it covers to be relicenced under a different licence that CC declare compatible. It would be great if a data licence were to be declared compatible as this would make licence migration for OSM much easier, but it is unlikely that CC would do this given their stance on data that Richard has mentioned. I am not really convinced by your argument on copyright/DB rights. A map is not a factual in the same way that a gazetteer would be or a telephone directory. Other mapping companies using copyright combined with contract. In order to do this the materials to be licenced must be copyrightable. You say that we don't have a contract but the CC-BY-SA 3.0 licence says: TO THE EXTENT THIS LICENSE MAY BE CONSIDERED TO BE A *CONTRACT*, THE LICENSOR GRANTS YOU THE RIGHTS CONTAINED HERE *IN CONSIDERATION OF YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF SUCH TERMS AND CONDITIONS* That's very interesting, I hadn't thought about that part of the licence before. There may be two problems in using it for OSM though. Firstly the rights and requirements that are granted are those regulated by copyright, not database right or any other rights. If the licence was applied to a trademark or patent (non-copyright legal items) or a public list of mere facts (something with no possible restrictions), would this contract assertion have any legal force? Secondly, in the US, there are issues to whether something is a licence or a contract and I'm not sure that the consideration of accepting the terms would be sufficient. This clause looks like a shrinkwrap licence. (my emphasis). So we OSMF can distribute under CC-BY-SA 3.0 or above, CC-BY-SA 3.0 (and above) is a contract (to the extent that it can be in law), and this is the very similar to the legal arrangements protecting Navteq's $8billion asset base. If we stick with CC-BY-SA then we don't have to ask permission of our contributors and the risk of any split removed. I doubt that BY-SA could be used to cover data in the US. I am curious about how Navteq work, though. This sounds worth investigating. Here's a sample Navteq licence (with lots of redacted clauses...): http://contracts.onecle.com/navteq/harman.lic.shtml - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] administrative boundaries and is_in
Lukasz Stelmach wrote: Martijn Verwijmeren wrote: It is fairly common for larger cities and even small towns in the US to lie in more than one county. Do those cities have their own administration that cooperates with all the counties? The town of Bothell in Washington straddles the border between King and Snohomish counties. The town of Bothell has their own police force which can and does patrol the entire town, but the King County Sheriff can only patrol within Bothell the portion that is inside the boundary of King county. Etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11/01/2008 00:55, Jon Burgess wrote: On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 00:09 +, martin dodge wrote: Hi, Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 The map in his screenshot must be from quite some time ago. The same area of central London now has considerably more data I think that misses the point. There are still many, many other areas where there is still just as little data, but that's not the point either. The key thing is 'how do you know?'. If you look at the current coverage of that London area, it probably looks quite convincing now, whereas in her slide it was obviously incomplete, yet I bet it isn't (in fact, I know it isn't - there are numerous missing streets in the densely mapped central London). How would I know this? How do I know whether I can trust this map or not? (*) This was and remains one of my key concerns about OSM as a project. I've said before and I'll say again: we need a way of asserting this area is complete (for one or more definitions of completeness). Incidentally, this is exacerbated by the lazy rendering rule for Mapnik - I was puzzled when someone said to me the other day why is this housing estate not connected to the rest of the road network?. It was; but adjacent Mapnik tiles were inconsistent (both laterally and by zoom level - and this wasn't a recently mapped area). You may not think this matters, but I think this is a public face and it causes further confusion and mistrust. David (* And how would I know how to fill in the gaps if I was there without revisiting every already mapped street?). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11 Jan 2008, at 11:21, David Earl wrote: On 11/01/2008 00:55, Jon Burgess wrote: On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 00:09 +, martin dodge wrote: Hi, Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/ VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 The map in his screenshot must be from quite some time ago. The same area of central London now has considerably more data I think that misses the point. There are still many, many other areas where there is still just as little data, but that's not the point either. The key thing is 'how do you know?'