Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 10:08, John Henderson wrote: > barrier=cattle_grid > cattle_grid=cavaletti What about: barrier=horse_grid They aren't cattle grids, and they aren't proper cavalettis either from what I've seen, cavalettis seem to be horse jumps these barriers aren't meant to be jumped, in fact they make them large enough to dissuade a horse from crossing at all without a little extra encouragement. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another graphic use of OSM
On 9 June 2010 15:22, Steve Bennett wrote: > At a guess, he has downloaded thousands of flickr images geotagged in > that area, and has access to the registered location of the The reason it made OSM news was because he used, and correctly attributed, the base layer as being OSM data... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another graphic use of OSM
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 2:40 PM, John Smith wrote: > This was posted to blogs last week... There is an image of Merlbourne > in the collection too I believe... http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4671519459/ At a guess, he has downloaded thousands of flickr images geotagged in that area, and has access to the registered location of the photographer. Thus a "tourist" tagged photo is one whose photographer doesn't live in the area. And the "could be either" presumably don't have those stats. Not sure the red/blue distinction is all that enlightening (tourists visit the city centre and St Kilda, whodathunkit...) Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
>> 1. It's too hard to get Nearmap users to go through the signup process for >> OSM > For a given value of "hard" :) Yes, right now we think it's too > complex and there's also no easy way for us to tell if they're already > signed up/logged into OSM. Yep. I guess it would involve asking them to sign up twice. > Interesting point... is a given Nearmap user any less trustworthy than > a given OSM user? :) > Or are you thinking that this would be a result of us making it easier > to make changes? A fair question. I'm working under the assumption that a nearmap user is most likely unfamilar with OSM or how to edit ways and POIs according to the agreed standards; otherwise you wouldn't be trying to make it easier for your users to edit OSM data :) > That's a good idea, but it doesn't help us address one key > requirement, which is that we want to allow users to make corrections > on the map and see the results of those changes in very short order > (preferably immediately). The OSM data structure is not well suited > to us storing edits locally and using them to correct the data used > for rendering, so our preference if to resubmit the edits back to OSM > as soon as possible so that we can regenerate the maps from the OSM > updates. I guess a compromise would be to display another layer that contains all the suggested changes that have been made by all the different nearmap users. People would be able to see "oh someone's already flagged that for an edit", and see what the status of all the suggestions are (Accepted, Reviewed, In progress, Fixed, Won't Fix etc). Sort of like a GIS Bugzilla. -- Voon-Li Chung chun...@gmail.com.au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 14:14, David Murn wrote: > One thing Id like to see tagged in some way, is railway ends. These are > tagged as railway=buffer_stop, but dont have any indication on the > rendered map. This makes it difficult sometimes to know if a track ends > at the node, or if it simply hasnt been mapped any further. All it > would need is a single black dot, or an X or something at the end of the > line. I'd suggest asking for it to render identically to barrier=bollard or you could point to a SVG image, not sure if the JOSM image is SVG or not. > How do we go about getting these ideas added to the map? Interestingly, You go to http://trac.openstreetmap.org and click the 'login' link, then you search (top right) for similar terms to make sure there isn't another bug already, otherwise click on 'New Ticket', change the type from defect to enhancement, then change the 'Component' from 'admin' to 'mapnik' then you just need to type in a short description such as 'It'd be nice to render railway=buffer_stop' and then a slightly longer description below it on how you think it could be rendered etc. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 12:47, John Smith wrote: > Most aussie maps show dirt roads as a dashed line, but this might > upset/confuse the Europeans... Is there no tag for "paved with gold"? b -- Ben Last Development Manager (HyperWeb) NearMap Pty Ltd ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 11:24, Steve Bennett wrote: > I'd also like some basic surface information to be rendered. Dividing I previously filed a bug for surface=sand to render the same as natural=beach for exactly this reason: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2873 > the surface universe into "paved/untagged" vs "everything else" would > be a good start. Most aussie maps show dirt roads as a dashed line, but this might upset/confuse the Europeans... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another graphic use of OSM
On 9 June 2010 13:08, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Jim Croft wrote: >> @sebchan: Absolutely amazing analysis of geotagged photos - Locals vs >> Tourists #12 (GTWA #27): Sydney on Flickr - http://bit.ly/cMYTQO >> Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/sebchan/status/15692611438 > > Um, a little bit of context would help. Whose photos? What does GTWA > stand for? What are we looking at here? This was posted to blogs last week... There is an image of Merlbourne in the collection too I believe... http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Opengeodata/~3/0Y66_R06btU/map-art-both Geotagger's World Atlas I thought there was another blog post it before the one above but I can't seem to locate it... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another graphic use of OSM
