Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:49:48 +0100
"Dave F."  wrote:

> On 08/09/2015 00:07, Lester Caine wrote:
> > On 07/09/15 23:16, Dave F. wrote:
> >> I'm not sure there's been a discussion as you've mostly ignored the
> >> basic comment made - it it's deleted in the real world it gets
> >> deleted in OSM.
> > If there is still a trace of anything related to something being
> > deleted ... it gets it's tags modified. You only remove it
> > completely when/if it is replaced by an alternate structure. A
> > forest may well get felled for timber, become open land until a new
> > crop is finally established. Just as in some cases tracks have been
> > lifted on a viaduct or cutting but the railway use for that land is
> > still documented.
> 
> I don't believe anyone's advocating the removal of existing entities.
> In your viaduct case above, keep the viaduct entity, remove the 
> railway=abandoned tag, use the historical tag to describe the past of 
> the viaduct (which exists) but don't use it to describe the railway 
> (which doesn't).

Note that it is not necessary to use "historical tag" for existing
viaduct. man_made=bridge seems to fit well.

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[Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

[Marián Kyral]

Ahoj,
není tady nějaký odborník na iD, který by poradil nováčkovi na fóru?

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=37875

Díky,
Marián
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Re: [Talk-at] Busse temporär "deaktivieren"

[Stefan Tauner]

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 03:49:48 +0200
Kevin Kofler  wrote:

> Friedrich Volkmann wrote:
> > Immer wieder löschen und neu anlegen halte ich für keine gute Idee, weil
> > ja die Anwender nicht immer auf die aktuellen Daten zugreifen, sondern da
> > gibt es einen zeitlichen Versatz sowie eine Periode, wie oft die
> > Aktualisierung stattfindet. Wenn die zufällig bei ½ Jahr liegt, kann es
> > mit etwas Pech passieren, dass beim Anwender der Bus ausgerechnet in der
> > Bädersaison fehlt und im Winterhalbjahr wieder auftaucht.
> 
> Auch ein fieses Beispiel ist übrigens der 39A. Da fahren im Sommer einige 
> Kurse (einer pro Stunde tagsüber) von der normalen Endstation Sievering 
> weiter über die Agnesgasse (Haltestelle Ährengrubenweg) zur Haltestelle 
> Agnesgasse am Kreisverkehr (der als Schleife dient). Im Winterfahrplan 
> verschwinden diese Kurse dann kommentarlos vom Fahrplan, um im 
> Sommerfahrplan dann wieder aufzutauchen. (Anfangs habe ich das System gar 
> nicht überrissen.) Der Streckenabschnitt ist in der OSM als ganz normaler 
> Teil des 39A getaggt, was selbst im Sommer fragwürdig ist (weil ja fast alle 
> Kurse nur bis Sievering geführt werden), im Winter überhaupt falsch. Aber 
> wie man es besser machen könnte (außer, den Abschnitt gar nicht zu taggen, 
> was dann auch wieder falsch wäre, weil sich ja im Sommer doch der eine oder 
> andere 39A planmäßig dorthin "verirrt"), weiß ich auch nicht. (Eine eigene 
> Relation für den Abschnitt Sievering <-> Agnesgasse, mit ref="(39A)"? Klingt 
> ein bißchen nach Hack…)

Dieses Problem ist sicher nicht Wien-spezifisch. In diesem Fall besteht
es aus 2 Teilproblemen. 1. dass der Teil seasonal ist und 2. dass
selbst wenn er grundsätzlich fährt das nur selten der Fall ist. Das
betrifft aber viele Teil-Strecken... für die gibt's auch noch keine
Lösung (globale) oder? Irgendetwas wie intermittent=yes wäre doch ganz
sinnvoll... wir können oder wollen Fahrpläne ja nicht komplett
nachbauen(?).

-- 
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Re: [Talk-it] santelle, croci, crocefissi, ecc.

[Volker Schmidt]

Ecco la mia mappatura
Nota: non utilizzo mai denominazione=catholic perché la maggior parte di
questi oggetti è anche considerato da altre denominazioni christiane.


>
> historic=wayside_cross
>

man_made=cross
(mi sembra più simile a una croce in vetta a una montagna)
Un altro esempio di questo tipo:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Sterzing-Vipiteno_and_Elzenbaumer_Wetterkreuz.JPG/1024px-Sterzing-Vipiteno_and_Elzenbaumer_Wetterkreuz.JPG


>
> 
> tourism=artwork
> artwork_type=statue
> denomination=catholic
> religion=christian
>

historic=wayside_shrine
religion=christian


>
> 
>
> (piccola croce a memoria di un defunto)
> historic=memorial
>

historic=memorial

>
> 
> historic=memorial (perché sempre a memoria di un defunto??)
>
> 
> tourism=artwork
> artwork_type=statue
> denomination=catholic
> religion=christian
>

historic=wayside_shrine
religion=christian

>
> 
> historic=wayside_shrine
> denomination=catholic
> religion=christian
>

historic=wayside_cross
religion=christian
(perché sulla tua foto sembra un crocefisso)

>
> 
> (crocefisso con "capannina" di copertura)
> historic=wayside_cross
> denomination=catholic
> religion=christian
>

historic=wayside_cross
religion=christian
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 01:49 schrieb Dave F. :
> 
> I don't believe anyone's advocating the removal of existing entities.
> In your viaduct case above, keep the viaduct entity, remove the 
> railway=abandoned tag, use the historical tag to describe the past of the 
> viaduct (which exists) but don't use it to describe the railway (which 
> doesn't).


I believe you are oversimplifying things by just looking at the tracks and if 
they are there it is some kind of railway and in absence of tracks it has 
nothing more to do with railway.

First of all, we don't currently know a tag for a viaduct entity in OSM, we 
only have a viaduct property for railway and highway entities (bridge=viaduct) 
to denote that they are on a viaduct.

Even if we "had" an established way to tag viaducts independently from ways 
running over them, we would still likely want to tag whether the viaduct was 
built for roads or for railway.
IMHO railway=abandoned fits into this idea, and solves these issues.

Before continuing this discussion we should define the possible states we want 
to map/recognize, i.e. disused, abandoned, (dismantled, razed) and agree on 
their meaning.
People continue to write about railway=abandoned as if it described former 
railways with no traces whatsoever left, while to others it means traces are 
left.


cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] santelle, croci, crocefissi, ecc.

[demon.box]

voschix wrote
> Scusa, non sono io a decidere
> :-)
> Ho solo scritto come avrei fatto io.
> Direi di aspettare altre reazioni.

Certo ;-) per carità. Scusami te, volevo soltanto capire bene il tuo
orientamento.
Grazie!
--enrico





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Re: [Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

[Martin Ždila]

Odborníci nepoužívaju iD ale JOSM ;-)

2015-09-08 8:15 GMT+02:00 Marián Kyral :

> Ahoj,
> není tady nějaký odborník na iD, který by poradil nováčkovi na fóru?
>
> http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=37875
>
> Díky,
> Marián
>
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>


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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Warin]

On 8/09/2015 7:00 PM, Fabian Schmidt wrote:


On 09/08/2015 12:16 AM, Dave F. wrote:


I fail to understand why railways are singled out as a special case. If
roads, buildings or woods get demolished, they get deleted.


please have a look at the tag definition in the wiki: "where the rails 
have been removed but the route is still visible in some way" [1]


Building railway lines leads to many cuttings, embankments and 
bridges, which e.g. predestines abandoned railway lines to convert 
them into cycleways. This was frequently done and discussed for future 
projects especially in mountaineous regions where I live.




Buildings that are in ruin have the tag ruin=yes 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ruins


Perhaps this can be added to the railways' condition list ... disused, 
abandoned, ruins, raised ?


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Re: [Talk-it] problema svolte - casello Piovene-Rocchette

[dvdzero]

Il problema rimane.
A me quella relazione sembra giusta.

Boh ... io non capisco, se qualcuno riesce può sistemare?

Grazie
Davide



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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On 7 Sep 2015 15:31:02 -
Russ Nelson  wrote:

> We should map everything that doesn't move, and maybe a few things
> that do.

And completely destroyed railways are fitting neither category as
things that are not existing neither move nor do not move.

In addition - there are things that doesn't move and should not be
mapped. And I am not aware about any moving things that should be moved
(unless someone considers windmills, trees, aerialways etc to be
moving).

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Re: [Talk-at] Busse temporär "deaktivieren"

[Robin Däneke]

 
> Auch ein fieses Beispiel ist übrigens der 39A. Da fahren im Sommer einige 
> Kurse (einer pro Stunde tagsüber) von der normalen Endstation Sievering 
> weiter über die Agnesgasse (Haltestelle Ährengrubenweg) zur Haltestelle 
> Agnesgasse am Kreisverkehr (der als Schleife dient). Im Winterfahrplan 
> verschwinden diese Kurse dann kommentarlos vom Fahrplan, um im 
> Sommerfahrplan dann wieder aufzutauchen. (Anfangs habe ich das System gar 
> nicht überrissen.) Der Streckenabschnitt ist in der OSM als ganz normaler 
> Teil des 39A getaggt, was selbst im Sommer fragwürdig ist (weil ja fast alle 
> Kurse nur bis Sievering geführt werden), im Winter überhaupt falsch. Aber 
> wie man es besser machen könnte (außer, den Abschnitt gar nicht zu taggen, 
> was dann auch wieder falsch wäre, weil sich ja im Sommer doch der eine oder 
> andere 39A planmäßig dorthin "verirrt"), weiß ich auch nicht. (Eine eigene 
> Relation für den Abschnitt Sievering <-> Agnesgasse, mit ref="(39A)"? Klingt 
> ein bißchen nach Hack…)
> 
> Kevin Kofler

Laut einem Aushang an der Station Agnesgasse der 39A Station soll der Bus ab 
November das ganze Jahr im 30 Minuten-Takt fahren. Da wird das Problem also 
bald weg sein.Nur die Bäderbusse sind dann noch ein Problem. Ich habe ohnehin 
vor bei allen Linien in den Relationen die ooening_hours zu taggen. Da kann man 
dann ja dann Monate festlehgen, was aber dann wohl bei kaum einer Linie mehr 
nötig sein wird... Bei den Bäderbussen werde ich das gleich machen... 
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Marco De Nadai]

ho trovato grosse mancanze anche a Roma (es fiumicino quasi non esiste come
palazzi o trastevere nn è finito), Napoli, Firenze. Speravo che i dati
degli edifici fossero più completi in OSM :(


Per Torino: Al momento l'unico modo da me trovato è quello da WMS server
del catasto della Regione Piemonte. Questo presuppone disegnarci sopra:
nessun dato da importare di vostra conoscenza?

