Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
Simon Biber wrote: On Thu, 2 September, 2010 11:22:54 AM, andrzej zaborowski balrogg at gmail.com wrote: Besides, there's nothing in the Google Terms of Service which says you may not make use of the facts you learn by using this website. That'd just be silly. Not to mention unconscionable, and therefore unenforcible. Google does say that certain information displayed is proprietary and may not be provided to others. any unauthorized copying or reproduction of the content in any form, or by any means, is not permitted Did anybody read the discussion in http://www.edparsons.com/2008/10/who-map-is-it-anyway/ The question was not about copying or reproducing something that exists on a map. It was about using an existing map or satellite imagery for locating some new feature that does not appear on the map. This is how the discussion started. The question by Richard Fairhurst (2008 October 9) Interesting (I know, I know, I should get a life). But if the nice chaps at Richmond tell you there’s a recycling box at the corner of Park Lane and Park Road, and you use Google (map or satellite) to determine that said corner is at 51.425297,-0.334935, isn’t that a derivation? Because it would be really, really cool if it wasn’t. The answer by Ed Parsons (2008 October 9) @ Richard, OK so this is really cool then, as I can use Google maps to determine the actual location, as it both does not occur on the original map or at Richmond’s website. It is the product of my interpretation in this case based on local knowledge and the imagery therefore it is not derived ! Niklas is having very analogous use case. He took a photo and he knows he was standing at the corner of Park Lane and Park Road. If he then looks at Google maps and takes the coordinates for geotagging his photo, Ed Parsons seems to think that the geolocation of the photo is not derived. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Aun Yngve Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.orgwrote: I believe if you are the owner of the data, But what is an owner? Ownership is the lash of the bourgoise. What you own is owned by us all. Properety is theft. Therefore those who steel the map from us the mappers need to be brought to heel and allow us, the real mappers, to own the data and stop this 'new license'. you can put any license you care on it and liberate it for use with OSM regardless of chosen license. As long as you state in some way that the data is free for use within OSM or something. brgds Aun Johnsen On 31/08/2010, at 18:46, Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: Hello, When I map, sometimes I add sources to my contributions. It could be a bus route relation where I may add the GPS trace I took while riding the bus as the source for the route. Other times if I name a street I may use a geotagged/geolocated photo of the street sign as a source.(thus proving that the name is the same as the one shown on the street sign) In some cases where I want to fine-adjust the location of a geotagged photo using for example the rendered OSM Mapnik images, will part of my photo(or the photo in whole) become CC-BY-SA-2.0? (this question arised after I considered making all my geotagged -in EXIF- photos public domain CC-0-1.0-Universal) Another question about GPS traces: When I contribute to OpenStreetMap with my GPS traces which I upload, do they become available under any specific license or are they just uploaded? (if they are just uploaded then they are 'All Rights Reserved' apart from giving special permission to the OSM project to use them) Regards, Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
Niklas Cholmkvist towardsoss at gmail.com writes: Hello, When I map, sometimes I add sources to my contributions. It could be a bus route relation where I may add the GPS trace I took while riding the bus as the source for the route. Other times if I name a street I may use a geotagged/geolocated photo of the street sign as a source.(thus proving that the name is the same as the one shown on the street sign) In some cases where I want to fine-adjust the location of a geotagged photo using for example the rendered OSM Mapnik images, will part of my photo(or the photo in whole) become CC-BY-SA-2.0? (this question arised after I considered making all my geotagged -in EXIF- photos public domain CC-0-1.0-Universal) Hi, If you do not want to start a new war, take the coordinates from Google Earth/Maps. Judged by the blog http://www.edparsons.com/2008/10/who-map-is-it-anyway/ Google will not rise a hullabaloo against you. But if you want to have fun check the coordinates from both OSM and Google (and Yahoo and Bing as well) and use the average. -Jukka Rahkonen- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
Hi, take the coordinates from Google Earth/Maps. I will not. That is a non-free source, the same reason I do not look/consider Wikimapia(google maps based) or any other proprietary maps. OSM may currently be the freest data collection that exists (since CC-BY-SA-3.0 is legally invalid for OSM data according to Creative Commons) or that will exist (since OSM will soon move to a legally valid license). Not to worry though... ...because the simplest solution is to just leave my photos synchronised with the gps traces and simply not fine-adjust them. Thus I can still give them under CC-0-1.0-Universal . So I think I've got it clearer now in my mind on what to do. We use what we have. Regards, Niklas -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: Someone wrote: take the coordinates from Google Earth/Maps. I will not. That is a non-free source, the same reason I do not look/consider Wikimapia(google maps based) or any other proprietary maps. OSM may currently be the freest data collection that exists (since CC-BY-SA-3.0 is legally invalid for OSM data according to Creative Commons) If OSM data is PD, then so is Google data. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