I don't really know... I was just looking at the mashup involving OSM data and thought it was pretty cool that a community effort gets used in ways we might not expect... jim On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Jim Croft wrote: >> @sebchan: Absolutely amazing analysis of geotagged photos - Locals vs >> Tourists #12 (GTWA #27): Sydney on Flickr - http://bit.ly/cMYTQO >> Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/sebchan/status/15692611438 > > Um, a little bit of context would help. Whose photos? What does GTWA > stand for? What are we looking at here? > > Steve > -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 36, Issue 9
On 9 June 2010 11:14, Voon-Li Chung wrote: > I have a idea - it's not that different in concept to my "Survey > Helper" system that I emailed out about a few months ago. But the way > I see it, the issues are: > 1. It's too hard to get Nearmap users to go through the signup process for OSM For a given value of "hard" :) Yes, right now we think it's too complex and there's also no easy way for us to tell if they're already signed up/logged into OSM. > 2. OSM shouldn't necessarily trust the information coming back from > Nearmap users, and would ideally like to vet the information coming > back Interesting point... is a given Nearmap user any less trustworthy than a given OSM user? :) Or are you thinking that this would be a result of us making it easier to make changes? > 3. It would be good there was some way to combine the enthusiasm of > the Nearmap users with the skills of long-term OSM editors > So how about creating an independent database that allows OSM editors > to view what is effectively a "suggestion box database", which can > then be used / accessed by registered OSM users to influence their map > editing? That way, Nearmap users are still making contributions, and > they can be vetted / influenced by a more experienced OSM editor. That's a good idea, but it doesn't help us address one key requirement, which is that we want to allow users to make corrections on the map and see the results of those changes in very short order (preferably immediately). The OSM data structure is not well suited to us storing edits locally and using them to correct the data used for rendering, so our preference if to resubmit the edits back to OSM as soon as possible so that we can regenerate the maps from the OSM updates. > That way, one of the activities OSM editors can do, in addition to > tracing streets, is also check "the Nearmap change suggestions > database" to see what good stuff the Nearmap user community has > provided. We are planning to tag all changes (and changed entities) from our edits appropriately, so that changes made via NearMap are easy to find. Cheers b -- Ben Last Development Manager (HyperWeb) NearMap Pty Ltd ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 11:22, Ben Last wrote: > Yep; getting numbers for corners of blocks is a pretty effective way to > boost geocoding accuracy with minimal data. Though it works better in a > US-style block system than in, say, rural areas of the UK :) Are you aware of the current AU/NZ numbering standard for rural areas? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Rural_Road_Numbering As long as you know the start point and end point you can number up to 100km of road at a time. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 11:28, Steve Bennett wrote: > Some parts of the US are pretty crazy too. My favourite though is a > scheme I saw in Dallas (and I'm sure exists elsewhere) where the > numbers are independent of the street, and uniquely identify a house > within some region. So a tiny cul-de-sac can have street numbers in > the thousands, and an address can effectively be "41029 Dallas". I thought that was pretty common for most/all of the US? They have an occasional thing on TV here where someone gets the fine for someone else because of similar names and street name/numbers, although if they couldn't make that mistake I'm sure others would be made :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 11:28, Steve Bennett wrote: > Oops, could have been clearer. By "integration", I meant asking the > OSM developers to make some changes to make it easier, too. But yeah, > if not possible, not possible. I have and didn't get much of a useful reply... It would be so much easier for an API to allow people to sign up, and I fully sympathise with Ben's position. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
One thing Id like to see tagged in some way, is railway ends. These are tagged as railway=buffer_stop, but dont have any indication on the rendered map. This makes it difficult sometimes to know if a track ends at the node, or if it simply hasnt been mapped any further. All it would need is a single black dot, or an X or something at the end of the line. How do we go about getting these ideas added to the map? Interestingly, my example of railway=buffer_stop isnt mentioned on the railway= page, but it is listed on the map features page. There are almost 1400 occurances according to osmdoc. David On Wed, 2010-06-09 at 06:58 +1000, John Smith wrote: > Mapping a few things locally and noticed some things don't render, so > I filed bugs about them: > > Rendering waterway=drain areas, these are now very mappable anywhere > Nearmap has made imagery available, but only ways currently render: > http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3041 > > Rendering operator=* tags if name=* is missing, currently nothing is > rendered but operator shows up in JOSM > http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3042 > > Generic shop icons, I think it's important that something renders on > the map, even if it's just the name and a generic icon for points of > interest like shops, currently on a select subset of shops are > rendering > http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3043 > > Does anyone else have any thoughts on what else should be rendered? > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The nearmap effect
Err, and just now I notice that when you press "b" in Potlatch, instead of creating "source=nearmap", it creates a tag like " http://www.nearmap.com/kh/zxy=!,!,!";. Wonder when this change happened, and is that a bug? It sure looks like it... Stve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 36, Issue 9