Grazie

Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 06:14, Marco Bodrato 
ha scritto:

> Ciao,
>
> Il Mar, 8 Settembre 2015 1:30 am, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:
> > Il 07/set/2015 16:45, "Marco De Nadai"  ha scritto:
>
> >> vorrei far notare che in quest'area torinese
>
> >> c'è un buco in cui non sono stati mappati gli edifici.
> >> Normale? Mi sembra molto strano che solo li non ci siano...
>
> > Si direi normale, in pieno spirito OSM
>
> Anche perché purtroppo di zone di Torino nelle quali nessuno ha ancora
> inserito tutti gli edifici, ce ne sono parecchie...
>
> Buon lavoro...
> m
>
> --
> http://bodrato.it/papers/
>
>
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E-mail: dena...@fbk.eu
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Re: [Talk-it] santelle, croci, crocefissi, ecc.

[Volker Schmidt]

Scusa, non sono io a decidere
:-)
Ho solo scritto come avrei fatto io.
Direi di aspettare altre reazioni.

2015-09-08 9:58 GMT+02:00 demon.box :

> voschix wrote
> > historic=wayside_cross
> > religion=christian
> > (perché sulla tua foto sembra un crocefisso)
>
> ...sì c'è un crocefisso.
>
> Quindi allora la distinzione è, se crocefisso (cioè con Gesù)
> historic=wayside_cross
>
> Mentre TUTTE le altre croci (senza Gesù e non di vetta) sono man_made=cross
> ? Anche se hanno un inequivocabile e marcato significato religioso, ad
> esempio le croci di una via crucis?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Lester Caine]

On 08/09/15 07:01, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>> I don't believe anyone's advocating the removal of existing entities.
>> > In your viaduct case above, keep the viaduct entity, remove the 
>> > railway=abandoned tag, use the historical tag to describe the past of 
>> > the viaduct (which exists) but don't use it to describe the railway 
>> > (which doesn't).
> Note that it is not necessary to use "historical tag" for existing
> viaduct. man_made=bridge seems to fit well.

Since I live within quarter of a mile of a section of 'abandoned
railway' which used to extend several miles south and still extends
several miles north I have a perfect example of one which perhaps needs
re-tagging. There are still bridges and cuttings and while it is still
essentially 'private property' some sections have unofficial footpaths.
The section south of Broadway now has a new track (where it was dual
track originally) and a growing new station. There is an option to
continue north which would allow the preserved line to reconnect with
the existing main line. Given the problems the preserved line has had
with land slippage and having to replace 100+ year old bridges it may
never happen, but the route is protected currently but 'abandoned'. Now
if rendering changes do I need to re-tag this 'dismantled' to maintain
the current map, or is this another reason for abandoning the main map
service and providing an alternative?

While my point about the historic aspect has been dropped, this line is
also a good example of the managing of current and historic material
since the main route of the line is preserved, the goods yard at a local
army base is now being built over with a new housing development, and
while it currently exists on the ground it will slowly succumb to
progress and I have no problem with the CURRENT view of the data only
showing the elements that remain, the history is a documented fact which
just needs a slightly different style of management. It's NOT actually
been removed from the database since it is still fully documented in the
change log, so all we are talking about is semantics and allowing a view
of the data that can be rendered using the existing tools.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
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Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-at] Gleisbaustelle Hütteldorf (49)

[Robin Däneke]

Danke für die Nachricht. Werde den N49 wieder anpassen. MfGRobinD   
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Re: [Talk-it] santelle, croci, crocefissi, ecc.

[demon.box]

voschix wrote
> historic=wayside_cross
> religion=christian
> (perché sulla tua foto sembra un crocefisso)

...sì c'è un crocefisso.

Quindi allora la distinzione è, se crocefisso (cioè con Gesù)
historic=wayside_cross

Mentre TUTTE le altre croci (senza Gesù e non di vetta) sono man_made=cross
? Anche se hanno un inequivocabile e marcato significato religioso, ad
esempio le croci di una via crucis?





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Re: [Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní zpráva --
Od: Martin Ždila 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 8. 9. 2015 9:46:41
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

"

Odborníci nepoužívaju iD ale JOSM ;-)

"



To tady asi většina, ale přesto může existovat i odborník na iD :-D




Co jsem tak hledal, tak http://learnosm.org/en/beginner/id-editor/ o práci s
relacemi nic nepíše a po lehkém průzkumu možností iD editoru to vypadá, že 
umožňuje pouze práci stylem jeden objekt, jedna akce. Označit více cest jde,
ale jediné co s tím jde dělat, je spojit je do jedné čáry.




Takže asi nic.


Marián






"





2015-09-08 8:15 GMT+02:00 Marián Kyral :
"
Ahoj,
není tady nějaký odborník na iD, který by poradil nováčkovi na fóru?

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=37875
(http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=37875)

Díky,
Marián


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"





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[Talk-cat] Hangout per a preparar jornada

[Carlos Sánchez]

Que us sembla quedar demà a les 17:00 per a fer un Hangout (G+). Així podem
agilitzar el tema dels preparatius per al 3 d'octubre.

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[Talk-es] consulta sobre uso

[Adrián Brañas Castro]

Hola:

Estamos desarrollando una aplicación web para la gestión de tareas y
gestión de posicionamiento de trabajadores de una empresa, de algún modo
relacionados con el transporte o viajes: comerciales, paquetería,
transporte de mercancías, etc. No necesitaríamos la instalación de ningún
dispositivo GPS en el medio de transporte del trabajador, si no que a
través de una aplicación móvil (Android e iOS) instalada en sus
smart-phones, seríamos capaces de establecer la comunicación necesaria
entre la web-app y los trabajadores.

Tenemos un capital muy limitado y estamos valorando el uso de Google Maps
for Work, Bing, Nokia, Open Street Maps...

Tengo un par de preguntas:
1) ¿Podríamos utilizar las APIs de OSM y comercializar nuestro software?
¿Tiene coste alguno? ¿Lo permite la licencia?
2) ¿Hay APIs para la web-app y para móviles?

Muchísimas gracias de antemano:
Adrián.
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Simone Cortesi]

2015-09-08 10:15 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> > ho trovato grosse mancanze anche a Roma (es fiumicino quasi non esiste
> come palazzi o trastevere nn è finito), Napoli, Firenze. Speravo che i dati
> degli edifici fossero più completi in OSM :(
>
> è un lavoro in corso. Gli edifici sono dove qualcuno gli ha disegnato.


e CMQ, ricordiamo sempre, che gli import vanno fatti con ESTREMA CAUTELA,
non sono operazioni da prendere sottogamba.

vanno documentati e discussi prima di essere avviati.


-- 
-S
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Re: [Talk-it] OSMIT 2015

[Michele Mondelli]

Buongiorno a tutti.

Proporrei di fare una nuova riunione per discutere dell'iniziativa.
Vi riporto gli aggiornamenti per quanto riguarda gli sponsor istituzionali
e gli spazi messi a disposizione.

Ho creato un doodle per raccogliere le vostre disponibilità:
http://doodle.com/poll/wb9dyim4nvwratdi .

Mi raccomando, partecipate numerosi!


A presto,

Il giorno 12 agosto 2015 16:47, Marcello  ha scritto:

> Io conto di partecipare, a meno di impegni imprevisti e non prorogabili.
> Ho visto che è previsto anche un evento serale , riguardando il thread non
> mi sembra di aver visto nulla, di cosa si tratta?
>
> Per quanto riguarda gli argomenti da trattare ho visto che un argomento
> inserito nel programma era lo 'stato della mappa', siccome avevo notato la
> pagina wiki dell'Umbria praticamente vuota da dicembre scorso mi sono messo
> ad arricchirla, in particolar modo ho lavorato sullo stato della mappa (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Umbria_Stato), prendendo spunto dalle
> statistiche che erano sul sito GFOSS ma che non vengono più aggiornate da
> settembre 2013. Se non c'è di meglio e può interessare qualcuno posso dire
> qualcosa a proposito.
>
> Ciao
> Marcello
>
> Il 12/08/2015 09:44, Michele Mondelli ha scritto:
>
> Salve a tutti.
>
> Riporto agli onori della cronaca la discussione su OSMit 2015.
>
> Ho notato che su http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:OSMit2015 siamo
> ancora segnati in due per l'evento!
> Se ci sono persone che sanno di venire e soprattutto di poter contribuire
> con un talk o che hanno una proposta su cosa fare a livello pratico durante
> OSMit, segnatevi!
> Inutile che vi dica che riuscire a decidere il prima possibile il
> programma dell'evento ci permette di pubblicizzarlo al meglio.
>
> Vi dico intanto che all'università si sono resi disponibili ad organizzare
> iniziative con gli studenti, ed a partecipare attivamente all'iniziativa.
> Ovviamente adesso sono tutti in vacanza, ma subito a fine agosto li
> risento. Vorrei potergli dare maggiori informazioni su come sarà
> strutturato l'evento, di cosa si parlerà,
> cosa faremo, ecc.
>
> .
>
>
> .
> --
> *Michele Mondelli*
>
>
>
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>


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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Warin]

On 8/09/2015 6:07 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


sent from a phone


Am 08.09.2015 um 01:49 schrieb Dave F. :

I don't believe anyone's advocating the removal of existing entities.
In your viaduct case above, keep the viaduct entity, remove the 
railway=abandoned tag, use the historical tag to describe the past of the 
viaduct (which exists) but don't use it to describe the railway (which doesn't).


