Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Hi, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> But this is exactly rhat, what I am asked i.e. by Wikipedia users. At >> present they draw their maps for every geographical article (states, >> regions, districts, towns, municipality, urban quarters) and the >> sub-chapters of these (water, public transport, railway etc etc) and >> special interests (cycling, on horseback etc) by hand. This is over >> and over again the same work only with a different assortment. It >> would be really helpful, if it was possible to extract automaticly >> these informations nearly live from OSM. > > it is already possible, you can get these things through the XAPI or > by selecting them locally from the complete data (or an excerpt). Yes but this is really not the focus of OpenStreetMap. Remember that our focus is mapping stuff that is visible on the ground. The kind of maps discussed here rely almost entirely on stuff that is not visible (administrative borders, mostly). These are not one of our strengths, and never will be - we can of course import them from somewhere but if they were freely available, so could Wikipedians drawing maps... Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Xynthia storm/ flooding in france kills over 50
Here is a new crisis: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/30558/ Area is around here : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.3328&lon=-1.3357&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF No disaster charter activation. No sources of photos yet. I am sorry for the people who died! mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
2010/2/28 Tirkon : > But this is exactly rhat, what I am asked i.e. by Wikipedia users. At > present they draw their maps for every geographical article (states, > regions, districts, towns, municipality, urban quarters) and the > sub-chapters of these (water, public transport, railway etc etc) and > special interests (cycling, on horseback etc) by hand. This is over > and over again the same work only with a different assortment. It > would be really helpful, if it was possible to extract automaticly > these informations nearly live from OSM. it is already possible, you can get these things through the XAPI or by selecting them locally from the complete data (or an excerpt). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Dave Stubbs wrote: >On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Randy wrote: >>Dave, >> >>Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, >>and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. >> > >Potlatch 2 currently runs on my netbook, and seeing as how I develop >it on my netbook it should continue to do so :-) My netbook is an >Atom 1.6GHz 1GB RAM BTW. > >The SWF size is about 550KB at the moment, most of which will be the >flex gui framework and associated bits and pieces, so will be present >in any flex based flash app. > >If you do a break down of where the code is at the moment: > - about 20 classes for tag editing (the "simple" user stuff) > - about 10 classes for vector editing > - about 20 classes for handling OSM objects, and talking to the API 0.6 > - about 25 classes for rendering data (halcyon) > >Simple mode basically takes out the vector editing stuff. > >You can obviously make something a lot lighter if you weren't using >flex. Well, startup bandwidth lighter at least. > >Dave > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Thanks, Dave. I'm sure others with more experience than I can make a better independent assessment, but it doesn't look particularly daunting to me, as far as penalizing the early user. Granted, if it's doable (and widely supported), a super simple JS2 editor might be lighter in startup. But, as someone else mentioned earlier, it's probably worth some sacrifice to keep the UI between simple and powerful as similar as possible. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
Roy Wallace wrote: >On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Gervase Markham >wrote: >> >>... I suggest that the way to get people involved is to >>have them see the map, and use the map for the things they would >>otherwise use Google Maps for, and then have the thought process >>"That's wrong. Hey - I could fix it!". > >Yes, or more accurately: "That's wrong. Hey - I could fix it - *and >then use it*!" Precisely my thought! -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contributing to PL2 (was: Re: Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back)
Randy wrote: >My personal thought: Maybe we need an announce list, which is nothing more >than a list for folks to announce various opportunities, or new (or old) >products periodically, with a general agreement (or moderation) that the >only allowed replies are requests for more information or their responses. > Oops, I meant to check the groups list before sending this. There is an announce list, as of last October. However, it hasn't had much activity. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Contributing to PL2 (was: Re: Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back)
Steve Bennett wrote: >On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:05 AM, Dave Stubbs >wrote: > >Sure, but I think you missed my point a bit. If I had already known >that help was wanted, and if I had already signed up to the dev list >(which I didn't realise existed until now), then I guess I would have >seen those posts. But the issue is how to attract new developers, >isn't it? > >Btw, the potlatch-dev list is extremely quiet. No posts for February so >far. >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/potlatch-dev/ > >Steve So, Steve, is your point a complaint or an offer to help (or both)? And if a complaint, do you have a suggestion for improvement? Do you want to see development opportunities advertised in talk more, or something else? In my opinion, complaints without constructive suggestions are the second most likely reason (with personal attacks being the first) for threads to degenerate into flame wars. And, I'm very sure that is not your intent. My personal thought: Maybe we need an announce list, which is nothing more than a list for folks to announce various opportunities, or new (or old) products periodically, with a general agreement (or moderation) that the only allowed replies are requests for more information or their responses. It could include announcements for mapping party (or not?), development opportunities, product releases or revisions, a new wiki page for ideas for a simple editor, etc. With a once a month repeat annoucement being allowed, so new folks wouldn't have to go to the archives to catch up. Keeping the chatter to a minimun would make it easier to quickly scan the list, rather than wading through a lot of stuff on talk. Where dialog is needed the topic could move to talk, or a dev list, or one-to-one. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on OSM design, and looking forward and back
Nick Whitelegg wrote:
>I ran a mapping party in Fareham, Hampshire, UK in which three newbies
>came, back at the start of November. These three newbies, who were
>reasonably adept at using computers but not "geeks", if you get what I
>mean, were able to successfully use JOSM - something harder than Potlatch,
>perhaps - to add street names to unnamed streets in Fareham. So I'm not
>sure that either editor is that hard to use given a proper
>demonstration.
