Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti.

[Kate Chapman]

Hi Shawn,

There is an active OpenStreetMap community in Haiti. (Some of them
read this list).

I've cc'd that list if you'd like to get involved there is probably
the best place.

Last year there was a project in St. Marc that might be of interest:

http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-06-24_return_to_the_training_in_saint_marc_haiti_mixing_generic_and_specific_teaching_a

http://hot.openstreetmap.org/updates/2012-04-24_coming_to_a_close_in_saint_marc

Best,

-Kate

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 4:13 AM, Shawn Dash  wrote:
> Dear OpenStreetMap friends of Haiti:
>
> A few days ago headlines about Haiti were all about the 3-year earthquake
> anniversary.   Is that really all Haiti is?!
>
> I love telling my friends that there are many businesses in Haiti and that
> the country actually is flourishing.And, again, people just do not
> believe.
>
> I am thinking that it would be really wonderful to create a map of the small
> businesses in Haiti -- to show and prove that it is not just tents and
> cholera.
>
> Let's begin a conversation about how life goes on in Haiti, how the county
> is living and breathing, and how Haiti is actually standing on it's own and
> moving forward.
>
> The headlines about Haiti should be the beauty and the life, not the
> destruction and the aid!
>
> I tried to find a map of small businesses in Haiti -- and all I could find
> was something in Foursquare that's nice, but it is mainly in the richer
> areas and it is more about night-clubs and drinking and not really the small
> businesses.
>
> I think it would be really interesting to GPS tag as many barbershops in
> Haiti as possible, since, the barbershop -- in it's own way -- is a sign
> that life goes on in Haiti, and that there is indeed a local economy.   As
> we both know, there's thousands of barbershops, everywhere, even in
> containers!
>
> I am wondering if, as you are geo-mapping and geo-tagging, if there is
> anyway to start a project show I can show my friends that Haiti is not just
> disease and famine -- there is very much a living life, too!
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thank you!
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Jeff Meyer]

Alex - for the recent King County and City of Seattle disclaimers, I
explicitly pointed them to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**
wiki/Contributors , and
asked if putting the disclaimers on that page would suffice. They said yes.
I don't know if that means the wiki page is the right or best solution,
just that it indisputably worked for 2 sources.

My impression is that there's also a mismatch between import sources who
*should* be listed (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Import) and
those who actually are. I'd be glad to compare and update the
attributions... assuming no one else is dying to do it! ; )

- Jeff

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On 15.01.2013 23:15, Alex Barth wrote:
>
>> I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the
>> /copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on
>> the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better)
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Contributorsand
>>  move them a click
>> away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps?
>>
>
> It's hard to say what is, or has been, promised. But we (=we the project,
> not we the OSMF) occasionally encounter potential data providers who have
> some sort of license that says "you must provide attribution", without
> clearly saying where and how. Then we often explain OSM to them, saying
> "you can't get attribution on the map, but your attribution will be in the
> object history and if you want we can put you on
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/**copyrightwhich
>  we ask people to link to when they use our data", and we ask them
> "would that fulfil your demand for attribution?" and if they say yes we can
> use their data.
>
> You'd have to check with LWG but I doubt that any of those listed on that
> page have been promised to be exactly one click away from the map; they
> probably have been promised to be listed "on this page". Still it could be
> perceived as bad style if we move them to a less prominent place.
>
> I don't think that a Wiki page will do because the words on the copyright
> page are probably meant to be written exactly as they are there, and not
> subject to Wiki editing, for legal reasons. But that would really be
> something to discuss with the LWG.
>
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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-- 
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Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
 osm: Historical
OSM
 / my OSM user page 
 t: @GWHAThistory 
 f: GWHAThistory 
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 15.01.2013 23:15, Alex Barth wrote:

I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the
/copyright location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on
the wiki? Is there any leeway to merge them into (a better)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors and move them a click
away from the page on OSM that's linked from maps?


It's hard to say what is, or has been, promised. But we (=we the 
project, not we the OSMF) occasionally encounter potential data 
providers who have some sort of license that says "you must provide 
attribution", without clearly saying where and how. Then we often 
explain OSM to them, saying "you can't get attribution on the map, but 
your attribution will be in the object history and if you want we can 
put you on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright which we ask people to 
link to when they use our data", and we ask them "would that fulfil your 
demand for attribution?" and if they say yes we can use their data.


You'd have to check with LWG but I doubt that any of those listed on 
that page have been promised to be exactly one click away from the map; 
they probably have been promised to be listed "on this page". Still it 
could be perceived as bad style if we move them to a less prominent place.


I don't think that a Wiki page will do because the words on the 
copyright page are probably meant to be written exactly as they are 
there, and not subject to Wiki editing, for legal reasons. But that 
would really be something to discuss with the LWG.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC - OSM contributor mark

[Alex Barth]

Frederik -

On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:03 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> the copyright page we're using now might be better suited for that, not least 
> because many third parties who give us their data are promised attribution 
> via that page and it might not be good to put that behind too many clicks.