I believe you are oversimplifying things by just looking at the tracks and if 
they are there it is some kind of railway and in absence of tracks it has 
nothing more to do with railway.

First of all, we don't currently know a tag for a viaduct entity in OSM, we 
only have a viaduct property for railway and highway entities (bridge=viaduct) 
to denote that they are on a viaduct.


The tag bridge=viaduct is not restricted to railways and highways!

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bridge%3Dviaduct

Viaducts are also used for waterways... ! http://www.chirk.com/aqueduct.html



Even if we "had" an established way to tag viaducts independently from ways 
running over them,


'We' do. Over 43,000 uses of it.


we would still likely want to tag whether the viaduct was built for roads or 
for railway.
IMHO railway=abandoned fits into this idea, and solves these issues.


There are also 'abandoned', 'disused' and 'raised' viaducts ...



Before continuing this discussion we should define the possible states we want 
to map/recognize, i.e. disused, abandoned, (dismantled, razed) and agree on 
their meaning.
People continue to write about railway=abandoned as if it described former 
railways with no traces whatsoever left, while to others it means traces are 
left.



To me the states of the thing follow this order

disused ... use has stopped but everything is still in place

abandoned ... no maintenance has been performed for quite some time, possibly 
some infrastructure has been remove. Vegetation has started growing in a way 
that would significantly impede use.

raised ... all worthwhile material has been removed. There may still be traces 
of its past use.


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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Stefano]

Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 09:53, Marco De Nadai  ha
scritto:

> ho trovato grosse mancanze anche a Roma (es fiumicino quasi non esiste
> come palazzi o trastevere nn è finito), Napoli, Firenze. Speravo che i dati
> degli edifici fossero più completi in OSM :(
>

>
> Per Torino: Al momento l'unico modo da me trovato è quello da WMS server
> del catasto della Regione Piemonte. Questo presuppone disegnarci sopra:
> nessun dato da importare di vostra conoscenza?
>

http://www.comune.torino.it/geoportale/ser_professionali_2.htm

Il link allo shapefile non lo ritrovo, ma dal WMS basta cambiare in WFS il
protocollo ed ottieni lo shapefile :-)

Il problema è che nessuno ci si è mai messo e chi ci ha provato è stato
demotivato o bloccato dai vari burocrati.

La zona di San Salvario è stata disegnata dal WMS (o importata, non ricordo
esattamente) il mese prima di OSMit 2012.


> Grazie
>


Ciao,
Stefano


>
> Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 06:14, Marco Bodrato 
> ha scritto:
>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> Il Mar, 8 Settembre 2015 1:30 am, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:
>> > Il 07/set/2015 16:45, "Marco De Nadai"  ha scritto:
>>
>> >> vorrei far notare che in quest'area torinese
>>
>> >> c'è un buco in cui non sono stati mappati gli edifici.
>> >> Normale? Mi sembra molto strano che solo li non ci siano...
>>
>> > Si direi normale, in pieno spirito OSM
>>
>> Anche perché purtroppo di zone di Torino nelle quali nessuno ha ancora
>> inserito tutti gli edifici, ce ne sono parecchie...
>>
>> Buon lavoro...
>> m
>>
>> --
>> http://bodrato.it/papers/
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Marco De Nadai*
> *Assistant Researcher at Fondazione Bruno Kessler (FBK) - *
> *MobS Unit*
> Via Sommarive, 18 - Povo
> 38123 Trento (TN)
>
> E-mail: dena...@fbk.eu
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 09:53 schrieb Marco De Nadai :
> 
> ho trovato grosse mancanze anche a Roma (es fiumicino quasi non esiste come 
> palazzi o trastevere nn è finito), Napoli, Firenze. Speravo che i dati degli 
> edifici fossero più completi in OSM :(



è un lavoro in corso. Gli edifici sono dove qualcuno gli ha disegnato.


ciao 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Fabian Schmidt]

On 09/08/2015 12:16 AM, Dave F. wrote:


I fail to understand why railways are singled out as a special case. If
roads, buildings or woods get demolished, they get deleted.


please have a look at the tag definition in the wiki: "where the rails 
have been removed but the route is still visible in some way" [1]


Building railway lines leads to many cuttings, embankments and bridges, 
which e.g. predestines abandoned railway lines to convert them into 
cycleways. This was frequently done and discussed for future projects 
especially in mountaineous regions where I live.



Fabian.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Arailway%3Dabandoned


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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 14:26:59 +0200
Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 
> 
> sent from a phone
> 
> > Am 08.09.2015 um 13:58 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny
> > :
> > 
> > Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean with "historical data", where do you draw the line?
> What about the old_name tags, do you advocate to remove them?

Certainly not all - in many situations old names are still widely used.

In that case I have no clear opinion - I have limited experience
with mapping and using names. I would be careful and avoid removing
anything.


But I would not add old_name that is currently completely unused.

BTW, old_name is currently not described properly on wiki - is it even
supposed to be used for names that are no longer used? What is the
tagging practise?

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 10:00, Fabian Schmidt wrote:


On 09/08/2015 12:16 AM, Dave F. wrote:


I fail to understand why railways are singled out as a special case. If
roads, buildings or woods get demolished, they get deleted.


please have a look at the tag definition in the wiki: "where the rails 
have been removed but the route is still visible in some way" [1]


Building railway lines leads to many cuttings, embankments and bridges, 


Then map those entities, but not the railway if it doesn't exist...

which e.g. predestines abandoned railway lines to convert them into 
cycleways. 


...and when it gets converted to a cycleway, map it as such. Map what 
exists & is visible on the ground.



Cheers
Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 13:58 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny :
> 
> Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.



what do you mean with "historical data", where do you draw the line? What about 
the old_name tags, do you advocate to remove them?

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] problema svolte - casello Piovene-Rocchette

[dvdzero]

voschix wrote
> Sembra apposto anche formalmente, utilizzando il plugin "graphview" JOSM.
> Potrebbe trattarsi di un errore della routing engine.
> 
> Volker

mi veniene da pensare così anche a me ma il problema lo fa sia osrm che
mapquest



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Re: [Talk-cz] Pomoc se clankem pro casopis

[Pavel Zbytovský]

Díky za tipy.

Seznam na wiki znám, taky ho asi odkážu. Ovšem předvýběr s osobní
zkušeností je důležitější.

Pavel

út 8. 9. 2015 v 11:10 odesílatel Petr Schönmann 
napsal:

> Co tenhle seznam ?
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software
>
> Dne 7. září 2015 21:20  napsal(a):
>
> Zdar, dovolil bych si upozornit na aplikaci Triposo (Android, iPhone),
>> která v podstatě funguje jako turistický průvodce. OSM využívá jednak pro
>> (převážně městské) mapy, a jednak jako jeden ze zdrojů dat pro různé POI
>> (čili OSM nemusí být jen mapa).
>> Honza
>>
>> -- Původní zpráva --
>> Od: Pavel Zbytovský 
>> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
>> Datum: 7. 9. 2015 20:54:48
>> Předmět: [Talk-cz] Pomoc se clankem pro casopis
>>
>> Zdravím,
>>
>> chtěl bych poprosit, jestli byste mi mohli poslat tip na software, který
>> používáte jako cestovatelé s krátkým popisem. (Zejména nějaký windows
>> phoneista?)
>>
>> Potkal jsem se nedávno s šéfredaktorem časopisu Svět Outdooru a dohodli
>> jsme se, že bychom do podzimního čísla uvedli článek pro širokou
>> cestovatelskou veřejnost.
>>
>> Zatím je článek v tomto stavu [1] - klidně i připisujte/komentujte přímo
>> do gdocs, o autorství se rád podělím :) Deadline na článek je pozítří.
>>
>> Díky
>> Pavel Zbytovský
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_zTKBp2aTgo0lqSHc2N_wKlNpkFA1coznZK6k87PHFg/edit#
>>
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Re: [Talk-cl] ¿Un practicante TI para OSMChile?

[Cristián Serpell]

Es una muy buena idea. Yo preguntaba si existe una lista de esos proyectos
interesantes que podrían abordarse. Tanto para alumnos en práctica, como para
nosotros mismos enfocarnos en las cosas que podrían tener un mayor impacto para
OSM en Chile. Algo así como un conjunto de links a lo que se está desarrollando.

Cristián


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[Talk-de] A Year of edits Liste

[MonkZ]

Hi,

Ich suche nach einer Liste mit "A Year of Edits" Videos.

MfG
MonkZ



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[OSM-talk-be] adressen

[Louis van Boeckel]

wat is er misgegaan met de adressen 2950,2040,2030,2930,2940 enz openen 
niet volledig


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Re: [Talk-it] problema svolte - casello Piovene-Rocchette

[Volker Schmidt]

Sembra apposto anche formalmente, utilizzando il plugin "graphview" JOSM.
Potrebbe trattarsi di un errore della routing engine.