>> There's no convenient way. ?We could bounce a user off to the OSM site to >> register, but this is complex because they then need to confirm an email, >> and after the signup there (appears to be) no convenient way to bring them >> back to our site. We'd then have to ask them to enter their OSM username and >> password since we can't easily tell whether they are registered/logged in >> with OSM (the OSM login cookies are for the openstreetmap.org domain). ?In >> short, the OSM site doesn't appear to have been designed with the intention >> of supporting login integration with external services. >> There are ways around many of the issues, but we'd end up doing a fair >> amount of work to integrate closely with an external site that may then >> change the way it works, breaking the flow for our users. Hi all, I have a idea - it's not that different in concept to my "Survey Helper" system that I emailed out about a few months ago. But the way I see it, the issues are: 1. It's too hard to get Nearmap users to go through the signup process for OSM 2. OSM shouldn't necessarily trust the information coming back from Nearmap users, and would ideally like to vet the information coming back 3. It would be good there was some way to combine the enthusiasm of the Nearmap users with the skills of long-term OSM editors So how about creating an independent database that allows OSM editors to view what is effectively a "suggestion box database", which can then be used / accessed by registered OSM users to influence their map editing? That way, Nearmap users are still making contributions, and they can be vetted / influenced by a more experienced OSM editor. That way, one of the activities OSM editors can do, in addition to tracing streets, is also check "the Nearmap change suggestions database" to see what good stuff the Nearmap user community has provided. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Another graphic use of OSM
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Jim Croft wrote: > @sebchan: Absolutely amazing analysis of geotagged photos - Locals vs > Tourists #12 (GTWA #27): Sydney on Flickr - http://bit.ly/cMYTQO > Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/sebchan/status/15692611438 Um, a little bit of context would help. Whose photos? What does GTWA stand for? What are we looking at here? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 12:26 PM, John Henderson wrote: > Not too good at bunny-hopping? Seriously, it's easy to carry a bike > across, even with a load. I don't know about "easy". Possible, certainly. The spacing and the knee-height bars are pretty awkward - can't walk on the logs, can't conveniently walk between them. But I'm not actually complaining. Second the notion that they're completely different to cattle grids. They're more like a "barrier=cycle_barrier", perhaps "barrier=horse_barrier"? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unusual edits.
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 11:34:16 +1000 Steve Bennett wrote: > On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Ross Scanlon wrote: > > It's just that some of the edits are suspiciously like Brendan_Cherry's > > For those of us not familiar with Brendan_Cherry... what's unusual > about their edits? > > Steve Brendan_Cherry was the username that vandalised the Perth - Kalgoorlie - Busselton area in April, with things like The Charlie Sheen Highway etc. If you compare the two edits from these users the style of comments on the changesets (among other things) are very similar. Especially when you start looking at the edits closer, small apparently insignicant changes on one way of a changeset but large numbers of items in the changeset. For example adding a name to oneside of a dualcarriageway road and not the other but deleting the source=nearmap tag from both at the same time, with 100+ ways in total in the changeset but this is the only change. This is just one example I found I'm sure if I go through the rest of the changesets then there will be others. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 09:22, Ben Last wrote: > On 9 June 2010 09:13, Steve Bennett wrote: >> >> I suspect this approach will prove controversial. Is there really no >> way you can integrate user registrations? > > There's no convenient way. We could bounce a user off to the OSM site to > register, but this is complex because they then need to confirm an email, > and after the signup there (appears to be) no convenient way to bring them > back to our site. We'd then have to ask them to enter their OSM username and > password since we can't easily tell whether they are registered/logged in > with OSM (the OSM login cookies are for the openstreetmap.org domain). In > short, the OSM site doesn't appear to have been designed with the intention > of supporting login integration with external services. > There are ways around many of the issues, but we'd end up doing a fair > amount of work to integrate closely with an external site that may then > change the way it works, breaking the flow for our users. OSM does support OAuth: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OAuth which helps with bringing people back to the site and doesn't require you to know their username and password. It is a standard, although doesn't help with the initial registration. James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 09/06/10 11:20, Steve Bennett wrote: > Oh, is *that* what they're for. I have seen one or two of those > around, like on a bridleway near Rowville, Vic: > > http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.958364,145.26343&z=22&t=h&nmd=20100416 I found an ACT government pdf which also stresses their usefulness for keeping motor vehicles out. That makes a cavaletti quite different from a cattle_grid. In fact, it implies a no-access restriction for the likes of cars and motor bikes. But access=yes for ridden horses (not pulling a cart) and for pedestrians and bicycles. > They're pretty good at stopping mountain bikers too. :) Not too good at bunny-hopping? Seriously, it's easy to carry a bike across, even with a load. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Unusual edits.