>
>Nick
Nick,
The users that you mention as an example, have already made an initial
commitment to OSM by even being at a mapping party. The people I'm
thinking of are those who haven't had, nor are likely to have the
opportunity for that type of initial experience. In the US, propably 90%+
of the area (although granted not 90% of the mappable objects) are in
areas where there are no active user organizations, or possibly any
current active mappers. Potential newbies need to see something that will
tweak their interest, and that they can interact with from a cold start,
with no human assistance, probably based on a defect/omission that they
have seen in OSM or one of the commercial maps.
I'm not sure if anyone is thinking along the lines of allowing a user to
immediately make changes, without signing up for an account. There are
pros and cons to that. I'm neutral on the issue, as long as proper
precautions are taken. If the capability to make changes without an
account were provided, then I certainy agree that the edits should be
limited to only adding POIs and street names. Even changing names
shouldn't be allowed, since that opens the vandalism can of worms much
more. And, if the changes are anonimous (i.e., without an account), they
should include a unique "newbie" user tag, so that any time an experienced
user wants to take a look at the newbie changes to see if a vandal has
been at work, it will be easy to do. And, reversion of changes under that
tag, should require minimum coordination.
If an account is required, then I think providing something like a "dumbed
down" Potlatch would be more appropriate. I really do believe that a
simple clean interface to making changes at "the next level", whatever
that is, would be appropriate. Obviously the allowed features list is
debatable. I would like to see a little more than Roy wants, but
significantly less than full Potlatch. I'm sure there are many different
opinions, all with some level of validity. And, I think I agree with Roy
to some extent, in that it would be better to err on the lower capability
side than the higher to start with. If experience shows that the initial
level of capabability is not leading to significant mapping problems, and
the newbies think it is too restrictive, then adding a considered
increment in capability would be merited. That is one advantage of basing
the limited editor on a full fledged editor. It would be easier to shift
capability from one level to the other, in either direction.
I have to admit that I only took a cursory look at an early Potlatch 2
development, but will certainly give it another look. I typically use
JOSM. Probably because I just feel more confortable working off line, and
the variety of plug-ins attracts me. But, I do use Potlatch occasionally
for doing the quick simple things that are rarely much more than I think
appropriate for the "intermediate newbie". With some optional interactive
instructions ("you have placed that way node on or near another way,
should they be connected?"). I think Potlatch's templates could easily be
used in a restrictive manner that only allows a limited selectable subset
of attributes with no free text entry, except for names.
Yes, I agree with whoever suggested it (Liz?) that a wiki for allowed
newbie features and other design suggestions would be a great idea. There
have been some good ideas thrown out, and it's too hard to capture and
organize them in talk.
(Hmm. My talk messages continue to be way too long!)