Volker

2015-09-08 11:37 GMT+02:00 dvdzero :

> Il problema rimane.
> A me quella relazione sembra giusta.
>
> Boh ... io non capisco, se qualcuno riesce può sistemare?
>
> Grazie
> Davide
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/problema-svolte-casello-Piovene-Rocchette-tp5853719p5854190.html
> Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Next Meetup - Sat 12th Sept

[Daniel Cussen]

Can someone update:
http://www.openstreetmap.ie/events/
?

On 08/09/2015, Daniel Cussen  wrote:
> Did not see it mentioned here, but the request to use TOG is approved.
>
> There is even a blog post here:
> http://www.tog.ie/2015/09/osm-mapjam-saturday-12th-sept/
>
> On 03/09/2015, Daniel Cussen  wrote:
>>> to be confirmed in the next few days.
>>
>> Just to let you know, as a member of TOG, it takes 5 days to get
>> approval. The email went out to TOG members today, so in 5 days it
>> should be approved.
>>
>> I am unlikely to make the meeting as I have too many projects on the
>> go currently.
>>
>> On 02/09/2015, Dave Corley  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The next OpenStreetMap Ireland meetup is on Sat 12th Sept and is
>>> provisionally slated to be held in Tóg in Dublin city center, to be
>>> confirmed in the next few days.
>>>
>>> I hope to see many of you there.
>>>
>>> I'll send out further details closer to the date
>>>
>>> Dave
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>>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Lester Caine]

On 08/09/15 12:58, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>> The historical tag can be used to indicate that the viaduct was 
>> > previously used as a railway. It should be used in conjunction with 
>> > other tags such as man_made.
> Is there anything **currently** making clear (or at least indicating)
> that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there any difference?
> 
> Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.

This is perhaps the sticking point?
A structure exists due to the previous construction of say a railway and
it gets 're-tasked' to something else. If it's called 'the old railway
viaduct' then that is acceptable, but if it's just called 'the viaduct'
one is not allowed to add in some way 'formally the xxx railway'?

Having to dig back through change log data to establish that was
previously mapped while it was a something else when many locals will be
looking for 'the old xxx' is wrong. If the object being mapped has an
historical aspect there should be no objection to adding that data and
no one has a right to remove it.

Even 'site of xxx' has a precedent to map it if there is some marker
visible on the ground but no other indication it ever existed.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 11:35 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
> 
> Buildings that are in ruin have the tag ruin=yes 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ruins


this is discouraged tagging, similar to disused=yes etc.


cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Marco De Nadai]

Sisi, sono a conoscenza di questa pagina :)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 10:52, Simone Cortesi  ha
scritto:

>
> 2015-09-08 10:15 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>> > ho trovato grosse mancanze anche a Roma (es fiumicino quasi non esiste
>> come palazzi o trastevere nn è finito), Napoli, Firenze. Speravo che i dati
>> degli edifici fossero più completi in OSM :(
>>
>> è un lavoro in corso. Gli edifici sono dove qualcuno gli ha disegnato.
>
>
> e CMQ, ricordiamo sempre, che gli import vanno fatti con ESTREMA CAUTELA,
> non sono operazioni da prendere sottogamba.
>
> vanno documentati e discussi prima di essere avviati.
>
>
> --
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>
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-- 
*Marco De Nadai*
*Assistant Researcher at Fondazione Bruno Kessler (FBK) - *
*MobS Unit*
Via Sommarive, 18 - Povo
38123 Trento (TN)

E-mail: dena...@fbk.eu
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] adressen

[Ben Abelshausen]

Hey,

2015-09-07 13:19 GMT+00:00 Marc Gemis :

> Berkenlaan_WI is Berkenlaan, Wilrijk. Er is ook Berkenlaan_AN vermoed ik
> voor Antwerpen. Volgens Ben A is Antwerpen de enige stad waar straatnamen
> meerdere keren voorkomen (weliswaar met verschillende postcodes).
>

Is een hack in het CRAB om die adressen toch in het datamodel te laten
passen. Er zijn er nog volgens mij maar die zouden ondertussen toch
allemaal rechtgezet moeten zijn dacht ik of die gaan rechtgezet worden. We
moeten goed opletten en adreswijzigingen in het oog houden.

In principe maakt de huidige situatie voor OSM niet veel uit omdat zowat
alles in ons datamodel past ;-) We moeten gewoon opletten dat we niet
straatnamen overnemen zoals Berkenlaan_WI maar Berkenlaan...

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 11:29 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
> 
> The tag bridge=viaduct is not restricted to railways and highways!
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bridge%3Dviaduct
> 
> Viaducts are also used for waterways... ! http://www.chirk.com/aqueduct.html


but then they are called "aqueducts" and the property in osm is bridge=aqueduct 

For the feature there are man_made=bridge  and/or historic=aqueduct.


> 
>> 
>> Even if we "had" an established way to tag viaducts independently from ways 
>> running over them,
> 
> 'We' do. Over 43,000 uses of it.


you are referring to the property not the feature.

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] adressen

[Sander Deryckere]

Hmm, blijkbaar was ik een "git add" vergeten, waardoor nieuwe straten niet
toegevoegd waren (en ze een error gaven bij het lezen).

Dit moet nu opgelost zijn.

Op 8 september 2015 11:56 schreef Louis van Boeckel :

> wat is er misgegaan met de adressen 2950,2040,2030,2930,2940 enz openen
> niet volledig
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:05:30 +0100
"Dave F."  wrote:

> On 08/09/2015 07:01, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:49:48 +0100
> > "Dave F."  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I don't believe anyone's advocating the removal of existing
> >> entities. In your viaduct case above, keep the viaduct entity,
> >> remove the railway=abandoned tag, use the historical tag to
> >> describe the past of the viaduct (which exists) but don't use it
> >> to describe the railway (which doesn't).
> > Note that it is not necessary to use "historical tag" for existing
> > viaduct. man_made=bridge seems to fit well.
> 
> The historical tag can be used to indicate that the viaduct was 
> previously used as a railway. It should be used in conjunction with 
> other tags such as man_made.

Is there anything **currently** making clear (or at least indicating)
that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there any difference?

Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 12:58, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:


Is there anything **currently** making clear (or at least indicating)
that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there any difference?

Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.


If it's a sub-tag of an existing entity, then I see no problem in adding 
it.


railway=abandoned is a primary tag, so, unlike a historical tag it can 
(but shouldn't) be used to map something that no longer exists (such as 
non existing railways through new housing estates.


This is one reason I believe linear ways tagged as man_made=bridge 
should be rendered:

man_made=bridge
bridge=*
historical=railway

Cheers
Dave F..

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Lauri Kytömaa]

Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there any difference?
>
> Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.

If anyone can add descriptive attributes of present features on
present-in-osm objects, they shouldn't be deleted. A tag saying
"this was a railway" is not historical (i.e. "gone"), but part of
the life story of that feature. Affixing the data to relevant current
objects is more precise than storing it separately in "some other
database", when the posterity can't tell if those two databases
refer to, say, in this example, different bridges that were in the
same spot, different bridges close to each other but the location
data wasn't accurate enough to indicate that they weren't the
same bridge, or that the bridge was in fact the same bridge all
along.

An original cycleway bridge most likely looks a whole lot
different from a railway bridge converted to host a cycleway, or
any other less heavy stuff. Even if it wasn't, the mapper who
sees the change or who's investigation reveals that the bridge
is in fact the same that used to host the railway, has done a
worthwile and original contribution.

Tags are cheap.

-- 
alv

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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Marco De Nadai]

Non ci sono i WFS degli edifici però :(

Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 10:08, Stefano  ha scritto:

>
>
> Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 09:53, Marco De Nadai  ha
> scritto:
>
>> ho trovato grosse mancanze anche a Roma (es fiumicino quasi non esiste
>> come palazzi o trastevere nn è finito), Napoli, Firenze. Speravo che i dati
>> degli edifici fossero più completi in OSM :(
>>
>
>>
>> Per Torino: Al momento l'unico modo da me trovato è quello da WMS server
>> del catasto della Regione Piemonte. Questo presuppone disegnarci sopra:
>> nessun dato da importare di vostra conoscenza?
>>
>
> http://www.comune.torino.it/geoportale/ser_professionali_2.htm
>
> Il link allo shapefile non lo ritrovo, ma dal WMS basta cambiare in WFS il
> protocollo ed ottieni lo shapefile :-)
>
> Il problema è che nessuno ci si è mai messo e chi ci ha provato è stato
> demotivato o bloccato dai vari burocrati.
>
> La zona di San Salvario è stata disegnata dal WMS (o importata, non
> ricordo esattamente) il mese prima di OSMit 2012.
>
>
>> Grazie
>>
>
>
> Ciao,
> Stefano
>
>
>>
>> Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 06:14, Marco Bodrato > > ha scritto:
>>
>>> Ciao,
>>>
>>> Il Mar, 8 Settembre 2015 1:30 am, Luca Delucchi ha scritto:
>>> > Il 07/set/2015 16:45, "Marco De Nadai"  ha scritto:
>>>
>>> >> vorrei far notare che in quest'area torinese
>>>
>>> >> c'è un buco in cui non sono stati mappati gli edifici.
>>> >> Normale? Mi sembra molto strano che solo li non ci siano...
>>>
>>> > Si direi normale, in pieno spirito OSM
>>>
>>> Anche perché purtroppo di zone di Torino nelle quali nessuno ha ancora
>>> inserito tutti gli edifici, ce ne sono parecchie...
>>>
>>> Buon lavoro...
>>> m
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://bodrato.it/papers/
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Marco De Nadai*
>> *Assistant Researcher at Fondazione Bruno Kessler (FBK) - *
>> *MobS Unit*
>> Via Sommarive, 18 - Povo
>> 38123 Trento (TN)
>>
>> E-mail: dena...@fbk.eu
>>
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>>
>>
>
> ___
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>


-- 
*Marco De Nadai*
*Assistant Researcher at Fondazione Bruno Kessler (FBK) - *
*MobS Unit*
Via Sommarive, 18 - Povo
38123 Trento (TN)

E-mail: dena...@fbk.eu
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[Talk-GB] OSM Central South

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


Was wondering whether people in the Hampshire area (including neighbouring 
counties) would be up for a monthly regular OSM meet? London, the Midlands and 
Nottingham all do well in this respect but might be good to have one in this 
area.


