Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
Alex L. Mauer wrote: (I might not know offhand what psv_directions=no is, since psv is not a common term around here.[..]) Nor, I think, would most from the US. When I first looked at the description (public service vehicle) my first thought was emergency vehicle (police, fire, ambulance). IMHO, bus or something derived from public transit (ptv?) would make more sense, both within and outside the UK. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
I fully agree that PSV is not the best term to use. I had to look for its meaning also. More generally speaking, there are many tags that should be adapted depending on countries. But that is not really my point. My point is that I need to tag a street which is one-way for cars, and 2-ways for buses. Changing the whole tagging system, with a kind of object oriented method, or changing the name of PSV, are surely good ideas, but my question is: do you think my need is a frequent one? If yes, do you think the way I try to address is is relevant? If I get a double YES, we may validate the tag. And then, if it is decided in another thread, we may replace PSV by Bus automatically for all tags, and we may change the tagging system. But I would be sad if the modification I NEED is rejected just because the tagging system is not the best one... Thanks - Mail Original - De: Alex S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] À: talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé: Vendredi 27 Juin 2008 13:14:38 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions) Alex L. Mauer wrote: (I might not know offhand what psv_directions=no is, since psv is not a common term around here.[..]) Nor, I think, would most from the US. When I first looked at the description (public service vehicle) my first thought was emergency vehicle (police, fire, ambulance). IMHO, bus or something derived from public transit (ptv?) would make more sense, both within and outside the UK. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
On my brainstorming page to improve the access restrictions scheme at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Access_restrictions I was more thinking about a access=twoway or similar tag, so what you want to do becomes: oneway=yes; psv=twoway Greetings Ben On Friday 27 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote: I fully agree that PSV is not the best term to use. I had to look for its meaning also. More generally speaking, there are many tags that should be adapted depending on countries. But that is not really my point. My point is that I need to tag a street which is one-way for cars, and 2-ways for buses. Changing the whole tagging system, with a kind of object oriented method, or changing the name of PSV, are surely good ideas, but my question is: do you think my need is a frequent one? If yes, do you think the way I try to address is is relevant? If I get a double YES, we may validate the tag. And then, if it is decided in another thread, we may replace PSV by Bus automatically for all tags, and we may change the tagging system. But I would be sad if the modification I NEED is rejected just because the tagging system is not the best one... Thanks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
There's still this proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/access:_name_space which will solve your problem with access:psv:oneway=no Ben On Thursday 26 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote: Hello, When mapping, I noticed numerous one-way streets for cars have a specific lane in the opposite direction for buses. The only official way to enter this in OSM is to create two one-way ways, one for everyone and the other restricted to buses. So I proposed adding a PSV_direction tag (which may be merged with the psv tag, which has some unuseful values). The tag would be: psv_direction The value would be : - both - direct_only (which is the direction of the Way, and may be valid even if cars are authorized in both directions, but busses only in one direction) - opposite_only - no (if buses are forbidden in both directions) I'm expecting your Comments with pleasure! Best, Charlie Echo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
The proposal you mention is a radical change in the way we would tag. We would move from tag=value to tag:subtag:subtag=value. In your example, access:psv:oneway=no could also be access:oneway:psv=no or even psv:access:oneway=no with the same spirit (I mean we can decide to put access first, but the next subtags should be all defined and ordered, or we would have to tolerate mis-order) - Mail Original - De: Ben Laenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] À: talk@openstreetmap.org Cc: Charlie Echo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé: Jeudi 26 Juin 2008 14:06:20 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions) There's still this proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/access:_name_space which will solve your problem with access:psv:oneway=no Ben On Thursday 26 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote: Hello, When mapping, I noticed numerous one-way streets for cars have a specific lane in the opposite direction for buses. The only official way to enter this in OSM is to create two one-way ways, one for everyone and the other restricted to buses. So I proposed adding a PSV_direction tag (which may be merged with the psv tag, which has some unuseful values). The tag would be: psv_direction The value would be : - both - direct_only (which is the direction of the Way, and may be valid even if cars are authorized in both directions, but busses only in one direction) - opposite_only - no (if buses are forbidden in both directions) I'm expecting your Comments with pleasure! Best, Charlie Echo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
On Thursday 26 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote: The proposal you mention is a radical change in the way we would tag. We would move from tag=value to tag:subtag:subtag=value. Sure, it's very different to current tagging, but we need to think about more complex access restrictions. The proposal isn't perfect either, one can't for example say that goods vehicles over 3.5 tons are not allowed except for loading and unloading (a restriction that appears a lot over here). The problem in that restriction being that it depends on more than one property: goods vehicles (buses are always allowed for example), maximum weight 3.5 tons, and an exception for loading and unloading its goods in the area where the restriction applies. Or what about restrictions applying one direction only, or restrictions applying to only one lane in a three lane road? The ordering problems you mention is another thing. I also can see lots of ambiguity issues coming up. Nevertheless, instead of adding new tags like psv_directions, and after that probably moped_directions, bus_directions, tram_directions, motorcycle_directions etc, we should think about a much better tagging scheme for this. The proposal I mentioned is a step towards something more powerful, but not quite there yet. So we might start thinking about this once before quickly patching current problems with tags like psv_directions :-) Greetings Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions)
On the one side, I agree that tagging should be more ellaborate. On the other side, I just imagine few exceptions, and few categories of vehicles. For instance, in France, when I write psv, I mean buses, cabs, bicycles, because they are all allowed on the same way, and everyone knows it. In fact, for the vast majority of ways, everyone is allowed. So we may tolerate tricky tagging for tricky events. So we might start thinking about this once before quickly patching current problems with tags like psv_directions :-) I suppose when we have defined a new tagging reference, a small script will be run on the database to modify automatically all ways, and to raise flags if there is a need of manual intervention, which should be rare. (such a script should be run to replace the value 1 or true by yes when relevant, and so on...) My point is to add information in the system in a structured way, even if too complex. As the need of taging this opposite bus lane is quite frequent where I live (Paris, France), I MUST find a solution quickly. My current best approach is to create two ways, one for cars one-way, and the other two-way for buses. It's stupid, and splitting one way in two is a nonsense that will be hard to modify back, so I really want to have it fixed! Cheers, - Mail Original - De: Ben Laenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] À: talk@openstreetmap.org Cc: Charlie Echo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé: Jeudi 26 Juin 2008 16:08:36 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (PSV_directions) On Thursday 26 June 2008, Charlie Echo wrote: The proposal you mention is a radical change in the way we would tag. We would move from tag=value to tag:subtag:subtag=value. Sure, it's very different to current tagging, but we need to think about more complex access restrictions. The proposal isn't perfect either, one can't for example say that goods vehicles over 3.5 tons are not allowed except for loading and unloading (a restriction that appears a lot over here). The problem in that restriction being that it depends on more than one property: goods vehicles (buses are always allowed for example), maximum weight 3.5 tons, and an exception for loading and unloading its goods in the area where the restriction applies. Or what about restrictions applying one direction only, or restrictions applying to only one lane in a three lane road? The ordering problems you mention is another thing. I also can see lots of ambiguity issues coming up. Nevertheless, instead of adding new tags like psv_directions, and after that probably moped_directions, bus_directions, tram_directions, motorcycle_directions etc, we should think about a much better tagging scheme for this. The proposal I mentioned is a step towards something more powerful, but not quite there yet. So we might start thinking about this once before quickly patching current problems with tags like psv_directions :-) Greetings Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
