Re: [talk-au] Twitter like emails
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:24:26 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/6 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Tue, 6 Oct 2009, Jeff Price wrote: G'day all, Any chance folks could take some conversations offline, or batch up their 15 emails into a single email? I presume I'm not the only one who has pretty well stopped paying any real attention to the talk-au list because its carrying on like a Twitter feed. Jeff. if you get the list emailed as a digest ( an option you can set at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ) you have that easily. This makes it difficult to take part in conversations in a thread-safe way. Alternatively emails can be either sent to a new mail account just for mailing list(s) emails or filtered differently from personal emails. I'm sorry, you've got the onus for change on completely the wrong side. The tweeters are the offending parties in this case, and also in the minority. They should adapt their behaviour to those of us who follow standard behavioural norms and who consider others, instead of the other way around. There are more suitable channels, as Jeff pointed out, or start your own list. The serious effect of this chatter, whether I digest or not, is that I miss a lot of important stuff because it's buried in the noise, which I tend to skim. Please think it through with other people and the net(work) effect in mind. Wiki vote, perhaps? Cheers, hopefully not for the last time. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging schema
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:25:37 +0100 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: I think though - we need to define a proper xsl schema wjich can be used WITH the tag data :( OK, benefit of the doubt goes out the window at this point. If you are going to say you hate XML with any credibility, you need to know that there is no such thing as an XSL schema. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging schema
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 01:12:41 +0200 Egil Hjelmeland pri...@egil-hjelmeland.no wrote: I started mapping my local mountain village in Norway a month ago. I find the fundamental OSM data model very simple and elegant: The three basic elements (node, way/area, relation), and properties as key-value pairs. But I don’t like that free-form tagging has been elevated to a Religion. As a mapper, I want a much more structured, well defined tagging scheme. I'm late saying this. I think your proposal is thorough, workable and well stated. Thank you – you went to places I am afraid to even dare think, so inculcated am I. I am not sure I have seen anything compelling in the thread to challenge or add to what you have said. I'm afraid I have nothing to add but support because it's exactly what I would like to see happen. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Queensland-NT border 'in wrong place'
Passing on something that came up in the ABC feed today: A Gold Coast surveying team says it has confirmed suspicions that Queensland has claimed Northern Territory land. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/16/2687218.htm Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[OSM-talk] Samoa driving direction change
(Sorry for the cross-post) This is for interest and it might affect anyone who'll do mapping in Samoa. A few days ago they changed the side of the road they drive on (to the sensible side)!: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/08/2679412.htm I can't see much mapping there, and just visually it looks like nothing on the map right now will require changing: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-13.791lon=-172.1zoom=10 I also have a feeling there are national defaults set within (svn:)/applications and maybe even in the database?. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] bus_stop further details
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:19:22 +1000 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Unless waste_basket=yes is an approved tag the likelihood of it being searched by anyone not using the tag is almost nil So the bonus is that it works now and (arguably) isn't wrong. Hence the question about whether to put it on the wiki. Yeah, I don't know the best approach. I've seen all kinds of approaches and they all end up in argument ~:| I guess this is one specific case of the broader problem of what to do when two separate entities are co-located (i.e. nodes would be right on top of each other). Well, it depends what you're calling the bus stop. If you go with the stop area approach, these problems go away. In this case I guess you could use highway=bus_stop *and* amenity=waste_basket (i.e. share a single node), but this becomes a problem when you want to tag two things with the same key, e.g. amenity=bench *and* amenity=shelter. That old chestnut. That is schema fail, but the cabal won't see reason. It's always popping up stopping us from representing the real world. Got the t-shirt. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Magpie nesting and swooping areas
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:44:55 +1000 Ashley Kyd a...@kyd.com.au wrote: As far as I know, it's a problem in different locations from year to year though. That would mean it needs cleaning up each year after the magpie season's over. Assuming they nest reasonably consistently in the same place year after year (maybe not), there would be no harm in keeping it there as a hazard=magpie_nesting_area or such. (I just made that up.) It'd be good if we could set some kind of node expiry tag to flag nodes and ways for deletion in 3 months time (or however long the problem is likely to last,) but otherwise it sounds like a bit too much hassle. I'd like that, too. It's also been discussed regarding temporary features like events and road closures and seasonal features. T-shirt. Anyway, it might be one of those things like bus timetables that are best kept separate to OSM. (Also, I'm not going to stick around and work out where the attack perimeter is. You can do that. They're nasty creatures. ;) Let's see who the dedicated mappers are. :D Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Magpie nesting and swooping areas
Just read in my local rag about a magpie hotspot map: http://city-south-news.whereilive.com.au/news/story/magpie-hotspots/ This occurred to me just recently after being on the receiving end of an air raid. Should probably be areas rather than nodes. It would be a useful feature on the cycle map and any walking maps created from OSM data. Food for thought? Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] bus_stop further details
On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:43:18 +1000 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:43 PM, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: I've been doing that for a while (well, except waste_basket=*), so that's a +1 from me :) Any objections (from anyone) to adding these to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dbus_stop ? Yep, hold your horses. There's been some excellent work by the transit list people I need to research a little more to see where it's at. It builds on this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/unified_stoparea but I think there is a tidier page somewhere. Just let me make David's Redcliffe party cake or he will kill me. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] bus_stop further details
On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:57:29 +1000 Hugh Barnes list@hughbris.com wrote: I need to research a little more to see where it's at. It builds on this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/unified_stoparea but I think there is a tidier page somewhere. Bah, I can't be digging through the murky OSM records at this time of night. Just let me make David's Redcliffe party cake or he will kill me. At least he didn't get the satisfaction. 'night. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Anyone do wikipedia edits?