Basically Hampshire, south-east Wiltshire, west Berkshire, south-west Surrey, 
east Dorset, IOW and western West Sussex, this sort of area.


I'd propose (arbitrarily) the 4th Wednesday of the month (starting October) but 
this is open for change. Anyone potentially interested? Please email me 
directly if you don't want to "spam" the list.


Thanks,

Nick
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 07:01, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:49:48 +0100
"Dave F."  wrote:



I don't believe anyone's advocating the removal of existing entities.
In your viaduct case above, keep the viaduct entity, remove the
railway=abandoned tag, use the historical tag to describe the past of
the viaduct (which exists) but don't use it to describe the railway
(which doesn't).

Note that it is not necessary to use "historical tag" for existing
viaduct. man_made=bridge seems to fit well.


The historical tag can be used to indicate that the viaduct was 
previously used as a railway. It should be used in conjunction with 
other tags such as man_made.


slightly OT
man_made=bridge only appears to render when it is an enclosed way, but 
not a linear one.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/368285628

Dave F.

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Re: [Talk-es] consulta sobre uso

[Jose Luis Perez Diez]

IMNAL  pero la respuesta facil es si a todo

El Dimarts 08 Setembre 2015, a les 09:50:07, Adrián Brañas Castro va escriure:
> 1) ¿Podríamos utilizar las APIs de OSM y comercializar nuestro software?
Si. Pero hay limitaciones para evitar el abuso (no usar los servidores de OSM 
como backend para tu aplicación).

> ¿Tiene coste alguno? 

Si aunque puedas usar tus servidores como backend y hay algunos gratuitos 
(limitación de llamadas/tiempo)

> ¿Lo permite la licencia?

La de los datos si 

> 2) ¿Hay APIs para la web-app y para móviles?

una API se puede usar para las dos cosas ¿WTF?

Mira
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/9367/can-i-use-openstreetmaps-openstreetmaps-api-for-commercial-apps-on-android
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API

https://www.mapbox.com/pricing/

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 09:07, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


I believe you are oversimplifying things by just looking at the tracks and if 
they are there it is some kind of railway and in absence of tracks it has 
nothing more to do with railway.

First of all, we don't currently know a tag for a viaduct entity in OSM, we 
only have a viaduct property for railway and highway entities (bridge=viaduct) 
to denote that they are on a viaduct.


man_made=bridge
bridge=*

The above is meant to be the way to describe bridges with no current 
use. The latest version of Mapnik should render it but there appears to 
be something wrong atm.



Even if we "had" an established way to tag viaducts independently from ways 
running over them, we would still likely want to tag whether the viaduct was built for 
roads or for railway.


Something like an historical sub tag for the above example
man_made=bridge
bridge=*
historical=railway



IMHO railway=abandoned fits into this idea, and solves these issues.


Not really. There is no railway.


Before continuing this discussion we should define the possible states we want 
to map/recognize, i.e. disused, abandoned, (dismantled, razed) and agree on 
their meaning.
People continue to write about railway=abandoned as if it described former 
railways with no traces whatsoever left, while to others it means traces are 
left.


I think it been clearly stated many times

Cheers
Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 13:05 schrieb Dave F. :
> 
> slightly OT
> man_made=bridge only appears to render when it is an enclosed way, but not a 
> linear one.


yes, IMHO this is the desired behavior. Also buildings don't render  when 
mapped as linear ways...

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 08/09/2015, Fabian Schmidt  wrote:
> On 09/08/2015 12:16 AM, Dave F. wrote:
>> I fail to understand why railways are singled out as a special case. If
>> roads, buildings or woods get demolished, they get deleted.
>
> please have a look at the tag definition in the wiki: "where the rails
> have been removed but the route is still visible in some way" [1]

Please have a look at previous discussions, the conflict is not about
railway=abandoned as defined in the wiki but about mapping
completely-disappeared railways where no feature (bridge, cuting, etc)
remains, and sometimes incompatible features (houses) have been built
at that location.

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[OSM-talk] List of "A year of edits" videos

[MonkZ]

Hi,

I'm seeking a list of "A Year of Edits" videos.

MfG
MonkZ



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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 09/05/2015 03:36 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
> Anything else is simply incorrect, so these changes should be reverted
> back to the correct data?

Done, and suggest that the next persion to fancy mass-changing (the OSM
represenation of) the UK rail network discuss that here beforehand.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33890248

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] relation "D xx"

[Philippe Verdy]

La perte de valeur est bien ce qui est signifié, ce qui rend le terme
approprié. en aucun cas je n'ai dit que "is_in" est obsolète, ce qui a un
sens bien plus fort.
Déprécié signifie juste que sa valeur est amoindrie, pas qu'elle est nulle,
puisqu'on est conscient des cas où il reste encore nécessaire (davantage
comme annotation descriptive qui sera affichée dans le détail d'un objet et
qui pourra éventuellement servir à des recherches "floues" que pour une
recherche précise, puisque les valeurs restent informatives, sujette à
problèmes divers sur la syntaxe, l'orthographe, la langue, l'ordre et le
nombre des termes à indiquer dedans).
"is_in" permet de garder une information tant qu'on ne peut pas la mettre
ailleurs, pour faire un filtrage manuel quand plus tard on pourra
rassembler les objets concernés.


Le 7 septembre 2015 21:14, Jean-Claude Repetto  a écrit :

> Le 07/09/2015 18:39, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>
>> déprécié est le bon terme
>>
>
> Non, une dépréciation est une perte de valeur d'un bien, ou plus
> généralement d'une monnaie.
>
> deprecated est un faux-ami, et peut être traduit en français par obsolète,
> désuet ...
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Another road classification disagreement (this time with HFCS in Kansas)

[Minh Nguyen]

On 2015-09-06 01:24, Toby Murray wrote:

This user has also upgraded a lot of unpaved county roads in eastern
Kansas to secondary because of HFCS which also strikes me as wrong.
You can clearly see where he has done this at zoom level 9 [6].


When I started mapping in San Jose, CA, after years of mapping in 
Cincinnati, I encountered similar problems with highway classifications. 
There were `highway=secondary` ways that, in reality, are tree-lined 
residential roads with 25 mph speed limits, Child at Play signs, and 
unsignalized crosswalks. Presumably that's because they're designated 
"major collectors" in HFCS. Residents along those streets would probably 
disagree.


Parts of downtown San Francisco and downtown Houston consist entirely of 
`highway=primary` ways with a few `highway=service`s sprinkled in. That 
kind of classification doesn't seem incredibly useful for routing, and 
it makes it more difficult to establish a visual hierarchy when styling 
a map.


In the Cincinnati area, we reserved `secondary` for good cross-town 
roads, for consistency with `secondary` state routes in rural areas. We 
demoted a grand boulevard (Central Pky., an HFCS "principal arterial" 
that's part of three U.S. routes) from `primary` to `secondary`, because 
a nearby Interstate has long obsoleted it for cross-town travel.


As I recently argued in a diary entry [1], high road classifications, 
along with umbrella landuse areas, mean that potential contributors 
won't see a blank slate where they probably should (since there may be 
little other than streets). Can we tone down these cities a bit? I think 
it would help the project.


I've come to the same conclusion as NE2 [2] that we should classify 
roads "from scratch" on a case-by-case basis and only consider systems 
like HFCS as a hint, just as we treated the TIGER import's 
classifications as a starting point. We have enough information before 
us, including aerial imagery and the overall road topology, to 
contradict HFCS when necessary.


[1] 
[2] 

--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


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[Talk-de] Nächstes Karlsruher Hack-Weekend am 17/18 Oktober

[Frederik Ramm]

Hallo,

   das nächste Karlsruher Hack-Weekend ist am 17./18. Oktober im
Geofabrik-Büro. Hier die übliche Wikiseite:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_Hack_Weekend_October_2015

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 08/09/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
>> Am 08.09.2015 um 17:58 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo :
>>
>> It would
>> be a silly thing to do, as these names definitely are not a current
>> property of Dublin.
>
> I would bet most of them can still be found in today's city, e.g. in pub
> names or other business names.

Probably. Didn't find one in OSM data, but the same exercise with
"Lutèce" yields a lot of results in Paris. So what ? The name is a
current property of those businesses, not of the city the businesses
are in.

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Re: [Talk-de] A Year of edits Liste

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 08.09.2015 um 14:49 schrieb MonkZ:

Ich suche nach einer Liste mit "A Year of Edits" Videos.
eine Liste habe ich nicht, aber such mal bei Vimeo, IIRC sind dort die 
meisten Videos gelandet.



Grüße,
Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Next Meetup - Sat 12th Sept

[Killyfole and District Development Association]

Sure, is that OK?

On Tuesday 08 September 2015 12:45:20 Daniel Cussen wrote:
> Can someone update:
> http://www.openstreetmap.ie/events/
> ?



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[OSM-ja] Holux Utility 、うまく動いています?