I'd like to understand better, have these parties been promised the /copyright 
location for credits? How do they wind up on there vs. on the wiki? Is there 
any leeway to merge them into (a better) 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors and move them a click away from 
the page on OSM that's linked from maps?  

Alex Barth
http://twitter.com/lxbarth
tel (+1) 202 250 3633





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[OSM-talk] Adventure Motorcycling Handbook

[Beej Jorgensen]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (haven't been keeping up on
the list), but the latest edition of the Adventure Motorcycling
Handbook lists OSM a couple times as a good source of maps, especially
for developing countries.

Naturally, I keep my GPS full of OSM maps while out in the woods on
the bike, and update the map when it needs it. Good stuff! :-)

Keep up the good work, folks!

--
Brian "Beej Jorgensen" Hall - b...@beej.us - http://beej.us/

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[OSM-talk] Haiti.

[Shawn Dash]

Dear OpenStreetMap friends of Haiti:

A few days ago headlines about Haiti were all about the 3-year earthquake
anniversary.   Is that really *all* Haiti is?!

I love telling my friends that there are many businesses in Haiti and that
the country actually is flourishing.And, again, people just do not
believe.

I am thinking that it would be really wonderful to create a map of the
small businesses in Haiti -- to show and prove that it is not just tents
and cholera.

*Let's begin a conversation about how life goes on in Haiti, how the county
is living and breathing, and how Haiti is actually standing on it's own and
moving forward.*

The headlines about Haiti should be the beauty and the life, not the
destruction and the aid!

I tried to find a map of small businesses in Haiti -- and all I could find
was something in Foursquare that's nice, but it is mainly in the richer
areas and it is more about night-clubs and drinking and not *really* the
small businesses.

*I think it would be really interesting to GPS tag as many barbershops in
Haiti as possible, since, the barbershop -- in it's own way -- is a sign
that life goes on in Haiti, and that there is indeed a local economy.   As
we both know, there's thousands of barbershops, everywhere, even in
containers!*

I am wondering if, as you are geo-mapping and geo-tagging, if there is
anyway to start a project show I can show my friends that Haiti is not just
disease and famine -- there is very much a living life, too!

What do you think?

Thank you!
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[OSM-talk] Mappy Hour: start one. Plus multimedia :-)

[Richard Weait]

Hi all,

I've encouraged you to start a local Mappy Hour, or other local in-person
OSM event before.  Yes.  I'm doing that again.  Attending Mappy Hour is
fun.  I imagine that the London pub meets and German Stammtisch are every
bit as fun, and look forward to attending them as I travel.

So do that.  Start a Mappy Hour or equivalent in your town, too.

We've had two OSM events in Toronto so far in 2013.  Our regularly
scheduled event was noticed by a producer of a radio program, and we were
asked to come and talk about Mappy Hour on the radio.  That was fun to do
and a little nerve-wracking.  I would love to have the opportunity to do it
again in the future.

The interview was very early in the morning on the day of the event.  We
had a record number of newcomers attend that night, and a record number of
attendees*.   The newcomers are not people I would have reached in other
ways.  It was great fun to meet them, hear their interests and stories, and
share our OSM-ness with them.  While it was a long day, I'm feeling
recharged and ready to do even more advocacy locally.

I guessed correctly that the on-air time would seem to fly by.  It sure
did.  So I prepared a Q&D web site to promote Toronto Mappy Hour,
specifically the event last night.  I let talk-ca@ know about it and
Tristen jumped right in so that I could add some css to my raw html. Thanks
Tristen.

I'll probably do more with the site over time.  Have a look and offer
suggestions if you like.  The audience is Not Us Here, but somebody who has
just heard about OpenStreetMap.  The goal is very narrow - encourage new
mappers to add local knowledge.

http://BeAMapper.com/

Multimedia - The radio interview is here (flash req'd)
http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/episodes/2013/01/14/mappy-hour/

Best regards and happy mapping,
Richard

* both records tied with previous records, and both records exclude special
events with free food. :-)
** also https://github.com/rweait/beamapper
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Paul Johnson]

Seems rather overkill for expressing an opinion.  Or is dissent no longer
allowed?  If that's the case, then that memo needs to be more thoroughly
disseminated.
On Jan 15, 2013 10:58 AM, "Richard Weait"  wrote:

> I recommend a moderator enforced time out for Mr. Johnson.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Paul Johnson 
> Date: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org
> To: "talk@openstreetmap.org" 
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote:
>
>> Ok, I'll bite...
>>
>> >I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a
>> group Twitter caters specifically to), what are the >odds you're going to
>> be able to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
>>
>> How do illiterate people use Twitter?
>> Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to
>> the wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help
>> illiterate people?
>>
>
> It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to express an
> intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.  It's writing system just
> doesn't work that way.  And you lose characters to tags or links.  It's
> like Google+ without the intelligence, or Facebook without any
> functionality.
>
>
>>
> In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more
>> use of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging
>> (the sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as
>> GMaps), and start thinking less of pixels on osm.org
>>
>
> So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a crowd whose
> education stopped midway through Grade 2.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Richard Fairhurst]

Paul Johnson wrote:
> So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a  
> crowd whose education stopped midway through Grade 2.
> It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to 
> express an intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.  
> It's writing system just doesn't work that way.
  
