Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Dave F]

...Or JOSM & OSM.org could interpret & list data accurately as perceived 
in the real world.


Ta
DaveF

On 02/04/2017 20:51, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 2 Apr 2017, at 14:19, Andy Townsend  wrote:

Maybe we should ask the JOSM maintainers to add an "open in Potlatch 2" option 
to allow the full history to be seen :)


+1, and also an "open in Potlatch" for seeing deleted ways in an area.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 2 Apr 2017, at 14:19, Andy Townsend  wrote:
> 
> Maybe we should ask the JOSM maintainers to add an "open in Potlatch 2" 
> option to allow the full history to be seen :)


+1, and also an "open in Potlatch" for seeing deleted ways in an area.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Dave F]

On 02/04/2017 13:19, Andy Townsend wrote:



Maybe we should ask the JOSM maintainers to add an "open in Potlatch 
2" option to allow the full history to be seen :)


Need to start with the OSM.org listing such amendments within changesets.

DaveF

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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Andy Townsend]

On 02/04/2017 11:29, Dave F wrote:
Move a node & the way's vector is amended. Common sense tells you that 
the polygon has changed & needs to be listed as such. It appears that 
the data takes priority over the needs of the contributors. This can't 
be correct. 


When in JOSM, I've sometimes used shift-control-h to get to the website, 
and edited in Potlatch 2 from there.


Maybe we should ask the JOSM maintainers to add an "open in Potlatch 2" 
option to allow the full history to be seen :)


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Dave F]

Move a node & the way's vector is amended. Common sense tells you that 
the polygon has changed & needs to be listed as such. It appears that 
the data takes priority over the needs of the contributors. This can't 
be correct.


DaveF.

On 02/04/2017 01:05, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


On 1 Apr 2017, at 23:22, Dave F  wrote:

I'm struggling to see how this isn't a fundamentally incorrect way for OSM/JOSM etc to interpret 
the data. If nodes are moved then ways are amended & should be listed as such to avoid 
confusion & "reverting good edits made by the mapper".


Every object (node, way, relation) has its own version count. This makes sense, 
so that only changes to this object create new versions. If you move nodes, 
they will change their version. Only nodes have coordinates. Nodes and 
relations don't, their exact geometry depends on the node coordinates of their 
members. As such it is perfectly correct how osm and josm are handling this: 
same members and order and same tags: no new version.

But I agree it would seem convenient to show the effects of those node 
movements on ways and relations in some way by looking at the node positions 
(i.e. the actual geometry), e.g. as an additional option.


cheers,
Martin



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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 1 Apr 2017, at 23:22, Dave F  wrote:
> 
> I'm struggling to see how this isn't a fundamentally incorrect way for 
> OSM/JOSM etc to interpret the data. If nodes are moved then ways are amended 
> & should be listed as such to avoid confusion & "reverting good edits made by 
> the mapper".


Every object (node, way, relation) has its own version count. This makes sense, 
so that only changes to this object create new versions. If you move nodes, 
they will change their version. Only nodes have coordinates. Nodes and 
relations don't, their exact geometry depends on the node coordinates of their 
members. As such it is perfectly correct how osm and josm are handling this: 
same members and order and same tags: no new version.

But I agree it would seem convenient to show the effects of those node 
movements on ways and relations in some way by looking at the node positions 
(i.e. the actual geometry), e.g. as an additional option.


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Dave F]

Hi

>Hence while the shape my have been drastically altered, the polygon 
way is still the "same" it has been since you touched it 2 weeks ago. 
You can see that in the history of the individual nodes.
>Potlatch uses a slightly different data model where a way's nodes are 
integrated with the way, hence Potlatch "sees" a changed way.


I'm struggling to see how this isn't a fundamentally incorrect way for 
OSM/JOSM etc to interpret the data. If nodes are moved then ways are 
amended & should be listed as such to avoid confusion & "reverting good 
edits made by the mapper".