. If you look at the current coverage of that London area, it probably looks quite convincing now, whereas in her slide it was obviously incomplete, yet I bet it isn't (in fact, I know it isn't - there are numerous missing streets in the densely mapped central London). How would I know this? How do I know whether I can trust this map or not? (*) This was and remains one of my key concerns about OSM as a project. I've said before and I'll say again: we need a way of asserting this area is complete (for one or more definitions of completeness). I see your concerns. Having some kind of completeness test and be able to say : this area is 'complete' would be a strong point. On the other hand, is Wikipedia complete? I don't think so. Nothing is compete:) Incidentally, this is exacerbated by the lazy rendering rule for Mapnik What do you mean by 'lazy' rule? AFAIK, all available hardware is working hard day an night :) - I was puzzled when someone said to me the other day why is this housing estate not connected to the rest of the road network?. It was; but adjacent Mapnik tiles were inconsistent (both laterally and by zoom level - and this wasn't a recently mapped area). You may not think this matters, but I think this is a public face and it causes further confusion and mistrust. We can certainly improve here. Suggestions ? Artem David (* And how would I know how to fill in the gaps if I was there without revisiting every already mapped street?). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
In-Reply-To: !!AAAuAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 2008-01-11 12:49, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: I've been surprised just how much extra data can be added just by taking a little time over each street and I've found a few features that really should have been on the map already, despite being less than half a mile from my home. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the verification task is easy or quick, but it is necessary. Is OSM that far that we need verification and quality ensurance? We are still far from completeness, which might be a primary goal. I checked two of the major federal states in Germany by now, comparing the data with other street lists (maps, addresses etc.) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/North_Rhine-Westphalia http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg As long as we got less than 50 % of the most important street names (and Germany is about 10 %) I do not mind yet that much about verification. Don't get me wrong: verification is important. But I feel that precision, vandalism (version management) or licensing are equal and secondary goals. OSM may have a major strength just as a good wiki when it offers a reasonable base, while it may be much more up to date than man other sources. Is there any comparison about the amount of data within current commercial systems, compared to OSM? - Martin -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger?did=10 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11/01/2008, tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trust the identical free map made by a bunch of geeks with cheap GPS and where the reliability, data quality isn't clear, or by us, where we document and guarantee the quality. Who would you go for if you had a business? Openstreetmap brings new kind of problems. What if you put a slippy map on your page and take the tiles from OSM's servers. Then you risk the possibility that someone edits that part of the map to add some unwanted content to your page. -- Lauri Hahne ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
David Earl wrote: Sent: 11 January 2008 11:22 AM To: Jon Burgess Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk On 11/01/2008 00:55, Jon Burgess wrote: On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 00:09 +, martin dodge wrote: Hi, Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 The map in his screenshot must be from quite some time ago. The same area of central London now has considerably more data I think that misses the point. There are still many, many other areas where there is still just as little data, but that's not the point either. The key thing is 'how do you know?'. If you look at the current coverage of that London area, it probably looks quite convincing now, whereas in her slide it was obviously incomplete, yet I bet it isn't (in fact, I know it isn't - there are numerous missing streets in the densely mapped central London). How would I know this? How do I know whether I can trust this map or not? (*) This was and remains one of my key concerns about OSM as a project. I've said before and I'll say again: we need a way of asserting this area is complete (for one or more definitions of completeness). I totally agree with your points David and I've had them voiced directly to me by people who have tried the default map render for the first time (incidentally the name finder came in for some flak due to its data not matching the map content - we need to be careful there too). However I'm less concerned about validity provided that we don't try to oversell our mapping as complete before its been validated. The only way that we are going to individually or collectively state the completeness of a specific area is to carry out a verification process. It doesn't have to be done by third parties or even different contributors but it does need to be done by someone. I have started to do it for Sutton Coldfield and it can only be achieved on foot. I've been surprised just how much extra data can be added just by taking a little time over each street and I've found a few features that really should have been on the map already, despite being less than half a mile from my home. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the verification task is easy or quick, but it is necessary. We need a simple tag to display verification, perhaps the username and a date, say verification=blackadder_20080111 or similar. That doesn't stop someone falsifying validation but then I don't really think falsification is in the OSM mindset to begin with and so probably not something to be really concerned about for the majority of the data. User feedback would in my expectation continue to spot problem areas if they crop up. Incidentally, this is exacerbated by the lazy rendering rule for Mapnik - I was puzzled when someone said to me the other day why is this housing estate not connected to the rest of the road network?. It was; but adjacent Mapnik tiles were inconsistent (both laterally and by zoom level - and this wasn't a recently mapped area). You may not think this matters, but I think this is a public face and it causes further confusion and mistrust. David (* And how would I know how to fill in the gaps if I was there without revisiting every already mapped street?). Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code
I've edited the SOC page a bit: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Google_Summer_of_Code A starting point is to establish which projects are proposed and who will volunteer to mentor them. It would be great now to get some of the routing guys, some of the server guys, some of the JOSM guys, some of the Potlatch guys etc etc, to take a look through the wiki page and to put themselves forward as mentors for the projects. Cheers, On Jan 11, 2008 10:35 AM, Nick Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, we really need to get our acts together this year. I'm happy to co-ordinate things and chase application etc. We need mentors on-board though. On Jan 11, 2008 10:21 AM, Tom Chance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I see on this page that the OSM community needs to get together the Summer of Code ideas pretty quick: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Google_Summer_of_Code Is anyone working on this? I have an idea that I've added (accessibility analysis tools) but don't want to put too much more effort in unless it looks like OSM will meet the deadline. Kind regards, Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11/01/2008 11:48, Artem Pavlenko wrote: Incidentally, this is exacerbated by the lazy rendering rule for Mapnik What do you mean by 'lazy' rule? AFAIK, all available hardware is working hard day an night :) I mean the way in which a tile isn't rendered until (after) it is looked at rather than proactively when an area changes. - I was puzzled when someone said to me the other day why is this housing estate not connected to the rest of the road network?. It was; but adjacent Mapnik tiles were inconsistent (both laterally and by zoom level - and this wasn't a recently mapped area). You may not think this matters, but I think this is a public face and it causes further confusion and mistrust. We can certainly improve here. Suggestions ? I would try three things: (a) Mapnik works on planet, yes? So perhaps use the planet diffs to determine areas which have changed and proactively mark all such areas dirty. (b) for all dirty areas, render at all zoom levels (perhaps down to zoom 12, like osmarender) and do the 8 immediately neighbouring tiles of dirty tiles as well for say zoom 13 or 14 and higher. (Many tiles, neighbouring tiles will be dirty anyway, so this amounts to adding one tile around each group of two-dimensionally contiguous dirty tiles. (c) install updated tiles at one go so far as possible. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On Jan 11, 2008 7:48 AM, Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What slide 46 is trying to convey is: we know about these amateurs over there, but our stuff is better. I think the main point of that slide is: these amateurs *will* are as good as us, but you can trust us more! Trust the identical free map made by a bunch of geeks with cheap GPS and where the reliability, data quality isn't clear, or by us, where we document and guarantee the quality. Who would you go for if you had a business? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] srtm2shp - Shapefiles from SRTM contours - new version
Hi Nick, I'm trying to generate some contours with srtm2shp but having problems feeding right args , any examples? Also, would you like to combine efforts to fix voids ? cheers Artem On 28 Dec 2007, at 15:18, Nick Whitelegg wrote: Hello everyone, There is now a new version of the srtm2shp utility which generates shapefiles of SRTM contours in the OSM SVN repository (under utils/ srtm2shp). It only has one dependency - shapelib. This version should work anywhere across the world, in contrast to earlier versions which were a bit of a mess and only worked in the UK. So if you're interested in creating a Freemap-like site for your own country, this is a good place to start. Main todo is dealing with SRTM voids in mountainous areas. Nick Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! for Good ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11/01/2008 12:49, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: (incidentally the name finder came in for some flak due to its data not matching the map content - we need to be careful there too). Indeed, it is embarrassingly out of date now, but I just don't have the necessary hardware to process the size of the file regularly any more. This will work on diffs in due course, but it is going to need a few days more hacking to get this working. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