  Its

cheers
Richard





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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Metcalf, Calvin (DOT)]

Make the link go to http://twitter.com/openstreetmap then and DON'T FEED THE 
TROLL!
-Original Message-
From: Tom Morris [mailto:t...@tommorris.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:54 AM
To: Paul Johnson
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

On Tuesday, 15 January 2013 at 14:36, Paul Johnson wrote:
> So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a crowd whose 
> education stopped midway through Grade 2.




I seem to have a Twitter account and a Master's degree.

Brevity is the soul of wit and all that.

-- 
Tom Morris




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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Tom Morris]

On Tuesday, 15 January 2013 at 14:36, Paul Johnson wrote:
> So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a crowd whose 
> education stopped midway through Grade 2.




I seem to have a Twitter account and a Master's degree.

Brevity is the soul of wit and all that.

-- 
Tom Morris




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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Joseph Reeves]

>It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to express an
intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.

You got that one expressed in 115 characters #JustSayin'


On 15 January 2013 14:36, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote:
>
>> Ok, I'll bite...
>>
>> >I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a
>> group Twitter caters specifically to), what are the >odds you're going to
>> be able to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
>>
>> How do illiterate people use Twitter?
>> Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to
>> the wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help
>> illiterate people?
>>
>
> It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to express an
> intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.  It's writing system just
> doesn't work that way.  And you lose characters to tags or links.  It's
> like Google+ without the intelligence, or Facebook without any
> functionality.
>
>
>>
> In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more
>> use of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging
>> (the sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as
>> GMaps), and start thinking less of pixels on osm.org
>>
>
> So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a crowd whose
> education stopped midway through Grade 2.
>
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Paul Johnson]

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013, Joseph Reeves wrote:

> Ok, I'll bite...
>
> >I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a
> group Twitter caters specifically to), what are the >odds you're going to
> be able to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
>
> How do illiterate people use Twitter?
> Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to the
> wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help illiterate
> people?
>

It's nearly impossible, in the English-speaking world, to express an
intelligent thought in 140 characters or less.  It's writing system just
doesn't work that way.  And you lose characters to tags or links.  It's
like Google+ without the intelligence, or Facebook without any
functionality.


>
In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more use
> of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging
> (the sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as
> GMaps), and start thinking less of pixels on osm.org
>

So pick social media that doesn't cater exclusively to a crowd whose
education stopped midway through Grade 2.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Simple improvement(s) to openstreetmap.org

[Shaun McDonald]

Maybe the reason for the bad grammar of Twitter users is the 140 character 
limit, this people drop out words or letters to make it fit.

Shaun

On 9 Jan 2013, at 16:21, John F. Eldredge  wrote:

> Joseph Reeves  wrote:
> Ok, I'll bite...
> 
> >I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a group 
> >Twitter caters specifically to), what are the >odds you're going to be able 
> >to make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
> 
> How do illiterate people use Twitter?
> Do illiterate people have no spatial knowledge that could be of use to the 
> wider world? Is there no way that Open spatial data could help illiterate 
> people?
> Is "our audience" people that look at osm.org and don't like social media?
> 
> In my opinion OSM is going to really take off once we start making more use 
> of social media, or other means of participation, such as SMS messaging (the 
> sorts of things you couldn't do with closed spatial data, such as GMaps), and 
> start thinking less of pixels on osm.org
> 
> Joseph
> 
> 
> On 9 January 2013 15:15, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 8:57 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> I think it is ok for us to post stuff to Twitter, and I think we should make 
> room for such news on our web page (many web sites have a widget that shows 
> the most recent twitter mentions).
> 
> I would dislike a "follow us on Twitter" button because it will only show the 
> Twitter signup page if someone doesn't have an account, and therefore make it 
> look like you had to subscribe to Twitter in order to read our news - which 
> is thankfully not true.
> 
> I think this would be missing our audience.  If you're illiterate (a group 
> Twitter caters specifically to), what are the odds you're going to be able to 
> make use of a map, much less contribute constructively to OSM?
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> talk mailing list
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> 
> I think that was a somewhat-snarky way of commenting on how many Twitter 
> users don't spell very well and/or have poor grammar. This isn't limited to 
> Twitter users, unfortunately.
> 
> -- 
> John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
> "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
> think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
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