[ribbon]

GPSロガー M-241 を使ってGPSログを取ったのですがHolux Utilityが
まともに動いてくれません。

1) 添付されているドライバはWindows32ビット用。64ビット環境では動かない。
2) サイトから64ビットドライバをインストールするとデバイスは見えるようになる。
3) Holux UtilityでM-241に接続するが、途中でハングアップ。
   ハングアップするのはM-241本体。USB接続状態のままになってしまう。
   電源を切らないと戻らない。

で、代替としてmtkbabelを使いました。こちらはopenSUSE 13.2上で正常に動いて
います。データも取れているようなので、M-241によるGPSログ採取は正常のようです。
ただ、USB接続でM-241をPCに繋げる場合、Linuxではうまくいかない場合があります。
デバイス認識に失敗してしまう場合もあります。UEFIなマシンだとうまくいかないみたい
でした。

皆様の所はいかがでしょうか。

ribbon

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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 10:52 schrieb Simone Cortesi :
> 
> e CMQ, ricordiamo sempre, che gli import vanno fatti con ESTREMA CAUTELA, non 
> sono operazioni da prendere sottogamba.
> 
> vanno documentati e discussi prima di essere avviati.


grazie Simone, va sottolineato!
Segnalo il link al wiki per la procedura dettagliata:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

ciao 
Martin 
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[Talk-co] [SFDBogota- 10 Años] Invitados a participar y postular charlas y talleres

[SFD Bogota]

Buenas a todos

El evento de software libre mas esperado por todos cumple 10 años, y en su
décimo aniversario, por primera vez se realizará durante 3 días distintos
en 3 sitios diferentes, para que puedan disfrutar mas de este evento, el
cual promociona, comparte y difunde las tecnologías libres y abiertas en
distintos ámbitos de la sociedad.

El #SFDBogotá se realizará en las siguientes fechas:

Fecha: Sábado 17 de Octubre de 205
Hora:8am - 5pm
Lugar: CUN, Corporación Unificada Nacional de Educación Superior - Sede A
(Administrativa) : Calle 12 b No. 4 - 79

Fecha: Lunes 19 de Octubre de 205
Hora:9:30am - 3:00pm
Lugar: Fundación Universitaria Konrad Lorenz - Cra. 9 Bis #62-43

Fecha: Miércoles 21 de Octubre de 205
Hora:9:30am - 3:30pm
Lugar:Escuela Colombiana Julio Garavito - AK.45 No.205-59 (Autopista Norte)

Para participar como conferencistas y/o talleristas,se encuentran abiertas
las inscripciones. De igual manera, para los que quieran ser patrocinadores
del evento, y lo pueden realizar a través de los siguientes links:

- Conferencias - http://bit.ly/1NO8e8K
- Talleres - http://bit.ly/1ILapCa
- Patrocinadores del evento - http://bit.ly/1KsmlAr

- Inscripción de Asistentes. Este requisito es obligatorio independiente de
la actividad en la que desee participar, y el día del evento deben llevar
el ticket impreso y que sea nitido el código de barras, para agilizar el
proceso de entrada al evento. Sin este requisito no se les puede garantizar
la entrada al evento - http://bit.ly/1L5rokp

Para mas información ingresar al link:
http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Colombia/Bogota/SFDBogota

-- 
Atentamente

COMITE ORGANIZADOR
Software Freedom Day Bogotá (@SFDBta)
http://sfdbogota.info
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Re: [Talk-es] consulta sobre uso

[Sergio García Villalonga]

Buenas,

Yo tengo otra pregunta relacionada. Si tengo una aplicación web, cuyo
backend hace llamadas puntuales al API de OSM, ¿está permitido? La gran
mayoría de datos los guardo en mi propia base de datos, pero de vez en
cuando hago alguna llamada.


Sergio,

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2015-09-08 13:30 GMT+02:00 Jose Luis Perez Diez :

> IMNAL  pero la respuesta facil es si a todo
>
> El Dimarts 08 Setembre 2015, a les 09:50:07, Adrián Brañas Castro va
> escriure:
> > 1) ¿Podríamos utilizar las APIs de OSM y comercializar nuestro software?
> Si. Pero hay limitaciones para evitar el abuso (no usar los servidores de
> OSM como backend para tu aplicación).
>
> > ¿Tiene coste alguno?
>
> Si aunque puedas usar tus servidores como backend y hay algunos gratuitos
> (limitación de llamadas/tiempo)
>
> > ¿Lo permite la licencia?
>
> La de los datos si
>
> > 2) ¿Hay APIs para la web-app y para móviles?
>
> una API se puede usar para las dos cosas ¿WTF?
>
> Mira
>
> https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/9367/can-i-use-openstreetmaps-openstreetmaps-api-for-commercial-apps-on-android
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API
>
> https://www.mapbox.com/pricing/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 15:44:16 +0300
Lauri Kytömaa  wrote:

> Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there any difference?
> >
> > Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.
> 
> If anyone can add descriptive attributes of present features on
> present-in-osm objects, they shouldn't be deleted. A tag saying
> "this was a railway" is not historical (i.e. "gone"), but part of
> the life story of that feature.

" but part of the life story of that feature" - in other words -
historical.

> An original cycleway bridge most likely looks a whole lot
> different from a railway bridge converted to host a cycleway, or
> any other less heavy stuff.

And it may be tagged with tags such as width and other.

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[OSM-talk] Railways yet again (was "THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject")

[Andy Townsend]

May I respectfully suggest that before anyone sends yet another reply to 
this thread that they ask "Has this point of view been put forward 
already?".  Everyone is well aware that there is disagreement (and 
sometimes even disagreement over what to disagree over), but people are 
rarely won over from one point of view to another by simply repeating 
the same arguments over and over again.


If there's something new to add I, as an OSM list-reading punter*, would 
be glad to read it (perhaps on the tagging list if that's what it's 
about) but frankly it's all getting a bit repetitive.


Cheers,

Andy

* written entirely in the personal capacity of someone who is fed up of 
reading the same mailing list posts by several people repeating 
different sides of the same argument ad nauseam.


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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 14:22:01 +0100
"Dave F."  wrote:

> On 08/09/2015 13:56, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:37:47 +0100
> > "Dave F."  wrote:
> >
> >> This is one reason I believe linear ways tagged as man_made=bridge
> >> should be rendered:
> >> man_made=bridge
> >> bridge=*
> >> historical=railway
> > Please, see definition of man_made=bridge on the wiki.
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbridge
> >
> > "The tag man_made=bridge is used to tag a bridge defined by the
> > outline of the bridge."
> >
> > See also "Used on these elements"
> That may the (restrictive) way it's used now but please explain why
> it can't be expanded to include linear ways?
> 
> You're advocating the use of man_made=bridge but don't want it
> rendered for the way the *vast* majority of these bridges will be
> mapped - as linear ways. Why?

Please, see definition of man_made=bridge on the wiki.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbridge

"The tag man_made=bridge is used to tag a bridge defined by the
 outline of the bridge."

Outline of bridge is by definition an area, not way or node.

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 08/09/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
>> Am 08.09.2015 um 13:58 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny :
>>
>> Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.
>
> what do you mean with "historical data", where do you draw the line? What
> about the old_name tags, do you advocate to remove them?

IMHO old_name is fine because it can actually describe the present. As
long as a place is still called or remembered by its old_name by some
living people, that name is a currently-existing property of the
place.

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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 08.09.2015 14:46, Mateusz Konieczny napisał(a):


Certainly not all - in many situations old names are still widely used.


Sometimes multiple old names are used - possibly even in different 
languages, which is easier (old_name:de=*). But I don't know how to tag 
just "oldname1" and "oldname2" if it is the same language and we don't 
even know when exactly was it (old_name:19c=* could help us then).


--
"The train is always on time / The trick is to be ready to put your bags 
down" [A. Cohen]


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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Stefano]

Il giorno 8 settembre 2015 15:31, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > Am 08.09.2015 um 10:08 schrieb Stefano :
> >
> > Il problema è che nessuno ci si è mai messo e chi ci ha provato è stato
> demotivato o bloccato dai vari burocrati.
>
>
> non mi sembrano ottime condizioni per la manutenzione di ciò che adesso si
> spera di poter importare ;-)
>

Teniamoci FOSM e i mille sottoprogetti tipo OpenAddresses. Manca
OpenBuildings ed OpenStreets e siamo a posto.
Libremap è già preso, peccato!


> ciao
> Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 13:16:17 +0100
Lester Caine  wrote:

> On 08/09/15 12:58, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> >> The historical tag can be used to indicate that the viaduct was 
> >> > previously used as a railway. It should be used in conjunction
> >> > with other tags such as man_made.
> > Is there anything **currently** making clear (or at least
> > indicating) that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there
> > any difference?
> > 
> > Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.
> 
> This is perhaps the sticking point?
> A structure exists due to the previous construction of say a railway
> and it gets 're-tasked' to something else. If it's called 'the old
> railway viaduct' then that is acceptable, but if it's just called
> 'the viaduct' one is not allowed to add in some way 'formally the xxx
> railway'?

I would map named bridge that no longer has railway as man_made=bridge
with appropriate name tag.

> formally the xxx railway

So bridge without railway is operated/owned by railway company? It seems
to fit operator/owner tag.

> Even 'site of xxx' has a precedent to map it if there is some marker
> visible on the ground but no other indication it ever existed.

Can you link examples? I am familiar with tagging marker itself, tagging
underground features (with source=*) and tagging visible features.

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Next Meetup - Sat 12th Sept

[Daniel Cussen]

http://www.openstreetmap.ie/events/
is now updated. Thanks all.

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Re: [Talk-es] consulta sobre uso

[María Arias de Reyna]

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Sergio García Villalonga  wrote:

> Buenas,
>
> Yo tengo otra pregunta relacionada. Si tengo una aplicación web, cuyo
> backend hace llamadas puntuales al API de OSM, ¿está permitido? La gran
> mayoría de datos los guardo en mi propia base de datos, pero de vez en
> cuando hago alguna llamada.
>

Está feo. Dependiendo del uso que le des. Define "de vez en cuando".