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Ross Scanlon wrote: > It's just that some of the edits are suspiciously like Brendan_Cherry's For those of us not familiar with Brendan_Cherry... what's unusual about their edits? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The nearmap effect
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Neil Penman wrote: > Only the vast majority of these were not sourced from Nearmap (except in > some of the country areas not previously covered by Yahoo). They may have > been updated by somebody using nearmap imagery, mostly trivial changes, but > they would have been originally created via survey or from Yahoo. Certainly > names would not have been sourced from nearmap. Wouldn't it would make more > sense if the source tag was only applied to changesets? Even that is not > ideal as in one changeset multiple sources could be used, ie survey for > names, nearmap for layout. > Hmm, a source tag applied to changesets sort of makes sense, except that I find changesets very nebulous and awkward objects to work with (in Potlatch, anyway). I personally have been doing a fair bit of what you describe, in Melbourne. Mostly fixing stuff that was traced from MMBW - quite a lot of minor road realignments, new dead-ends, roundabouts etc etc. I eventually settled on changing the "source=MMBW" to "source:name=MMBW" and adding "source=nearmap". Sometimes if I'm only changing a couple of points, I'll tag those nodes individually. Still, I add a lot of new stuff too: tracing landuse=retail, adding highway=cycleway, quite a few laneways, and there are still a surprisingly large number of streets missing in Melbourne. Oh, and a few major duplicated roads (eg, Nepean Highway, South Road) need a lot of work: missing service roads, missing cut-throughs, missing junctions, junctions that don't exist... Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Ben Last wrote: > There's no convenient way. We could bounce a user off to the OSM site to > register, but this is complex because they then need to confirm an email, > and after the signup there (appears to be) no convenient way to bring them > back to our site. We'd then have to ask them to enter their OSM username and > password since we can't easily tell whether they are registered/logged in > with OSM (the OSM login cookies are for the openstreetmap.org domain). In > short, the OSM site doesn't appear to have been designed with the intention > of supporting login integration with external services. > There are ways around many of the issues, but we'd end up doing a fair > amount of work to integrate closely with an external site that may then > change the way it works, breaking the flow for our users. Oops, could have been clearer. By "integration", I meant asking the OSM developers to make some changes to make it easier, too. But yeah, if not possible, not possible. > Yep; getting numbers for corners of blocks is a pretty effective way to > boost geocoding accuracy with minimal data. Though it works better in a > US-style block system than in, say, rural areas of the UK :) Some parts of the US are pretty crazy too. My favourite though is a scheme I saw in Dallas (and I'm sure exists elsewhere) where the numbers are independent of the street, and uniquely identify a house within some region. So a tiny cul-de-sac can have street numbers in the thousands, and an address can effectively be "41029 Dallas". > Splitting streets may fall into the area where the edit gets more complex > than we want to support (at least for the first release). But yes, there is > an issue there, depending on how farsighted the person was who originally > traced the street :) Speaking as a tracer, it's very hard to guess where to break a street. You don't want to break them too short either, because then people down the track are more likely to only label half the street... Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 6:58 AM, John Smith wrote: > Mapping a few things locally and noticed some things don't render, so > I filed bugs about them: I'd really like golf course features to be rendered. I find it a bit ironic that Best of OpenStreetMap includes a golf course with bunkers mapped as beaches: http://bestofosm.org/?type=tilesathome&lon=77.02036&lat=10.91120&zoom=17 I'd also like some basic surface information to be rendered. Dividing the surface universe into "paved/untagged" vs "everything else" would be a good start. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 09:13, Steve Bennett wrote: > I suspect this approach will prove controversial. Is there really no > way you can integrate user registrations? > There's no convenient way. We could bounce a user off to the OSM site to register, but this is complex because they then need to confirm an email, and after the signup there (appears to be) no convenient way to bring them back to our site. We'd then have to ask them to enter their OSM username and password since we can't easily tell whether they are registered/logged in with OSM (the OSM login cookies are for the openstreetmap.org domain). In short, the OSM site doesn't appear to have been designed with the intention of supporting login integration with external services. There are ways around