--
Randy
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] we've got to be around 4 million now
So we have to be around four million change sets now. What's that you say? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/400 Oh, well played, sir! Excellent choice of editor. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Are Yahoo street maps legal? (as JOSM WMS layer via desktopwms)
On 28 February 2010 08:56, David Earl wrote: > On 27/02/2010 09:31, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > I was hoping that Yahoo has their own maps and that we could use them. > > Whatever the legality, I can't see the point in making a map which is > simply a copy of someone else's. Why go to the bother - you might as > well just use the original. > > That's the freedom tax. OSM members cannot create maps from another source that has restrictive licencing. It will be a derivative work, thus copyright infringement. That's why Richard Stallman created the GNU libraries from scratch. Even though Unix existed, he duplicated the functionality of everything without looking at the original source code that he could not be accused of copyright violation. Facts are free, but representations of facts are not. E.g. two companies can create maps about the world happily. However if one uses the other's as a base, then the second company is breaking the law. If you just want to use maps, then taking them from Yahoo/Google/Bing is fine. But if you want to create maps that you wish to distribute & build upon, then you need to create them yourself (or generate them from a source that is itself copyleft). Others - please correct any errors :) Tim ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Wiki - Croatian and Bosnian languages - mass-namespace editing notice
Today, User:Wynndale decided to do mass-rename of all pages in Croatian (Hr:) and Bosnian (Bs:) namespaces, moving them to so-called "Serbo-Croatian" (Sh:) namespace. He did that without even trying to contact interested parties (for Croatian pages, that would be http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr list). Also, the so called Serbo-Croatian language does not exist (see links below). ISO 639-1 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes ) defines separate languages - Croatian (HR), Serbian (SR), Bosnian (BS). As he had not replied to his user talk page I don't know yet if it was done out of ignorance, or malice. I've managed to revert/undo most (I think) of the damage he'd done, wasting half a day to do it. Template:Languages damage will take some time to get regenerated :-( The (unasked-for) changes can be seen at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Wynndale (just look for "Sh:" and "Serbo-croat" strings) I've also documented the case with more info at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Wynndale http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template_talk:Languages#Languages_and_politics -- Opinions above are GNU-copylefted. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Randy wrote: > Dave Stubbs wrote: > >>On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:29 AM, John Smith >>wrote: >>>On 26 February 2010 19:44, Dave Stubbs wrote: There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple editor needs to cope with some quite complex things - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto something less basic >>> >>>There are some downsides, bloated code base, which in turns makes >>>things harder for new coders to edit or fix small issues, and higher >>>memory and other resource usage, although javascript may be higher >>>still, but I haven't needed to compare flash to javscript before. >>> >> >>Bigger code base sure -- and lots of code that might not get used for >>some config -- if the code is written nicely that's largely to one >>side and people don't notice it. It's mostly UI stuff anyway -- as I >>said you actually end up needing most of the same back end processing >>if you're doing anything that involves not just POIs (and for various >>OSM reasons that's increasingly not so useful). This is more about >>good design than an inherent property. >> >>Higher memory and resource usage is about how you program it, and how >>the simple mode switch works, and isn't necessarily true at all. >> >>Flash vs Javascript is not really relevant to the points made, unless >>you mean that there isn't currently a javascript editor to cut down, >>which is of course true. >> >>Dave >> >>___ >>talk mailing list >>talk@openstreetmap.org >>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > Dave, > > Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, > and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. > Potlatch 2 currently runs on my netbook, and seeing as how I develop it on my netbook it should continue to do so :-) My netbook is an Atom 1.6GHz 1GB RAM BTW. The SWF size is about 550KB at the moment, most of which will be the flex gui framework and associated bits and pieces, so will be present in any flex based flash app. If you do a break down of where the code is at the moment: - about 20 classes for tag editing (the "simple" user stuff) - about 10 classes for vector editing - about 20 classes for handling OSM objects, and talking to the API 0.6 - about 25 classes for rendering data (halcyon) Simple mode basically takes out the vector editing stuff. You can obviously make something a lot lighter if you weren't using flex. Well, startup bandwidth lighter at least. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On 1 March 2010 06:03, Pieren wrote: > But in OSM, we try to avoid abbreviations when possible. Then you don't have > to explaine later again and again what means "CO" or add a note or a > reference to a wiki page. "network=county" is not so long and clear for > everyone. Simply because those abbreviations are already in common use when refering to routes etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:43 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 1 March 2010 05:41, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: > >> network=CO (county) > >> network=S (state) > > >The brackets were meant for explanation purposes only. > But in OSM, we try to avoid abbreviations when possible. Then you don't have to explaine later again and again what means "CO" or add a note or a reference to a wiki page. "network=county" is not so long and clear for everyone. my 2 cents Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On 1 March 2010 05:41, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: >> network=CO (county) >> network=S (state) > > why duplicate redundant info, requires double care when a roud is > up/downgraded. isn't it better this way The brackets were meant for explanation purposes only. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On 28 Feb 2010, at 10:18 , John Smith wrote: > On 1 March 2010 04:03, Mike N wrote: >> That doesn't help in this case: for example a US highway crosses multiple >> states, but is always assigned the same shield.And there is nothing in > > This is just a pre-processing problem before going into pgsql for > mapnik, or whatever rendering software you use, you extract the way > inside the polygon. > >> standard tagging (that I remember) to distinguish a county from state road - > > network=CO (county) > network=S (state) why duplicate redundant info, requires double care when a roud is up/downgraded. isn't it better this way network=CO network=S or network=county network=state > >> I follow the general recommendation that US=primary, state=secondary, most >> major county roads=tertiary. Those in other regions may promote the small >> roads based on lane count, max speed, etc. > > In Australia the designations are applied based on a number of > factors, like source of funding (partially or wholly federally > funded), or the numbering scheme applied by the state (alphanumeric or > otherwise). > > As far as I can tell, every route type in Australia has been > documented on this page: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Custom_Highway_Shields > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On 1 March 2010 05:01, John F. Eldredge wrote: > However, a given administrative area may well contain country-level, > state-level, and county roads. If a given road is tagged with only a number, > what indicates which one of these is meant? Also, it is not unusual for a > stretch of physical roadway to be considered part of both a country-level > road and a state-level road, etc. Which is where the network=* tag comes in, it tells you explicitly if it's national (network=I), state (network=S) or county (network=CO) The type of road isn't enough to tell you the administrative information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Google Summer of Code Projects
Hi There, It will soon be time for OpenStreetMap to apply to join the 2010 Google Summer of Code Programme. This gives students the opportunity to work on open source projects during the summer, for which they receive some payment by Google. It costs us nothing more than providing a Mentor to guide the student. It would be really useful if we could put together a list of potential student projects to get potential applicants thinking. The projects need to be fairly well defined to make it easy to judge 'success', so it is good to have specific targets. >From recent discussions on these lists I have identified the following possibilities so far: - Develop a stand alone 'Newbie'/'Introductory'/'Lite' Editor - the priority is ease of use rather than functionality. - Help with the development of Potlatch 2 (maybe to include the 'lite' editor functionality) - we would need to help the applicants identify specific targets. - Develop a simple 'mapping tool' for mobile phones to *easily* collect GPX traces, geotagged images and geotagged audio clips. Ideally it should be capable of running on both Android, J2ME and Iphones, so you can have the same simple application no matter what sort of phone you use. - Improve the usability of a simple mobile phone map editing application (such as vespucci for android). - Incorporation of OSM data and traffic data. I am sure there are other things that I am not familiar with too - would it be useful for someone to do some work on tools to process OSM data in some way, or are there any tasks on the OSM server itself that could be turned into projects? Please will you give some thought to other possibilities and either add them to the GSoC 2010 Wiki Page ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010) or reply by email if you prefer. Thanks Graham. -- Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
However, a given administrative area may well contain country-level, state-level, and county roads. If a given road is tagged with only a number, what indicates which one of these is meant? Also, it is not unusual for a stretch of physical roadway to be considered part of both a country-level road and a state-level road, etc. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:30:46 To: Mike N Cc: Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation On 1 March 2010 03:17, Mike N wrote: > Is there a good argument to omitting the state abbreviation from the > ref? Will the end result of changing to just a number be usable by the > "Highway Shields" project? The common reference "County road 49" comes to You can use admin boundaries to derive country, state, and county information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] HOT ready? Concepción, Chile eart hquake