La API de OSM está más bien para bajarte los datos y servirlos tú por tu
cuenta.


>
>
> Sergio,
>
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>
> 2015-09-08 13:30 GMT+02:00 Jose Luis Perez Diez :
>
>> IMNAL  pero la respuesta facil es si a todo
>>
>> El Dimarts 08 Setembre 2015, a les 09:50:07, Adrián Brañas Castro va
>> escriure:
>> > 1) ¿Podríamos utilizar las APIs de OSM y comercializar nuestro software?
>> Si. Pero hay limitaciones para evitar el abuso (no usar los servidores de
>> OSM como backend para tu aplicación).
>>
>> > ¿Tiene coste alguno?
>>
>> Si aunque puedas usar tus servidores como backend y hay algunos gratuitos
>> (limitación de llamadas/tiempo)
>>
>> > ¿Lo permite la licencia?
>>
>> La de los datos si
>>
>> > 2) ¿Hay APIs para la web-app y para móviles?
>>
>> una API se puede usar para las dos cosas ¿WTF?
>>
>> Mira
>>
>> https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/9367/can-i-use-openstreetmaps-openstreetmaps-api-for-commercial-apps-on-android
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API
>>
>> https://www.mapbox.com/pricing/
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 13:44, Lauri Kytömaa wrote:

Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there any difference?

Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.

  A tag saying
"this was a railway" is not historical (i.e. "gone"), but part of
the life story of that feature.


A 'life story' is historical. Historical doesn't mean 'gone'.

Dave F.



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[OSM-talk-be] Notes in Brussel.

[Philippe Casteleyn]

Ik hou Brussel binnen de kleine ring in het oog en probeer met foto's de zaak 
op te klaren.Met veertig notes is dat niet in het oog te houden.Ik heb dan maar 
vier verweesde notes geresolved.
Er zijn echter dertig notes  bijgekomen met namen van stripfiguren, 
waarschijnlijk de fantasie straatborden.  Misschien muurschilderingen.  De 
auteur is http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/nastouj, maar grotendeels anonymous.
Wat moet daarmee gebeuren ?
Ik hou in het algemeen niet van notes die blijven duren, zeker als dat voordien 
al geweten is.

Ph Casteleyn 
Dahliastraat 16

2800 Mechelen
animals.slippers.loaders

gsm 0486 516261
Ctrl+v


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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 14:37 schrieb Dave F. :
> 
> This is one reason I believe linear ways tagged as man_made=bridge should be 
> rendered:
> man_made=bridge
> bridge=*
> historical=railway


that's not a reason, you could draw an area just like in any other case of a 
bridge. 
There is no historical=railway in the db, but there are 97,4% "yes", likely a 
typo for "historic=yes", like the other values in use: 
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/historical#values


cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:37:47 +0100
"Dave F."  wrote:

> This is one reason I believe linear ways tagged as man_made=bridge 
> should be rendered:
> man_made=bridge
> bridge=*
> historical=railway

Please, see definition of man_made=bridge on the wiki.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbridge

"The tag man_made=bridge is used to tag a bridge defined by the outline
of the bridge." 

See also "Used on these elements"

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[Talk-gb-thenorth] Maptime Durham

[Gregory]

Hello North GB!

I've started a Maptime chapter in Durham, if you're nearby then pop along
and join us.
http://maptime.io/durham/

Maptime isn't specifically OpenStreetMap, but it could be a great place to
discuss the mapping we do and meet the usernames improving the map
together. Welcome to all that like talking about or hearing about maps.

Any questions or thoughts, send me a message.

>From a wet and drizzly Durham,
Gregory.

-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Lauri Kytömaa]

Dave F. wrote:
> A 'life story' is historical. Historical doesn't mean 'gone'.

Then that data shouldn't be 'gone' but just with a different key/tag,
especially as long as the not-gone object exists.

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Nicolás Alvarez]

El martes, 8 de septiembre de 2015, Mateusz Konieczny 
escribió:

> On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 13:16:17 +0100
> Lester Caine > wrote:
>
> > On 08/09/15 12:58, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > >> The historical tag can be used to indicate that the viaduct was
> > >> > previously used as a railway. It should be used in conjunction
> > >> > with other tags such as man_made.
> > > Is there anything **currently** making clear (or at least
> > > indicating) that it is constructed as a railway bridge? Is there
> > > any difference?
> > >
> > > Historical data should not be added and if present - removed.
> >
> > This is perhaps the sticking point?
> > A structure exists due to the previous construction of say a railway
> > and it gets 're-tasked' to something else. If it's called 'the old
> > railway viaduct' then that is acceptable, but if it's just called
> > 'the viaduct' one is not allowed to add in some way 'formally the xxx
> > railway'?
>
> I would map named bridge that no longer has railway as man_made=bridge
> with appropriate name tag.
>
> > formally the xxx railway
>
> So bridge without railway is operated/owned by railway company? It seems
> to fit operator/owner tag.
>

I suspect he meant "formerly" instead of "formally". In fact, given the
context, that is how I (mis)read it at first.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Railways yet again (was "THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject")

[Dave F.]

I'm loving the irony of Andy's criticism of people repeating themselves 
by repeating himself not once, or twice, but three times. In the same 
message. 


(& no, I don't believe it was done intentionally for comic effect).

Dave F. (bored of people in OSM thinking they're somehow superior to 
others & in a position to belittle)




On 08/09/2015 17:38, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 09/08/2015 03:12 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:

* written entirely in the personal capacity of someone who is fed up of
reading the same mailing list posts by several people repeating
different sides of the same argument ad nauseam.

But what if I have said the same thing five times already and the others
STILL don't see that I'm RIGHT

Bye
Frederik




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Re: [Talk-us] USDA Innovation Challenge, Food Security, OSM!

[Clifford Snow]

Mikel,
I've been wanting to contact local FFA and 4H to partner in solving the
problem of our poor rural map data. Here in Washington State, we also have
the problem with wildfires. They seem like a natural partner. I was
inspired by a demo the from a local FFA group of their robotic
submersibles. These kids are tech savvy.

Clifford

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Mikel Maron  wrote:

> http://usdaapps.devpost.com/
>
> Can imagine all sorts of cool things using OSM ... mapping food
> distribution network into local farmer's markets?
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
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>


-- 
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osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 08/09/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
>> Am 08.09.2015 um 14:46 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny :
>> But I would not add old_name that is currently completely unused.
>
> there's one area where old names will be used for sure: old documents,
> books, film, signs, ...
>
> There is no such thing like a currently  completely unused old name,
> otherwise it wouldn't be an old name.
> Or maybe I don't understand "currently". Everything I may encounter now?

If you go that route, there's no limit to how far back an old name can
go. That'd mean that we should add, for example, all of [Dublin's old
names][1] to the osm object, since they are well documented. It would
be a silly thing to do, as these names definitely are not a current
property of Dublin.

IMHO the cuting point should be that the name is used by a living
person, with "used" defined as "when he thinks (out of some document
context) about that place, he (at least sometimes) thinks of it using
that name". It sounds really convoluted when you try a formal
definition, but I hope the ide is clear ? If some joking friend offers
to meet me in "Lutèce" I'll know in which city to go, but I certainly
don't expect OSM to know.


[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Toponymy

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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 14:46 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny :
> 
> I would be careful and avoid removing
> anything.
> 


+1, me too. I believe this is an important statement


> 
> But I would not add old_name that is currently completely unused.


there's one area where old names will be used for sure: old documents, books, 
film, signs, ...

There is no such thing like a currently  completely unused old name, otherwise 
it wouldn't be an old name.
Or maybe I don't understand "currently". Everything I may encounter now?

An old name is the current property of a current object.

Cheers 
Martin 


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Re: [Talk-br] Transmissão da SOTM LatAm

[Wille]

Talvez tenha em 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiqdu6D4hj16NtLOyV5JXIg, mas me 
disseram que na minha palestra não tinha audio na transmissão...




On 05-09-2015 19:23, Alexandre Magno Brito de Medeiros wrote:
Tem gravação de sua palestra sobre o osmcha 
?


Alexandre

Em 5 de setembro de 2015 11:25, Wille > escreveu:


Olá,

Ontem começou a primeira conferência do OSM Latinoamérica. Até
amanhã a tarde temos muitas palestras que estão sendo transmitidas
em http://sotm.openstreetmap.cl/#streaming

abçs,
wille



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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Dave F.]

Could you do the same for this user:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30979060

From a discussion with him he appears to have misinterpreted ORM's wiki 
page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging#Switches 
(search page for maxspeed)


This page needs clarifying.

Dave F.



On 08/09/2015 20:13, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

On 09/05/2015 03:36 PM, Lester Caine wrote:

Anything else is simply incorrect, so these changes should be reverted
back to the correct data?

Done, and suggest that the next persion to fancy mass-changing (the OSM
represenation of) the UK rail network discuss that here beforehand.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33890248

Bye
Frederik




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[OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?

[Warin]

The some of the wiki pages appear to be written for the renders, while 
others look to be written for the mappers. This is confusing!
I believe there should be two versions of the wiki pages - one for 
mappers who need simple descriptions of the tag/s and another for 
renders that give information on rendering the tag/s. So two pages - 
mappers version and renders version.


As a small example;
The properties page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Properties
this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, 
tunnel, cutting)
but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and 
thus calls it a property.