Artem Pavlenko wrote: Marking 'dirty' areas by processing planet diff sounds reasonable but we only generate diffs weekly, afaik. My understanding is that generating planet and planet diffs takes very long time at the moment which brings us back to the eternal quest of improving main DB. I'm not even suggesting to use postgresql :D There are hourly diffs available in: http://planet.openstreetmap.org/hourly/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11 Jan 2008, at 13:09, David Earl wrote: On 11/01/2008 13:00, Artem Pavlenko wrote: (a) Mapnik works on planet, yes? No, it works on postgis db which is populated with osm2pgsql from planet. Yes, I know that. I meant that it is coming from planet, not directly derived from the main database like osmarender. So perhaps use the planet diffs to determine areas which have changed and proactively mark all such areas dirty. The problem is how to merge planet diff into postgis , I think Jonb has done some work/research in this area. Are there existing tools (osmosis?) that given a planet diff would return 'dirty' areas? Everything listed in a planet diff is by definition dirty, yes. I don't think you;d need to change the rendering process at all - keep on converting the full planet to database; just have a new means for marking dirty areas - derived from the lat/lons of all nodes in the planet diff corresponding to the current planet, plus the lat/lons of all nodes of all ways listed in the diff. Marking 'dirty' areas by processing planet diff sounds reasonable but we only generate diffs weekly, afaik. My understanding is that generating planet and planet diffs takes very long time at the moment which brings us back to the eternal quest of improving main DB. I'm not even suggesting to use postgresql :D David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
oh and while we're pointing out mistakes, roads around the US embassy have been closed for going on 10 years (slide 19). On 11 Jan 2008, at 16:51, Stephen Coast wrote: On 11 Jan 2008, at 04:39, J.D. Schmidt wrote: Jon Burgess skrev: On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 00:09 +, martin dodge wrote: Hi, Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 The map in his screenshot must be from quite some time ago. The same area of central London now has considerably more data http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.5183lon=-0.1387zoom=14layers=0BFT Jon Hey, what do you expect from someone who is used to a 6 month timeframe before new features in the landscape has been mapped, processed and included in the mastermap ? Of course she included an old rendering, most probably from the London Map Party. Interestingly no - it's missing large sections that were done that weekend. Specifically 80n's bit between Edgware Road and Baker Streetish as I remember. have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] osm2pgsql.exe
Hello windows users, osm2pgsql.exe has arrived : http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/ osm2pgsql_latest.exe.zip Enjoy! Artem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Osmosis UTF-8 problem (again)
Looks like there's an issue with UTF-8 characters in the username. Line 42117 of daily-20080109-20080110.osc is an example (node 32268361). Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On 11 Jan 2008, at 13:35, Lambertus wrote: Artem Pavlenko wrote: Marking 'dirty' areas by processing planet diff sounds reasonable but we only generate diffs weekly, afaik. My understanding is that generating planet and planet diffs takes very long time at the moment which brings us back to the eternal quest of improving main DB. I'm not even suggesting to use postgresql :D There are hourly diffs available in: http:// planet.openstreetmap.org/hourly/ thanks, A ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk
On Jan 11, 2008 11:58 AM, Chris Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The presentation by the CEO of the OS shows that she takes OSM *very* seriously, perhaps even seriously enough to show our work in a bad light. If I was the CEO of a large mapping company and I took OSM seriously I would either by trying to implement OSM myself (GetMapping), trying to integrate the concepts of OSM into my own db (AND), supporting OSM (Multimap, AND). If I took it *very* seriously, I would be saying nothing at all (Google, Navteq, Teleatlast) whilst deploying my engineers to study the source code. The whole presentation is a look - I get web 2.0 too. When I saw VL present the same we are the OS presentation in 2006, it was all ambulance routing and ESRI Arc GIS. The inclusion a few OSM slides along with Google Earth and Facebook screenshots, is VL tyring to show that she's ontop of things and ready for the next knighthood/civil service promotion. Its the same as the Queen releasing her Christmas speech on YouTube. I don't think HRH lies awake at night worrying about the effect YouTube is having on the BBC. cheers, Chris - Original Message From: martin dodge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, 11 January, 2008 12:09:59 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] Why place matters, slides from Vanessa Lawrence talk Hi, Just found an interesting set of slides of a talk by Vanessa Lawrence, OS http://www.w3.org/2007/06/eGov-dc/presentations/VL_why_place_matters.pdf with some prominent mentions for OSM. I particularly liked slide 46 cheers martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk __ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POIs from OSM data
