Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Frans Thamura

 Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
 to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
 the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to
 monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
 with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
 you wanted to.

can give me the glue?

how to implement it here?

F


 Best,

 -Kate

 On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .

 I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
 perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
 see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
 uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
 might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
 unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
 then don't do it.

 Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?

 --
 /emj

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Kate Chapman
Well I think there are a couple strategies.

For example encouraging students to clean-up each others mistakes
would be a good one.  You could use OWL to monitor edits in an area as
well:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OWL_(OpenStreetMap_Watch_List)

Keep right can be used to look for mistakes as well:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_right

Additionally I would suggest making sure students run the validator
plugin in JOSM before they upload their data.

Best,

-Kate

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
 to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
 the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to
 monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
 with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
 you wanted to.

 can give me the glue?

 how to implement it here?

 F


 Best,

 -Kate

 On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .

 I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
 perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
 see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
 uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
 might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
 unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
 then don't do it.

 Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?

 --
 /emj

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Frans Thamura
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote:
 Well I think there are a couple strategies.

 For example encouraging students to clean-up each others mistakes
 would be a good one.  You could use OWL to monitor edits in an area as
 well:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OWL_(OpenStreetMap_Watch_List)

 Keep right can be used to look for mistakes as well:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_right

 Additionally I would suggest making sure students run the validator
 plugin in JOSM before they upload their data.

thx for the feedback

will try to put all, we are working for a tutorial for this, our way
of tutorial, and we also use learn osm.

my experience with student

every year, they will return , we call them mentor, that will do watch
and review .

new student usually the biggest mistake and can remove data.. and
several of them, never report esp when delete an information

F



 Best,

 -Kate

 On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
 to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
 the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to
 monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
 with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
 you wanted to.

 can give me the glue?

 how to implement it here?

 F


 Best,

 -Kate

 On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .

 I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
 perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
 see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
 uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
 might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
 unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
 then don't do it.

 Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?

 --
 /emj

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread pavithran
On 7 December 2011 13:08, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote:
 Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
 to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
 the community
+ 1  . Frans could lead the community to correct all those pranks(if
done) made by the kid , provided that all kid usernames are monitored
.


 and there are tools that the teacher could use to
 monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
 with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
 you wanted to.

Grade with edit sounds nice ;)

Regards,
Pavithran


-- 
pavithran sakamuri
http://look-pavi.blogspot.com

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Frans Thamura
 + 1  . Frans could lead the community to correct all those pranks(if
 done) made by the kid , provided that all kid usernames are monitored
 .

ok. i will work on it

right now 55 students what in my bootcamp are working on OSM, using
LearnOSM material :)

i will collect their username, and will learn how to monitor their
contribution, stay tune ...

any procedure to monitor?

F



 and there are tools that the teacher could use to
 monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
 with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
 you wanted to.

 Grade with edit sounds nice ;)



 Regards,
 Pavithran


 --
 pavithran sakamuri
 http://look-pavi.blogspot.com

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Mike Dupont
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 16:39, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 right now 55 students what in my bootcamp are working on OSM, using
 LearnOSM material :)

 i will collect their username, and will learn how to monitor their
 contribution, stay tune ...

 any procedure to monitor?


 No there are no good tools, and no good methods. I asked for
 suggestions but I've never managed to get a good answer.
 See:
 http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/7077/investigating-changesets


 I know of no tools that will give you easy summaries of what a class
 room of OSM users are doing. There are tools that will tell you what
 has happend between two dates. Look at osmdiff,
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmdiff

 Here is an example report
 http://www.gary68.de/osm/qa/diff/gen0/muenchen.htm

I have to agree. The topic of change monitoring is still a big todo for OSM.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Aun Johnsen
It is not entirely correct that it is not possible to have a
distributed editing API, for example on osmosa.net, but that would
require a heavy redesign of the database, server and API parts of OSM.
Firstly to have this setup work properly one would need a clustered
database, where the database on osmosa.net to be a node of the same
database as on OSM.org. That would in most cases (though I havn't
researched into it) mean a redesign from postgreSQL to the clustered
database. Than all API calls must be redesigned to communicate to the
correct database, and significant changes in database architecture and
API would mean that most editors would need a complete brushup on the
way they commit data to OSM.