many of the issues, but we'd end up doing a fair amount of work to integrate closely with an external site that may then change the way it works, breaking the flow for our users. I do like the idea of tagging addresses though. In particular, it > would be great if your system made it easy to tag corner addresses, > and interpolate between them (using the current interpolation scheme - > which I'm not very familiar with). > Yep; getting numbers for corners of blocks is a pretty effective way to boost geocoding accuracy with minimal data. Though it works better in a US-style block system than in, say, rural areas of the UK :) > One issue that occurs with allowing street name changes is that you > may need to allow users to split streets. Also, you may want to point > out to them that one (previously unnamed) street/way runs into another > unnamed street/way. Splitting streets may fall into the area where the edit gets more complex than we want to support (at least for the first release). But yes, there is an issue there, depending on how farsighted the person was who originally traced the street :) Cheers b -- Ben Last Development Manager (HyperWeb) NearMap Pty Ltd ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 7:14 AM, John Henderson wrote: > On trails which horses use, there's often a type of above-ground "cattle > grid" called a "cavaletti". Typically, it would consist of about 4 > widely-spaced logs across the track at a height of about a half a metre. > The idea is that a riderless horse will not cross this (and perhaps > escape on to a road). Oh, is *that* what they're for. I have seen one or two of those around, like on a bridleway near Rowville, Vic: http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.958364,145.26343&z=22&t=h&nmd=20100416 They're pretty good at stopping mountain bikers too. :) Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Ben Last wrote: > the NearMap site). We do have our own registration system, and we're going > to require that a user be registered with us before we allow them to make > edits. > Because of the above, edits applied to the OSM data would be submitted by a > "nearmap" user. We're planning to tag edited OSM entities with information > sufficient to identify the NearMap user who made the edit. We'll also be > tracking the history of edits by users in our core database. I suspect this approach will prove controversial. Is there really no way you can integrate user registrations? I do like the idea of tagging addresses though. In particular, it would be great if your system made it easy to tag corner addresses, and interpolate between them (using the current interpolation scheme - which I'm not very familiar with). One issue that occurs with allowing street name changes is that you may need to allow users to split streets. Also, you may want to point out to them that one (previously unnamed) street/way runs into another unnamed street/way. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 06:27, Roy Wallace wrote: > In particular, how will you > ensure that contributors via Nearmap agree to the OSM/OSMF > contributing terms/license? > Good point. We'll need to include this in T&Cs that a user must accept before editing. Since we're going to keep the edits for reverting/tracking/whatever, I think John's suggestion of us passing the same rights to OSM works; we'd have to agree to do that anyway when we sign up the -- Ben Last Development Manager (HyperWeb) NearMap Pty Ltd ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 10:08, John Henderson wrote: > might be a little better. But I don't see the problem in applying the > correct technical term to it up front. It's hardly more obscure than some "correct" is pretty subjective when it comes to these things, since most answers will be biased by cultural, language etc... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 09/06/10 09:51, John Smith wrote: > Best descriptive term I can think of is: > > barrier=horse_jump > >> From the quick reading I did, and this picture: > > http://www.texashorsemansdirectory.com/cavalet.gif > > A "cavaletti" is only one type of horse jump, so: > > barrier=horse_jump > horse_jump=cavaletti > > Might be more useful. Except that these are not jumped. The horse walks it with human guidance and reassurance. barrier=cattle_grid cattle_grid=cavaletti might be a little better. But I don't see the problem in applying the correct technical term to it up front. It's hardly more obscure than some existing things like "barrier=kent_carriage_gap". John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 09/06/10 09:40, John Smith wrote: > The name might be correct, but I don't think it is a good choice for a > name since it doesn't appear even in wikipedia, then again I can't > seem to find anything better, nor any images of permanent > installations. Almost completely obscured by cyclists, but you get the idea: http://members.pcug.org.au/~rmeurone/mtb/bacon03/bacon03-Pages/Image1.html It runs parallel to the left-hand fence, where the continuation of that fence is a cavaletti with parallel log-fence sides. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