All we need are earthquakes on every square mile of the planet, and OSM will be complete in no time! :-) On Feb 27, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Mikel Maron wrote: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2010_Chile_earthquake > > Thanks to Harry Wood and others for getting the wiki up. Inquiries on > satellite imagery are going out... > > == Mikel Maron == > +254(0)724899738 @mikel s:mikelmaron > http://mapkibera.org/ > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Haiti > > > From: Andy Robinson > To: talk@openstreetmap.org > Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 12:24:04 PM > Subject: [OSM-talk] HOT ready? Concepción, Chile earthquake > > 8.8 strength earthquake hit the coastal area of Chile 3 hours ago. No news > for the epicentre but understood to be around Concepción, Thanks to OSM that > area is quite well mapped but only roads and the basics. > http://osm.org/go/MOVHuQ7- > > -- > Cheers > > Andy > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Yours &c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On 1 March 2010 04:03, Mike N wrote: > That doesn't help in this case: for example a US highway crosses multiple > states, but is always assigned the same shield.And there is nothing in This is just a pre-processing problem before going into pgsql for mapnik, or whatever rendering software you use, you extract the way inside the polygon. > standard tagging (that I remember) to distinguish a county from state road - network=CO (county) network=S (state) > I follow the general recommendation that US=primary, state=secondary, most > major county roads=tertiary. Those in other regions may promote the small > roads based on lane count, max speed, etc. In Australia the designations are applied based on a number of factors, like source of funding (partially or wholly federally funded), or the numbering scheme applied by the state (alphanumeric or otherwise). As far as I can tell, every route type in Australia has been documented on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Custom_Highway_Shields ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
That doesn't help in this case: for example a US highway crosses multiple states, but is always assigned the same shield. And there is nothing in standard tagging (that I remember) to distinguish a county from state road - I follow the general recommendation that US=primary, state=secondary, most major county roads=tertiary. Those in other regions may promote the small roads based on lane count, max speed, etc. -- Original message from John Smith : -- > On 1 March 2010 03:17, Mike N wrote: > > Is there a good argument to omitting the state abbreviation from the > > ref? Will the end result of changing to just a number be usable by the > > "Highway Shields" project? The common reference "County road 49" comes to > > You can use admin boundaries to derive country, state, and county information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"
Dave Stubbs wrote: >On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:29 AM, John Smith >wrote: >>On 26 February 2010 19:44, Dave Stubbs wrote: >>>There are two big advantages of a simple mode to an existing full editor: >>> >>> - you don't have to write the OSM handling parts again, even a simple >>>editor needs to cope with some quite complex things >>> >>> - you provide an easy choice for the user who wishes to progress onto >>>something less basic >> >>There are some downsides, bloated code base, which in turns makes >>things harder for new coders to edit or fix small issues, and higher >>memory and other resource usage, although javascript may be higher >>still, but I haven't needed to compare flash to javscript before. >> > >Bigger code base sure -- and lots of code that might not get used for >some config -- if the code is written nicely that's largely to one >side and people don't notice it. It's mostly UI stuff anyway -- as I >said you actually end up needing most of the same back end processing >if you're doing anything that involves not just POIs (and for various >OSM reasons that's increasingly not so useful). This is more about >good design than an inherent property. > >Higher memory and resource usage is about how you program it, and how >the simple mode switch works, and isn't necessarily true at all. > >Flash vs Javascript is not really relevant to the points made, unless >you mean that there isn't currently a javascript editor to cut down, >which is of course true. > >Dave > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Dave, Do you have any way to estimate the resource requirements for Potlatch 2, and what they would be if a "simple" switch were added. It would be much better to have something to go on, rather than assumptions, which often lead to flame wars. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
On 1 March 2010 03:17, Mike N wrote: > Is there a good argument to omitting the state abbreviation from the > ref? Will the end result of changing to just a number be usable by the > "Highway Shields" project? The common reference "County road 49" comes to You can use admin boundaries to derive country, state, and county information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