The answer as I see it is more in the line of not possible today, and
not likely to be

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread 80n
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org wrote:

 It is not entirely correct that it is not possible to have a
 distributed editing API, for example on osmosa.net, but that would
 require a heavy redesign of the database, server and API parts of OSM.


It's entirely possible.  We've been doing it, for real, for several months.

We've been taking OSM content and applying it to a separate database which
also has direct contributions. This is the opposite direction to what you
are contemplating, but the same principles apply.

All you have to do is:
1)  Generate minutely-diff files from your OSM instance, containing just
the local edits.
2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a
negative value.  This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the
element's version attribute is 1.
3) Import to OSM using your favourite load tool.
4) Resolve any edit collisions.

In practice, the risk of edit collisions is very small, and when they do
happen it is non-destructive and easy to resolve with no special skills.

You might find there is political resistance to this idea from some OSM
people, but nobody can stop you from doing it.

80n
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:
 2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a
 negative value.  This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the
 element's version attribute is 1.

Naive question here: so the OSM copy ends up with negative numbers?
Isn't that bad? Also, in any case, you end up with different IDs in
the two databases, no? Or do you then also update the ID in the source
database to be negative as well, and then reset the id counter?

Steve

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Frans Thamura
hi all

my idea about this program, because we teach contributor, and they are
start from 15 years old.

every of them must contribute to the map server, and if the map data
is not ok, or they remove the data.. i believe that will be nightmare,
if hundreds student do mistake.

but .. i think also wasting time, if we must redo what they did

www.facebook.com/meruvian  to know what will we do?

F


On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote:
 2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to a
 negative value.  This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 if the
 element's version attribute is 1.

 Naive question here: so the OSM copy ends up with negative numbers?
 Isn't that bad? Also, in any case, you end up with different IDs in
 the two databases, no? Or do you then also update the ID in the source
 database to be negative as well, and then reset the id counter?

 Steve

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Doerr

On 06/12/2011 11:11, 80n wrote:


2) Post-process the diff files to change the id of any new elements to 
a negative value.  This is simply a matter of multiplying the id by -1 
if the element's version attribute is 1.


Your local OSM then presumably then allocates the next available ID to 
the object - which I guess may be different from the ID it had in OSM? 
If so, what happens the next time the object is edited in OSM? Do you 
maintain a cross-reference between your IDs and OSM's?


--
Steve

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Frans Thamura
my osmosa.net server is dedicated

8 core with 16GB data, 100MBPs bandwidth international, 1GB bandwidth
inside indonesia

my idea right now, want to make all indonesian, which we are inside
our private internet exchange called IIX.

and i am usually strong in education program, and interest to bring
OSM to direct education.

so, kids will play around with OSM, and if we allow JOSM direct update
to OSM.org, i believe disaster will come, for a kids that naughty..

i am new in OSM infrastructure, that why i am asking to this mailing list..

the tutorial and program, has just start , but how to create good
contributor that will be another problem :)

F


On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Mike  Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 I have been thinking alot about this model.
 Frederik has already mentioned some of the real problems you will have
 with merging data.
 There is alot of work to do on this topic, we can talk about details
 if you wish. If you want to donate some server resources we can talk
 about hosting some programs I am working on.
 mike

 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 hi all


 talking about contribution model and distributed environment

 i believe this is good for OSM, esp to make OSM load in center server
 less, esp after GMAp become commercial.

 people will use it and integrator will use it.. second one
 (integrator) will bring more rush.

 the use of API will increase.

 of course for pre-contribute server will be amazing, because local
 community/chapter can work with it, and submit to the main center
 after approve and validate the content.

 sound like new architecture in peer-to-peer world?

 F

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



 --
 James Michael DuPont
 Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Erik Johansson
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 22:44, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 my osmosa.net server is dedicated

 8 core with 16GB data, 100MBPs bandwidth international, 1GB bandwidth
 inside indonesia

 my idea right now, want to make all indonesian, which we are inside
 our private internet exchange called IIX.

 and i am usually strong in education program, and interest to bring
 OSM to direct education.

 so, kids will play around with OSM, and if we allow JOSM direct update
 to OSM.org, i believe disaster will come, for a kids that naughty..


Are there any technical reasons for having a local upload server in
Indonesia, or is it only a social one?