Best descriptive term I can think of is: barrier=horse_jump >From the quick reading I did, and this picture: http://www.texashorsemansdirectory.com/cavalet.gif A "cavaletti" is only one type of horse jump, so: barrier=horse_jump horse_jump=cavaletti Might be more useful. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 09:33, John Henderson wrote: > The name is correct. I've found several references to the need to cross a > cavaletti when walking or cycling a track. And I initially got the name > from workmen constructing a new one on the BNT. The name might be correct, but I don't think it is a good choice for a name since it doesn't appear even in wikipedia, then again I can't seem to find anything better, nor any images of permanent installations. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 09/06/10 09:22, John Smith wrote: > On 9 June 2010 09:07, John Henderson wrote: >> Do I put it on the main international wiki, or just the Australian one? > > Map features page, but first I'd come up with a better name, even > wikipedia couldn't find anything related to the 2 keywords you list > below > >> Just to make things more difficult, searching for a dictionary >> definition gives me alternative spellings: "cavaletti" and "cavalletti". >> I guess I should try to determine which is more widely used, although >> my spell-checkers don't like either. > > Dictionary.com had this: > > "A small, portable jump for schooling horses. Constructed of light > poles, 4 to 6 ft long, resting on a cross of timber at each end so > that the pole is 12 to 18 inches above the ground." > > Which doesn't seem like a permanent barrier type to me. The term gets used for both - the temporary "horse training" ones and the fixed barrier structures. The name is correct. I've found several references to the need to cross a cavaletti when walking or cycling a track. And I initially got the name from workmen constructing a new one on the BNT. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 09:04, Franc Carter wrote: > One of the things I most wished for from my pre gps days was for maps to > have turn restrictions marked. Is there a good way to do this without cluttering the map? These have real value and should be displayed prominently on a map used for driving navigation, maybe OSM needs to start rendering more specialist maps for specific purposes, but this is a debate for a different list. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 09:22, John Smith wrote: > Dictionary.com had this: > > "A small, portable jump for schooling horses. Constructed of light > poles, 4 to 6 ft long, resting on a cross of timber at each end so > that the pole is 12 to 18 inches above the ground." Sorry, wasn't dictionary.com was: Saunders Comprehensive Veterinary Dictionary 3rd Edition, by D.C. Blood, V.P. Studdert and C.C. Gay, Elsevier ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 09:07, John Henderson wrote: > Do I put it on the main international wiki, or just the Australian one? Map features page, but first I'd come up with a better name, even wikipedia couldn't find anything related to the 2 keywords you list below > Just to make things more difficult, searching for a dictionary > definition gives me alternative spellings: "cavaletti" and "cavalletti". > I guess I should try to determine which is more widely used, although > my spell-checkers don't like either. Dictionary.com had this: "A small, portable jump for schooling horses. Constructed of light poles, 4 to 6 ft long, resting on a cross of timber at each end so that the pole is 12 to 18 inches above the ground." Which doesn't seem like a permanent barrier type to me. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 09/06/10 07:59, Liz wrote: > I thought that they were aligned horizontally, so wouldn't be bollards > JH, you have to take a photo and put it on the wiki > preferably with a link to an independent definition to stop the bickering over > "what is it?" I'll get a photo. Do I put it on the main international wiki, or just the Australian one? Just to make things more difficult, searching for a dictionary definition gives me alternative spellings: "cavaletti" and "cavalletti". I guess I should try to determine which is more widely used, although my spell-checkers don't like either. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
One of the things I most wished for from my pre gps days was for maps to have turn restrictions marked. cheers On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 6:58 AM, John Smith wrote: > Mapping a few things locally and noticed some things don't render, so > I filed bugs about them: > > Rendering waterway=drain areas, these are now very mappable anywhere > Nearmap has made imagery available, but only ways currently render: > http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3041 > > Rendering operator=* tags if name=* is missing, currently nothing is > rendered but operator shows up in JOSM > http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3042 > > Generic shop icons, I think it's important that something renders on > the map, even if it's just the name and a generic icon for points of > interest like shops, currently on a select subset of shops are > rendering > http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3043 > > Does anyone else have any thoughts on what else should be rendered? > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 08:38, Roy Wallace wrote: > On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 8:35 AM, John Smith wrote: >> >> ... I've been in a similar situation about >> people not wanting to create an account to use a POI mapping app I >> created for mobile phones, in that case I didn't take the easy way out >> and have a single account for all edits, but it's very temping to do >> things that way. > > So what did you do? > They have to sign up for an account on OSM... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 8:35 AM, John Smith wrote: > > ... I've been in a similar situation about > people not wanting to create an account to use a POI mapping app I > created for mobile phones, in that case I didn't take the easy way out > and have a single account for all edits, but it's very temping to do > things that way. So what did you do? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 9 June 2010 08:27, Roy Wallace wrote: > Does OSMF have a policy regarding this? In particular, how will you > ensure that contributors via Nearmap agree to the OSM/OSMF > contributing terms/license? Strictly speaking the user could give Nearmap non-exclusive rights to their edits and in turn Nearmap gives the same rights to OSM when the data is uploaded. That said I've been in a similar situation about people not wanting to create an account to use a POI mapping app I created for mobile phones, in that case I didn't take the easy way out and have a single account for all edits, but it's very temping to do things that way. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Ben Last wrote: > > Our first release will support just those tasks mentioned above, using as > simple a UI as we can build; add or correct a street name, and add or correct > a house number (or a set of them). Sounds great! > We do have our own registration system, and we're going to require that a > user be registered with us before we allow them to make edits. Does OSMF have a policy regarding this? In particular, how will you ensure that contributors via Nearmap agree to the OSM/OSMF contributing terms/license? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, John Smith wrote: > On 9 June 2010 07:14, John Henderson wrote: > > On 09/06/10 06:58, John Smith wrote: > >> Does anyone else have any thoughts on what else should be rendered? > > > > I'm glad you asked, as I've been wondering what to do about a type of > > barrier which is missing from the wikis. > > > > On trails which horses use, there's often a type of above-ground "cattle > > grid" called a "cavaletti". Typically, it would consist of about 4 > > widely-spaced logs across the track at a height of about a half a metre. > > > > The idea is that a riderless horse will not cross this (and perhaps > > > > escape on to a road). > > > > The Bicentennial National Trail has many of these, and I've added a > > handful in the last week since I found the correct name. Eg: > > > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/444665099/history > > I'm guessing here but they sound like a stumpy barrier=bollard, so I'd > just use the height=* tag... > I thought that they were aligned horizontally, so wouldn't be bollards JH, you have to take a photo and put it on the wiki preferably with a link to an independent definition to stop the bickering over "what is it?" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 9 June 2010 07:14, John Henderson wrote: > On 09/06/10 06:58, John Smith wrote: > >> Does anyone else have any thoughts on what else should be rendered? > > I'm glad you asked, as I've been wondering what to do about a type of > barrier which is missing from the wikis. > > On trails which horses use, there's often a type of above-ground "cattle > grid" called a "cavaletti". Typically, it would consist of about 4 > widely-spaced logs across the track at a height of about a half a metre. > The idea is that a riderless horse will not cross this (and perhaps > escape on to a road). > > The Bicentennial National Trail has many of these, and I've added a > handful in the last week since I found the correct name. Eg: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/444665099/history I'm guessing here but they sound like a stumpy barrier=bollard, so I'd just use the height=* tag... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
On 09/06/10 06:58, John Smith wrote: > Does anyone else have any thoughts on what else should be rendered? I'm glad you asked, as I've been wondering what to do about a type of barrier which is missing from the wikis. On trails which horses use, there's often a type of above-ground "cattle grid" called a "cavaletti". Typically, it would consist of about 4 widely-spaced logs across the track at a height of about a half a metre. The idea is that a riderless horse will not cross this (and perhaps escape on to a road). The Bicentennial National Trail has many of these, and I've added a handful in the last week since I found the correct name. Eg: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/444665099/history John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Things that would be nice if they rendered...