I don't see that the Wiki is self-contradictory in this case; it quite clearly states the convention for US and US Interstate highway refs. Is there a good argument to omitting the state abbreviation from the ref? Will the end result of changing to just a number be usable by the "Highway Shields" project? The common reference "County road 49" comes to mind, and how can county, state and US highways be distinguished from each other? I have no opinion - it would be good to agree on the highway and route relation tagging conventions. -- Original message from Nathan Edgars II : -- > >The reasons for the revert was because NE2 had changed many segments of SC > >state highway ref tags from “SC xx” to “xx” that I had added. This is > >counter to what the US highway wiki states, and there are good reasons for > >keeping the “SC” in SC , which I don't want to get into here. I was not > >offered any explanation why my edits were changed. > > The wiki is so self-contradictory that I'm sure it does state that in > one place, and the opposite in another place. Every time I've tried to > get a discussion going on improving this, there's been no interest. > I believe I only changed those routes I was making other changes to. > (By the way, I omit the state for the same reason we don't see "UK A1" > - it's clear what's meant by a simple alphanumeric designation.) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
Valent Turkovic wrote: > There are some valid ideas that don't need much cpu processing or some > fancy coding. Just tag bot accounts as bots and offer to remove them from > history list. > Why bother whether the changeset was created by a bot or not. Simply offer the user the choice not to display big changesets (say those covering more than 5 degrees in either latitude or longitude). That should get rid of most bot edits and other edits unlikely to touch your area of interest. It could be implemented with a checkbox on the history page. Such a solution shouldn't need much extra CPU power. Ole ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
Tobias Knerr wrote: > Instead of making this a property of an account, we could also > implement bot flags for individual edits by attaching a bot=yes to the > changeset. good idea! i just implemented a bot=yes tag for changeset of xybot and its brothers. it's now the history-tab-programmers' turn to add a "hide bot edits" checkbox to the history tab and maybe the api. cheers frank ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
Am 28.02.10 12:26, schrieb Valent Turkovic: > On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:26:00 +, Tom Hughes wrote: > >> How do you propose that we identify bots? > > They have names, on the screenshot I would see 90% less noise if only > xybot "user" is removed from the list. btw. xybot's author has reduced the frequency of it's checks so you will only find one entry per day from somewhere early february on. Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chile - earthquake - area definition
Am 28.02.2010 15:29, schrieb Shaun McDonald: > Hi Jan, > > Have you taken a look at the chile.poly file on > http://downloads.cloudmade.com/south_america/chile#downloads_breadcrumbs > which contains the country outline? > > Shaun > > On 28 Feb 2010, at 14:02, Jan Tappenbeck wrote: > > >> HI ! >> >> is anybody define the area (geo-coord.) of chile - it is usefull for >> creating maps ! >> >> regeards Jan :-) >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > hi ! would you like to earthquake-poi-map for the whole country ? regards Jan :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chile - earthquake - area definition
Hi Jan, Have you taken a look at the chile.poly file on http://downloads.cloudmade.com/south_america/chile#downloads_breadcrumbs which contains the country outline? Shaun On 28 Feb 2010, at 14:02, Jan Tappenbeck wrote: > HI ! > > is anybody define the area (geo-coord.) of chile - it is usefull for > creating maps ! > > regeards Jan :-) > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Chile - earthquake - area definition
HI ! is anybody define the area (geo-coord.) of chile - it is usefull for creating maps ! regeards Jan :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
Hi, Valent Turkovic wrote: > There are some valid ideas that don't need much cpu processing or some > fancy coding. Just tag bot accounts as bots and offer to remove them from > history list. That's an el-cheapo solution that would scratch your particular itch but still it would hide bots that have edited the very area you're looking at. Having a "bot flag" would be good for a number of reasons but your problem would not be solved by that. In my opinion this is not something we can do in the API (personally I think the "history" tab on the web page was a big mistake, I would never have put it there). But it could be done on a third party site. Why not implement it? A little better coding quality on the bot programmers' side would also help. It would not be too hard to split up their changes so as to not create changesets spanning 100s of square kilometres. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Hi, Tirkon wrote: > Here is an example, sadly in German. I do not know an English one. > http://geoportal.geodaten.niedersachsen.de/navigator/? But they are far from perfect. On Google maps you can now view the map oriented towards any of the main compass directions ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] NaviPOWM 0.2.4 released