Has edit local and then mass upload really been a good model in the
past, I think I've heard of it in Georgia(?), Kibera, Gaza etc? But
not sure.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Frans Thamura

 Are there any technical reasons for having a local upload server in
 Indonesia, or is it only a social one?

yup, we have Indonesia Internet Exchange and this server in the heart
of the IIX..

i believe 15 years ago, hongkong, singapore try to make bad thing to
this country, they sell 2-4x more expensive

so one of local ISP (indo.net) linking the ISP and create a local
Internet, and called IIX now.

and now.. all game server, local dotcom, implement on this IIX

and the ISP give it free to anyone here, so we have dedicated free, no
loop to global..

i believe got award, as the best backbone implementation in Asia
Pasific (several years ago).

last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .




 Has edit local and then mass upload really been a good model in the
 past, I think I've heard of it in Georgia(?), Kibera, Gaza etc? But
 not sure.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Frans Thamura
our server

 server  UP
 OS Ubuntu 11.10
 HDD 1T x 2 (RAID 1)
 Memory 8GB (wait the 8GB, in order)



 mesin DELL POWEREDGE 2950  lokasi rack 2051


--
Frans Thamura (曽志胜)
Shadow Master and Lead Investor
Meruvian.
Integrated Hypermedia Java Solution Provider.

Mobile: +628557888699
Blog: http://blogs.mervpolis.com/roller/flatburger (id)

FB: http://www.facebook.com/meruvian
TW: http://www.twitter.com/meruvian / @meruvian
Website: http://www.meruvian.org

We grow because we share the same belief.



On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:02 AM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:

 Are there any technical reasons for having a local upload server in
 Indonesia, or is it only a social one?

 yup, we have Indonesia Internet Exchange and this server in the heart
 of the IIX..

 i believe 15 years ago, hongkong, singapore try to make bad thing to
 this country, they sell 2-4x more expensive

 so one of local ISP (indo.net) linking the ISP and create a local
 Internet, and called IIX now.

 and now.. all game server, local dotcom, implement on this IIX

 and the ISP give it free to anyone here, so we have dedicated free, no
 loop to global..

 i believe got award, as the best backbone implementation in Asia
 Pasific (several years ago).

 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .




 Has edit local and then mass upload really been a good model in the
 past, I think I've heard of it in Georgia(?), Kibera, Gaza etc? But
 not sure.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Erik Johansson
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .

I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
then don't do it.

Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?

-- 
/emj

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-06 Thread Kate Chapman
Hi Erik, HOT has been teaching OSM all over Indonesia for the past 6
months.  I can say that the uploads aren't that slow, since people are
usually mapping in a small area.  Loading of the OSM website though is
often very slow, which in a class of new people sometimes makes it
difficult just to get them accounts.

Frans, there have been other projects working with highschool students
to map in OSM.  The problems and mistakes made can be cleaned up by
the community and there are tools that the teacher could use to
monitor who is doing what.  Since there is a user account associated
with each student you could even associate their edits with a grade if
you wanted to.

Best,

-Kate

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 23:02, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 last month, all our server move to the heart of the IIX, so all people
 will access faster because only 1 hop from ISPs .

 I understand that it will be faster to reach the server, that makes it
 perfect for local tile server and planet extracts mirror, but I don't
 see any technical/economical reasons for a local copy of the API for
 uploading changesets.. Uploads of changesets to an unloaded API server
 might be faster, but edit conflicts are going to drive you insane, so
 unless it's 10x faster and 10x cheaper to use a local upload server
 then don't do it.

 Is it really slow to upload changesets from Indonesia?

 --
 /emj

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


[OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frans Thamura
hi all

we just finished deploy the indonesia only map..

http://www.osmosa.net/map.html


we are working to make mirror for all countries

now we are testing to implement API in osmosa.net, so JOSM can update
direct to osmosa.net

but...

anyone can help, how to make osmosa.net contribute to openstreetmap.org

is this idea ok?

or we must using JSOM direct to OSM.org and copy the modification to osmosa.net


--
Frans Thamura (曽志胜)
Chief of Advisory
Meruvian.
Integrated Hypermedia Java Solution Provider.