Thus there are two conflicting views that lead to confusion.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Railways yet again (was "THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject")

[Richard Fairhurst]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
> But what if I have said the same thing five times already and the 
> others STILL don't see that I'm RIGHT

Please try not to bring OSMF board meeting conventions onto the talk list.

cheers
Richard





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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Next Meetup - Sat 12th Sept

[Dave Corley]

Apologies, working late last night when I got the word, thanks for passing
the word
On 8 Sep 2015 14:09, "Daniel Cussen"  wrote:

> http://www.openstreetmap.ie/events/
> is now updated. Thanks all.
>
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[Talk-us] USDA Innovation Challenge, Food Security, OSM!

[Mikel Maron]

http://usdaapps.devpost.com/
Can imagine all sorts of cool things using OSM ... mapping food distribution 
network into local farmer's markets?  * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Railways yet again (was "THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject")

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 09/08/2015 03:12 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:
> * written entirely in the personal capacity of someone who is fed up of 
> reading the same mailing list posts by several people repeating 
> different sides of the same argument ad nauseam.

But what if I have said the same thing five times already and the others
STILL don't see that I'm RIGHT

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 13:56, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 13:37:47 +0100
"Dave F."  wrote:


This is one reason I believe linear ways tagged as man_made=bridge
should be rendered:
man_made=bridge
bridge=*
historical=railway

Please, see definition of man_made=bridge on the wiki.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dbridge

"The tag man_made=bridge is used to tag a bridge defined by the outline
of the bridge."

See also "Used on these elements"
That may the (restrictive) way it's used now but please explain why it 
can't be expanded to include linear ways?


You're advocating the use of man_made=bridge but don't want it rendered 
for the way the *vast* majority of these bridges will be mapped - as 
linear ways. Why?


Dave F.

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Re: [Talk-it] Mancanza edifici a Torino

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 10:08 schrieb Stefano :
> 
> Il problema è che nessuno ci si è mai messo e chi ci ha provato è stato 
> demotivato o bloccato dai vari burocrati.


non mi sembrano ottime condizioni per la manutenzione di ciò che adesso si 
spera di poter importare ;-)

ciao 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Dave F.]

On 08/09/2015 14:39, Lauri Kytömaa wrote:

Dave F. wrote:

A 'life story' is historical. Historical doesn't mean 'gone'.

Then that data shouldn't be 'gone' but just with a different key/tag,
especially as long as the not-gone object exists.


Yes. Please see my previous replies.

Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 08.09.2015 um 17:58 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo :
> 
> It would
> be a silly thing to do, as these names definitely are not a current
> property of Dublin.


I would bet most of them can still be found in today's city, e.g. in pub names 
or other business names.

cheers 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Test carte Police/Justice...

[Pierre d'Huy]

Le zonage police gendarmerie me parait assez utile dans les zones de campagne 
où on ne sait pas forcément de qui on dépend (par exemple dans le cantal).
Autrement un zonage qui me parait encore plus intéressant c'est celui des 
paroisses religieuses/sous divisions équivalentes. Là aussi, il y a une utilité 
sur le rattachement des églises/temple/mosquée/synagogue.

Le 7 septembre 2015 17:38:06 GMT+02:00, Philippe Verdy  a 
écrit :
>peut-être plus utile le zonage de la carte scolaire, maisquidoit
>s'appuyer
>sur le zonage des quartiers des communes
>
>le zonage des services sociaux
>
>le zonage des secteurs hospitaliers qui découpe les villes ou sont
>situés
>les chr et services d'urgence en pleine réorganisation,  les communes
>rurales sans service d'urgence n'étant en principe pas découpées.
>
>police et justice sont d'importance générale et justifiés aussi même
>s'il y
>a là aussi des numéros de téléphone unique. c'est pour tout le monde et
>tout les jours de l'année et on n'a jamais assez d'information à ce
>sujet.
>d'autres zonages sont destines a des populations plus limitées ou des
>corporations. on ne devrait pas avoir à consulter les pages jaunes pour
>les
>connaître ni être résident permanent pour avoir l'info dans sa boite à
>lettre dans le magazine communal.
>Le 7 sept. 2015 08:14, "Christian Quest"  a
>écrit :
>
>> Les zones justice, police/gendarmerie s'appuient toutes sur les
>limites de
>> communes et sont en opendata.
>>
>> Je ne vois pas trop l'intérêt de rajouter ça dans OSM car si on veut
>> rajouter tout les zonages possibles et imaginables on n'est pas sorti
>de
>> l'auberge, l'IGN en a répertorié plusieurs centaines !
>>
>>
>> On 06/09/2015 15:47, dHuy Pierre wrote:
>>
>> @cquest: Merci, du coup, c'est déjà cartographié sur osm ou on peut
>le
>> rajouter nous même et si oui sous quel titre et tag?
>>
>>
>>
>> Le Lundi 31 août 2015 11h28, Christian Quest
>
>>  a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Zut, j'ai changé le titre donc le lien :(
>>
>> Voici le lien stable...
>> https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/55d5fec588ee382817a46ec1/
>>
>>
>> On 30/08/2015 12:49, didier2020 wrote:
>> > 404, 403 ... moi j'ai une bx
>> >
>> > ... désolé ...
>> >
>> > Le dimanche 30 août 2015 à 11:06 +0200,
>osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com
>> > a écrit :
>> >> Tu veux dire 403 je suppose.
>> >> Actuellement j'ai un 403 (ça marchait l'autre jour).
>> >>
>> >> N. B. : pour les POI, Guilhem avait bien précisé ni iOS ni
>Android.
>> >>
>> >> Jean-Yvon
>> >>
>> >> Le 30/08/2015 09:18, dHuy Pierre - dh...@yahoo.fr a écrit :
>> >>
>> >>> @Cquest: Ton lien me renvoie un beau 404, suis je seul dans ce
>cas?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Le Jeudi 20 août 2015 21h26, Christian Quest
>> >>>  a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Des morceaux d'OSM dedans... essentiellement les contours de
>> >>> communes
>> >>> utilisés pour recréer les limites des TGI et des zones
>> >>> Police/Gendarmerie, le reste c'est 4 jeux de données opendata
>dispo
>> >>> sur
>> >>> data.gouv.fr
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/carte-des-ressorts-des-tgi/
>> >>>
>> >> ___
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>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned Rails

[Russ Nelson]

Mateusz Konieczny writes:
 > And "abandoned railway" that was not noticed by somebody in his/her
 > own back yard seems to be a good example of object that should not be
 > mapped in OSM.

Oh, and he didn't notice the railroad bridge about 90m east of his
property either. This bridge:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/240308433 Nor the right-of-way
underneath the NYS Thruway. This right-of-way (which pre-existed the
trail): https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/237524740 . Nor the bridge
remains on the west side (which I didn't put into OSM, but they're
there). You can read the Wikipedia page for the railroad -- it will
tell you more than you ever wanted to know about why the railroad
right-of-way under the Thruway was destroyed. All of those should have
been clues to the homeowner. They are *certainly* verifiable evidence
of an abandoned railroad right-of-way.

Why do you persist? You can't win, because you're wrong. I know far,
far more about abandoned railroads than you do, and I can provide as
many examples of the verifiability of abandoned railroads as it will
take to convince you. Assuming that facts will actually change your
mind. Of which I am in doubt at this point.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní zpráva --
Od: Petr Holub 
Komu: 'OpenStreetMap Czech Republic' 
Datum: 9. 9. 2015 7:20:02
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

"> Co jsem tak hledal, tak http://learnosm.org/en/beginner/id-editor/ o 
práci s relacemi nic
> nepíše a po lehkém průzkumu možností iD editoru to vypadá, že umožňuje 
pouze práci stylem
> jeden objekt, jedna akce. Označit více cest jde, ale jediné co s tím jde 
dělat, je spojit je
> do jedné čáry.

Jo a jeste jedna vec: mohl by nekdo dotycneho na foru upozornit, ze
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cyklotrasy_v_%C4%8CR
neni aktualizovany zdroj a ze je potreba pouzivat
http://ra.osmsurround.org/
? Abychom tam pak ruzne trasy nemeli nekolikrat ;)
"



A tahle věta na wiki tedy už není pravdivá?




> Poznámka: seznam tras KČT je generován skriptem
(https://github.com/PetrDlouhy/osm-route-catalogizer) na základě tagu 
"operator=cz:KČT". 




Marián




"
Diky,
Petr


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Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 09.09.2015 um 05:18 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
> 
> this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, tunnel, 
> cutting) 
> but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and thus 
> calls it a property.


these are properties, because they are added to an object to detail its 
position (on a bridge, in a tunnel or cutting), they do not map the bridge, 
tunnel or cutting itself, just referring it indirectly.

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 8:55 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> Show him OSM for the abandoned rails that he can see and point him to
> OpenHistoricalMap for the historical, no-longer-present rails if he's
> excited about that.
>

Sigh.
You present OHM like it's a vibrant project that gets lots of exposure,
where people who flock to edit.
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Re: [Talk-cz] Odborník na cyklotrasy v iD

[Petr Holub]

Ahoj,

> Co jsem tak hledal, tak http://learnosm.org/en/beginner/id-editor/ o práci s 
> relacemi nic
> nepíše a po lehkém průzkumu možností iD editoru to vypadá, že umožňuje pouze 
> práci stylem
> jeden objekt, jedna akce. Označit více cest jde, ale jediné co s tím jde 
> dělat, je spojit je
> do jedné čáry.

no, ja o iD vim taky houby... ale kdyz si v nem vyberu way, tak ji
mohu pridavat do relace (je to uplne dole ve vlastnostech v okne
vlevo od mapy s daty). To zas bychom asi iD krivdili, ze relace
vubec neumi (a bylo by to divne - navic i puvodni dotazovatel psal,
ze jeho problem je, ze ty relace v iD nedokaze identifikovat cislem ale
pouze seznamem destinaci).

Petr



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