Hi,
Reverting the *correct* changeset (that contained the node edits)
would have solved the issue


Unfortunately not. In JOSM I tried two operations:
I downloaded all the data in the 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/47243857 into JOSM

Also a boundary box of the area.
In each case I attempted to revert just the affected polygon with the 
revert plugin. Neither case worked.


In P1 I selected the polygon & a similar attempted revert of the way failed.



  but probably also reverted good edits made
by the mapper. The scripts I used are on github
(woodpeck/osm-revert-scripts) however they require some Perl/Unix foo to
use correctly (or else you run the danger of creating more damage). In
this case what I did was

* create new changeset (using changeset.pl)
* download the polygon (using wget)
* extract from it a list of nodes it's using (using "grep" and "cut"
unix utilitiess)
* revert every node to whatever state it was in before touched by the
user ndm (using a "for" loop and undo.pl)


This long-winded procedure + the failed reverts clearly indicates an 
improvement in data storage/interpretation is required: Ways with moved 
nodes need to be tagged as being amended.


DaveF.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/01/2017 12:36 AM, Dave F wrote:
> But how did the edit affect *all* nodes? Why didn't a changeset revert
> solve the issue? is this 'osmtools' publicly available or is it a
> self-written tool?

Ortholgonalizing a shape will usually move all its nodes so no surprise
there. Reverting the *correct* changeset (that contained the node edits)
would have solved the issue but probably also reverted good edits made
by the mapper. The scripts I used are on github
(woodpeck/osm-revert-scripts) however they require some Perl/Unix foo to
use correctly (or else you run the danger of creating more damage). In
this case what I did was

* create new changeset (using changeset.pl)
* download the polygon (using wget)
* extract from it a list of nodes it's using (using "grep" and "cut"
unix utilitiess)
* revert every node to whatever state it was in before touched by the
user ndm (using a "for" loop and undo.pl)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Dave F]

That resolved it, thanks.

But how did the edit affect *all* nodes? Why didn't a changeset revert 
solve the issue? is this 'osmtools' publicly available or is it a 
self-written tool?


Cheers
DaveF

On 31/03/2017 23:10, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 03/31/2017 11:29 PM, Dave F wrote:

OSM's & JOSM's history shows me (DaveF) as he last amender 2 months ago.
Potlatch 1&2 show user ndm as the last one on the 28th at 22:04 although
I can't see it listed in his changesets

ndm has only moved the *nodes* that form the polygon. Hence while the
shape my have been drastically altered, the polygon way is still the
"same" it has been since you touched it 2 weeks ago.

You can see that in the history of the individual nodes.

Potlatch uses a slightly different data model where a way's nodes are
integrated with the way, hence Potlatch "sees" a changed way.

I have moved the nodes back to where they were before ndm touched them.
Could you take it on you to inform ndm and maybe find out what they
tried to achieve?

Bye
Frederik




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Re: [OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 03/31/2017 11:29 PM, Dave F wrote:
> OSM's & JOSM's history shows me (DaveF) as he last amender 2 months ago.
> Potlatch 1&2 show user ndm as the last one on the 28th at 22:04 although
> I can't see it listed in his changesets

ndm has only moved the *nodes* that form the polygon. Hence while the
shape my have been drastically altered, the polygon way is still the
"same" it has been since you touched it 2 weeks ago.

You can see that in the history of the individual nodes.

Potlatch uses a slightly different data model where a way's nodes are
integrated with the way, hence Potlatch "sees" a changed way.

I have moved the nodes back to where they were before ndm touched them.
Could you take it on you to inform ndm and maybe find out what they
tried to achieve?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk] Multi Polygon problem - could someone take a look?

[Dave F]

Hi

A polygon in a  multi-polygon relation has got corrupted & appears to be 
orthogonalized.


http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/308393090#map=14/51.5352/-2.5523

OSM's & JOSM's history shows me (DaveF) as he last amender 2 months ago.
Potlatch 1&2 show user ndm as the last one on the 28th at 22:04 although 
I can't see it listed in his changesets


I've tried reverting using P1 & josm but when I save they both say 
there's nothing to upload.


I run out of ideas. Are there any other tools which can be used to 
rectify it?


DaveF.

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