Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
I guess I was talking about navigating there by aircraft. For passengers, sure you'd want a passenger terminal location, and an entrance to the same. Ultimately, regardless of what form of transport you use, you are going to be navigating to a point. The question is there an automated algorithm that can calculate a reasonable point, or does this need to be placed manually. It seems not for passengers. I'd argue there probably isn't in general. For Sydney Airport, they have just opened up all that land on the other side of the canal - and the runways themselves extend way into the bay. It's complicated to calculate a reasonable point. So, I do see it as roughly equivalent to the boundary/admin_centre. Where a basic centre of gravity algorithm works to convert a way to a node, then you probably don't need a node. Like a building. Where this type of algorithm doesn't produce a reasonable point, then I think we should at least have the possibility of placing a point manually. Ian. On 1 October 2015 at 16:06, Andrew Harvey wrote: > When travelling to an airport, you normally travel to a terminal which are > separately mapped, ideally with an entrance=main. Where would you put this > point at say Sydney where international and domestic are on opposite sides? > I think it's not the same as admin_center for admin boundaries. > On 01/10/2015 2:01 pm, "Ian Sergeant" wrote: > >> Certainly when navigating to an airport, you need a 'point' to navigate >> to. An calculation of a valid airport point from a airport boundary that >> may often include industrial parks, etc, is problematic - verging on >> intractable. Having this point 500m off significantly breaks stuff. >> >> It's a similar issue to admin boundaries, where this issue is addressed >> with a relation and an admin_centre tag. >> >> Ian. >> > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
When travelling to an airport, you normally travel to a terminal which are separately mapped, ideally with an entrance=main. Where would you put this point at say Sydney where international and domestic are on opposite sides? I think it's not the same as admin_center for admin boundaries. On 01/10/2015 2:01 pm, "Ian Sergeant" wrote: > Certainly when navigating to an airport, you need a 'point' to navigate > to. An calculation of a valid airport point from a airport boundary that > may often include industrial parks, etc, is problematic - verging on > intractable. Having this point 500m off significantly breaks stuff. > > It's a similar issue to admin boundaries, where this issue is addressed > with a relation and an admin_centre tag. > > Ian. > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
Certainly when navigating to an airport, you need a 'point' to navigate to. An calculation of a valid airport point from a airport boundary that may often include industrial parks, etc, is problematic - verging on intractable. Having this point 500m off significantly breaks stuff. It's a similar issue to admin boundaries, where this issue is addressed with a relation and an admin_centre tag. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
@John I sympathies with your concern, but we can't hold up progress in the OSM database for the sake of a particular GPS vendor or piece of software not supporting the OSM data model. Right now with a point and area data consumers would need to try to automatically remove points where they are the same as an area they fall in. We shouldn't need to do that process. If Garmin GPS's only support points, the conversion software should convert these areas to points. @Warin I support this, and would like to do this for the victorian airports too. On 1 October 2015 at 14:11, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > -1 > > Here am I taking nodes and making them areas - thus removing the node. > > I think mkgmap needs some improvement to get relevant areas into POI ... > if that is a problem. > > I'd put money on a mkgmap 'expert' tell us that it is not a mkgmap problem > as it can be done. > > > > > On 1/10/2015 12:04 PM, Alex Sims wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Another “me too” as I have almost exclusively used OSM mapping in my >> Garmin GPS for a few years now. It’s highlighted all sorts of things, >> missing turn restrictions, wrong speed limits (not visible but affects >> routing), street names etc. Even works overseas, although I’ve mainly used >> it as a pedestrian, rather than driving. >> >> I’ve added a lot of car parks at places I visit at well. I need to add a >> lot more addresses too. >> >> There are however some mkgmap peculiarities and the maps that most people >> package up tend not to have their mkgmap configuration published and this >> may produces strange results in an Australian context. Some recipes tend to >> make a point for each area on the Garmin, so you definitely don’t want a >> node and an area for a single POI as you can end up with three entries. The >> mapping from OSM to Garmin for POI category seems also a bit variable and >> often not what is expected. The other weirdness is due to OSM having >> unlimited precision and Garmin having a max resolution of a few metres, so >> I might have removed a few extraneous nodes here and there :), but I try >> real hard not to “map for the renderer” >> >> Alex >> >> >> On 1 Oct 2015, at 5:26 am, John Henderson wrote: >>> >>> On 30/09/15 19:31, Andrew Harvey wrote: >>> Currently Melbourne Airport appears in the database twice, once as a node once as a way. Is there any reason why I should not move the tags from the node to the way and delete the node? http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/235151361 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305804278 >>> Garmin GPS units have always been a favourite with OSM mappers, as well >>> as the general public who don't want to pay exorbitant prices for map >>> updates. >>> >>> I regularly update and use an OSM base map on my Garmin car GPS. It's >>> great for finding routing errors in the underlying OSM data. >>> >> ___ >> Talk-au mailing list >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >> > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
-1 Here am I taking nodes and making them areas - thus removing the node. I think mkgmap needs some improvement to get relevant areas into POI ... if that is a problem. I'd put money on a mkgmap 'expert' tell us that it is not a mkgmap problem as it can be done. On 1/10/2015 12:04 PM, Alex Sims wrote: Hi, Another “me too” as I have almost exclusively used OSM mapping in my Garmin GPS for a few years now. It’s highlighted all sorts of things, missing turn restrictions, wrong speed limits (not visible but affects routing), street names etc. Even works overseas, although I’ve mainly used it as a pedestrian, rather than driving. I’ve added a lot of car parks at places I visit at well. I need to add a lot more addresses too. There are however some mkgmap peculiarities and the maps that most people package up tend not to have their mkgmap configuration published and this may produces strange results in an Australian context. Some recipes tend to make a point for each area on the Garmin, so you definitely don’t want a node and an area for a single POI as you can end up with three entries. The mapping from OSM to Garmin for POI category seems also a bit variable and often not what is expected. The other weirdness is due to OSM having unlimited precision and Garmin having a max resolution of a few metres, so I might have removed a few extraneous nodes here and there :), but I try real hard not to “map for the renderer” Alex On 1 Oct 2015, at 5:26 am, John Henderson wrote: On 30/09/15 19:31, Andrew Harvey wrote: Currently Melbourne Airport appears in the database twice, once as a node once as a way. Is there any reason why I should not move the tags from the node to the way and delete the node? http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/235151361 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305804278 Garmin GPS units have always been a favourite with OSM mappers, as well as the general public who don't want to pay exorbitant prices for map updates. I regularly update and use an OSM base map on my Garmin car GPS. It's great for finding routing errors in the underlying OSM data. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
Hi, Another “me too” as I have almost exclusively used OSM mapping in my Garmin GPS for a few years now. It’s highlighted all sorts of things, missing turn restrictions, wrong speed limits (not visible but affects routing), street names etc. Even works overseas, although I’ve mainly used it as a pedestrian, rather than driving. I’ve added a lot of car parks at places I visit at well. I need to add a lot more addresses too. There are however some mkgmap peculiarities and the maps that most people package up tend not to have their mkgmap configuration published and this may produces strange results in an Australian context. Some recipes tend to make a point for each area on the Garmin, so you definitely don’t want a node and an area for a single POI as you can end up with three entries. The mapping from OSM to Garmin for POI category seems also a bit variable and often not what is expected. The other weirdness is due to OSM having unlimited precision and Garmin having a max resolution of a few metres, so I might have removed a few extraneous nodes here and there :), but I try real hard not to “map for the renderer” Alex > On 1 Oct 2015, at 5:26 am, John Henderson wrote: > > On 30/09/15 19:31, Andrew Harvey wrote: >> Currently Melbourne Airport appears in the database twice, once as a >> node once as a way. Is there any reason why I should not move the >> tags from the node to the way and delete the node? >> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/235151361 >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305804278 > > Garmin GPS units have always been a favourite with OSM mappers, as well > as the general public who don't want to pay exorbitant prices for map > updates. > > I regularly update and use an OSM base map on my Garmin car GPS. It's > great for finding routing errors in the underlying OSM data. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
On 30/09/15 19:31, Andrew Harvey wrote: Currently Melbourne Airport appears in the database twice, once as a node once as a way. Is there any reason why I should not move the tags from the node to the way and delete the node? http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/235151361 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305804278 Garmin GPS units have always been a favourite with OSM mappers, as well as the general public who don't want to pay exorbitant prices for map updates. I regularly update and use an OSM base map on my Garmin car GPS. It's great for finding routing errors in the underlying OSM data. When using a GPS unit, all manner of things come under the heading of points-of-interest (POI). As a consequence, there are those of us who rely on things like shops, schools, servos, toilets, etc being nodes rather than ways so that they're correctly listed in the various POI categories the GPS offers. I'm sure there are those who will argue that the mkgmap program should render appropriate ways as POIs when converting to Garmin maps. To the best of my knowledge, it still doesn't. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
When I added the area there weren't a lot of airports locally tagged as anything other than nodes. I was probably being a little cautious at the time, i'd think it would be safe to merge them now. On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote: > Currently Melbourne Airport appears in the database twice, once as a node > once as a way. Is there any reason why I should not move the tags from the > node to the way and delete the node? > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/235151361 > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305804278 > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Melbourne Airport (mapped as both node and way)
Currently Melbourne Airport appears in the database twice, once as a node once as a way. Is there any reason why I should not move the tags from the node to the way and delete the node? http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/235151361 http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/305804278 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