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:01:14 + (GMT)
John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote:
--- On Wed, 19/8/09, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote:
I'd like to be smarter, and upload where we know we have
good work
and not upload where our map still needs a lot of input
yet
Having a wiki template/function where you just supply co-ords would
make that simple, and when the maps update so would the wiki,
uploading a static image wouldn't automatically update.
eg
{{place|name=Australia|type=Continent|area=Earth|lat=28.14|long=133.50|zoom=4}}
This template:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Place
However I think wikipedia needs code to be added so the template will
work.
I've been away and now catching up (and BTW, yes you still need
passports to visit NZ).
You guys seem to have overlooked this:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
Cheers
___
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Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] amenity=shelter
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:53:41 +1000 Ashley Kyd a...@kyd.com.au wrote: Hi all, I was having a conversation the other day when the purpose of amenity=shelter was brought into question. http://barstool.ash.ms/photos/07082009-shelter.jpg Above is a photo I took while out the other day. It's a shelter with a picnic area, bbq, and some benches under it. Can I clarify whether this is actually supposed to be *amenity=shelter;tourism=picnic_site*, or perhaps something different? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter I just did a lot of tagging of this sort of thing and have been studying the wiki and also making up my own mind (all you can do, ultimately). I would use amenity=shelter for something that's set up as a shelter and that's all it is. Otherwise, I'd treat shelter like a property and apply shelter=yes on top of other amenities or whatever. (Ditto for amenity=lamp and lit=yes|no.) In this case, you've got several amenities under one roof. I'd be inclined to map them as separate nodes, each with shelter=yes or, I dunno, wrap them in a membership relation of some kind and apply shelter=yes to that. Incidentally, I don't think benches are significant to note in close proximity to tables. I think I'm pretty much saying what Brent said in his reply [1] and I also agree about the area itself being the picnic area [2] (weird how these things come up just after you thought about them ~:~|), not so much a node. I also thought today that we shouldn't be assuming the purpose of tables. They are for picnics or sitting and stealing someone's unsecured wifi, or whatever you like :) Since today, I started to just use amenity=table. Balls to OSM telling you what a table is for. But, as usual, I digress. Cheers [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2009-August/002709.html [2] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2009-August/002712.html ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] LCA2010
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:34:52 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: ok, I've put my name down. it was a 5 minute effort so if they want us we'll be asked and if they needed convincing we will have to try again. I think that means you did it, right? If so, well done! Certainly didn't seem like a 5-minute job. All I saw were barriers to entry and curb your enthusiasm, but that's me. better get a new passport in case of being accepted :-) Yes (to John), we do need them again since nine-eleven and all that. Cheers and good luck! ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] LCA2010
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 06:58:29 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Hugh Barnes wrote: Just thought I'd interrupt the twitter-like pace of this list lately [1] and mention this. As I keep reading in feeds [2], linux.conf.au 2010 is on in Wellington early next year. We've discussed before how cool it might be to put up a paper, tutorial or display there [3], if only we could get it together. Well, there are two days left. I'm writing this on the off-chance some motivated individual might have a spare few hours to put together something, anything, for this conference by Friday. (I would actually have liked to put together a proposal for a mini-conf on open data, but alas that deadline passed a few weeks back. ~:) 1. who would go? I assumed that wasn't particularly important just yet, but reading around a little, it seems acceptance is a lot about the speaker. 2. who is prepared to speak? 2a. 45 mins is fair bit of time to talk through _ I would have managed about 20 mins last time I presented on OSM I don't think there would be any problem with a 45 min or longer demo. I'd listen to it. 3. can people get together on this list and put together a proposal in the next 18 hours? I doubt it. I hoped someone might have some time on their hands. I think all my best thoughts when I don't have an email client handy, like riding home, not at 2300 :~) I now think the best approach, if there is such a heroic time-rich person, might be to draft it up on the OSM wiki and give the list a pointer. As best I can tell, making a successful submission is not particularly trivial. It's also occurred to me that if all of this fails, maybe a mapping party should be organised to coincide with LCA. That's probably something for the outer eastern islanders. If none of that makes sense, I understand but I can't help you :~) Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] LCA2010
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:53:47 +1000 James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: On 29/07/2009, at 10:43 PM, Hugh Barnes wrote: I think OSM's profile in the FOSS community is a little dim. There have been quite a few posts on planet.gnome.org in the last couple of months about integrating maps (mostly OSM via libchamplain) into Gnome applications. However we do need to get more people aware of it. Agreed. Sorry, I meant in Oz specifically. Would someone like to put some words together to go about addressing this? If you do, best to let the list know of your intent to do so. You might even get some helper elves. Urgh. Something I mentioned the other year, although way too late to do anything about, was that we should really get LCA to use OpenStreetMap for it's mapping needs. As well as any official maps, there are often Google Maps-based things with all the good coffee shops, pubs and eateries in the area marked. It may need some work by people in the area (I haven't checked yet), but it would be good if the area surrounding the conference was well mapped out by January. Yeah, earlier in that same thread I think. Good plan. Hopefully the NZ LINZ data import will have been done by then. Of course, I'm expecting much more can be mapped than whatever's in that dataset. It's the detail that makes OSM maps stand out IMO. Another possibility is that it could be an official LCA task to do some micro-mapping. Brain dumping. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Picnic Shelters?
On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 13:25:11 +0200 Peter Herison pheri...@web.de wrote: Jeffrey Ollie schrieb: I'm just getting started with mapping, and have started with the trails and other objects in my local city parks. One thing that I haven't quite figured out is how one would tag a picnic shelter (http://images.google.com/images?q=Picnic+Shelter)? From reading the wiki, the closest I've been able to come up with is amenity=shelter but that doesn't seem quite right as the wiki page for amenity=shelter is designed more for places to protect hikers from inclement weather. Shelter means that there is a place where you're protected from wind and rain. There might be also tables and benches for picknick and a fireplace. Therefor I'd suggest to use tourism=picnic_site for table and benches, amenity=shelter if it has a roof. Though I couldn't find support on the wiki, I've been using shelter=yes, particularly for bus stops. I wondered a little while back how specific we might get with the type of shelter offered. Here (in Australia) it might encompass shelter from aggressive sun or lightning strike [1]. In other places, I imagine shelter might be offered from cold weather, like some of those heated rooms you find on exposed European train station platforms. In application, I can imagine this kind of precision being useful when shelter is sought, because generally a very specific kind of shelter would be required. However, I'm insufficiently motivated at present to propose it. Cheers - [1] complete diversion — these had me thinking of Fear no more the heat o' the sun, which I $SEARCH_ENGINEd and was surprised to find cited on the TfL site!: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/projectsandschemes/artmusicdesign/poems/poem.asp?ID=27 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted: 64 Garmin data cables
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:30:48 + 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Some of you may have noticed that while we have had a donation of 68 GPS units and assorted cables, it only included 4 Garmin data cables. For some purposes, such as mapping parties, one data cable can be shared between several GPS units. But for maximum geographical distribution we really need a data cable for each GPS unit. So I'm putting out an appeal for anyone who has a spare or unused Garmin data cable to donate it to the Foundation. I noticed this DIY cable mentioned in user CeBe's diary a little while back: http://www.jens-seiler.de/etrex/datacable.html At a pinch, it might get you out of trouble. Or we could make them for ourselves and send through our official cables ? Further, maybe Tristan da Cunha could use a unit if they're not all spoken for: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/%C3%86var%20Arnfj%C3%B6r%C3%B0%20Bjarmason/diary/4525 Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] New Caledonia slips
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:11:29 +1100 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Hugh Barnes wrote: I just noticed the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia is marked as just off the Queensland coast on the slippy map. I wish! It's at zoom levels 2 to 6: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.7lon=165.3zoom=5layers=B000FTF New Caledonia has bee there for a couple of months, I'm sure it would like to go home. Yep, I rarely go back that far so wondered if it's a long-standing issue. If no-one pipes up soon, I think I will forward to main talk list. It's not a good look. BTW I'm getting curious now - where is country/state/territory actually tagged ? Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] New Caledonia slips
Greetings I just noticed the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia is marked as just off the Queensland coast on the slippy map. I wish! It's at zoom levels 2 to 6: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.7lon=165.3zoom=5layers=B000FTF There's a few other weird coastline renderings in that view that someone might want to investigate, too. I poked around in the data a bit to see if something looked amiss. It's probably more efficient if someone who knows what they are looking for checks it out. There's also Coral Sea Islands at levels 5 and 6. These are a territory of Australia (correctly placed, it seems) that almost no-one knows about. Perhaps they have been given too high an administrative level? Then again, being unknown shouldn't count against them. There's potential to confuse some users. I certainly did a double-take. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Any folks off to LCA09 next week?
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:00:07 +1100 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, James Livingston wrote: What would probably be a good idea for next year, would be to get the university grounds and surrounding POIs mapped well - particularly with coffee shops, pubs, restaurants and other things LCA attendees will be interested in. I think that if we could show people some decent maps with useful-at-LCA places on it, people might keep them around and maybe become more interested in OSM. This is a good idea, and if we got organised earlier than one_week_in_advance, some of us could as a minimum have poster display and on-line maps available. Someone could even come up with a topic and try to get a talking slot. I thought of that last year, but alas after the deadline. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Temporarily valid data [was: Err, what?]
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:30:53 + Douglas Furlong douglas.furl...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/1/7 Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com Black Rock City is temporary, one week per year. Each year the city moves to minimize impact on the desert. Next year we'll make a new map. It does raise the question of how to preserve web mapping history. Burning Man is an extreme example of a dynamic world in flux. Burning Man Flickr photos from 2008 only make sense against the 2008 map. If you move every year, then a simple solution would be to Map it with the year in which it was done. It would be nice if some thing as significant as this was maintained in Open Street Map. But that's just me. I have thought about first-class temporal aspects to OSM data for a while. It has to be classed as a wishlist, for sure, as it's a major change and a performance impost. It would need to be exposed in the API for Flickr maps and other mashups, where the map needs to be rendered as it was. It would be great for roadworks (can set detours etc. ahead of time if we know them). Apparently, a new problem for roadworks managers is drivers using navigation systems which provide routing directions based on temporarily closed permanent roads. What a boon it could be for OSM to enable these projects to input their time-tagged plans into OSM to make available to drivers as patches. Features like circuses were discussed not so long ago. I've also thought about historical features. Potentially, features could be mapped that no longer exist, so that, with the date metadata, a user could time-travel back with a slider or whatever. I have some expanded notes somewhere but don't have time to dig them out right now. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] golf question
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:39:42 +0530 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: I am developing what in golfing terms is known as a stroke saver. This is a map of a golf course where the distances between various points are marked. The points may be significant rocks, trees, palm trees, yardage markers, sprinkler heads ... since these tags are specific to golf, I would not expect the regular renderers to ever render these. However the tags would be in the OSM database and rendered by a dedicated server. I would like some feedback on how to make these tags. I was thinking of something like this: golf=marker marker=tree/palm/rock/yardage/sprinkler etc description=some description Using this I expect to generate an svg image on which the lines can be drawn to show distances from given markers to other markers. Or could these lines be ways? golf=yardage distance=n any comments would be appreciated. I would say, if I understand correctly, that since these lines are derived in this sense, they shouldn't be in the database. Also, since the lines can be rendered from the markers, they don't need to be. Never thought I'd be answering a golf question. Hope that helps, anyway. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Inheritance of roles in nested relations
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:39:04 +0100 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Thanks for your answer. Hugh Barnes wrote: So it's occurred to me if I tag a role for a bus stop (stop) in a child relation, and then include that relation in the larger route relation, does the bust stop have the role stop in the parent? No, the bus stop is not known the the parent at all. Way 1, in your example, is not part of Rel 7. It's a shame. You have to admit it's a useful device and would reduce duplication of work (creation and maintenance) and storage significantly. If you say it's up to the client application, that's fine. I guess it would be possible to create a relation viewer that recursively downloads child relations and somehow makes a whole from it for display/use. It's just not something that would work on a general level - just for specific relation types. I am thinking of this metadata on the relations to explicitly recommend inheritance treatment: * parent relation has member child relation with role as inherits or child or component * child relations which have been constructed as nothing but building blocks for larger relations have tag component=yes or similar to clearly indicate what they're for, in case they get looked at in isolation. I know I could just do this, but would I get community support? Is it necessary to set up a poll or RFC? Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Inheritance of roles in nested relations
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:53:54 +0100 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hugh Barnes wrote: It's a shame. You have to admit it's a useful device and would reduce duplication of work (creation and maintenance) and storage significantly. Sure but it's not something that should be done on the API level. The API is intended as an as-simple-as-possible storage engine. How you interpret data coming out of the API is your (the client's) choice. Right. I don't think I suggested the API, just client apps (and community expectation, I guess). I think that in the long run, all tools should be able to, on a fundamental level, accept a relation everywhere they would expect a way, and then substitute the relation's members. That's right. Which would apply recursively and thus neatly solve your problem. Why would it necessarily apply recursively? I'm not sure there is a need to explicitly tag the fact that something is a parent or child relation in your case. To provide clear guidance for clients, because as you said — and I think is right, though I can't currently think of examples — this inheritance is not always desirable. Also, component=yes prevents someone deleting something that looks useless on its own. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps based onOpenStreetMap data?
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:31:46 -0800 Joe Hughes j...@headwayblog.com wrote: Hugh Barnes said: http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFeeds Ewww, CSV serialisations requiring their own purpose-built validator … Like you say, we can build from it. Let's look through the fields/elements, but make something proper and scalable that leverages XML as it should. I can sympathize with your format prejudice, but GTFS is aimed at making things as easy as possible for the data provider, since getting the data in the first place is often the hardest part. I can sympathise with your pragmatism, and was starting realise that must be what's behind your choice. Sad but true. I still think while you can accept CSV, you should want to cast into XML pretty soon to make it nice to work with. Ultimately, it's possibly not that important. I should also point out that the validator also checks a lot of deeper semantic things related to transit timetable logic, not just syntactic issues. AFAIK most complex validations can be done with the standard XML toolkit. If you haven't already, you should look at Schematron. If you can express a constraint as a boolean XPath expression, the power is yours. As far as I'm aware, though, there's been more detailed transit data opened to the public in GTFS than in any other format, and it'd be great to get the relevant parts of that into OSM. Yep, or to an offshoot data set or wherever. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] National Park Marine Park boundaries
On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:41:59 +1100 Matt White mattwh...@iinet.com.au wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that National Parks and State Forests are defined by acts of Parliament at the federal and state levels respectively, so the co-ord are probably in Hansard somewhere... Well, Hansard is just the transcriptions of parliament. I guess you mean the legislation. And you'd be right, but … We spoke about this at the 2nd Brisbane Mapping party. Apparently it's not as unambiguously phrased as you might hope. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details there. Here are the legislations listed: http://www.naa.gov.au/records-management/create-capture-describe/describe/agls/encoding-scheme-jurisdiction.aspx#section2 Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Is anyone making public transport routing maps based onOpenStreetMap data?
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:29:56 + Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: On 16 Dec 2008, at 23:30, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I'm interested in completely mapping my city bus network, it would be great if there was some online routing application that I could go to that could plan my routes. Of course I'd have to provide it with sufficient survey information to do this, which would be part of mapping it obviously. Routing applications based on OSM data also have the opportunity to do inter-network routing. You could step onto a bus in one city, take a rail to another one, inter-city bus to yet another city, then a bus and walk on a footway to your destination. All based on OSM data. I am very interested in such an application and have taken some time to see what is happening around the world. It's the main application I had in mind when I got into online mapping a few years back. http://busmonster.com was particularly inspirational for me. Can I suggest that one takes a layering approach to this (as the professional transport sector does) and some layers belong in OSM and some not... Yes, timetabling probably doesn't belong. Firstly the bus stops (or more generally 'stop 'points) which is where one physically accesses the transport system which should be point features within OSM. Could you elaborate on this? Reuse existing nodes on ways? Point features as opposed to what? Are you stressing within OSM? Secondly the routes the vehicles take which traveling on the network to get from stop point to stop point. In most cases this is obvious, but in a limited number of cases one will need to include route points that are not stop points. These might use the route relation and detail every way that is involved for every route, but this is more detail than a route planner needs that can work out most stop to stop routing without guidance. I have been (mostly) following the guidelines on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route, where we use a relation, which principally includes ways and the stops (which sit adjacent as nodes as I've done them), as members. Then your problem goes away. (It's admittedly a little sad to have to break up ways for routing. I'm also conscious that other mappers further dissecting them will probably break the relation, but I think that might be an issue for the API to address :~) ) Including detailed routing in OSM means that it has to be updated every time the schedules change. The schedules? or the route? Whichever, remember there are currently mappers embedding business phone numbers as shop metadata. All of the rest of the data can then be in Google Transit Feed Specification (an open source data standard controlled by Google) and can feed GraphServer or equivalent for route planning. GT is not perfect and can't represent complex rail journeys but it is open source and there is data available already in it that can be used and it is a good starting point: http://code.google.com/p/googletransitdatafeed/wiki/PublicFeeds Ewww, CSV serialisations requiring their own purpose-built validator … Like you say, we can build from it. Let's look through the fields/elements, but make something proper and scalable that leverages XML as it should. I am not sure how one would explicitly refer to the schedules file from OSM. Possibly all the stop points in a area would be part of a 'network' relation that that network relation would refer to the external schedules file using a 'schedules' URL. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Network Works for me. Would it be useful to create a list for discussion of public transport applications within OSM. Could I suggest a title of 'talk-transit' or should this conversation be part of the 'talk-routing' list? Including PT routing in the talk-routing list might make some sense because there is always a walking element to the routing and people interested in routing may also be interested in PT routing. I certainly think this conversation needs a 'home' that is off the main talk list which is too busy already. +1, preferably for a separate list. I'm not sure how welcome transit discussion would be on the routing list. (I'm curently subscribed to it only on the off-chance some transit material will surface.) I have been under the impression there isn't too much interest for this within OSM, judging by the paucity of activity on the lists and content on the wiki. I think it's another potential killer app for OSM. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A top tip for winter mapping
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:36:54 + LeedsTracker leedstrac...@gmail.com wrote: It was cold out, so I stuck the GPS on top of my head and pulled my woolly hat over it. Anyone looking closely might have seen a few flashing LEDs on my bonce, but a price worth paying for better traces, I'm sure you'll agree. … and a tip for the kids: don't try this on the pistes :~) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Make Messaging public, or other changes?
On 06:15:03, Matt Amos did write: i'm in favour of removing this functionality entirely. and the user diaries too. there are open, well-written and (relatively) bug-free versions of these sorts of software which we should integrate instead. we could move the diaries to wordpress blogs and move the friends and messages stuff to something like aroundme. why expend effort writing, supporting and (trying to) secure home-grown versions? Here here. Everyone wins here as far as I can tell, as long as we find the right implementation. The only positive that might be lost is seamless integration with the website UI. I don't know, do any of these third party offerings expose web services? I'd like to see this seriously considered. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Second Brisbane mapping party - *Possibility of postponement*
Brisbane mappers Just to let you know, I'm considering postponing the mapping party this coming Wednesday night. The reason is possibility of storms. If there is any chance of something like last night's little tempest, then the event probably won't work well. I am thinking that even if it is raining, it won't be particularly pleasant. Please look out for an announcement either way tomorrow night. It will be influenced by discussion on the wiki and the updated forecast: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brisbane/Mapping_Party/2008-11#Update:_Possible_postponement Please add your thoughts if you were planning to come. The slightly overshadowed good news is that the meeting venue has been decided (I overlooked that bit of planning) – when it happens, it's outside the Balmoral Cinema, 162 Oxford Street, Bulimba. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] nicer wiki URLs
On Friday 14 November 2008, 22:02:42, Shaun McDonald did write: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Making_Overview redirects to the correct page. On 14 Nov 2008, at 11:52, Stefan Baebler wrote: Eg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Making_Overview could probably should be shortened to: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/Map_Making_Overview I was contemplating pointing out that Shaun's URL != Stefan's. This is far more interesting: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Wiki_in_site_root_directory … possibly because I can vaguely remember tearing my hair out a few years back trying to do just this. The change would also need to redirect old URLs to the new, shorter ones Just to point out why, in case there is groaning: search engine juice will be retained. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Spam spam spam spam
On Sunday 02 November 2008, 23:06:05, Richard Fairhurst did write: Tom Hughes wrote: A wiki admin can delete it properly, and block the account. I guess that would involve nasty backdoor business in the database. Probably best to start working within the Mediawiki app, I reckon. I remember when Wikipedia announced that they were adding rel=nofollow attributes to all external links to deter spammers. That's because $POPULAR_SEARCH_ENGINE honours it. Not sure if it had the desired effect. Relies on spammers knowing this and caring/bothering (in our case). Hokay. I guess what I'm trying to ask is whether there's a procedure (e.g. flagging spam on a wiki page, or category, which several people can follow) which might reduce the inevitably OSM tendency for the way to get something fixed is to mail TomH. I'm trying to be considerate. ;) Wikibots, possibly assisted by user-contributed flags. Check out which bots Wikipedia use. I think they are open sourced and even have articles! (Sorry, it's too late to research this better.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_policy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Status Perhaps you could name the first bot in Tom's honour? ;~) Good luck. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SEO
On Saturday 25 October 2008, 06:37:03, SteveC did write: If positive I'd suggest that we build a list of terms we want to push the ranking up for, throw these at someone with SEO knowledge, review the changes they suggest and then see who would like to implement them. Have considered this on and off the last few days and ready to make a positive contribution for a change. I think it would be appropriate and beneficial for the project and searchers alike if OSM were to come up high in searches for: * custom maps * website maps / maps for my website * pocket maps * transport maps * travel maps * accessibility maps * toilet maps * dog walking maps * playground maps * basically any $FEATURE OSM can do better: $FEATURE maps * piste maps would be brilliant * map making * mapping software * mapping clubs ?? Is that useful? (This seems like a job for the wiki.) … and those stable placename URLs should work well after some time, finding maps $PLACE and similar. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SEO
On Saturday 25 October 2008, 06:37:03, SteveC did write: CloudMade have some people experienced in Search Engine Optimisation and we'd like to offer their time to look at making OSM push higher up search results. Basically we think it would be nice that if you search for 'free maps' and things like that then OSM comes up to the top. What do you think? If you think people searching on phrases like that mean Free as in speech, then yes, but I suspect they want free as in beer. These people would probably be more satisfied with free beer map services for the moment. I guess I'm just saying I wouldn't aim for free maps. It probably won't harm either. If positive I'd suggest that we build a list of terms we want to push the ranking up for, throw these at someone with SEO knowledge, review the changes they suggest and then see who would like to implement them. I imagine it will be a few things like making the meta tags better, maybe streamlining the text on OSM and such. I've mentioned this, but not on the list: start by canonicalising the main site hostname. Have www.openstreetmap.org redirect to, not mirror, openstreetmap.org. I'm told there are several more mirrored domains. Then your incoming links will be unambiguously (for a search engine) pointing to the same pages. There are also usability and other benefits. I'll expand if you like, but it sounds like you already have access to expertise. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SEO
On Saturday 25 October 2008, 23:35:47, David Earl did write: On 25/10/2008 12:10, OJ W wrote: Static webpages for each town -- search engines are always happy to see those. There used to be a website http://almien.co.uk/City/ which generated those sort of pages I haven't got to it yet, but some of you may remember I've intended for a while to create a listing style gazetteer from the namefinder index so that, as well as being a potentially useful resource in its own right, more importantly there will be thousands of OSM pages which will show up in search engines when someone searches for a street or a place. I will up my priority on this: I have a design and it shouldn't be too hard to do. I suspect that until some incoming links start to build up to said static resources, that it will look very much like an internal link farm to a search engine. But IANASEO, just a humble librarian mapper and search engine spectator. I'm merely speculating. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tag alt_name
On Tuesday 21 October 2008, 20:56:58, Pieren did write: I would like to add the tag alt_name in the Map Features wiki page. I discovered this tag in a mail from David Earl ([1]) sometime ago but I don't think that many people are reading the ML archives. I also don't think that a vote is required here because the tag seems obvious for me. But I would like to hear your opinions about the tag itself and if it can go directly in the Map Features page or not. Yes. Name variants are essential. Here an excerpt of David Earl's email: I'd like to encourage you, when editing the map, to think about how people might search for the features you are adding to the map and try to accommodate them, to try to be helpful to future consumers of the map data. Using alt_name is one way to do this. … and alt_name should be repeatable. I'm sorry, I seem to be bringing this up at every opportunity. I can't promise I'll stop. I'm planning a wiki page so I can get it out of my system and so you can ignore me less actively. :~) Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OsmXapi and semicolons
On 09:43, 19 October 2008, Kai Krueger did write: I was using OsmXapi today to try and get a set of bus_stops however there seem to be inconsistencies with the encoding of some of the semicolons. Would this be a good time to revive the debate about applying duplicate tags for objects where multiple values apply? ;~) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] How to extract street names from OSM data
At 09:21, Sunday 19 October 2008, Paul Zagoridis did write: Can I use the API or some other easy way to extract a subset of OSM data? Specifically I want to get a list of street names in Sydney Metro to double check addresses in a database. This is probably what you want in this case: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Protocol_Version_0.5#Retrieving_all_objects_in_a_bounding_box Suggestions? You can also get it by selecting from the map. In case you don't know, after zooming in, turn on the data layer/overlay (available from the top right hand side expanding menu), then in the frame on the left, refine your area (can be drawn). When you have your bounding right, you'll see a hyperlink to API at the bottom of all the object names. It should give you the same XML output you get from the API. Hope that's what you were after. Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Which GPS receiver, Where to buy
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 09:03:34 Thomas Schröder wrote: Hi *, I am new to the openstreetmap and wonder what would be a good GPS receiver. [The Scytex NaviGPS / Locosys (B)GT-11 looks very nice and small]. Same as the other Thomas S, I have only owned one, a Garmin eTrex H. It was the cheapest I could find, around $200, that would talk to gpsbabel around April when I decided to bite the bullet. I always expected to outgrow it within a year, but I'm still happy. Not even sure if they still sell this model – you can probably get the next one up for the same or cheaper now. You are welcome to borrow it for a week or so if you want to check these things out. I'm in the inner south, or we can meet in town on a work day. Even better — and this is my ulterior motive — come along to the Brisbane mapping party/marathon next week in New Farm and I'll walk you through it, literally: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Brisbane/Mapping_Party_Marathon/2008-10 Contact me privately if you fancy any of these options. And where I can buy them (maybe in Brissi or online). I bought mine at Johnny Appleseed, which have branches at least in Salisbury (Evans Road) and Buranda (Ipswich Road, near hospital). I have also noticed a very promising looking GPS wholesaler in the Archerfield Airport business precinct, which says it sells to the public. About here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.57177lon=153.0138zoom=17layers=B000FTF (P.S. I just noticed the Wiki front page says the mapping party is Friday when it should be Wednesday!) Cheers ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
On Monday 29 September 2008 18:37:53 Gert Gremmen wrote: I'd suggest a special usertype for batch operations, and combine that with a notification system so as to enable that account for one batch. The usertype should have the username of the uploader with a random number attached (fe cetest to cetest) to distinguish between sessions. The username should be enabled shortly before carrying out the scripts/upload by the server. The uploader could enable his temp account by filling in a web form with sufficient required fields I suggest: username bounding box for all changes description of change modified data (list of tags) intention of batch operation The form would return by email the username to be used for this upload. The email ensures that the uploader can be contacted. All worthy ideas. I would probably look at using a custom, temporarily-useful User Agent string in the HTTP request rather than specific user hoodoo, to summarise it lazily. Is this a possibility? Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Code of conduct for automated (mass-) edits
On Monday 29 September 2008 21:24:29 Shaun McDonald wrote: Hugh Barnes wrote: On Monday 29 September 2008 18:37:53 Gert Gremmen wrote: [..]] All worthy ideas. I would probably look at using a custom, temporarily-useful User Agent string in the HTTP request rather than specific user hoodoo, to summarise it lazily. Is this a possibility? No, because the user agent is not recorded as part of the edits. Nor is it planned to record it as a property of the changeset in API 0.6. Right, that's surprising, it's a pretty handy thing. I was about to ask how you know the editor in the history, but the penny's dropped that you actually use a tag to record it. I guess that's a legacy of editors existing outside of the API. I think for a RESTful API you should look to use HTTP features as much as possible. Sorry, going off-topic. Cheers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Left and Right - a proposal
