Re: [talk-au] Funding for OpenStreetMap initiatives

[Edoardo Neerhut]

Hi all,

Thrilled at the enthusiastic response to this and the range of suggestions.
A bit of homework for us at the OSM Special Interest Group (OSM SIG) is to
get a proper application form together shaped by your suggestions.
I'll discuss this with OSGeo Oceania's SIG which all are welcome to join.
Andrew Harvey is currently co-chair, but we're looking for another co-chair
for him.

To address some of the points raised:

   - @Violaine  excellent idea. Definitely in scope.
   - @fors...@ozonline.com.au  I love the idea of
   the signs giving the story behind the tree planting more permanence. If
   Parks Vic approves, I would imagine the OSM SIG would approve such use of
   funds. Let us know if something concrete comes up around
   venue hire/internet. This is also within scope and we could discuss ASAP to
   get you what you need.
   - @Mateusz Good question and one we have not discussed in detail. My own
   opinion is that there should be some Oceania connection, as that is the
   mandate of our organisation. This could be a tool developed directly in
   Oceania that has global reach, or a tool developed globally that has clear
   benefit to end users in Oceania.
   - @brenbar...@gmail.com  every one of these is
   worthy. For many of these we need someone to volunteer to maintain the
   program. A camera grant program for Oceania would be wonderful, but we need
   some volunteers to help put it together. Here is an example from the UK
   . Warin raises a
   good point though. I actually ran a camera grant program for a day job
   (Mapillary) and the lesson learned over time is that to be successful the
   cameras really need to be a permanent grant rather than a loan. It becomes
   too expensive and time consuming to ship cameras across the world, or even
   Oceania. The dynamics could be different for a rental program, but then
   someone needs to be willing to manage it.
   - I like the UK's high-vis vests
    idea, but
   I don't think I'd wear one myself. The iD of some sort along with flyers is
   a good idea though. If OSGeo Oceania was willing to place an initial order
   of 50 or so, do you think you'd be able to help design them @graeme?

I'm very keen to see how many of these brilliant ideas can be turned into
concrete actions. To be perfectly honest, the main barrier here is having
someone willing to put in the time to drive each initiative. Money is less
of a concern and the whole point of OSGeo Oceania and our OSM group is to
support initiatives like this.

The OSM SIG will follow up with a concrete platform to submit ideas, but
feel free to keep them coming here in the meantime.

Happy mapping,

Ed




On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 at 21:08, Sam Wilson  wrote:

> I've also had conversations like that, and have rarely managed to convince
> people that I'm not peculiar. I remember one bloke found it more believable
> that I was collecting photos of power poles than that I was contributing to
> a map!
>
> OSM UK has high-viz surveyor vests
> , or
> rather instructions for how to get a work-wear company to make such a thing
> on order. I wonder if we could do something similar here?
>
> But yeah, I agree that a 'official' OSM Oceania leaflet or lanyard or
> something would be great. I mean, I realise I could just print such a
> thing, but there's something better about it having some sort of community
> standing.
>
> —Sam.
>
>
> On 13/7/21 11:33 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> Bit of an out-there idea that I've had a couple of times.
>
> Occasionally, when doing an on-street survey in populated areas, I've
> thought that the sight of some random stranger walking the street making
> notes about the buildings that he's passing & checking out must look a bit
> suspicious! :-)
>
> Once, when I was writing down shop names in a shopping centre, I've even
> been asked what I was doing, & explained that I was gathering details to
> improve local maps.
>
> It would be "nice" if we could walk around with a photo ID, emblazoned OSM
> Oceania (or maybe Australia / NZ / Fiji etc etc?) dangling around our
> necks, as it would look a lot more "professional" & "official".
>
> At the same time, also have some brochures produced explaining what OSM is
> about, what we do & how everybody can contribute, & pass them out to
> anybody interested.
>
> Worthwhile?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 13:03, Brendan Barnes  wrote:
>
>> Suggestions:
>>
>> Loanable equipment such as high-precision handheld GPS units for GPS
>> traces, and Waylens or 360 degree cameras for KartaView image sequences.
>> Similar to the equipment loan program in Europe
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Units_for_Loan
>>
>> Hardware for a loanable KartaView rig project, such as a "trekking-style"
>> backpack for OSM hikers, or a HD multi-camera, 

Re: [talk-au] Funding for OpenStreetMap initiatives

[Sam Wilson]

I've also had conversations like that, and have rarely managed to 
convince people that I'm not peculiar. I remember one bloke found it 
more believable that I was collecting photos of power poles than that I 
was contributing to a map!