Mobile: +628557888699
Blog: http://blogs.mervpolis.com/roller/flatburger (id)

FB: http://www.facebook.com/meruvian
TW: http://www.twitter.com/meruvian / @meruvian
Website: http://www.meruvian.org

We grow because we share the same belief.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frederik Ramm

Frans,

On 12/05/2011 07:00 PM, Frans Thamura wrote:

now we are testing to implement API in osmosa.net, so JOSM can update
direct to osmosa.net


This will not work. You could try to set up something where JOSM loads 
data from your database but when writing, JOSM always has to use the 
central server. Otherwise, if you were to accept updates on your 
database, there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM 
database, and conflicts would occur where an object is modified on your 
database and on OSM.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM
database


Sorry: no way, not to way.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frans Thamura
 This will not work. You could try to set up something where JOSM loads data
 from your database but when writing, JOSM always has to use the central
 server. Otherwise, if you were to accept updates on your database, there
 would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM database, and
 conflicts would occur where an object is modified on your database and on
 OSM.


this idea want to make my osmosa.net as our central of update, and
focus for specific country (Indonesia). and we want our work also part
of OSM.org .

so none will update to OSM.org, but the server will update to OSM.org

why this idea cannot be done?

F

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frans Thamura
 On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

 there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM
 database


 Sorry: no way, not to way.


ok,if there is no way, i will use the osm data to our data

JOSM - OSM.org - osmosa.net --- is this the way right?

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 12/05/2011 10:17 PM, Frans Thamura wrote:

this idea want to make my osmosa.net as our central of update, and
focus for specific country (Indonesia). and we want our work also part
of OSM.org .

so none will update to OSM.org, but the server will update to OSM.org

why this idea cannot be done?


The problem is edit conflicts. Your server will not be the exlusive edit 
server for Indonesia. This means someone - e.g. I - could change an 
object on the osm.org server and someone else - e.g. you - could change 
the object on the osmosa server. Later, when the osmosa server wants to 
upload its data to OSM.org, there will be an edit conflict, and the edit 
on osmosa will be lost.


This can happen in normal osm.org editing as well (we both edit the same 
object) but in that case the second uploader gets an error message and 
can solve the problem - whereas in your case the person may have closed 
his editor already and will not be reachable for conflict detection.


There are other problems as well, for example the osm.org server would 
accept all your edits under one user ID and it would not be possible to 
identify who exactly has made a change; messages from one OSM member to 
another could not cross the osm-osmosa boundary properly, and so on.


This is not something that cannot be solved but it requires a lot of 
thought and a lot of updates to the rails port before it can fly.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Mike Dupont
Frederik is right, there are no good tools to manage a distributed OSM
database, yet...
mike

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

 there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM
 database


 Sorry: no way, not to way.


 ok,if there is no way, i will use the osm data to our data

 JOSM - OSM.org - osmosa.net --- is this the way right?

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frans Thamura
understand now ;)

i think will keep the JOSM update to central OSM.org, and my server
just copy it.

i think must research how to copy the data in weekly basis, and deploy
and also generate zoom tile. - we are working on it, may be wanna
help me for this.

F



On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:23 AM, Mike  Dupont
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Frederik is right, there are no good tools to manage a distributed OSM
 database, yet...
 mike

 On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Frans Thamura fr...@meruvian.org wrote:
 On 12/05/2011 09:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

 there would be to way to reconcile them with the central OSM
 database


 Sorry: no way, not to way.


 ok,if there is no way, i will use the osm data to our data

 JOSM - OSM.org - osmosa.net --- is this the way right?

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



 --
 James Michael DuPont
 Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Jonathan Bennett
On 05/12/2011 21:35, Frans Thamura wrote:

 i think must research how to copy the data in weekly basis, 

Use Osmosis' replication features:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/Detailed_Usage_0.38#Replication_Tasks

-- 
Jonathan (Jonobennett)

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


Re: [OSM-talk] OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-05 Thread Frans Thamura
thx ;)

F



On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:53 AM, Jonathan Bennett
openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote:
 On 05/12/2011 21:35, Frans Thamura wrote:

 i think must research how to copy the data in weekly basis,

 Use Osmosis' replication features:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis/Detailed_Usage_0.38#Replication_Tasks

 --
 Jonathan (Jonobennett)

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk