Re: [talk-cz] Problém s navigací - Černý Důl

[Lukáš Karas]

Je možné že jsou špatně zadané povolené rychlosti, navigace nepřidává 
penalizaci za odbočení a pak jí prostě vyšla tahle cesta jako rychlejší...

L

Dne středa 31. července 2019 21:56:23 CEST Marián Kyral napsal(a):
> Ahoj,
> Nevíte někdo, proč mě OsmAnd tlačí v Černém dole ( 50.63496° N, 15.71060° E
> ) touhle "zkratkou"? https://photos.app.goo.gl/s6qyZjXxCytWjY1i7
> 
> Díky,
> Marián
> 
> --
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> stručnost.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Joseph Eisenberg]

Besides the tech boosterism, another issue is that it's disingenuous
if Facebook claims to be strongly supporting OSM, while continuing to
keep their valuable user-provided data in a separate, proprietary
database.

Facebook and Google have the two best lists of POIs like shops and
restaurants, and an extensive database of customer photos and reviews
which they control. While Facebook has decided to use OSM for road,
street and waterway data (which they couldn't easily have users add),
they keep this data for themselves. Were Facebook interested in
improving OSM, they could share their POI data, including when a
feature was last visited and notes about which feature no longer
exist. This could add millions more OSM contributors for features like
shops and restaurants, which are not yet completely mapped even in
well-developed OSM communities in Europe, and it would be
revolutionary in Indonesia and Thailand.

Only a few people will every become hobby mappers, adding waterways,
highways, landuse and such for fun, but every business owner wants to
see their shop or office on Facebook, so these POIs would be added and
kept up-to-date by users.

I don't expect Facebook to share this data for free, because a large
part of their business model is recording your geodata and using this
to maximize profit for their shareholders, but if they ever decide to
really prove "we're not that evil", sharing their data could go a long
way to changing Facebooks poor reputation for corporate responsibility
and transparency.

Joseph

On 8/1/19, stevea  wrote:
> (I chose the wrong source email address; apologies if anybody gets this
> twice).
>
> Thanks, Jóhannes.  I did try FB's tool myself and was pleasantly surprised
> it does a "looks OK for now" job of how Mikel put it earlier:  "a balance
> between turbocharged and exploitation."  I hear you as you say that
> mapwith.ai has, as I described, a comfortable workflow of "AI suggests,
> human maps, human checks that what is acceptable can be uploaded, human
> uploads."  That's fine, it does indeed have "a human in the loop" and the
> human checks for quality, the human is not just being there for the sake of
> being there.  This aspect of "humans, not AI, determine quality" is a
> critical component of what I am saying.
>
> What I believe raised ire here was the BBC botching the "press announcement"
> as a stilted and seemingly uninformed "cheerleading" piece that made AI
> sound as if it were a "magic bullet" that was going to save mapping in OSM
> somehow.  It isn't (magic) and it won't (though AI is an important tool
> going forward, especially as it is coupled with human wisdom and a hawkish
> eye towards high quality).  OSM is, and will always be, a
> human-participating project, with all of the social and "get outdoors and
> map" project as one (human) might like it to be.  AI can and does help,
> that's fine, as long as humans are always "in charge."
>
> Again, it sounds like there is a lot of agreement here.
>
> SteveA
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[OSM-talk] Proposed removal of rendering support for natural=marsh in Openstreetmap-carto style

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I've proposed removing the rendering of natural=marsh in
Openstreetmap-carto, the rendering stylesheet used for the "standard"
map layer on openstreetmap.org

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3829

The common tagging for a marsh is natural=wetland + wetland=marsh as
with other types of wetland.

According to the wiki, natural=marsh has not been recommended at least
since January 2009:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:natural%3Dmarsh=217946;
and since 2016 the page has specified that this tag is deprecated:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Anatural%3Dmarsh

Since 2009, wetland=marsh has shown steadily increasing usage. It is
now used 130,000 times, compared to less than 10k remaining uses of
natural=marsh.

Please comment at github if there are any objections to this change or
other comments:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3829

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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2019-07-29

[Dave Hansen]

These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2019-07-29

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2019-07-29/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2019-07-29

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[stevea]

(I chose the wrong source email address; apologies if anybody gets this twice).

Thanks, Jóhannes.  I did try FB's tool myself and was pleasantly surprised it 
does a "looks OK for now" job of how Mikel put it earlier:  "a balance between 
turbocharged and exploitation."  I hear you as you say that mapwith.ai has, as 
I described, a comfortable workflow of "AI suggests, human maps, human checks 
that what is acceptable can be uploaded, human uploads."  That's fine, it does 
indeed have "a human in the loop" and the human checks for quality, the human 
is not just being there for the sake of being there.  This aspect of "humans, 
not AI, determine quality" is a critical component of what I am saying.

What I believe raised ire here was the BBC botching the "press announcement" as 
a stilted and seemingly uninformed "cheerleading" piece that made AI sound as 
if it were a "magic bullet" that was going to save mapping in OSM somehow.  It 
isn't (magic) and it won't (though AI is an important tool going forward, 
especially as it is coupled with human wisdom and a hawkish eye towards high 
quality).  OSM is, and will always be, a human-participating project, with all 
of the social and "get outdoors and map" project as one (human) might like it 
to be.  AI can and does help, that's fine, as long as humans are always "in 
charge."

Again, it sounds like there is a lot of agreement here.

SteveA
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

31. júlí 2019 kl. 19:01, skrifaði "stevea" :
 
> Just because, as you say (and I agree), that "human mappers have not been 
> able to produce high
> quality maps worldwide" doesn't mean that we can't, we simply must strive to 
> do better. And we do.
> And we should using available tools like AI, though if we do, we absolutely 
> must include a strong
> component of human-oriented quality assurance right at the forefront of doing 
> so.

For the sake of this discussion it should be pointed out that (except for 
initial Malaysia thing) the mapwith.ai website does just that.

The AI has found possible roads and it is up to humans to confirm if it is a 
road and re-classify it if Residential (the default) is not correct.

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Re: [Talk-es] Cómo mapear una plaza de toros

[dcapillae]

Buenas noches.

He consultado en la lista general de etiquetado y me han recomendado que use
lo siguiente para mapear plazas de toros:

leisure=stadium
sport=bullfighting

Por tanto, mi propuesta sobre cómo deberíamos mapear una plaza de toros
sería [1]:

Para la plaza,
leisure=stadium
+ sport=bullfighting
+ name=*

Para el ruedo,
leisure=pitch
+ sport=bullfighting
+ surface=sand

Para el edificio,
building=stadium
+ sport=bullfighting

Si se trata de una plaza sin gradas, esto es, solo el ruedo, entonces no
usaríamos «leisure=stadium» sino solamente «leisure=pitch».

Me gustaría revisar cómo están mapeadas las plazas de toros para
homogeneizar su etiquetado conforme a este esquema. Si no hay ninguna
objeción, recomendación o sugerencia, me pondré con ello.

He aprovechado para documentar la etiqueta «sport=bullfighting» que, a pesar
de estar en uso, no aparecía en el wiki [2].
 
Atentamente,
Daniel

[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Espa%C3%B1a/C%C3%B3mo_mapear_un#Plaza_de_toros
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Tag:sport%3Dbullfighting



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Re: [Talk-GB] How to Fix a "Fix-Me"

[Michael Booth]

Looks like the fixme was added to the end node of that road when it was 
first created, and then the person who added the loop probably didn't 
realise it was there so it remained.


If you look at the node history and the changeset where it was created, 
you can see the loop being added and the fixme staying on the node: 
https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=52127592


In case you're not aware, you can use tools like Keepright to locate 
fixme tags, and then try to fix the problem or even remove the tag if 
you're sure there's no issue: 
https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=14=52.03865=-0.71392=B0T=0%2C170_ign=1_tmpign=1


Personally, for things that need a survey I prefer using OSM notes as 
they are accessible on osm.org so you don't need a QA tool to check if 
there's something worth surveying in your area when out and about.


On 31/07/2019 18:42, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
If this is not the correct place / route to seek assistance with this 
issue, please advise me where to go.


I see that, on a new housing estate near me, there are a number of 
"Fix Me" tags on highway=residential, which I would like to fix.


The tags all say, "noexit? turning_circle? stub?"

These are all streets that link to only one other highway, mostly 
highway=tertiary (i.e. they are cul de sacs / dead ends).


Where the highway=residential is mapped as a single line, I can see 
that it would be sensible to mark whether there is a turning circle, 
or turning loop, at the end and, if there is no exit by vehicle, 
bicycle, or on foot, to mark it as "noexit".


However, where there is a turning loop, which is already mapped as a 
looped highway, I don't understand what the "FixMe" is asking for.  
See, for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111774622


Acording to 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dturning_loop,


"Draw a closed highway=* way around the traffic island and connect it 
to the main road, giving it the same name. If traffic is required to 
flow in a particular direction around the traffic island, add 
oneway=yes. This method is preferred for large turning circles, 
because navigation applications decide whether the user is on- or 
off-route based on their distance from the roadway. This method also 
makes it possible to accurately map features inside the loop, such as 
parking spaces, trees, or a flagpole.
If a turning loop has been mapped as a way, do not remap it as a 
simple node, as that would remove detail from the map."


Are these "FixMe"s generated automatically?  Can I just delete the 
"FixMe" in these cases?


I would be grateful for any advice.

Peter




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Re: [Talk-cat] Eliminación del prefijo "WikiProject"

[Carlos Sánchez]

Buenas Daniel,

Hemos estado hablando del tema. Lo que vamos a hacer primero es especificar
Catalunya (o lo que corresponda) en los casos en que se traten de páginas
de Wikiproject_Catalunya que abarquen el espacio físico de Catalunya. Se
aprovechará para hacer un poco de limpieza.

Saludos,

*Carlos Sánchez*

Missatge de dcapillae  del dia dt., 30 de jul. 2019 a
les 19:47:

> Buenos días.
>
> Soy Daniel, de Málaga. Me gustaría eliminar el prefijo «WikiProject» de
> las páginas relacionadas con el proyecto de mapeo de Cataluña conforme
> recomiendan las convenciones del wiki para el nombrado de este tipo de
> páginas. [1]
>
> La página de lugar sobre Cataluña en el wiki ya figura con nombre
> propio, «Catalunya», pero aún quedan otras que no han sido renombradas
> [2]. También sería interesante añadir el prefijo de idioma «Ca» a las
> páginas en catalán.
>
> Respecto al prefijo «WikiProject», ya se ha eliminado de las páginas de
> España, Estados Unidos, Australia, Nueva Zelanda, Canadá, Israel,
> Sudáfrica, Filipinas y un montón de países más. Si estáis interesados,
> me podría encargar de eliminarlo también de las páginas que faltan
> dedicadas al proyecto de mapeo de Cataluña, aunque sería mejor que un
> voluntario que dominase el idioma lo hiciese. Yo no hablo catalán y
> puedo cometer errores.
>
>
> Gracias por vuestra atención.
>
> Atentamente,
>
> Daniel
>
>
> [1]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Organizaci%C3%B3n_del_wiki#Convenci.C3.B3n_para_el_nombrado_de_p.C3.A1ginas
>
>
> [2]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex=WikiProject+Catalunya=0
>
>
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>


-- 

*Carlos Sánchez*About.me 
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Re: [talk-cz] Problém s navigací - Černý Důl

[Majka]

Jaká navigace? Auto? Kolo? Pěší?

Vidím tam potenciální problém v chybějícím mostu, na té dvojce není, jen na té 
ulici co tě to vede. Jestli to náhodou nepředpokládá brod...

31. července 2019 21:56:23 SELČ, "Marián Kyral"  napsal:
>Ahoj,
>Nevíte někdo, proč mě OsmAnd tlačí v Černém dole ( 50.63496° N,
>15.71060° E ) touhle "zkratkou"?
>https://photos.app.goo.gl/s6qyZjXxCytWjY1i7
>
>Díky,
>Marián
>
>-- 
>Odesláno aplikací K-9 Mail ze systému Android. Omluvte prosím moji
>stručnost.
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Re: [Talk-at] CS Kommentar durch Problemuser

[Johann Haag]

Am Montag, 29. Juli 2019 schrieb Andreas :

> Am 27.07.19 um 22:57 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> > Hallo,
> >
> > der Wunsch von JH, die von ihm "ganz normal gemappten" Edits
> > wiederzubekommen, ist verständlich und ich denke, das können wir auch
> > umzusetzen versuchen.
>
> Kann ich auch verstehen, dass er das gerne behoben sehen würde, aber
> macht das die Sache nicht nur noch komplizierter als sie schon ist?
>
> > Ich kümmere mich darum, wenn ich von ihm
> > entsprechende Infos bekomme (z.B. "alles Edits in St. Johann, die nicht
> > Hausnummern betreffen" oder so).
>
> Ja ohne Infos von JH würde ich hier eher nix machen.
> Sicher sind jetzt vielleicht nützliche und korrekte Infos von ihm
> verschwunden, aber sehe es nicht ein, dass sich andere als er darum
> kümmern müssen, herauszufinden, was per Import und was manuell
> eingearbeitet wurde.
>
> > Der Revert war ja recht großzügig,
> > vorallem halt, weil er die gleichen Accounts für Importe/mechanische
> > Edits und für "normale" Edits genutzt hat.


Hier macht geologist eine Falschbehauptung, ist sowas wirklich notwendig?



> >
> > Den beleidigenden Kommentar habe ich entfernt.
>
> schade das so was notwendig ist, danke
>
> lg
> geologist
>
>

-- 
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Innsbruckerstraße 42
6380 St. Johann in Tirol
ÖSTERREICH
Tel: +43 664/174 7414
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[talk-cz] Problém s navigací - Černý Důl

[Marián Kyral]

Ahoj,
Nevíte někdo, proč mě OsmAnd tlačí v Černém dole ( 50.63496° N, 15.71060° E ) 
touhle "zkratkou"? https://photos.app.goo.gl/s6qyZjXxCytWjY1i7

Díky,
Marián

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[stevea]

Right (or nearly right, imo), Kathy:  thank you for your reply.

I didn't say OSM absolutely DOES have high quality.  In my last decade of 
mapping here, I certainly have seen it get better (in pockets) as well as worse 
(in smaller pockets), so on the whole, it gets better / higher quality.  What I 
did say is that OSM absolutely "CAN have high quality without AI."  We must 
strive to do so, knowing that we sometimes miss the mark.  But including AI 
without hawkish attention to quality is folly,

Just because, as you say (and I agree), that "human mappers have not been able 
to produce high quality maps worldwide" doesn't mean that we can't, we simply 
must strive to do better.  And we do.  And we should using available tools like 
AI, though if we do, we absolutely must include a strong component of 
human-oriented quality assurance right at the forefront of doing so.

It sounds like we largely agree.  Provided we keep quality at the top of our 
consciousness as we do so, whether we use AI or not.

I appreciate the opportunity to share dialog,
SteveA

> On Jul 31, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Kathleen Lu  wrote:
> 
> I agree that human wisdom is critical to high quality, and AI isn't useful 
> if, at the end of the process, it doesn't produce quality output, but I will 
> challenge this statement: "you can have high quality without AI." I don't 
> think that's definitively true for a global map. It's very difficult to keep 
> something at that scale that is constantly changing up to date, and while OSM 
> is very high quality in some areas, human mappers have not been able to 
> produce high quality maps worldwide. Corporations that use traditional survey 
> techniques also have a lot of difficulty even while spending $$$ (and many if 
> not all of them are also using AI). AI can augment human mapping in ways to 
> make scale more manageable, and I think both will be needed to make a 
> worldwide high quality map.  
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:26 AM stevea  wrote:
> Oops, "social conscience." (not conscious)
> SteveA
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Kathleen Lu via talk]

I agree that human wisdom is critical to high quality, and AI isn't useful
if, at the end of the process, it doesn't produce quality output, but I
will challenge this statement: "you can have high quality without AI." I
don't think that's definitively true for a global map. It's very difficult
to keep something at that scale that is constantly changing up to date, and
while OSM is very high quality in some areas, human mappers have not been
able to produce high quality maps worldwide. Corporations that use
traditional survey techniques also have a lot of difficulty even while
spending $$$ (and many if not all of them are also using AI). AI can
augment human mapping in ways to make scale more manageable, and I think
both will be needed to make a worldwide high quality map.


On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:26 AM stevea  wrote:

> Oops, "social conscience." (not conscious)
> SteveA
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] How to Fix a "Fix-Me"

[SK53]

Hi Peter,

These very much look like fixmes which got forgotten. They do not show up
directly in many editors (and only recently in iD). In this case all the
ones you mention look to have been fully resolved by the existing mapping.
In that case it's safe just to remove the fixmes, which is good because it
stops others thinking this area needs a visit.

Obviously not every case is likely to be so clear cut. I suspect many of us
leave fixme tags if we are not absolutely sure that they have been
resolved: a false positive signal is better than a false negative one.
However, with more in-editor QA we may need to be more pro-active in
checking for fixmes which are no longer relevant.

It's always a good policy if unsure to start a discussion on the changeset
where the fixme tags were created. Often fixme tags are somewhat terse. A
direct question to the original author may elicit which information they
really felt they were lacking at the time. For instance in a case like this
I presume aerial imagery with the new roads was not available, or that it
only showed the area during construction. If someone walked or cycled
through to get GPS tracks they may not have been able to survey many of the
nuances of the site.

Personally I try and add multiple source tags to give an idea of what
information I used. For instance I have recently been adding footpaths
which I have seen leading of country roads in Yorkshire & Denbighshire. I
know where the path starts, what type of PRoW the path is and roughly where
it heads. Additional information I cull from old out-of-copyright maps &
aerial images, so the actual true alignment of the path is always an
approximation. If someone walks the path, GPS traces become available etc,
then the fixme can be removed & the source:geometry tag updated.

Regards,

Jerry

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 at 18:43, Peter Neale via Talk-GB <
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> If this is not the correct place / route to seek assistance with this
> issue, please advise me where to go.
>
> I see that, on a new housing estate near me, there are a number of "Fix
> Me" tags on highway=residential, which I would like to fix.
>
> The tags all say, "noexit? turning_circle? stub?"
>
> These are all streets that link to only one other highway, mostly
> highway=tertiary (i.e. they are cul de sacs / dead ends).
>
> Where the highway=residential is mapped as a single line, I can see that
> it would be sensible to mark whether there is a turning circle, or turning
> loop, at the end and, if there is no exit by vehicle, bicycle, or on foot,
> to mark it as "noexit".
>
> However, where there is a turning loop, which is already mapped as a
> looped highway, I don't understand what the "FixMe" is asking for.  See,
> for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111774622
>
> Acording to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dturning_loop
> ,
>
> "Draw a closed highway=* way around the traffic island and connect it to
> the main road, giving it the same name. If traffic is required to flow in a
> particular direction around the traffic island, add oneway=yes. This method
> is preferred for large turning circles, because navigation applications
> decide whether the user is on- or off-route based on their distance from
> the roadway. This method also makes it possible to accurately map features
> inside the loop, such as parking spaces, trees, or a flagpole.
> If a turning loop has been mapped as a way, do not remap it as a simple
> node, as that would remove detail from the map."
>
> Are these "FixMe"s generated automatically?  Can I just delete the "FixMe"
> in these cases?
>
> I would be grateful for any advice.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-cat] Importació centres docents a Catalunya

[Lanxana .]

Bones,

moltes gràcies Víctor pel llistat, comparar les dues bases ens servirà per
saber com de ben situats estan els centres al llistat de la Generalitat,
que encara recordo d'algun altre llistat, centres que anaven a parar al mig
del mar per errors a les coordenades...
El que aniria bé també és veure per quin motiu estan duplicats els centres
al llistat de la Generalitat i definir els criteris per eliminar-los.

Sobre el que dius, yopaseopor, comptava amb poder fer servir el gestor de
tasques per coordinar la feina. Caldrà veure com fem els grups de punts. A
una ciutat pots dir "faig paquets de X punts" i ja, però amb tot el
territori també caldrà tenir en compte proximitat entre els punts, i tampoc
podem dividir en una quadrícula exacta perquè ens podem trobar zones amb 10
centres i zones amb 200... A veure quina dispersió hi ha i quina és la
millor manera d'agrupar-los... em sona que hi ha algun algoritme a QGIS que
permet fer-ho.

Us convido a anar pensant en l'etiquetat que els hi posarem (els obvis de
name, amenity, addr:*, contact:*... i altres no tan directes, com edats i
el o els "isced levels"), de cara a que l'script primer depuri i després
afegeixi les etiquetes OSM.

Si no hi ha cap canvi, aquest cap de setmana m'hi podré dedicar una
estona.

Anem parlant!

El mié., 31 jul. 2019 a las 12:55, yo paseopor ()
escribió:

> Si sabem zonificar-ho per fer tota aquesta feinada podem fer servir el
> gestor de tasques de la comunitat espanyola. És des d'on gestionem les
> importacions de cadastre o el SIGPAC de 2019 per a Catalunya.
> http://tareas.openstreetmap.es
>
> Salut i mapes
> yopaseopor
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:48 PM Victor  wrote:
>
>> He fet una primera prova de aparellar els centres descarregats del OSM
>> amb el llistat de la generalitat mitjançat la proximitat per coordenades, o
>> sigui els que estan a menys d'uns 300m aproximadament.  I he generat un csv
>> amb els nom i municipi del centre al OSM i el nom i municipi al csv de la
>> generalitat:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17x1Q1w6oQGdGT6Bh6Qdv-ehtF1QmaPg6/view?usp=sharing
>>
>> Molts coincideixen mes o menys, alguns deuen ser fals positius degut a
>> escoles i instituts que estan tocant, etc.   Molts no tenen cap nom al OSM,
>> ara amb aixo es podrien completar facilment.
>> I de moment per anar rapid nomes ho he fet amb nodes, que ja venen amb
>> les coordenades. Per poligons i relacions quan tingui una estona mes. I
>> afegint escoles bressol tambe.
>>
>> Aquests serien els centres que apareixen als dos llocs, per coordenades.
>> Tambe tinc els que estan a gencat pero encara no estan a OSM. I viceversa,
>> algun que hagi deixat de ser escola.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

[ael]

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 01:12:24PM +0100, Dave F via Talk-GB wrote:
> 
> Trades will occasionally have small items delivered, especially if
> specialized or in an emergency.  A foreman I know had his kid's Christmas
> present sent to site to keep the surprise.
> 
> Please provide an OSM link to the site.

Already given in another reply:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/71388804#map=16/51.7817/-1.5188

Having refreshed my memory, they explicitly stated that it was from
Maxar Premium Imagery (Beta).

If you look at that imagery, it is pretty obvious that those roads are
no more than construction tracks as yet. Nearly the whole of that site
was mapped before any imagery was available from multiple visits with
fairly accurate gps.  Those gps tracks are public and can be inspected.
It is overdue for another visit.

ael


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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

[ael]

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 04:20:31PM +0100, ajt1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 29/07/2019 11:21, ael wrote:
> > In the case that I mentioned, it was certainly not from their own GPS
> > logs.
> 
> A few examples I came across while looking at these with a DWG hat on were
> also not from GPS logs.  In one case Amazon would have had to have been
> delivering by tractor; in another the actual building they would have been
> delivering to was first mapped in 2013 and was derelict then.
> 
> What I suspect that they were doing was "doing other mapping while they were
> in the area" (which to be fair is pretty much what nearly everyone else does
> too).

Indeed. My case was
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/71388804#map=16/51.7817/-1.5188,
and as I said Amazon replied and adjusted.
They said explicitly that it was from "Maxar Premium Imagery (Beta)".

ael


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[Talk-GB] How to Fix a "Fix-Me"

[Peter Neale via Talk-GB]

If this is not the correct place / route to seek assistance with this issue, 
please advise me where to go.
I see that, on a new housing estate near me, there are a number of "Fix Me" 
tags on highway=residential, which I would like to fix.  

The tags all say, "noexit? turning_circle? stub?"
These are all streets that link to only one other highway, mostly 
highway=tertiary (i.e. they are cul de sacs / dead ends).
Where the highway=residential is mapped as a single line, I can see that it 
would be sensible to mark whether there is a turning circle, or turning loop, 
at the end and, if there is no exit by vehicle, bicycle, or on foot, to mark it 
as "noexit".  
However, where there is a turning loop, which is already mapped as a looped 
highway, I don't understand what the "FixMe" is asking for.  See, for example 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5111774622
Acording to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dturning_loop, 
"Draw a closed highway=* way around the traffic island and connect it to the 
main road, giving it the same name. If traffic is required to flow in a 
particular direction around the traffic island, add oneway=yes. This method is 
preferred for large turning circles, because navigation applications decide 
whether the user is on- or off-route based on their distance from the roadway. 
This method also makes it possible to accurately map features inside the loop, 
such as parking spaces, trees, or a flagpole.If a turning loop has been mapped 
as a way, do not remap it as a simple node, as that would remove detail from 
the map."
Are these "FixMe"s generated automatically?  Can I just delete the "FixMe" in 
these cases?
I would be grateful for any advice.
Peter


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[Talk-us] Next Virtual Mappy Hour - August 12

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi all, 

The next Virtual Mappy Hour will be on August 12 at 6pm Pacific Time. Find all 
the details and a sign-up link on the wiki[1].

Let me know if you want to do a 5 minute presentation about any OSM related 
topic. Doesn't have to be anything big or fancy. We love to hear what you are 
working on.

I hope to see you there.

Martijn

[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Virtual_Mappy_Hours#Schedule
 
-- 
  Martijn van Exel
  m...@rtijn.org

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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[stevea]

Oops, "social conscience." (not conscious)
SteveA


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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[stevea]

I believe introducing into OSM technologies based in AI / machine learning 
REQUIRES a concomitant discussion about how the data WILL BE high quality, 
because they are quality assured (and perhaps here is a brief sketch of our QA 
process, or a pointer thereto).  Anything less feels disingenuous to me, as 
well as logically appears to be a false choice.  To say "quality issues are a 
seperate issue" (sic) seems an insult to OSM and indeed the very introduction 
of the AI technologies themselves to our project.

It is early (well, "earlier") days for these technologies as they are being 
built and deployed today, and while many (myself included) agree they can be 
useful and have their place, they MUST be accompanied by a social conscious as 
we do so.  OSM already has strong tenets like community-developed consensus to 
create such a social conscious, so deploying AI without eyes wide open and a 
firm hand on the tiller is nothing less than insanity doomed to failure.  The 
least we can do is to strongly couple discussions of quality with AI 
deployments, rather than divorcing them by declaring them "simply 
announcement."  I know that whenever I hear such "announcements" without any 
discussion of how quality will be assured that it is time to be immediately 
skeptical.  Please, let's keep AI on track by coupling it with discussions of 
quality, not making them separate issues, because truly, they are not.  Simply 
wishing that we can separate AI and quality will only more firmly entrench 
those of us who know to keep them together:  you can have high quality without 
AI, but you really shouldn't have AI without high quality.  Not as long as 
human wisdom is present and has something to say about it.

Not to put it too dramatically:  do we really want to hasten "the robots are 
taking over" by taking the throttle off, by ignoring or diminishing the 
importance of quality and its discernment by humans?  Of course not. 

SteveA

> On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:27 AM, Florian Lohoff  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:41:17AM +0200, Michael Kugelmann wrote:
>> Am 25.07.2019 um 11:36 schrieb Florian Lohoff:
>>> And IIRC it was about a
>>> collaboration with the local community in Thailand which their first aim
>>> was.
>> I just remember that the "collaboration" in Thailand some time ago
>> (might be years) was quite poor: by using AI generated data simply
>> thrown into the database they destroyed a lot of craft-mapped data. But
>> unfortunately I am not aware how this evolved and about the current
>> situation. That's the background why I would be very cautious about such
>> "collaboration statements".
> 
> The point was not about quality but about announcement and speaking up
> publicly about it. 
> 
> And Facebook did - loud and clear for everyone to hear - Quality
> issues are a seperate issue. I am pretty shure that AI can not replace
> human, on the ground, observation. It can help identify places to
> visit.
> 
> Flo
> -- 
> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away
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Re: [Talk-it] Quesito stabile nuovo da mappare

[Gruppo Mòcheni 3 . 0]

GRAZI


Il giorno mer 31 lug 2019 alle ore 09:55 Lorenzo Beltrami <
lorenzo.b...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Il giorno mar 30 lug 2019 alle ore 21:07 Gruppo Mòcheni 3.0 <
> mocheni...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Innanzitutto grazie infinite e chiediamo scusa, ancora.
>>
> Grazie a voi di partecipare!
> Inoltre sbagliare è assolutamente normale ed essendo la mappa
> (ri)modificabile non c'è problema alcuno. ;-)
>
> Non riusciamo a capire una cosa:
>> quando mappiamo una abitazione privata, non va messa la dicitura
>> "abitazione"?
>>
> Corretto: la dicitura non va messa sul singolo elemento della mappa.
> Per indicare che si tratta di un'abitazione basta mettere il giusto valore
> nella chiave "building". Usando l'editor predefinito del sito (che si
> chiama iD) basta indicarla come "Casa" o "Appartamenti" e lui compila in
> automatico la chiave "building" rispettivamente con "house" o "apartments"
> (lo si vede espandendo sulla destra la sezione "Tutti i tag").
>
> se vogliamo salvare, però, ci obbliga a scrivere qualcosa nel *"commento
>> del gruppo di modifiche"*, ..
>>
> Il commento al gruppo modifiche è molto importante ed è un riassunto di
> tutto quello che si è fatto dall'ultimo salvataggio. Ad esempio "Aggiunti
> edifici mancanti" o "Aggiunto centro polifunzionale Fierozzo".
> Trovate più info su questo argomento sempre sul wiki a questa pagina:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Good_changeset_comments
>
> A) Cosa non abbiamo capito?
>>
> Basta tenere in mente che OSM è più un archivio (database) che una cartina
> (immagine).
> Modificando OSM si va a modificare l'archivio (l'elenco di tutti gli
> elementi presenti nel mondo) da cui poi si ricavano le mappe visive (come
> quella/e che si vedono sul sito ufficiale, ma è solo un esempio possono
> essere veramente tante e partono tutte dallo stesso database!).
>
> Un'altra cosa importante per contribuire in maniera corretta e ad un
> livello più avanzato è capire come funziona OSM.
> A grandi linee si può dire che tramite alcuni editor (iD, quello sul sito,
> non è l'unico) si vanno a modificare gli elementi sulla mappa (poligoni,
> punti, linee o relazioni che includono i precedenti) aggiungendo a loro
> delle etichette per descrivere di cosa si trattano.
> Ma i link che vi hanno consigliato affrontano benissimo e più nel
> dettaglio la questione. :-P
>
> B) Le case vanno mappate, ma non vanno nominate?
>>
> Le case vanno mappate e questo basta a descriverle in quanto tali, il nome
> (da non confondere con la descrizione) va indicato solamente se è presente
> (il campo nome è un po' delicato e complesso per cui viene molto discusso,
> trovate più info qua: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Key:name).
> Vedendola al contrario per trovare tutte le abitazioni della mappa mi
> basterà cercare tutti gli elementi con "building=house" e non quelli che
> indicano "Abitazione" nel nome.
>
> C) I sentieri vanno tracciati, ma non nominati?
>>
> I sentieri sono un po' più complicati da inserire rispetto agli edifici;
> ci sono tutta una serie di regole, qua in Italia definite assieme al CAI,
> da rispettare.
> Le potete trovare qua: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CAI
> Personalmente mi sento di consigliarvi di fare un po' di esperienza e poi
> di affrontare il discorso sentieri quando vi sentirete più a vostro agio.
> :-)
>
> D) dovendo mappare un nuovo edificio (centro polifunzionale di Fierozzo)
>> che su openstreet non appare ancora, come possiamo fare?
>>
> Qua bisogna snocciolare meglio la questione perché "polifunzionale" può
> voler dire un sacco di cose...
> Nello specifico cosa viene fatto dentro questo edificio? Sport? Servizi?
> Si potrebbe disegnare l'edificio trovando un valore adatto per la chiave
> "building" e quindi inserire come singoli punti i vari
> servizi/attività/entità che ci operano dentro.
>
> Ciao!
> Lorenzo
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Re: [Talk-es] Cómo mapear una plaza de toros

[dcapillae]

Buenas tarde.

Otras dos opciones que se me ocurren para etiquetar una plaza de toros
podrían ser:

leisure=stadium
stadium=bullring (en lugar de «bull_ring»)

O bien,

leisure=stadium
sport=bullfighting

Quizás la última sea la mejor opción, incluso mejor que «stadium=bull_ring»
(o «bullring»), ya que emplea dos etiqueta altamente utilizada,
«leisure=stadium» y «sport=bullfighting». Dudo de si el par de etiquetas
«leisure=stadium» y «sport=bullfighting» es suficiente para identificar una
plaza de toros en cuanto tal. Un «stadium=bull_ring», sin embargo, no deja
lugar a dudas.

Atentamente,
Daniel



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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

[Andy Robinson]

Thanks Andy, that provides some useful context. As others have also pointed out 
new data is generally good for OSM and we can't expect all users to ever get 
all the tags right on a first pass. I'll be keeping a closer eye in my area and 
will make direct contact with mappers who seem to be routinely missing the 
important point. My biggest concern was your noted "adding connectivity where 
there isn't any public connectivity" point. It's almost impossible to see if a 
service road (especially private driveways) has any access rights without being 
on the ground and even then it might not say. Even a gps trace doesn’t confirm 
that there was permission to travel, just that they did. The question is 
whether it's better to have connectivity implied within the OSM database or to 
leave it out of OSM until you have a better understanding on the ground.

Cheers
Andy

-Original Message-
From: ajt1...@gmail.com [mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 31 July 2019 15:53
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

On 29/07/2019 09:35, Andy Robinson wrote:
> I've just looked at a number of Amazon Logistics in my local area

Just to give everyone a bit of a heads-up about the DWG's involvement 
here - we got a number of messages about Amazon's mapping.  The biggest 
immediate problem was their use of "motor_vehicle=yes" on 
"highway=track" regardless of the actual legal access status.  To cut a 
long story short, they have removed this where they've blanket added it, 
and have since asked exactly how to map sort of thing (at 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jguthula/diary/390322 and elsewhere).

The list of Amazon editors is quite long - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Amazon_Logistics#Editors - and not 
all are active in the UK.  I used overpass queries like 
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Lea to check the edits.  With regard to the 
"motor_vehicle=yes" issue, I contacted each of the Amazon mappers active 
in the UK individually rather than going through a "manager" to try and 
get them talking to the local community.  In order to get from edits 
there to changeset discussion comments, click on an object on that map, 
then on the changeset, then "changeset XML" and copy the "uid=" value 
and use it in a URL such as 
resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=9310279 .

One other issue that people have raised with these edits have been 
"adding connectivity where there isn't any public connectivity" (i.e. 
adding a "highway=service" or "highway=track" that is in reality a 
private farm track, that connects two public roads).  Personally I 
wouldn't assume that either of these had public access in England and 
Wales* (Scotland has a different legal system), and I don't think that 
we can blame Amazon for adding missing geometry but only some missing 
tags.  Local mappers will still be needed to add these.  Amazon editors 
tend to have their own "local area" so a variation of the overpass query 
above can be used to identify newly added objects - I'm sure that some 
people will be able to use local knowledge to say "well obviously way 
XYZ should be access=private" and similar.

While looking at these issues I did notice quite a few other tracks and 
rural service roads (driveways etc.) where the access tags looked a bit 
unlikely - and there are of course many examples were designations 
haven't been added (where that isn't open data, that needs survey).  I 
notice that someone from the National Trust has written a diary entry 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AJW92/diary/390378 to discuss how to 
tag England and Wales "rights of way" designations.

Best Regards,

Andy (from the DWG)

* I'd suggest that it's also not correct to tag "access=private" on 
newly traced farm etc. tracks - if the example above 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/120277748 is a "byway open to all 
traffic" then access=yes or motor_vehicle=yes on there will be correct, 
and "private" would be wrong (TROs notwithstanding).




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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 29/07/2019 11:21, ael wrote:
In the case that I mentioned, it was certainly not from their own GPS 
logs.


A few examples I came across while looking at these with a DWG hat on 
were also not from GPS logs.  In one case Amazon would have had to have 
been delivering by tractor; in another the actual building they would 
have been delivering to was first mapped in 2013 and was derelict then.


What I suspect that they were doing was "doing other mapping while they 
were in the area" (which to be fair is pretty much what nearly everyone 
else does too).


Best Regards,

Andy



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[Talk-es] Cómo mapear una plaza de toros

[dcapillae]

Buenas tardes.

Recupero este hilo antiguo para recomendar la mejor forma de etiquetar una
plaza de toros.

Los mapeadores parecen estar usando actualmente dos alternativas: algunos
optan directamente por «leisure=bullring», con 49 coincidencia en Taginfo
(2019-07-31). Otros prefieren un etiquetado escalonado con «leisure=stadium»
junto con «stadium=bull_ring», con 2 coincidencias en Taginfo (2019-07-31).
Esta última opción parecer ser la que recomienda el editor iD, si bien su
uso no está muy extendido porque los mapeadores no mapean tan en detalle las
plazas de toros. Hay muchas plazas de toros mapeadas simplemente como
«leisure=stadium» y a las que les falta «stadium=bull_ring». No sabría decir
cuántas, pero imagino que deben superar en número a las etiquetadas como
«leisure=bullring».

Respecto a qué etiquetas usar, convendría aclarar que hay que etiquetar tres
elementos distintos en una plaza de toros: la plaza de toros en sí misma; el
edificio donde se sitúan las gradas, las puertas de acceso y demás
dependencias anexas; y la arena del ruedo.

Si tenemos en cuenta que la tauromaquia está considerada un deporte
(«sport=bullfighting», actualmente en uso), recomendaría el siguiente
etiquetado mínimo para cada elemento:

Etiquetas para la plaza de toros:
leisure=stadium
stadium=bull_ring

Etiquetas para el edificio:
building=stadium
sport=bullfighting

Arena del ruedo:
leisure=pitch
sport=bullfighting

Si la plaza cuenta con una entrada en Wikipedia o con un elemento Wikidata,
las etiquetas correspondientes deberían situarse en el elemento etiquetado
como «leisure=stadium». No se deben colocar en el edificio ni en el ruedo,
que son partes de la instalación, sino propiamente en el elemento que
identifica la característica como una plaza de toros («leisure=stadium» +
«stadium=bull_ring»).

Añado esta recomendación a la página «Cómo mapear un» para su discusión. [1]

Atentamente,

Daniel


[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Espa%C3%B1a/C%C3%B3mo_mapear_un#Plaza_de_toros



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Re: [Talk-GB] Amazon Logistics edits

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 29/07/2019 09:35, Andy Robinson wrote:

I've just looked at a number of Amazon Logistics in my local area


Just to give everyone a bit of a heads-up about the DWG's involvement 
here - we got a number of messages about Amazon's mapping.  The biggest 
immediate problem was their use of "motor_vehicle=yes" on 
"highway=track" regardless of the actual legal access status.  To cut a 
long story short, they have removed this where they've blanket added it, 
and have since asked exactly how to map sort of thing (at 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jguthula/diary/390322 and elsewhere).


The list of Amazon editors is quite long - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Amazon_Logistics#Editors - and not 
all are active in the UK.  I used overpass queries like 
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Lea to check the edits.  With regard to the 
"motor_vehicle=yes" issue, I contacted each of the Amazon mappers active 
in the UK individually rather than going through a "manager" to try and 
get them talking to the local community.  In order to get from edits 
there to changeset discussion comments, click on an object on that map, 
then on the changeset, then "changeset XML" and copy the "uid=" value 
and use it in a URL such as 
resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=9310279 .


One other issue that people have raised with these edits have been 
"adding connectivity where there isn't any public connectivity" (i.e. 
adding a "highway=service" or "highway=track" that is in reality a 
private farm track, that connects two public roads).  Personally I 
wouldn't assume that either of these had public access in England and 
Wales* (Scotland has a different legal system), and I don't think that 
we can blame Amazon for adding missing geometry but only some missing 
tags.  Local mappers will still be needed to add these.  Amazon editors 
tend to have their own "local area" so a variation of the overpass query 
above can be used to identify newly added objects - I'm sure that some 
people will be able to use local knowledge to say "well obviously way 
XYZ should be access=private" and similar.


While looking at these issues I did notice quite a few other tracks and 
rural service roads (driveways etc.) where the access tags looked a bit 
unlikely - and there are of course many examples were designations 
haven't been added (where that isn't open data, that needs survey).  I 
notice that someone from the National Trust has written a diary entry 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AJW92/diary/390378 to discuss how to 
tag England and Wales "rights of way" designations.


Best Regards,

Andy (from the DWG)

* I'd suggest that it's also not correct to tag "access=private" on 
newly traced farm etc. tracks - if the example above 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/120277748 is a "byway open to all 
traffic" then access=yes or motor_vehicle=yes on there will be correct, 
and "private" would be wrong (TROs notwithstanding).





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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Florian Lohoff]

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:41:17AM +0200, Michael Kugelmann wrote:
> Am 25.07.2019 um 11:36 schrieb Florian Lohoff:
> > And IIRC it was about a
> > collaboration with the local community in Thailand which their first aim
> > was.
> I just remember that the "collaboration" in Thailand some time ago
> (might be years) was quite poor: by using AI generated data simply
> thrown into the database they destroyed a lot of craft-mapped data. But
> unfortunately I am not aware how this evolved and about the current
> situation. That's the background why I would be very cautious about such
> "collaboration statements".

The point was not about quality but about announcement and speaking up
publicly about it. 

And Facebook did - loud and clear for everyone to hear - Quality
issues are a seperate issue. I am pretty shure that AI can not replace
human, on the ground, observation. It can help identify places to
visit.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away


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Re: [Talk-it] Quesito stabile nuovo da mappare

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 31. Jul 2019, at 14:04, Andrea Musuruane  wrote:
> 
> Martin, mi puoi dare la tua definizione di indirizzo?


cito la wikipedia italiana, mi sembra abbastanza giusto:

> L'indirizzo è la serie di informazioni, presentate in un formato codificato, 
> necessaria per definire la localizzazione di un edificio o di una struttura. 
> 
> È generalmente costituito dal nome del destinatario, da quello assegnato 
> all'infrastruttura su cui sorge l'edificio (via, viale, piazza, corso ecc.) 
> con suo eventuale numero civico, e dal nome della città e della nazione. A 
> queste informazioni solitamente viene aggiunto anche il codice postale che 
> prende nomi diversi a seconda dei paesi: in Italia è conosciuto come CAP
> 

La differenza tra indirizzo e civico è che il civico esiste una sola volta, e 
in Italia descrive la posizione di un ingresso (porta/cancello/possibile 
ingresso/etc), mentre lo stesso indirizzo può apparire infinite volte (per ogni 
abitante, struttura, esercizio raggiungibile a questo civico).

In Italia purtroppo siamo nella posizione di dover ripetere gli indirizzi per 
ogni feature che mettiamo, perché essendo i civici assegnati a punti non 
possiamo ereditare l’indirizzo dal civico, al meno per il momento che ci 
limitiamo a mappare civici puntuali e non creiamo relazioni alle aree di cui si 
accede tramite questo civico.

Un’altra alternativa che viene proposta da alcuni mappatori è di creare errori 
topologici apposta mettendo gli POI sul l’ingresso (“funziona” solo con 1 POI 
però). Anche qui con più di un POI si deve mettere lo stesso indirizzo su più 
elementi.

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Re: [Talk-it] Quesito stabile nuovo da mappare

[Andrea Musuruane]

Martin, mi puoi dare la tua definizione di indirizzo?

Grazie,

Andrea


Il mer 31 lug 2019, 10:04 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 30. Jul 2019, at 18:27, Francesco Ansanelli 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ciao Martin,
> > Mi spiace contraddirti, ma sono d'accordo con Andrea, ma solo per
> l'Italia dove il civico rappresenta un ingresso e non uno stabile.
>
>
>
> non ho scritto che un civico rappresentasse un stabile, ho scritto che ci
> sono degli oggetti poligonali che hanno indirizzi, anche in Italia.
>
> Ciao Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Epreuve Cyclo-randonnée Paris-Brest-Paris dans OSM

[Vincent de Château-Thierry]

Bonjour,

> De: "Phyks" 
> 
> * J'ai supprimé les relations, dans
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/72847934.
> * J'ai déplacé les tracés dans une Umap, ici
> https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/paris-brest-paris-randonneur_351758

Merci pour le suivi,
vincent

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[talk-au] Road hierarchy in Western Australia

[Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) via Talk-au]

According to:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines ,
https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Documents/Road%20Hierarchy%20Criteria%20-%20April%202011.u_3158367r_1n_D11%5E2392185.PDF
https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Documents/About%20the%20Western%20Australian%20Road%20Hierarchy%20-%20Website%20version.u_2933434r_1n_D10%5E23234999.PDF
https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/BuildingRoads/StandardsTechnical/RoadandTrafficEngineering/TrafficManagement/DirectionalSignsGuidelines/Pages/Guidelines_for_Direction_Signs_in_the_Perth_Metropolitan_Area.aspx
Primary distributor roads should be mapped as motorway, trunk or primary roads 
in OSM,
Regional distributor roads should be mapped as trunk, primary or secondary 
roads in OSM,
Distributor A roads should be mapped as primary or secondary roads in OSM,
Distributor B roads should be mapped as secondary or tertiary roads in OSM,
Local distributor roads should be mapped as tertiary roads in OSM.

Comparing https://catalogue.data.wa.gov.au/dataset/road-hierarchy dataset with 
current OSM data there is about 2000 roads that do not match above mentioned 
criteria (of which 1500 are local distributors, so higher classification roads 
are mapped very good according to gov data).
Correcting road hierarchy on these roads seems reasonable, so all the data will 
then be unified, but I would appreciate your thoughts about this first. It 
would be nice if mappers from WA can give their thoughts about this. This can 
be done in a week and does not require some huge data correction but will 
correct routing in whole Western Australia.

Some examples:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=21/-31.5701521/116.479
Toodyay Road is a State Route 50, leading to Perth, and it is mapped as primary 
road, but Northam-Toodyay Road is a State Route 120, leading to Northam, and it 
is mapped as secondary. Both look the same and are state route roads, so this 
one should also be primary, especially because when it enters Northam it is 
already mapped as primary. Following this route, you will find that Forrest 
Street is set as trunk which is wrong because it becomes trunk from Peel 
Terrace - Taylor Street junction.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=22/-32.89686974020933/115.90544892845668
Here Willowdale Road should be secondary or not?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=22/-32.89686974020933/115.90544892845668
Here Nanga Road changes classification on Murray Bridge, but is should keep it 
as secondary?

Thanks,
Aleksandar
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Track -> Chemin rural

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 31/07/2019 à 12:30, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :


- usage général -> highway=unclassified


C'est le cas.

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Re: [Talk-cat] Importació centres docents a Catalunya

[yo paseopor]

Si sabem zonificar-ho per fer tota aquesta feinada podem fer servir el
gestor de tasques de la comunitat espanyola. És des d'on gestionem les
importacions de cadastre o el SIGPAC de 2019 per a Catalunya.
http://tareas.openstreetmap.es

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:48 PM Victor  wrote:

> He fet una primera prova de aparellar els centres descarregats del OSM amb
> el llistat de la generalitat mitjançat la proximitat per coordenades, o
> sigui els que estan a menys d'uns 300m aproximadament.  I he generat un csv
> amb els nom i municipi del centre al OSM i el nom i municipi al csv de la
> generalitat:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17x1Q1w6oQGdGT6Bh6Qdv-ehtF1QmaPg6/view?usp=sharing
>
> Molts coincideixen mes o menys, alguns deuen ser fals positius degut a
> escoles i instituts que estan tocant, etc.   Molts no tenen cap nom al OSM,
> ara amb aixo es podrien completar facilment.
> I de moment per anar rapid nomes ho he fet amb nodes, que ja venen amb les
> coordenades. Per poligons i relacions quan tingui una estona mes. I afegint
> escoles bressol tambe.
>
> Aquests serien els centres que apareixen als dos llocs, per coordenades.
> Tambe tinc els que estan a gencat pero encara no estan a OSM. I viceversa,
> algun que hagi deixat de ser escola.
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Re: [Talk-cat] Importació centres docents a Catalunya

[Victor]

He fet una primera prova de aparellar els centres descarregats del OSM amb
el llistat de la generalitat mitjançat la proximitat per coordenades, o
sigui els que estan a menys d'uns 300m aproximadament.  I he generat un csv
amb els nom i municipi del centre al OSM i el nom i municipi al csv de la
generalitat:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17x1Q1w6oQGdGT6Bh6Qdv-ehtF1QmaPg6/view?usp=sharing

Molts coincideixen mes o menys, alguns deuen ser fals positius degut a
escoles i instituts que estan tocant, etc.   Molts no tenen cap nom al OSM,
ara amb aixo es podrien completar facilment.
I de moment per anar rapid nomes ho he fet amb nodes, que ja venen amb les
coordenades. Per poligons i relacions quan tingui una estona mes. I afegint
escoles bressol tambe.

Aquests serien els centres que apareixen als dos llocs, per coordenades.
Tambe tinc els que estan a gencat pero encara no estan a OSM. I viceversa,
algun que hagi deixat de ser escola.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Track -> Chemin rural

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Le 31/07/2019 à 11:15, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :



est revêtu d'asphalte et en état plutôt satisfaisant utlisation voiture 
sans aucun problème même si un peu étroit.


Peut-on le passer en « Chemin rural » ou est-ce
le cadastre qui commande ?



Bonjour,

C'est l'usage du chemin, et non son état, qui détermine son type OSM:
- usage agricole ou forestier -> highway=track
- usage général -> highway=unclassified

Jean-Claude



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Track -> Chemin rural

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 31/07/2019 à 11:21, marc marc a écrit :

Bonjour,



surface=asphalt smoothness=good


Ok. C'est fait.



highway=track est un chemin, du coup je ne comprend pas
en quoi tu veux le changer


Pas très engageant quad tu prépares un itinéraire.

Comment est-il routé ?


il donne des pistes, sans jeux de mot :)


;)


Cordialeent,
Marc


Jacques

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Epreuve Cyclo-randonnée Paris-Brest-Paris dans OSM

[Phyks]

Finalement, ma modification précédente n'était pas suffisante. Vu que je
n'ai pas de nouvelles de l'auteur initial et qu'il y avait plutôt
consensus pour la suppression,

* J'ai supprimé les relations, dans
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/72847934.
* J'ai déplacé les tracés dans une Umap, ici
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/paris-brest-paris-randonneur_351758
-- 
Phyks

Le 15/07/2019 à 14:30, Vincent de Château-Thierry a écrit :
> 
>> De: "Phyks" 
>>
>> Dans le cas d'événements ponctuels (et non repérables sur le
>> terrain), je te rejoins et je supprimerais bien.
> 
> D'accord aussi pour la suppression, quitte à transférer le tracé dans umap, 
> bien plus adapté à mettre en scène un tracé lié à un évènement. On pourrait 
> fournir un lien d'édition à l'auteur initial de la relation OSM, pour qu'il 
> puisse maintenir son travail si besoin.
> 
> vincent
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Track -> Chemin rural

[David Crochet]

Bonjour

Le 31/07/2019 à 11:21, marc marc a écrit :

il donne des pistes, sans jeux de mot:)


Les plus de 50 ans comprendrons:

" cinquante francs pour vous monsieur, cent francs pour le nourrin"

Cordialement
--
David Crochet


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Track -> Chemin rural

[marc marc]

Bonjour,

Le 31.07.19 à 11:15, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :
> Ce Chemin : 450089953
> est revêtu d'asphalte et en état plutôt satisfaisant  

surface=asphalt smoothness=good

> utlisation voiture sans aucun problème même si un peu étroit.
> Peut-on le passer en « Chemin rural » 

highway=track est un chemin, du coup je ne comprend pas
en quoi tu veux le changer

> ou est-ce le cadastre qui commande ?

il donne des pistes, sans jeux de mot :)

Cordialeent,
Marc
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[OSM-talk-fr] Track -> Chemin rural

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Bonjour.

Ce Chemin : 450089953
  Jeu de données : 63fa4e63
  Modifié à : 2016-10-29T15:14:06Z
  Modifié par : YogiAngad (4797672)
  Version : 1
  Dans le groupe de modifications : 43267563
  Attributs :
"highway"="track"

est revêtu d'asphalte et en état plutôt satisfaisant utlisation voiture 
sans aucun problème même si un peu étroit.


Peut-on le passer en « Chemin rural » ou est-ce
le cadastre qui commande ?

Ou autre chose ?

J.
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[Talk-cr] Fwd: [talk-latam] semanarioOSM Nº 470 2019-07-16-2019-07-22

[Rodrigo Rodríguez]

Hola, el semanarioOSM Nº 470, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo
en el mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12261/

¡Disfruta!

Dicho sea de paso, cada lanzamiento de weekly OSM incluye mucho trabajo
recurrente y el apoyo siempre es necesario (y agradecido). Toda ayuda es
bienvenida, aún si cuentan con disponibilidad de tiempo limitada. Esto
podría implicar traducir algunas partes o ayudar a corregir los artículos.

Si gustan colaborar con la traducción del SemanarioOSM u otras tareas,
no duden en contactarse al correo theweeklyosm_AT_gmail_DOT_com.

Saludos,
r.


 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [talk-latam] semanarioOSM Nº 470 2019-07-16-2019-07-22
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: theweekly@gmail.com
Reply-To: OpenStreetMap Latinoamérica 
To: talk-la...@openstreetmap.org

Hola, el semanario Nº 470, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en
el mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12261/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con
tu cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí:
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm
semanarioOSM? ¿Dónde?:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages
¿Quién?:
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-at] CS Kommentar durch Problemuser

[Kevin Kofler]

Johann Haag wrote:
> Das mit den „Lichtscheuen Gesindel“ tut mit leid. Ich meinte das
> keinesfalls persönlich sondern synonym für Leute mit keiner ID
> Verschränkung.

Der Begriff "Gesindel" ist dafür absolut inakzeptabel, wird er doch 
hierzulande hauptsächlich von Rassisten benutzt. Zudem unterstellt er 
verbrecherische Absichten.

Kevin Kofler


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Re: [Talk-it] Quesito stabile nuovo da mappare

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

On 31. Jul 2019, at 09:54, Lorenzo Beltrami  wrote:

>> C) I sentieri vanno tracciati, ma non nominati?
> I sentieri sono un po' più complicati da inserire rispetto agli edifici; ci 
> sono tutta una serie di regole, qua in Italia definite assieme al CAI, da 
> rispettare.
> Le potete trovare qua: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CAI
> Personalmente mi sento di consigliarvi di fare un po' di esperienza e poi di 
> affrontare il discorso sentieri quando vi sentirete più a vostro agio. :-)


il sentiero fisico è facile da inserire e potrebbe avere anche nome, cosa può 
sembrare più complicato sono le rotte astratti (relazioni route) che passano 
sopra questi sentieri (e che hanno numero e forse nome).


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Re: [Talk-it] Quesito stabile nuovo da mappare

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 30. Jul 2019, at 18:27, Francesco Ansanelli  wrote:
> 
> Ciao Martin,
> Mi spiace contraddirti, ma sono d'accordo con Andrea, ma solo per l'Italia 
> dove il civico rappresenta un ingresso e non uno stabile.



non ho scritto che un civico rappresentasse un stabile, ho scritto che ci sono 
degli oggetti poligonali che hanno indirizzi, anche in Italia.

Ciao Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Quesito stabile nuovo da mappare

[Lorenzo Beltrami]

Il giorno mar 30 lug 2019 alle ore 21:07 Gruppo Mòcheni 3.0 <
mocheni...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Innanzitutto grazie infinite e chiediamo scusa, ancora.
>
Grazie a voi di partecipare!
Inoltre sbagliare è assolutamente normale ed essendo la mappa
(ri)modificabile non c'è problema alcuno. ;-)

Non riusciamo a capire una cosa:
> quando mappiamo una abitazione privata, non va messa la dicitura
> "abitazione"?
>
Corretto: la dicitura non va messa sul singolo elemento della mappa.
Per indicare che si tratta di un'abitazione basta mettere il giusto valore
nella chiave "building". Usando l'editor predefinito del sito (che si
chiama iD) basta indicarla come "Casa" o "Appartamenti" e lui compila in
automatico la chiave "building" rispettivamente con "house" o "apartments"
(lo si vede espandendo sulla destra la sezione "Tutti i tag").

se vogliamo salvare, però, ci obbliga a scrivere qualcosa nel *"commento
> del gruppo di modifiche"*, ..
>
Il commento al gruppo modifiche è molto importante ed è un riassunto di
tutto quello che si è fatto dall'ultimo salvataggio. Ad esempio "Aggiunti
edifici mancanti" o "Aggiunto centro polifunzionale Fierozzo".
Trovate più info su questo argomento sempre sul wiki a questa pagina:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Good_changeset_comments

A) Cosa non abbiamo capito?
>
Basta tenere in mente che OSM è più un archivio (database) che una cartina
(immagine).
Modificando OSM si va a modificare l'archivio (l'elenco di tutti gli
elementi presenti nel mondo) da cui poi si ricavano le mappe visive (come
quella/e che si vedono sul sito ufficiale, ma è solo un esempio possono
essere veramente tante e partono tutte dallo stesso database!).

Un'altra cosa importante per contribuire in maniera corretta e ad un
livello più avanzato è capire come funziona OSM.
A grandi linee si può dire che tramite alcuni editor (iD, quello sul sito,
non è l'unico) si vanno a modificare gli elementi sulla mappa (poligoni,
punti, linee o relazioni che includono i precedenti) aggiungendo a loro
delle etichette per descrivere di cosa si trattano.
Ma i link che vi hanno consigliato affrontano benissimo e più nel dettaglio
la questione. :-P

B) Le case vanno mappate, ma non vanno nominate?
>
Le case vanno mappate e questo basta a descriverle in quanto tali, il nome
(da non confondere con la descrizione) va indicato solamente se è presente
(il campo nome è un po' delicato e complesso per cui viene molto discusso,
trovate più info qua: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Key:name).
Vedendola al contrario per trovare tutte le abitazioni della mappa mi
basterà cercare tutti gli elementi con "building=house" e non quelli che
indicano "Abitazione" nel nome.

C) I sentieri vanno tracciati, ma non nominati?
>
I sentieri sono un po' più complicati da inserire rispetto agli edifici; ci
sono tutta una serie di regole, qua in Italia definite assieme al CAI, da
rispettare.
Le potete trovare qua: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CAI
Personalmente mi sento di consigliarvi di fare un po' di esperienza e poi
di affrontare il discorso sentieri quando vi sentirete più a vostro agio.
:-)

D) dovendo mappare un nuovo edificio (centro polifunzionale di Fierozzo)
> che su openstreet non appare ancora, come possiamo fare?
>
Qua bisogna snocciolare meglio la questione perché "polifunzionale" può
voler dire un sacco di cose...
Nello specifico cosa viene fatto dentro questo edificio? Sport? Servizi?
Si potrebbe disegnare l'edificio trovando un valore adatto per la chiave
"building" e quindi inserire come singoli punti i vari
servizi/attività/entità che ci operano dentro.

Ciao!
Lorenzo
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Yves]

John, Kathleen, thank you for this perspective I did not have.
Yves 

Le 29 juillet 2019 19:25:34 GMT+02:00, john whelan  a 
écrit :
>I agree with Kathleen.  Given that smartphones are more common than
>internet connected computers and it is easier to add or change tags on
>a
>smartphone than add a long highway at least the locals stand more
>chance
>this way.
>
>Cheerio John
>
>On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 1:00 PM Kathleen Lu via talk,
>
>wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, if the map of your area is completely blank, it
>looks
>> very daunting to a new mapper, who may be discouraged and abandon OSM
>> (either as too difficult to improve and as too poor quality to use).
>> The map is constantly changing because roads and other things on the
>map
>> are changing in the real world. A city might close off a road and
>then it
>> will become a "bad" street. It's easier to delete a bad street than
>to add
>> a bunch of streets, especially when you are surveying on foot and
>don't
>> have a mouse.
>> I personally would much rather have a 101% map than a 1% map.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:21 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
>> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Re: "OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than having
>101%
>>> of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of extras, because
>>> fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by hand"
>>>
>>> I'm not certain this is true. It might be very difficult to find the
>>> 1% of incorrectly mapped roads; you don't know where to look, and
>you
>>> must survey on the ground with GPS, and check each road segment to
>>> find the 1% that actually are blocked by a fence or gate or don't
>>> really go through that clump of trees.
>>>
>>> In contrast, when 99% are missing it's very obvious when looking at
>>> the map data. You still have to survey and add the streets, but it
>may
>>> actually be faster to get to a complete map of your home
>neighborhood,
>>> than trying to find 10 bad streets out of 1000 segments in your
>>> neighborhood.
>>>
>>> Finally, when you look at the map and it looks 100% complete, you
>>> won't see the need to start mapping and become a totally addicted
>>> OSMer like you will if your village is only 1% mapped, so we may not
>>> get the new contributors that we need to actual maintain the data
>that
>>> our robot mappers have added.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Yves]

No need to argue that much about it:
I think everyone will agree that we should not, at any case, add a track in OSM 
that doesn't exist.
It can be dangerous in any emergency situation anywhere in the world.
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[Talk-es] semanarioOSM Nº 470 2019-07-16-2019-07-22

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 470, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12261/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-cu] semanarioOSM Nº 470 2019-07-16-2019-07-22

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 470, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12261/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[OSM-co] semanarioOSM Nº 470 2019-07-16-2019-07-22

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 470, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12261/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-latam] semanarioOSM Nº 470 2019-07-16-2019-07-22

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 470, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/12261/

¡Disfruta!

¿Sabías que también puedes enviar mensajes para la nota semanal sin ser 
miembro? Simplemente ingresa a https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login con tu 
cuenta de OSM. Lee más sobre cómo escribir una publicación aquí: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Mark Wagner]

On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 10:53:07 -0400
Yuri Astrakhan  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 6:19 AM Martin Koppenhoefer
>  wrote:
> 
> > speaking about risks, having an incomplete network of verified,
> > correct roads is probably more useful and less troublesome than an
> > "overcomplete" one which also contains non-existent roads (e.g.
> > waterways interpreted as roads) or shows connections that aren't
> > there in reality. 
> 
> I think this position should be a bit more nuanced.  Taken to
> absurdity, OSM map with a one percent of roads is far worse than
> having 101% of the roads mapped with the help of AI with 1% of
> extras, because fixing that 1% is far less work than adding 99% by
> hand.  I'm sure we can find a good balance between both positions.

Having hiked in areas with 1% maps, and having hiked in areas with 101%
maps, I have to say that I prefer the 1% map.  With the 1% map, there's
at least no question that you're off the map and on your own for
route-finding.  With the 101% map, it's very easy to get in trouble
because the connecting trail you were counting on doesn't exist.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Solar panels quarterly project progress

[Gregory Williams]

Last night I updated my solar mapping comparison tool to include coverage of 
Scotland. Unfortunately it had only covered England and Wales up until now 
because my comparison with the FiT register data was performed at the LSOA 
level. For Scotland, the comparison is being performed just at the local 
authority level. The tool is here:

http://osm.gregorywilliams.me.uk/solar/index.html
Some other recent additions that I've made to the tool are:

  *
A "Last updated" column -- showing the date of the last addition / change to a 
solar panel object here;
  *
A "FiT" layer, showing the relative number of PV installations that the FiT 
register has for this area, regardless of whether we've mapped them yet in OSM. 
I.e. a way to seek out where installations are situated, such that a survey can 
be planned;
  *
An "OSM objects" layer, that shows the location of each OSM-mapped PV 
installation, to help keep track of progress in systematically surveying for PV 
installations.

I'm hoping to find time to add further functionality over the coming weeks.

Gregory

Sent from 
Mailspring,
 the best free email app for work
On Jul 30 2019, at 9:05 pm, Dan S  wrote:
Hi all,

The current quarterly project is: solar panels. The good news: we've hit 25,000!
(From a baseline of fewer than 5,000 at the start of the year.)
https://twitter.com/mclduk/status/1156274870625472513

Great work folks. It'd be great to find a way to get other people to
help spot solar panels in their own neck of the woods. But we're on
our way!

Dan

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Re: [Talk-it] [OT] DAE - defibrillatori

[Andreas Lattmann]

>In realtà a me al corso di BLS-D hanno insegnato:
>
>  * che si fa il massaggio cardiaco+eventualmente la respirazione (che
>non è indispensabile nei primi minuti, a meno che l'arresto non sia
>dovuto a soffocamento, mentre è indispensabile far girare il
>sangue). Questo permette di recuperare tempo prezioso
>* che intanto si manda qualcuno a prendere un DAE per riattivare il
>cuore
>

Giusto, la procedura è questa, l'importante è che ci sia qualcuno che 
interviene e pratichi subito il BLS mentre qualcuno, anche con l'aiuto di OSM, 
trovi nelle vicinanze un DAE. 

>altrimenti si continua a massaggiare/ventilare finché si può, in attesa
>
>di soccorsi più esperti.

Anche i soccorsi più esperti miracoli non ne fanno se nessuno interviene prima.
Hanno il vantaggio di maggiore esperienza ed attrezzature (cannula oro-faringea 
[se non c'è dottore], il paziente può essere intubato, ossigenato con le 
bombole di ossigeno ed il dottore gli può fare delle punture di adrenalina 
direttamente nel cuore).  Rispondendo a Martin, è per questo che cominciano ad 
esserci i DAE nei luoghi pubblici, per cercare di aumentare il numero di 
persone che si salvano. 

>In generale il problema non è tanto avere il DAE vicino, ma che solo
>una 
>piccola parte di chi ha un attacco cardiaco ha accanto qualcuno che 
>interviene, mentre spesso ha accanto qualcuno che non fa nulla.

Purtroppo è vero anche questo...

Sarebbe bello avere i dati aperti sul posizionamento dei DAE, almeno per poter 
fare un sopralluogo ed inserirli in OSM nella posizione corretta. 

Andreas

--
樂

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