Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Ian My comment was actually pointing out good mapping techniques. We are a community of mappers - go out map. Please, add data to improve the quality of the database. Dave F. On 02/11/2014 01:56, Ian Dees wrote: On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 01/11/2014 22:22, Ian Dees wrote: On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Like it, but unsure I'd give Round 8 to Steve. Deleting old data is *good* if replaced with more accurate information. Once again: this is a discussion, not a competition between Steve and Simon. There are no rounds to give. Let's stop framing it that way and move on. If you don't like it, don't read it. Go out map. That's not how a community works. We keep our community forums free of childish behavior so that real meaningful discussion can happen. Telling someone if you don't like it, don't read it doesn't solve the problem of hostile, childish, and negative behavior on the mailing list, it just repels normal people and leaves the negative people around to talk amongst themselves. Since we tell our new community members to join these mailing lists, I'd rather it be the other way around: the negative people should leave the list and go talk amongst themselves elsewhere. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Like it, but unsure I'd give Round 8 to Steve. Deleting old data is *good* if replaced with more accurate information. Once again: this is a discussion, not a competition between Steve and Simon. There are no rounds to give. Let's stop framing it that way and move on. Thanks. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
On 01/11/2014 22:22, Ian Dees wrote: On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com mailto:dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Like it, but unsure I'd give Round 8 to Steve. Deleting old data is *good* if replaced with more accurate information. Once again: this is a discussion, not a competition between Steve and Simon. There are no rounds to give. Let's stop framing it that way and move on. If you don't like it, don't read it. Go out map. My pleasure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: On 01/11/2014 22:22, Ian Dees wrote: On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: Like it, but unsure I'd give Round 8 to Steve. Deleting old data is *good* if replaced with more accurate information. Once again: this is a discussion, not a competition between Steve and Simon. There are no rounds to give. Let's stop framing it that way and move on. If you don't like it, don't read it. Go out map. That's not how a community works. We keep our community forums free of childish behavior so that real meaningful discussion can happen. Telling someone if you don't like it, don't read it doesn't solve the problem of hostile, childish, and negative behavior on the mailing list, it just repels normal people and leaves the negative people around to talk amongst themselves. Since we tell our new community members to join these mailing lists, I'd rather it be the other way around: the negative people should leave the list and go talk amongst themselves elsewhere. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
I second that. While it is true that OSM is definitely more that an addressable map, addresses are, indeed, very helpful and even necessary. For various reason, they constitute a weakness in the current project growth and emphasizing the need to survey them / negotiate import with relevant authorities is a good thing. On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 2:24 AM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The OpenAddress project is great, but we still need addresses in OSM. It would make sense to write OSM importing (and updating) software that is assumes OpenAddress as an input, rather than the raw files released by official GIS committees. By standardizing on the output of the OpenAddress project, most of the remaining work needed for an OSM address import is the same, therefor we have a chance of getting good OSM import software written and a standardized processes that can be optimized. Thought I have never seen this idea expressed on the OSM lists, I assume this is part of the long term vision for the OpenAddress project. If a commercial OSM user (or the board) wants to encourage getting addresses into OSM at a large scale, this would be the way to go. Jason On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that project. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
One concern I have as a user of, primarily, road path and POI data, is the growing size of the planet file that addressing data would cause. If we are to focus on addresses more, then I think we do need to produce planet extracts with just the basic street and POI data, so that those of us who are primarily interested in that data and do not have powerful servers can get hold of that data easily. Nick -RB tan...@gmail.com wrote: - To: Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com From: RB tan...@gmail.com Date: 31/10/2014 08:38AM Cc: Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi, OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map I second that. While it is true that OSM is definitely more that an addressable map, addresses are, indeed, very helpful and even necessary. For various reason, they constitute a weakness in the current project growth and emphasizing the need to survey them / negotiate import with relevant authorities is a good thing. On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 2:24 AM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The OpenAddress project is great, but we still need addresses in OSM. It would make sense to write OSM importing (and updating) software that is assumes OpenAddress as an input, rather than the raw files released by official GIS committees. By standardizing on the output of the OpenAddress project, most of the remaining work needed for an OSM address import is the same, therefor we have a chance of getting good OSM import software written and a standardized processes that can be optimized. Thought I have never seen this idea expressed on the OSM lists, I assume this is part of the long term vision for the OpenAddress project. If a commercial OSM user (or the board) wants to encourage getting addresses into OSM at a large scale, this would be the way to go. Jason On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that project. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
I commented on the better map vision here http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25975 . Steve hasn't actually said how he wants to fix the problem in concrete terms, given that as I write there are larger countries where there is no easy, even hit and run, solution. Simon Am 31.10.2014 11:59, schrieb Nick Whitelegg: One concern I have as a user of, primarily, road path and POI data, is the growing size of the planet file that addressing data would cause. If we are to focus on addresses more, then I think we do need to produce planet extracts with just the basic street and POI data, so that those of us who are primarily interested in that data and do not have powerful servers can get hold of that data easily. Nick -RB tan...@gmail.com wrote: - To: Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com From: RB tan...@gmail.com Date: 31/10/2014 08:38AM Cc: Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi, OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map I second that. While it is true that OSM is definitely more that an addressable map, addresses are, indeed, very helpful and even necessary. For various reason, they constitute a weakness in the current project growth and emphasizing the need to survey them / negotiate import with relevant authorities is a good thing. On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 2:24 AM, Jason Remillard remillard.ja...