OSM UK has high-viz surveyor vests 
, or 
rather instructions for how to get a work-wear company to make such a 
thing on order. I wonder if we could do something similar here?


But yeah, I agree that a 'official' OSM Oceania leaflet or lanyard or 
something would be great. I mean, I realise I could just print such a 
thing, but there's something better about it having some sort of 
community standing.


—Sam.


On 13/7/21 11:33 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

Bit of an out-there idea that I've had a couple of times.

Occasionally, when doing an on-street survey in populated areas, I've 
thought that the sight of some random stranger walking the street 
making notes about the buildings that he's passing & checking out must 
look a bit suspicious! :-)


Once, when I was writing down shop names in a shopping centre, I've 
even been asked what I was doing, & explained that I was gathering 
details to improve local maps.


It would be "nice" if we could walk around with a photo ID, emblazoned 
OSM Oceania (or maybe Australia / NZ / Fiji etc etc?) dangling around 
our necks, as it would look a lot more "professional" & "official".


At the same time, also have some brochures produced explaining what 
OSM is about, what we do & how everybody can contribute, & pass them 
out to anybody interested.


Worthwhile?

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 13:03, Brendan Barnes > wrote:


Suggestions:

Loanable equipment such as high-precision handheld GPS units for
GPS traces, and Waylens or 360 degree cameras for KartaView image
sequences. Similar to the equipment loan program in Europe
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Units_for_Loan


Hardware for a loanable KartaView rig project, such as a
"trekking-style" backpack for OSM hikers, or a HD multi-camera,
high-precision GPS car rig.

Funding to help secure more OSM hardware hosting sponsors in the
region. Currently we only have two Tile Servers, and they are both
located in Melbourne, Australia.

Drone mapping infrastructure, such as a community Open Drone Map
cloud server, to process orthorectified aerial imagery.


On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 at 17:32, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au
mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:


9 Jul 2021, 03:06 by eneer...@gmail.com
:

  * Funding for OSM related software development

What about projects that are not
targeting specifically Oceania needs but
as useful elsewhere?

Is it going to be lower priority, with
Oceania-focused project having a clear
preference?

Or is it not useful to even propose them?
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Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Hi Nemanja

Sorry, been busy packing to go away!

Thanks for asking for further feedback :-)

Yep, I'd go along with Michael - if it's named on the Govt data, then
highway=unclassified + access=public; if not named highway=unclassified +
access=private.

You'd probably also be able to add surface=unpaved to just about all of
them.

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:56, cleary  wrote:

> Hello again Nemanja
>
> I response to your question, based on my experience, I still have the view
> that unnamed roads in South Australia are not intended for public access.
> Therefore, if mapped, they should be tagged as access=private. I don't
> think there would be any exceptions but, if there are, individual mappers
> who survey such areas could later amend the access tags and/or add names as
> appropriate.
>
> If the roads actually exist then I have no problem with mapping them. My
> particular concern is that failing to tag them as private could endanger
> lives and livelihoods.
>
> Thanks for your diligence in following up this issue
>
> Michael Cleary
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021, at 11:07 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know it might be a vacation period for most people, but if you are
> > still online, we would like to know which method is more acceptable for
> > the whole community before we proceed.
> >
> > I really appreciate any help you can provide.
> > Nemanja
> >
> > *From:* Nemanja Bracko (E-Search)
> > *Sent:* Monday, July 5, 2021 8:59 AM
> > *To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick ; Ewen Hill
> > 
> > *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> > *Subject:* RE: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> > contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
> >
> > Thanks again for the constructive suggestions.
> >
> > My team will treat this very carefully and as a high priority.
> >
> > Two main questions are here:
> >  * Do you want us to correct the classification for every of these
> > ~2500 segments?
> >* If the answer is Yes, please tell us what to do with the access
> > tag. We will strictly follow your guideline. We would like to fix it in
> > one pass.
> >  * Do you want us to remove all these roads entirely from the map?
> >
> > Both options are completely fine with us since we have a list of these
> > segments already. In any of these two cases, we will process them one
> > by one. No bulk edits will be made.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Nemanja
> >
> > *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 4, 2021 2:26 AM
> > *To:* Ewen Hill 
> > *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> > *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> > contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 17:28, Ewen Hill  wrote:
> > >
> > > The examples below could cause significant resentment to OSM and I
> would suggest that all are private driveways that I can see. Perhaps we
> need to stop updating, reset and look at how to improve the existing edits.
> An initial suggestion could be to set all new roads to private, add a fixme
> and perhaps organise a map-roulette of these? Of the ten edits I sampled,
> all ten appeared to be private driveways on private property.
> > >
> > > I am sure a few of us would be happy to discuss some of these
> changesets with the MS team so we can both learn a little more and see how
> we can assist before large changesets.
> > >
> > >
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=955658598#map=16/-33.8579/137.7863
> <
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D955658598%23map%3D16%2F-33.8579%2F137.7863=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554073989630%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=%2B%2BQlVcXIJgEUgsOIRftp7n0MmS1vEI%2FDylKZsTC7tQw%3D=0
> >
> > >
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=956458626#map=17/-34.50327/138.97656
> <
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D956458626%23map%3D17%2F-34.50327%2F138.97656=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554073999629%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=7OmOT2bGJDvl0AkZpsRPTFpAjy8eg%2BeokGR%2Fw%2FaBhrc%3D=0
> >
> > >
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=956583567#map=16/-32.6304/138.1584
> <
> 

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[cleary]

Hello again Nemanja

I response to your question, based on my experience, I still have the view that 
unnamed roads in South Australia are not intended for public access. Therefore, 
if mapped, they should be tagged as access=private. I don't think there would 
be any exceptions but, if there are, individual mappers who survey such areas 
could later amend the access tags and/or add names as appropriate.  

If the roads actually exist then I have no problem with mapping them. My 
particular concern is that failing to tag them as private could endanger lives 
and livelihoods. 

Thanks for your diligence in following up this issue

Michael Cleary





On Mon, 12 Jul 2021, at 11:07 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I know it might be a vacation period for most people, but if you are 
> still online, we would like to know which method is more acceptable for 
> the whole community before we proceed.
>  
> I really appreciate any help you can provide.
> Nemanja
>  
> *From:* Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) 
> *Sent:* Monday, July 5, 2021 8:59 AM
> *To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick ; Ewen Hill 
> 
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> *Subject:* RE: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>  
> Thanks again for the constructive suggestions.
>  
> My team will treat this very carefully and as a high priority.
>  
> Two main questions are here:
>  * Do you want us to correct the classification for every of these 
> ~2500 segments?
>* If the answer is Yes, please tell us what to do with the access 
> tag. We will strictly follow your guideline. We would like to fix it in 
> one pass.
>  * Do you want us to remove all these roads entirely from the map?
>  
> Both options are completely fine with us since we have a list of these 
> segments already. In any of these two cases, we will process them one 
> by one. No bulk edits will be made.
>  
> Thanks,
> Nemanja
>  
> *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick  
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 4, 2021 2:26 AM
> *To:* Ewen Hill 
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 17:28, Ewen Hill  wrote:
> >  
> > The examples below could cause significant resentment to OSM and I would 
> > suggest that all are private driveways that I can see. Perhaps we need to 
> > stop updating, reset and look at how to improve the existing edits. An 
> > initial suggestion could be to set all new roads to private, add a fixme 
> > and perhaps organise a map-roulette of these? Of the ten edits I sampled, 
> > all ten appeared to be private driveways on private property. 
> >  
> > I am sure a few of us would be happy to discuss some of these changesets 
> > with the MS team so we can both learn a little more and see how we can 
> > assist before large changesets.
> >  
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=955658598#map=16/-33.8579/137.7863
> >  
> > 
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=956458626#map=17/-34.50327/138.97656
> >  
> > 
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=956583567#map=16/-32.6304/138.1584
> >  
> > 
>  
> Yes, I'd go along with Ewen here.
>  
> The first of these examples "could" be a through public road, the 
> second looks like two private driveways that join in the middle, & I'd 
> be amazed if the third isn't only a driveway.
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Graeme
>  
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