Hi, NaviPOWM's new version (0.2.4) was released. You can get it here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/navipowm Here some changes between 0.2.3 and 0.2.4: - implemented coastlines - more POI types - last.gps now saved in SAVE - reopen serial port if open not successfully - clock now displays NMEA time when clicked on it - maxspeed knows now mph, maxspeed:forward, maxspeed:backward und DE:urban, rural, etc. - switched to Qt 4.6.2 and MinGW with g++ 4.4.0 on Windows - size of zoom button configurable - fixed some bugs - implemented some feature requests Old map files can still be used, but do not contain all neede information. Documentation has still to be written / updated. Julian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:16:13 +, Tom Hughes wrote: > I take it you've got some magic code I can deploy to fix this then? > Perhaps you could let me know where to find it? There are some valid ideas that don't need much cpu processing or some fancy coding. Just tag bot accounts as bots and offer to remove them from history list. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, zwave registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On 28/02/10 12:07, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I would love to see bots that are making changes it the changes were in > area I'm monitoring, but I see bots from antartica to australia! Come on! > The bots need to go off that list ASAP, there is no need for them to be > listed there. I take it you've got some magic code I can deploy to fix this then? Perhaps you could let me know where to find it? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:35:50 +0100, Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: > The alternative would be to educate each other on how to map properly, > so the bots don't have to fix sloppy mapping all the time. I would love to see bots that are making changes it the changes were in area I'm monitoring, but I see bots from antartica to australia! Come on! The bots need to go off that list ASAP, there is no need for them to be listed there. The issue is that we see bots in area that is perfectly mapped with out any errors, duplicated notes and typos. One of our member cleaned the complete Croatia of all duplicated nodes... but I still see bots even if I monitor just one street. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, zwave registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes schrieb: > On 28/02/10 11:35, Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: > >> The alternative would be to educate each other on how to map properly, >> so the bots don't have to fix sloppy mapping all the time. > > Another possibility would be more people learning that there is no one > official or proper way to map which they need to enforce with bots. I agree, but I was talking more about (obvious) typos and duplicate nodes and suchlike being cleaned up regularly. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuKVzkACgkQFUbODdpRVDxclwCgj9PFEagyRFXm9QUk8jzHx4Ay TvYAoMwwKdmbNIYpcdyVO6zEd32Cprs0 =rTvJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On 28/02/10 11:35, Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: > The alternative would be to educate each other on how to map properly, > so the bots don't have to fix sloppy mapping all the time. Another possibility would be more people learning that there is no one official or proper way to map which they need to enforce with bots. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Valent Turkovic schrieb: > Please, please remote bot entries from Potlach history. > > Here is how history of edits currently looks like for my home town: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/184632/bots.png > > This is completely useless when there are bots that take over all history! The alternative would be to educate each other on how to map properly, so the bots don't have to fix sloppy mapping all the time. Besides the history tab has nothing at all to do with potlatch. - -- Dirk-Lüder "Deelkar" Kreie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuKVREACgkQFUbODdpRVDymEwCgtTb9OOeb5uTJdwzY7oB/8c1S e6IAoKjL5F52tMg7awAs4N3gZDugXjgi =c/t3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:49:05 +0100, Tobias Knerr wrote: > Wikipedia requires accounts used for automated editing to have a "bot > flag". This information is then used to add "B"s next to Bot edits in > history/watchlist/... and for a "Hide bots" filter in these lists. > > Instead of making this a property of an account, we could also implement > bot flags for individual edits by attaching a bot=yes to the changeset. Yes! Please to that, it sounds like a reasonable solution. -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, zwave registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Conference in Budapest later this month
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:43:13 -0700, SteveC wrote: > Anyone in or near Budapest please give Gabor a shout to speak at a conf > about OSM... Aa, I missed this post! :( Any links about this conference? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, zwave registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Inquiry about Egnos / Indoor mapping
Aun Johnsen wrote: >EGNOS require clear view of the sky in the same way that the GPS >needs >From Middle-Europe you require a clear view nearly to the south (similar to Astra TV-satellite, look at the antennas), because the EGNOS satellites are in a geostationary orbit above Africa and from Middle-Europe-sight not too far away from Astra. For other receiving-positions look at the EGNOS satellite positions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Geostationary_Navigation_Overlay_Service#Satellites Many GPS-Loggers (i.e. Garmin, satellite view, letter "D" for DPGS) support EGNOS, because the signal is already available for a few years as "beta". Look at the description of your logger. If a satellite is not available, there is possibly another solution. I did not try it and I am not really sure. Look at http://www.gpsbabel.org/htmldoc-development/filter_track.html and look for ²DPGS". That sounds to me as if GPS-Babel could support EGNOS. If this true, you possibly can throw your track into GPS-Babel, configure it accordingly and it will automaticly fetch the EGNOS-data by internet and correct the track, assumed the time stamps in the track are correct. Otherwise do not use it. If your GPS-Logger is supported by GPS-Babel, it will also import the tracks to your PC. All that inclusive outputting your desired format (i.e. OSM compatible GPX) will be done in one turn, if you configure GPS-Babel accordingly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:26:00 +, Tom Hughes wrote: > How do you propose that we identify bots? They have names, on the screenshot I would see 90% less noise if only xybot "user" is removed from the list. There could be easily comiled a list of the bots that make most of the edits, there are not that many of them. Is that a problem to do? -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, zwave registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
Tom Hughes wrote: >> When will bots be removed from history in Potlach? It is really hard to >> see what is going on in some area when all I can see are bot entries and >> (big) entries. > > How do you propose that we identify bots? Wikipedia requires accounts used for automated editing to have a "bot flag". This information is then used to add "B"s next to Bot edits in history/watchlist/... and for a "Hide bots" filter in these lists. Instead of making this a property of an account, we could also implement bot flags for individual edits by attaching a bot=yes to the changeset. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On 28/02/10 10:12, Valent Turkovic wrote: > When will bots be removed from history in Potlach? It is really hard to > see what is going on in some area when all I can see are bot entries and > (big) entries. How do you propose that we identify bots? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Hi,
Tirkon wrote:
> Possibly I am too much in a science fiction. But I could imagine the
> OSM homepage as a kind of WMS-service with a user-configurable map. A
> menue will take control, which items are shown, highlighted, four
> color theoremed [1] i.e. urban quarters of a town (with one quarter
> highlighted). Thus the cycling-map, the public transport (ÖPNV Karte),
> the features of openstreetbrowser and all the other special maps could
> be integrated, configureable with much more precision as provided by
> these maps i.e. show only streets, motorways, motorways and rivers
> etc.
What you are describing is the "web map to end all web maps". It is a
natural tendency for many in the IT industry to always try and
generalise ("if I add this and make that configurable, then the same
backend could be used to do all these things...").
In contrast, I think that a lean main site has a better chance of
encouraging individuals to create their own specialist maps just as we
have it now.
The more of OSM is centrally run and maintained, the less diversity and
creativity the project will offer.
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
___
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talk@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
On 28 Feb 2010, at 10:12, Valent Turkovic wrote: > When will bots be removed from history in Potlach? It is really hard to > see what is going on in some area when all I can see are bot entries and > (big) entries. > > Please, please remote bot entries from Potlach history. > > Here is how history of edits currently looks like for my home town: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/184632/bots.png That history list is nothing to do with Potlatch. You need to click the edit tab to get Potlatch. > > This is completely useless when there are bots that take over all history! The removal of the big changesets has been discussed, however it would be too processor intensive to add that to the search as the bbox area (determinator for when the changeset is big) is calculated dynamically when each changeset is written to the HTML. It is recommended that you look at other tools such as ITO World's OSM Mapper. Also removing big changesets isn't what you are looking for. What you are looking for is for changesets that don't touch and of the objects in your bbox to be excluded and that is even more computationally expensive. Shaun > > > -- > pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt > blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com > linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, > zwave > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] When will bots be removed from history?
When will bots be removed from history in Potlach? It is really hard to see what is going on in some area when all I can see are bot entries and (big) entries. Please, please remote bot entries from Potlach history. Here is how history of edits currently looks like for my home town: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/184632/bots.png This is completely useless when there are bots that take over all history! -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt blog: http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće, zwave registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, MSN: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Sahana Chile 2010 - Instance live & on standby
Hi all, http://chile.sahanafoundation.org/ is live. We are looking forward to serving up your maps & proving them as GPX files for field responders to download to their GPS units. Kind regards, Tim McNamara ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Chile Datasets Imports, Mapping
Hi, As some parts of Chile are already well mapped, and before post-earthquake satellite imagery become available, OSMers with experience in data import might want to have a look at the existing datasets : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2010_Chile_earthquake/Imagery_and_data_sources#Existing_Data_Sets Mappers might want to have a look at the information for mapping damages available from various sources on : http://wiki.crisiscommons.org/wiki/Chile/2010_2_27_Earthquake Best regards, Jean-Guilhem ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