Hi, update: http://christeck.de/POIs/ Cheers, ce ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis UTF-8 problem (again)
On 11/01/2008, Brett Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: Looks like there's an issue with UTF-8 characters in the username. Line 42117 of daily-20080109-20080110.osc is an example (node 32268361). Have a nice day, Any idea what the user name should be? I find it hard to believe that user=jos逴巜¯(R)退 (from the API) is correct. The name doesn't make any more sense in a mysql command line, so I don't think it's an osmosis problem. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis UTF-8 problem (again)
Hi, Any idea what the user name should be? I find it hard to believe that user=jos??¯® (from the API) is correct. Well on 05 December I did have a problem with the planet diff, quoting from old E-Mail: latest daily planet diff has an UTF-8 problem on line 58267: node id=25254929 timestamp=2007-12-04T17:26:52Z user=josé ... Seems like the user names don't get encoded properly. Username looks conspicuously similar ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis UTF-8 problem (again)
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Any idea what the user name should be? I find it hard to believe that user=jos??¯® (from the API) is correct. Well on 05 December I did have a problem with the planet diff, quoting from old E-Mail: latest daily planet diff has an UTF-8 problem on line 58267: node id=25254929 timestamp=2007-12-04T17:26:52Z user=josé ... Seems like the user names don't get encoded properly. Username looks conspicuously similar ;) I remember that email, I was hoping the problem would magically disappear ;-) Checking the history of that node from the API again gives user=jos逴巊 »H´ (hopefully this is coming through okay, it includes a bunch of Chinese-like characters). I'll check it out in more detail soon. It does look like it should be user=josé but given that the API is also returning interesting data it sounds like there's a deeper problem somewhere. Either way, osmosis shouldn't be emitting invalid UTF-8, but fixing it may not be easy. It might have something to do with characters that can't be represented with 16-bit characters. If it does turn out to be a problem elsewhere I can try to put a hack in place to at least emit valid UTF-8, but it will require me doing some more reading of unicode standards which I'm not excited about :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Tileserver op Nederkaartblog
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sander Hoentjen schreef: | Ik was van plan ook zondag te komen, met nog iemand van JR Online, nu | komt het ons beide helaas erg slecht uit. | De keer dat ik Met Raoul van JR Online in Amsterdam ben geweest is er | eigenlijk afgesproken dat JR Online een SAN Server in zou richten, met | het idee dat we de systeemeisen hiermee makkelijker zouden kunnen | vaststellen. | Ik denk dat het tijd is voor een volgende stap, JR Online is wel bereid | een dedicated server te sponsoren, bijvoorbeeld om de tiles te serveren, | met daarnaast een andere render server. Omdat we er zondag helaas niet | bij kunnen zijn mag ik jullie uitnodigen op ons kantoor in Enschede, | misschien leuk om dit te combineren met een mappingparty binnenkort? Ik vond JR Online wel al bekend voorkomen... Nu weet ik waarvan, het logo dat ik tegen kom als ik naar de sporthal fiets... :) Maar ik ben zeker voor een mappingparty in Enschede! Ik wil dan wel kijken of er een goed nog te mappen iets is (sowieso over de grens wel..) en die kant van de 'organisatie' op me nemen. | | Sander | | | On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 10:54 +0100, Martijn Pannevis wrote: | Nu we het toch over de tileserver hebben: Er waren plannen om daar | zondag, rond de OSM borrel (welke borrel begint er al om 2 uur btw? :)), | daarover te meeten. | Zijn die plannen er nog steeds? Zoja, ervoor of erna? | Qua borrel zou ik er wel voor zijn om het er VOOR te doen, en om gelijk | een balletje op te gooien: 12 uur ergens in die buurt (of dezelfde | kroeg, al weet ik niet hoe 'vergadervriendelijk' die is)? | Ik zou er graag bij zijn. | Groeten, | Martjn Pannevis. | | Martijn van Exel wrote: | Ha, | | FYI, er staat vandaag een stukje over OSM-data en de NL Tileserver op | de mappingblog Nederkaart[1]. | Nederkaart is een blog van Remco Kouwenhoven, voormalig raadslid in | Groningen en hij heeft ook een hoge ambtelijke functie gehad bij de | gemeente Apeldoorn. Als we ons in 2008 meer op het gebruik van OSM | binnen de overheid willen gaan richten, kan hij misschien ook wel | deuren openen. Henk, ken jij hem misschien? | | Martijn | | [1] http://www.nederkaart.nl/openstreetmap/open-streetmap-nl-tile-server.html | | | ___ | Talk-nl mailing list | Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org | http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl | | | ___ | Talk-nl mailing list | Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org | http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl | | | ___ | Talk-nl mailing list | Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org | http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHhyNHtK8Zi+dRolURAmbVAJ9iX99B1VNuN7JBx52IRPgj/D7I0gCcD3W8 JryMidpwWWgAduk7vZ0Na8Y= =nwhj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Tileserver op Nederkaartblog