@gmail.com mailto:remillard.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, The OpenAddress project is great, but we still need addresses in OSM. It would make sense to write OSM importing (and updating) software that is assumes OpenAddress as an input, rather than the raw files released by official GIS committees. By standardizing on the output of the OpenAddress project, most of the remaining work needed for an OSM address import is the same, therefor we have a chance of getting good OSM import software written and a standardized processes that can be optimized. Thought I have never seen this idea expressed on the OSM lists, I assume this is part of the long term vision for the OpenAddress project. If a commercial OSM user (or the board) wants to encourage getting addresses into OSM at a large scale, this would be the way to go. Jason On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com mailto:david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that project. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com mailto:ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi mailto:jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Am 31.10.2014 12:56, schrieb Simon Poole: I commented on the better map vision here http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25975 . I really recomend to read this blog, very clear words. Thanks Simon! And I also advocate to read the newest blog from Simon: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25977 Best regards, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
+1.. Dnia 31 października 2014 21:44 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de napisał(a): Am 31.10.2014 12:56, schrieb Simon Poole: I commented on the better map vision here http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25975 .I really recomend to read this blog, very clear words. Thanks Simon! And I also advocate to read the newest blog from Simon: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25977 Best regards, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
I think it's sad that someone with the talent and skills that Simon has, spends their precious time on this. It's flattering, and as Nassim Taleb said the difference between love and hate is very very small. But, imagine what Simon could achieve by spending that time and energy on making the world better. Steve On Oct 31, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: Am 31.10.2014 12:56, schrieb Simon Poole: I commented on the better map vision here http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25975 . I really recomend to read this blog, very clear words. Thanks Simon! And I also advocate to read the newest blog from Simon: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/diary/25977 Best regards, Michael. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Steve wrote: imagine what Simon could achieve by spending that time and energy on making the world better. What, like http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SimonPoole/history or https://help.openstreetmap.org/users/2053/simonpoole/recent/ or https://code.google.com/p/osmeditor4android/source/list for example? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
http://osmfight.neis-one.org/?u1=SteveCu2=SimonPoole SCNR Steve, I know that OSM is your baby. But accept that you did a successful job. It is now time to let it go and grow up by its own way. It is similar to your own children. You wish to protect them forever. But at one time you have to realize they have grown up. You are always available for the board in case of advice needed. But please let now others step forward and develop OSM in its own unique way. Thank you for starting this great project. Now lean back and watch it grow. Without your direct influence on the board. Accept that some people have the impression that your way of parenting is too much now. Stephan On November 1, 2014 5:03:42 AM GMT+07:00, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: But, imagine what Simon could achieve by spending that time and energy on making the world better. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Hi folks. Do you think we could stop supporting the back and forth between Simon and Steve by replying to this thread? It's pretty damn childish and we've long since left the topic for the list. Thanks! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Hi, Steve Coast promised to make the best address map of the world by himself if he will not be elected into the board of the OSM Foundation: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/002713.html https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2014-October/002761.html If I don't get elected then I'll continue focusing on address data outside of OSM. It's frankly the easier route but it would be a real shame if OSM isn't the venue to make it happen. I have been thinking that perhaps that would be the best route anyway even if Mr. Coast gets elected to the board. By my own experience about the addresses in OSM they feel fuzzy and somewhat difficult to utilize outside OSM. Addresses given to building polygons are quite simple to move to centroids of the polygons for making a point layer of all the addresses but for example finding the municipality or city for the address points is tedious because administrative units are defined as relations which are also somewhat fuzzy and all too often broken. With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. -Jukka Rahkonen- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
On 29/10/2014, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: If I don't get elected then I'll continue focusing on address data outside of OSM. It's frankly the easier route but it would be a real shame if OSM isn't the venue to make it happen. The funny/sad part of that quote is that getting elected to the osmf board and deciding wether to work on addresses inside the main osm db or outside it really should be independant propositions. I can think of a few reasons why one would try to link the two, but they're all bad. For the sake of diplomacy, I'll assume that I missed the good valid reasons. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Agreed. Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that project. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Steve's better map
Hi, The OpenAddress project is great, but we still need addresses in OSM. It would make sense to write OSM importing (and updating) software that is assumes OpenAddress as an input, rather than the raw files released by official GIS committees. By standardizing on the output of the OpenAddress project, most of the remaining work needed for an OSM address import is the same, therefor we have a chance of getting good OSM import software written and a standardized processes that can be optimized. Thought I have never seen this idea expressed on the OSM lists, I assume this is part of the long term vision for the OpenAddress project. If a commercial OSM user (or the board) wants to encourage getting addresses into OSM at a large scale, this would be the way to go. Jason On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, David Fawcett david.fawc...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed. Jukka points to ideas that could enhance OpenAddresses, There is some good momentum behind OA already, let's get together and improve that project. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@latuviitta.fi wrote: With a dedicated database and tools for addresses the route could really be easier and faster and I would not feel ashamed at all while importing addresses from this master address database into OSM later. Such a thing already exists! :) I would love to have you contribute to OpenAddresses: http://openaddresses.io/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