On Saturday 30 August 2008 22:03:33 Aurelien Jacobs wrote: I think this idea might evolve into something worth championing. Aurelian has covered a few points I was just composing :~) Gervase Markham wrote: It seems to me that there are three ways we can deal with this: 0) Just place point features next to the way, with no explicit association apart from proximity. This is what we do now, and this lack of association causes problems. For linear features, you need to create a new, parallel way for that feature. Having to create this extra way is sub-optimal. One other problem with this is that it defines a set distance from the feature to the way. I don't see this as a problem. It's in fact an additional useful information that your left/right scheme just loose. +1 right there, maybe loosing some for the spelling :~) This means that, as you zoom out, the feature icon migrates onto the way itself as the way rendering thickens. As you zoom out, the POI aren't displayed anymore, so I doubt this can be a problem. And if you think it's really a problem, when used along with relations as proposed below, the renderer can treat those points exactly as if they were part of the way with left/right tags. +1 1) Create relations to associate the point with the way - one relation per feature type, or perhaps a generic relation type. That would be useful. Except that relations are heavyweight things Heavyweight things ?? I don't get what you mean here. complicated to set up (in current editors). The same way we shouldn't map for renderers, we also shouldn't map for editors ! If editors are somewhat complicated at setting relations, the should be improved... +lots . Don't think Gervase has properly refuted the model as such here. It should be about creating an adequate representation, no? 2) The generic left-right scheme proposed below. Left/Right Scheme - I propose that it be possible for features to be tagged using a generic left/right scheme, with left and right being relative to the direction of the way. So you might have a road way with a node somewhere in the middle with (for example): left:highway=bus_stop right:parking=pay_and_display So, just to clarify, if I want apply more properties to the bus stop, is it like this: left:highway=bus_stop left:name=Park Road … etc? Have I missed something? Syntax: -- This is where I really noticed a problem, but it certainly doesn't kill the idea. The problem is that you're using a syntactic convention that I (at least) associate with XML namespaces. I've seen other tags like piste:foo fashioned after XML namespace prefixes, and they make sense, i.e. the piste vocabulary. This scheme is really a collection of two qualifiers which play the role of directing the descriptions away from the node [insert more stuff and get accused of being an astronaut]. Anyways, I see danger in this syntax. P.S. Richard's reply has now come through. I can't think of a use case for distance from the way, but nor can I rule it out. Still, it's a hook to the real world we're describing and I can't see problem with keeping such possibilities open. At the same time, not sad to see it left out. It *is* a great idea - needs development, expansion, and perhaps better arguments than the current toolset. Please point me to IRC logs or whatever if it's already been fleshed through. Slightly incoherent myself, I admit, but at least in my defence I can point to the clock :~) Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Left and Right - a proposal
(It's getting a tad difficult to keep the thread integrity. Other relevant replies from me may follow soon) On Sunday 31 August 2008 08:08:23 Gervase Markham wrote: Hugh Barnes wrote: So, just to clarify, if I want apply more properties to the bus stop, is it like this: left:highway=bus_stop left:name=Park Road … etc? Have I missed something? I hadn't thought of that; I was focussing on simple features in the common case. Does the above seem sensible, or do you have an objection if I say a tentative Yes? :-) That's why you asked for comments! :~) Well, it doesn't feel right to me - seem to be drifting quickly into the land of kludge. I personally plan to apply lots of metadata to bus stops for my routing needs. It seems more natural to just point to another node and keep its metadata there. Then we're back at relations, aren't we? Actually, when I slept on this, I realised you're just proposing a shorthand: relations lite if you will. You are using one node as a proxy for another's metadata. This is where I really noticed a problem, but it certainly doesn't kill the idea. The problem is that you're using a syntactic convention that I (at least) associate with XML namespaces. I've seen other tags like piste:foo fashioned after XML namespace prefixes, and they make sense, i.e. the piste vocabulary. I've picked that convention because it's already used in the project. But I'm not wedded to it; if people would prefer an underscore, that's fine. But it seems that underscores are part of some tag names, not separators. Gerv OK, good, and I'm not saying don't steal XML syntax, I'm saying it could be confusing and more importantly don't overload that convention in the same project (it may well bite you). So, underscores etc seem OK as far as the idea goes, but you'll end up with lots of (e.g.) left_name, right_ref tags which any tool or aggregator or renderer will need to parse to get all names or refs out. (NB. I'm not designing around current tools, I'm looking for easy interfaces for them). You'd potentially triple/treble the tags in common use. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Left and Right - a proposal
On Sunday 31 August 2008 09:15:37 Frederik Ramm wrote: We will then still need a relation that combines the road area and the bus stop area, saying: These are not independent of each other; they are meant to be adjacent, and dear editor, if you move one, please move the other as well. Excellent point, which is why mere proximity is not meaningful enough on its own (and should rightly be portrayed geospatially only). A relation is what's needed. Maybe we can work on making the interface easier for tools - I will need to look further into what exactly the problems are before I can say more on this. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Users' activity feeds
On Saturday 23 August 2008 17:59:00 Hugh Barnes wrote:
If such feeds were to be provided through the project's infrastructure, it
shouldn't be too hard to do XSL transforms from a bounded area dataset
download [citation needed]. All of the required metadata seems to be there.
(Maybe not enough of history). I'll try to find some time tonight
(Saturday) to do this and hopefuly get back either way tomorrow.