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 09:05 +0100, Foppe Benedictus wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sander Hoentjen schreef: | Ik was van plan ook zondag te komen, met nog iemand van JR Online, nu | komt het ons beide helaas erg slecht uit. | De keer dat ik Met Raoul van JR Online in Amsterdam ben geweest is er | eigenlijk afgesproken dat JR Online een SAN Server in zou richten, met | het idee dat we de systeemeisen hiermee makkelijker zouden kunnen | vaststellen. | Ik denk dat het tijd is voor een volgende stap, JR Online is wel bereid | een dedicated server te sponsoren, bijvoorbeeld om de tiles te serveren, | met daarnaast een andere render server. Omdat we er zondag helaas niet | bij kunnen zijn mag ik jullie uitnodigen op ons kantoor in Enschede, | misschien leuk om dit te combineren met een mappingparty binnenkort? Ik vond JR Online wel al bekend voorkomen... Nu weet ik waarvan, het logo dat ik tegen kom als ik naar de sporthal fiets... :) Maar ik ben zeker voor een mappingparty in Enschede! Ik wil dan wel kijken of er een goed nog te mappen iets is (sowieso over de grens wel..) en die kant van de 'organisatie' op me nemen. Ja, het logo is redelijk zichtbaar :) Over de grens, en ook juist de grens zelf kan wel wat liefde gebruiken, er zijn veel wegen die niet aansluiten. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] tileserver
Er is iets mis gegaan met de daily updates op hypercube, het zal over een dag of twee weer goed zijn als het goed is Mvg, 2008/1/11 Peter Peterse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hallo Martijn, ik was de tileserver aan het bewonderen. Helemaal in mijn nopjes dat alles weer bij gewerkt was. Kom ik in eens op level 14 lege tiles tegen. http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/?lat=51.31867157031394lon=5.3590296921338405zoom=14 http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/?lat=51.9532128602lon=4.855568440249051zoom=14 Ook level 15 en 16 zijn bij de laatste link leeg. Succes Peter ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] GeoNovum metadatastandaarden en geo-informatie
Beste Talk'ers, http://www.livre.nl/content/view/1576/1/ -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange! ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-de] Erste Test-Daten von OpenGeoDB
Gernot Hillier wrote: Hat denn jemand besondere Wünsche, welches Bundesland besonders interessant wäre? aus persönlichem Interesse würde ich NRW vorschlagen. Zmal es ja acuh bevölkerungstechnisch am ergiebigsten ist. Und ich hätte natürlich gerne Bayern. Bzw. Niederbayern. Bzw. Landshut. :) Hallo Gernot, inzwischen habe ich zwar etwas Übung, aber die Arbeit ist zeitintensiv. Wenn du mir entsprechende Daten direkt zur Verfügung stellen kannst, dann mache ich das für dich gerne für Landshut / Niederbayern / Bayern Was ich vor allem brauche: Strassenname, Koordinaten (Mittelwert oder Referenzkoordinate), evtl. highway-typ und way-ids Ich selbst fasse noch mehrere Wege zu einem einzigen Eintrag zusammen und packe dazu alle way-ids und node-ids zusammen. Schönen Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Duplicated Nodes und wie man sie los wird
Verhindert die API nicht, dass auf einer Strasse 2 Nodes am selben Ort sind? Dass man während dem einfügen nicht prüfen kann ob 2 Nodes am selben Ort sind glaub ich. Aber dass man das bei einer Strasse tut glaub ich eher. Zudem müsst dann ja jemand diese Strasse so hochgeladen haben (ok das geht vielleicht mit JOSM ohne Plugin - Plugin erzwingen :) Mal ne ganz dumme Frage dazu: Wie ist 'am selben Ort' definiert? Für mich sind x- und y-Koordinate double-Werte und da verbietet sich der Gleichheitsoperator ja eigentlich. Demnach müsste man die zulässige Nähe über die reale Welt definieren, also in dem Sinne, dass zwei Nodes, die weniger als 10cm (Beispiel) entfernt sind, als 'am selben Ort' gelten. Wie macht das der Validator? Soweit ich das gesehen hab, werden die Werte etwas zurecht gestuzt (auf Sekunden oder so). Ausserdem, wenn ein node kopiert wird, wäre auch der Gleichheitsoperator bei einem Double zulässig. Grüsse Raphael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bushaltestellen werden verchoben
Mir ist aufgefallen, dass Bushaltestellen seltsamerweise 10-20 Pixel (bei max. zoom) nach links verschoben werden. Ist das normal? Bei den gerenderten Karten oder ist auch der Node verschoben, wenn du ihn dir wieder im Editor ansiehst? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bushaltestellen werden verchoben
Patzi schrieb: Mir ist aufgefallen, dass Bushaltestellen seltsamerweise 10-20 Pixel (bei max. zoom) nach links verschoben werden. Ist das normal? Bei den gerenderten Karten oder ist auch der Node verschoben, wenn du ihn dir wieder im Editor ansiehst? Ich denke, es ist das Icon selbst, das wohl nicht ganz mittig ist. Oder der Offset (x-negativ=nach links, y-negatib=nach oben) des Icons wird beim Plazieren zu groß berechnet. Ich sehe das Problem aber auch zusätzlich mit zu hohem Offset nach oben: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.06622lon=11.66378zoom=17layers=0BFT Gruß, Toni ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bushaltestellen werden verchoben
Patzi schrieb: Mir ist aufgefallen, dass Bushaltestellen seltsamerweise 10-20 Pixel (bei max. zoom) nach links verschoben werden. Ist das normal? Bei den gerenderten Karten oder ist auch der Node verschoben, wenn du ihn dir wieder im Editor ansiehst? Gute Frage... Ich glaube, nur bei den gerenderten Karten. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] landuse =farm fXr ganze Felder/Wiesen, Unsinn?
viel spannender als die info ob wood oder forrest fänd ich übrigens eine genauere Spezifizierungsmöglichkeit z.B. nach Laub, Nadel oder Mischwäldern. Das kann man wenigstens auch Vorort optisch erfassen und später auch zur Orientierung nutzen. Gibts da schon ein Proposal zu? Gute idee :-) wood/forest ist aber auch nicht unwichtig ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bushaltestellen werden verchoben
Toni Erdmann schrieb: Patzi schrieb: Mir ist aufgefallen, dass Bushaltestellen seltsamerweise 10-20 Pixel (bei max. zoom) nach links verschoben werden. Ist das normal? Bei den gerenderten Karten oder ist auch der Node verschoben, wenn du ihn dir wieder im Editor ansiehst? Ich denke, es ist das Icon selbst, das wohl nicht ganz mittig ist. Oder der Offset (x-negativ=nach links, y-negatib=nach oben) des Icons wird beim Plazieren zu groß berechnet. Ich sehe das Problem aber auch zusätzlich mit zu hohem Offset nach oben: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.06622lon=11.66378zoom=17layers=0BFT Gruß, Toni Scheint das selbe Problem zu sein. Das sollten sich die ENtwickler am Besten mal ansehen, oder? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Duplicated Nodes und wie man sie los wird
Moin, Man koennte es tun, aber es ist nicht eingebaut. Ich halte es fuer sehr wahrscheinlich, dass ein dahingehender Patch akzeptiert werden wuerde. Man muesste vorher avtl. allerdings nachdenken, ob das wirklich fuer jede Art von Way eine sinnvolle Beschraenkung ist und nicht nur fuer Strassen. es gibt Fälle, in denen es zwei Nodes am selben Ort gibt, die aber theoretisch auf verschiedenen Ebenen (elevation) liegen. Hier um die Ecke gibt es Tiefgaragen. Ich habe dort vermieden, die Nodes genau übereinanderzulegen, weil es sonst im Editor schwierig zu handhaben ist. Will man ein Parkhaus aber wegetechnisch korrekt abbilden, braucht man Nodes, die übereinanderliegen. Nur so am Rande, ce ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Duplicated Nodes und wie man sie los wird
Ich habe dort vermieden, die Nodes genau übereinanderzulegen, weil es sonst im Editor schwierig zu handhaben ist. Will man ein Parkhaus aber wegetechnisch korrekt abbilden, braucht man Nodes, die übereinanderliegen. Davon ab, finde ich u-bahn-stationen viel interessanter :) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] FOSSGIS 2008 CFP
Hallo, Die FOSSGIS 2008 wird vom 1.-3. April 2008 an der Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg stattfinden. [...] Auf der FOSSGIS 2007 in Berlin hat Jochen einen interessanten Vortrag gehalten. http://www.fossgis.de/wiki/index.php/Abstracts07#Openstreetmap-Projekt Jochen und ich haben da schon mal ein bisschen mit den Veranstaltern Kontakt aufgenommen. Wir wollen auf jeden Fall einen Stand organisieren, und eventuell ist OSM inzwischen schon bedeutend genug, dass wir sogar mehr als einen Vortrag einreichen, uns ein bisschen thematisch in die Breite entwickeln... waere toll, wenn jeder, der eine Idee fuer einen OSM-Vortrag hat und jeder, der hinkommt und eventuell auch mal fuer ein paar Stunden den Stand betreuen kann, sich bei uns melden wuerde, dann koennen wir das ein bisschen koordinieren! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Duplicated Nodes und wie man sie los wird
Man koennte es tun, aber es ist nicht eingebaut. Ich halte es fuer sehr wahrscheinlich, dass ein dahingehender Patch akzeptiert werden wuerde. Man muesste vorher avtl. allerdings nachdenken, ob das wirklich fuer jede Art von Way eine sinnvolle Beschraenkung ist und nicht nur fuer Strassen. es gibt Fälle, in denen es zwei Nodes am selben Ort gibt, die aber theoretisch auf verschiedenen Ebenen (elevation) liegen. Hier um die Ecke gibt es Tiefgaragen. Ich habe dort vermieden, die Nodes genau übereinanderzulegen, weil es sonst im Editor schwierig zu handhaben ist. Will man ein Parkhaus aber wegetechnisch korrekt abbilden, braucht man Nodes, die übereinanderliegen. Nur so am Rande, Da geb ich dir recht, daran hatte ich nicht gedacht. Grüsse Raphael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] POIs aus OSM-Daten
Hi, Update: http://christeck.de/POIs/ Schönes (Mapping- :)wochenende, ce ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-cz] Generovanie czechia.osm
Ahojte, mam len taky malicky postreh: nejako sa vam pokazilo generovanie czechia.osm na http://kubajz.kbx.cz/junk/osm/ . Jozef This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-GB] Worcester