Mapping a few things locally and noticed some things don't render, so I filed bugs about them: Rendering waterway=drain areas, these are now very mappable anywhere Nearmap has made imagery available, but only ways currently render: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3041 Rendering operator=* tags if name=* is missing, currently nothing is rendered but operator shows up in JOSM http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3042 Generic shop icons, I think it's important that something renders on the map, even if it's just the name and a generic icon for points of interest like shops, currently on a select subset of shops are rendering http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3043 Does anyone else have any thoughts on what else should be rendered? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
Sounds good. Clear simple support for adding addresses would be especially useful. This is probably the area that OSM is furthest behind other online maps and its not improving very quickly at the moment. --- On Tue, 8/6/10, Ross Scanlon wrote: From: Ross Scanlon Subject: Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Received: Tuesday, 8 June, 2010, 6:40 PM > we had a conversation on one of these lists about what would be wanted in a > bog_basic editor once > and i think it came down to name and classify a street and add a single point > to be a POI, name and classify it. Personally I would not like to see much more than this and I don't think being able to reclassify a street is suitable without strict guidelines and/or limits (eg an untagged way). For issues with these have a look around Fremantle at the moment and you'll see a number of oddly classified roads (secondary - trunk - secondary - trunk in the space of a few blocks). Anything more than this and it would lead to easy vandalism and I can see lots of nearmap staff time being occupied with reverts rather than other things (like imagery of North Qld ;)). The POI's should be select and choose, with the only text option being the name and addresses. All up though it would be great to have extra street names added and address as well. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Another graphic use of OSM
@sebchan: Absolutely amazing analysis of geotagged photos - Locals vs Tourists #12 (GTWA #27): Sydney on Flickr - http://bit.ly/cMYTQO Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/sebchan/status/15692611438 Sent via TweetDeck (www.tweetdeck.com) Sent from mobile device ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On 8 June 2010 16:40, Ross Scanlon wrote: > Personally I would not like to see much more than this and I don't think > being able to reclassify > a street is suitable without strict guidelines and/or limits (eg an untagged > way). For issues with > these have a look around Fremantle at the moment and you'll see a number of > oddly classified > roads (secondary - trunk - secondary - trunk in the space of a few blocks). This is also our thinking at the moment; as soon as you get away from a very small number of basic operations, you get immersed in the technicalities of what tags are appropriate (and those rules also change over time!). Thus we're very much intending to start small and only expand where there's value in doing so. David Murn wrote: > Sounds like the editing features in gosmore, add node/way, add name/type > to highway, and add one of a preset number of POIs (fuel is the only one > that comes to mind at the moment). This is probably the next step after the initial two tasks; allowing people to flag up local businesses and amenities (as points, rather than areas). -- Ben Last Development Manager (HyperWeb) NearMap Pty Ltd ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Unusual edits.
Anyone know this user: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Q4004 I've tried to contact them without any response. It's just that some of the edits are suspiciously like Brendan_Cherry's -- Ross Scanlon ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
> we had a conversation on one of these lists about what would be wanted in a > bog_basic editor once > and i think it came down to name and classify a street and add a single point > to be a POI, name and classify it. Personally I would not like to see much more than this and I don't think being able to reclassify a street is suitable without strict guidelines and/or limits (eg an untagged way). For issues with these have a look around Fremantle at the moment and you'll see a number of oddly classified roads (secondary - trunk - secondary - trunk in the space of a few blocks). Anything more than this and it would lead to easy vandalism and I can see lots of nearmap staff time being occupied with reverts rather than other things (like imagery of North Qld ;)). The POI's should be select and choose, with the only text option being the name and addresses. All up though it would be great to have extra street names added and address as well. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On Tue, 2010-06-08 at 17:13 +1000, Liz wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jun 2010, Ben Last wrote: > > Yes, we do, and whilst it's an interesting piece of work, it's still too > > complex for general users (in our humble opinion!)... > we had a conversation on one of these lists about what would be wanted in a > bog_basic editor once > and i think it came down to name and classify a street and add a single point > to be a POI, name and classify it. Sounds like the editing features in gosmore, add node/way, add name/type to highway, and add one of a preset number of POIs (fuel is the only one that comes to mind at the moment). David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap support for OSM editing
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010, Ben Last wrote: > On 8 June 2010 14:27, John Smith wrote: > > Do you know about the mapzen editor cloudmade produced? > > http://mapzen.cloudmade.com/ > > Yes, we do, and whilst it's an interesting piece of work, it's still too > complex for general users (in our humble opinion!). It would also require > users to register with CloudMade to use it, and we wouldn't get visibility > of their edits (until they came down the feed from OSM). > Cheers > Ben we had a conversation on one of these lists about what would be wanted in a bog_basic editor once and i think it came down to name and classify a street and add a single point to be a POI, name and classify it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