I realise there would be questions of architecture before such a tool could
be deployed on a server (load, caching, possible size limits, frequency
limits), but it sounds like a fun exercise to start on.
I'm not sure what the easiest way to query a user's activity would be,
probably the API. (Again, wiki down). The bounded area dataset might also
be best obtained through API calls.
I've been picking away at a transformation of a bounded XML dataset. Must …
stop … tweaking. It seems usable locally at the moment, though I haven't been
able to get a nice rendering from Gecko. The validator says it's valid with a
few warnings.
I invoked the script with xsltproc on the sample URL in the wiki
(http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/map?bbox=11.54,48.14,11.543,48.145,
saved to api-sample.osm.xml), like so:
xsltproc --stringparam since.time 2008-06-02T20:28:47+01:00 osm2atom.xsl
api-sample.osm.xml change-sample.atom.xml
Unfortunately, you currently need to supply a comparison datetime as a
parameter. I can use the exslt templates to solve this, but it makes bundling
something I can simply attach a whole lot more difficult.
To get a local setup to continue checking changes for you, you'd need to
string together some scripts doing wget and cron, or whatever.
I've attached the XSL transformation (osm2atom.xsl) and my output document
(change-sample.atom.xml). I'll be happy to put this transform into svn if
anyone thinks it's worth pursuing as a service on the server. I also don't
mind moving this discussion to the dev list if it has legs.
Some miscellaneous notes, a.k.a. the devil in the detail:
- When the wiki came back, I looked at alternate datasources but didn't really
come up with anything completely suitable. The live dataset at least
shows changes (of unknown kinds) to OSM elements, so it's just workable as
a watch. I would like for there to be a dataset a little more suited to the
task. I don't think it's worth investing much more time transforming this
dataset.
- A timestamp in the bounded XML would be a useful enhancement
(/osm/@timestamp)
- The XML document has no namespace. This can cause problems for consumers.
- I only did bounded area changes, not user changes, as I couldn't find
anything suitable at all.
On the need for this type of service, I believe demand will only increase for
it, as Nick and François alluded, especially if vandalism and other
maliciousness becomes a problem.
Apologise if this is incoherent. Sleepiness has loomed.
Cheers
?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8?
!-- see global parameter $XSL.version for version number --
!--
About:
This transformation takes a bounded area XML download from the OpenStreetMap API, and creates an Atom feed showing changes made since a supplied time or in an interval of time. Started by Hugh Barnes.
References:
- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Protocol_Version_0.5
- http://atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/
Contact:
Rights:
Please modify as desired, but annotate this header accordingly if you do. Rather you didn't remove any attributions.
--
!-- changes:
Created 2008-08-23
-
Last Mod: 2008-08-25
--
!-- TO DO:
-
(~ = partial; - to do; / = done)
--
xsl:stylesheet
xmlns:xsl=http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform;
xmlns:atom=http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom;
xmlns:exslt=http://exslt.org/common;
xmlns:date=http://exslt.org/dates-and-times;
xmlns:msxsl=urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xslt
exclude-result-prefixes=exslt msxsl date
version=1.1
!-- xsl:include href=../lib/foo.xsl / --
!-- assumptions:
- source dataset in API v.0.5, with some forward-looking
- date timezone is insignificant (set to GMT currently) - can fix by using datediff from exslt
- source dataset is the most useful available
- source document has no namespace, which kind of makes me have to wrestle with namespaces in the source vs result documents more than I want to
--
xsl:output method=xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8 omit-xml-declaration=no indent=yes /
!-- This msxsl script extension fools msxsl into interpreting exslt extensions as msxsl ones, so
we can write code using exslt extensions even though msxsl only recognises the msxsl extension
namespace. Thanks to David Carlisle for this: http://dpcarlisle.blogspot.com/2007/05/exslt-node-set-function.html --
msxsl:script language=JScript implements-prefix=date
this['add'] = function (x) {
return x;
}
/msxsl:script
msxsl:script language=JScript implements-prefix=date
this['date-time'] = function (x) {
return x;
}
/msxsl:script
xsl:param
Re: [OSM-talk] Users' activity feeds
On Saturday 23 August 2008 09:12:36 Dan Karran wrote: Am 23.08.2008 um 00:18 schrieb Ian Dees [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How about an activity feed for a certain bounding box area? I think this, in combination with the user-specific activity log, would be very useful. That and Dan's original suggestion are both good ideas and needed features. Ian's has occurred to me and also others in my circle independently. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:22 PM, John07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the ito! Osm mapper This still seems to be limited to Europe from their website, and I find the signup requirement a minor barrier, though I have no objections to doing it. OSM Mapper http://www.itoworld.com/static/osmmapper does do a great job of showing user activity, filterable, and all exportable in CSV. It's always limited to specific areas though, as I understand it, and designed to show relatively raw data. On the other hand, the feeds I was contemplating would be more like summaries grouping changes together for a period of time, and limited by user, but they could also perform the same role for given areas. I'm personally fine getting every change rather than a digest. I'd probably only like ways, areas, and nodes with user-defined metadata that are not part of ways. That is, I don't want every uninteresting point making up a way unless it's significant. And now my original contribution to the thread. I'm doing it with the wiki apparently down, so I've been unable to confirm a lot of what I think is true. If such feeds were to be provided through the project's infrastructure, it shouldn't be too hard to do XSL transforms from a bounded area dataset download [citation needed]. All of the required metadata seems to be there. (Maybe not enough of history). I'll try to find some time tonight (Saturday) to do this and hopefuly get back either way tomorrow. I realise there would be questions of architecture before such a tool could be deployed on a server (load, caching, possible size limits, frequency limits), but it sounds like a fun exercise to start on. I'm not sure what the easiest way to query a user's activity would be, probably the API. (Again, wiki down). The bounded area dataset might also be best obtained through API calls. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