I may do (weather, carriage of bike on train and money permitting). I want to do more of Shrewsbury sometime, probably during March. Anyone up for that? Richard Fairhurst wrote: Hello all, I fancy going to map Worcester on Saturday 23rd Feb. Anyone else up for it? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Worcester http://www.openstreetmap.org/? lat=52.1895lon=-2.2237zoom=13layers=B0FT (lovely place, one of Britain's smaller cities, mainline trains from London and Birmingham, some cracking pubs, etc. etc.) cheers Richard ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb -- Cheers, Tom - www.bandnet.org ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Worcester
Hello all, I fancy going to map Worcester on Saturday 23rd Feb. Anyone else up for it? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Worcester http://www.openstreetmap.org/? lat=52.1895lon=-2.2237zoom=13layers=B0FT (lovely place, one of Britain's smaller cities, mainline trains from London and Birmingham, some cracking pubs, etc. etc.) cheers Richard ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Summer Wales Party / Isle of Wight Redux... Was: Re: Worcester
On 11 Jan 2008, at 22:50, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I would go on talk-de but I wouldn't understand anything :-( PS How will we get Scotland finished? a. During the German summer holidays, set up a booth at the Newcastle ferry terminal and issue a GPS to each of them pouring out of the ferry and heading North ;-) b. Hold SOTM '08 at Inverness. That's actually a serious issue (mapping during SOTM) but I think approximately 0 mapping was done in Manchester? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Summer Wales Party / Isle of Wight Redux... Was: Re: Worcester
Hi, PS How will we get Scotland finished? a. During the German summer holidays, set up a booth at the Newcastle ferry terminal and issue a GPS to each of them pouring out of the ferry and heading North ;-) b. Hold SOTM '08 at Inverness. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Summer Wales Party / Isle of Wight Redux... Was: Re: Worcester
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephen Coast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't we do it again this summer? We'll hire one or more cottages in central Wales, say, as a jumping off point. Main mapping weekend but people welcome to stay the week. So * Where: mid wales * When: er... summer some time * Length: week, with main weekend * Food: pubs, main meal, BBQs * mapping: jumping off point for bits of wales and environs If there's a positive show of hands, or +1's then I'll get everything organised and will go for sponsorship as appropriate. I'd rather not try to herd cats on the list in terms of dates, but ideas for locations appreciated. Have a +1 from me for that idea. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Summer Wales Party / Isle of Wight Redux... Was: Re: Worcester
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stephen Coast wrote: | On 11 Jan 2008, at 22:50, Frederik Ramm wrote: | | Hi, | | I would go on talk-de but I wouldn't understand anything :-( | | PS How will we get Scotland finished? | a. | | During the German summer holidays, set up a booth at the Newcastle | ferry terminal and issue a GPS to each of them pouring out of the | ferry and heading North ;-) | | b. | | Hold SOTM '08 at Inverness. | | That's actually a serious issue (mapping during SOTM) but I think | approximately 0 mapping was done in Manchester? If SOTM is going to be just a weekend event, then there is no time for mapping. Maybe you could do a mapping party in an area on Saturday / Sunday, then SOTM Mon-Wed, and some people could stay for the whole period, but if SOTM follows the model established in Manchester, I don't think mapping is practical. I would be interested in a North Wales mapping party as I have relatives ~ who I could stay with. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHiA59z+aYVHdncI0RAkSTAJ49F5LKEY1gppx1Dv5L6jVUKs6heACglR8W fWV94YERFUt4nOwhrtMmJug= =X997 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Summer Wales Party / Isle of Wight Redux... Was: Re: Worcester
Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: I would be interested in a North Wales mapping party as I have relatives ~ who I could stay with. For accommodation the riding centre where I used to work has some great facilities. Only thing is location could make things more difficult for those without cars. £15/night, I think is the cost now. http://www.clwydspecialridingcentre.org.uk/ -- Cheers, Tom - www.bandnet.org ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