On 1 September 2010 17:40, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: Someone wrote: take the coordinates from Google Earth/Maps. I will not. That is a non-free source, the same reason I do not look/consider Wikimapia(google maps based) or any other proprietary maps. OSM may currently be the freest data collection that exists (since CC-BY-SA-3.0 is legally invalid for OSM data according to Creative Commons) If OSM data is PD, then so is Google data. I think the correct term is it's not protected by copyright, not sure about PD. But it may be protected by something else, like a contract. So even if it was PD you can't make use of this fact because as soon as you visit google.com you may be bound by a contract. If you use it without being bound by a contract then (at least in theory) you probably are taking advantage of someone breaching their contract with google. (that's my understanding anyway) Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:25 PM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 September 2010 17:40, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: Someone wrote: take the coordinates from Google Earth/Maps. I will not. That is a non-free source, the same reason I do not look/consider Wikimapia(google maps based) or any other proprietary maps. OSM may currently be the freest data collection that exists (since CC-BY-SA-3.0 is legally invalid for OSM data according to Creative Commons) If OSM data is PD, then so is Google data. I think the correct term is it's not protected by copyright, not sure about PD. But it may be protected by something else, like a contract. Contracts can and do protect works that are public domain. Just because it's protected by a contract, that doesn't mean it's not public domain. I'd say PD is the right term. So even if it was PD you can't make use of this fact because as soon as you visit google.com you may be bound by a contract. If you use it without being bound by a contract then (at least in theory) you probably are taking advantage of someone breaching their contract with google. (that's my understanding anyway) There's nothing illegal about taking advantage of someone breaching their contract. There's tortious interference, but that requires that you *induced* the breach, not merely took advantage of it. Actually, in most jurisdictions, including mine, there's nothing illegal (tortious or criminal) about breaching a contract with Google either. Besides, there's nothing in the Google Terms of Service which says you may not make use of the facts you learn by using this website. That'd just be silly. Not to mention unconscionable, and therefore unenforcible. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
On Thu, 2 September, 2010 11:22:54 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: Besides, there's nothing in the Google Terms of Service which says you may not make use of the facts you learn by using this website. That'd just be silly. Not to mention unconscionable, and therefore unenforcible. Google does say that certain information displayed is proprietary and may not be provided to others. any unauthorized copying or reproduction of the content in any form, or by any means, is not permitted You may not attempt to reverse engineer any output that would allow the recreation of any digital mapping data, including but not limited to any form of geocodes. you may not distribute, sell, rent, sublicense, or lease such information, in whole or in part to any third party; and you will not make such information available in whole or in part to any other user in any networked or time-sharing environment, or transfer the information in whole or in part to any computer other than the PC used to access this information Source: http://www.google.com/intl/en-us/help/legalnotices_maps.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
Hello, When I map, sometimes I add sources to my contributions. It could be a bus route relation where I may add the GPS trace I took while riding the bus as the source for the route. Other times if I name a street I may use a geotagged/geolocated photo of the street sign as a source.(thus proving that the name is the same as the one shown on the street sign) In some cases where I want to fine-adjust the location of a geotagged photo using for example the rendered OSM Mapnik images, will part of my photo(or the photo in whole) become CC-BY-SA-2.0? (this question arised after I considered making all my geotagged -in EXIF- photos public domain CC-0-1.0-Universal) Another question about GPS traces: When I contribute to OpenStreetMap with my GPS traces which I upload, do they become available under any specific license or are they just uploaded? (if they are just uploaded then they are 'All Rights Reserved' apart from giving special permission to the OSM project to use them) Regards, Niklas -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Can OSM sources be public domain CC-0(zero)?
I believe if you are the owner of the data, you can put any license you care on it and liberate it for use with OSM regardless of chosen license. As long as you state in some way that the data is free for use within OSM or something. brgds Aun Johnsen On 31/08/2010, at 18:46, Niklas Cholmkvist wrote: Hello, When I map, sometimes I add sources to my contributions. It could be a bus route relation where I may add the GPS trace I took while riding the bus as the source for the route. Other times if I name a street I may use a geotagged/geolocated photo of the street sign as a source.(thus proving that the name is the same as the one shown on the street sign) In some cases where I want to fine-adjust the location of a geotagged photo using for example the rendered OSM Mapnik images, will part of my photo(or the photo in whole) become CC-BY-SA-2.0? (this question arised after I considered making all my geotagged -in EXIF- photos public domain CC-0-1.0-Universal) Another question about GPS traces: When I contribute to OpenStreetMap with my GPS traces which I upload, do they become available under any specific license or are they just uploaded? (if they are just uploaded then they are 'All Rights Reserved' apart from giving special permission to the OSM project to use them) Regards, Niklas -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
