Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[Kim Oldfield via Talk-au]

Hi,

The markers were installed by the railway, and are maintained by the 
railway. They are pole numbers attached to each telegraph pole along the 
railway. To help emergency services locate points along the railway 
Puffing Billy provided their location to ESTA with the "PBM" prefix.


As the railway created and maintains them I assume they are allowed to 
give permission for others to use them.


Regards,
Kim

On 26/11/21 4:56 pm, Adam Horan wrote:
Are these emergency markers created and maintained by the Puffing 
Billy Railway?


If not they might be sharing a dataset with you that they don't have 
permission to share for this purpose?


Adam

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 16:24, > wrote:


Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you
intent to do along with a link to information about the received
permission? Just to make it easier to find in the future if there
are any concerns.

*From:*Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
*To:* Kim Oldfield mailto:o...@oldfield.wattle.id.au>>
*Cc:* OSM-Au mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>>
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community,
informing of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my
opinion.

I would ask if you could share more information about the
permission you obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to
submit the data under the OSM contributor terms.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au
mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:

Hi,

I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the
Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway
with
permission to include them in OSM.

I've been reading through
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import
 -
most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and
using
publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my
import is
not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to
import it
into OSM.

I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no
highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near
the list
of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the
nodes are
already mapped.

Based on the example file on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format
 I've
converted the
emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:




   
   

...

In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm
intending to
then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the
data was
provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include
it in OSM.

I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set
under my
existing OSM username.

Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything
else I
should do?

Regards,
Kim





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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[forster]

Phil

Good idea, totally off topic but, go to  
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-37.9088066=145.3647858=17=246259583949249=photo and press  
play


you get an animation of Puffing Billy crossing the historic trestle  
bridge at Selby. Sorry I didn't see any markers but someone with more  
download MB might.


Tony


Maybe a slow train ride will capture them on Mapillary?

https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/tastrax?lat=-37.93374758=145.43984216
=17=135923665213980=photo

-Original Message-
From: fors...@ozonline.com.au 
Sent: Friday, 26 November 2021 5:26 PM
To: Adam Horan 
Cc: OSM-Au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

Hi

This subject was discussed in October.
The dataset they are sharing is likely to be
https://data.gov.au/data/dataset/esta-emergency-markers/resource/44add10f-a4
78-4ab0-a6fa-227493663b28

and it was determined that we do not have the right licence to use this
data.

I say likely to be the same dataset, I am fairly sure but no guarantee.

Tony


Are these emergency markers created and maintained by the Puffing
Billy Railway?

If not they might be sharing a dataset with you that they don't have
permission to share for this purpose?

Adam

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 16:24,  wrote:


Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you
intent to do along with a link to information about the received
permission? Just to make it easier to find in the future if there are any

concerns.




*From:* Andrew Harvey 
*Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
*To:* Kim Oldfield 
*Cc:* OSM-Au 
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?



That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community,
informing of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my

opinion.




I would ask if you could share more information about the permission
you obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the
data under the OSM contributor terms.



On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

Hi,

I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the
Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with
permission to include them in OSM.

I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import
- most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using
publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import
is not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to
import it into OSM.

I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no
highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the
list of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes
are already mapped.

Based on the example file on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted
the emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:

  
   
 ...

In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to
then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was
provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.

I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my
existing OSM username.

Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I
should do?

Regards,
Kim





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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[Phil Wyatt]

Maybe a slow train ride will capture them on Mapillary?

https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/tastrax?lat=-37.93374758=145.43984216
=17=135923665213980=photo

-Original Message-
From: fors...@ozonline.com.au  
Sent: Friday, 26 November 2021 5:26 PM
To: Adam Horan 
Cc: OSM-Au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

Hi

This subject was discussed in October.
The dataset they are sharing is likely to be
https://data.gov.au/data/dataset/esta-emergency-markers/resource/44add10f-a4
78-4ab0-a6fa-227493663b28

and it was determined that we do not have the right licence to use this
data.

I say likely to be the same dataset, I am fairly sure but no guarantee.

Tony

> Are these emergency markers created and maintained by the Puffing 
> Billy Railway?
>
> If not they might be sharing a dataset with you that they don't have 
> permission to share for this purpose?
>
> Adam
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 16:24,  wrote:
>
>> Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you 
>> intent to do along with a link to information about the received 
>> permission? Just to make it easier to find in the future if there are any
concerns.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
>> *Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
>> *To:* Kim Oldfield 
>> *Cc:* OSM-Au 
>> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?
>>
>>
>>
>> That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community, 
>> informing of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my
opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would ask if you could share more information about the permission 
>> you obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the 
>> data under the OSM contributor terms.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au < 
>> talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the 
>> Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with 
>> permission to include them in OSM.
>>
>> I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import 
>> - most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using 
>> publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import 
>> is not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to 
>> import it into OSM.
>>
>> I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no 
>> highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the 
>> list of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes 
>> are already mapped.
>>
>> Based on the example file on
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted 
>> the emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:
>>
>>   > id="-3" lat="-37.907468" lon="145.36039">
>>
>>  ...
>>
>> In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to 
>> then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was 
>> provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.
>>
>> I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my 
>> existing OSM username.
>>
>> Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I 
>> should do?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>





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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[forster]

Further
If the marker looks the same as the bottom photo of  
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Demergency_access_point
then the dataset is  
https://data.gov.au/data/dataset/esta-emergency-markers/resource/44add10f-a478-4ab0-a6fa-227493663b28

Tony


Hi

This subject was discussed in October.
The dataset they are sharing is likely to be
https://data.gov.au/data/dataset/esta-emergency-markers/resource/44add10f-a478-4ab0-a6fa-227493663b28

and it was determined that we do not have the right licence to use this data.

I say likely to be the same dataset, I am fairly sure but no guarantee.

Tony


Are these emergency markers created and maintained by the Puffing Billy
Railway?

If not they might be sharing a dataset with you that they don't have
permission to share for this purpose?

Adam

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 16:24,  wrote:


Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you intent to
do along with a link to information about the received permission? Just to
make it easier to find in the future if there are any concerns.



*From:* Andrew Harvey 
*Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
*To:* Kim Oldfield 
*Cc:* OSM-Au 
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?



That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community,
informing of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my opinion.



I would ask if you could share more information about the permission you
obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the data under
the OSM contributor terms.



On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

Hi,

I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the
Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with
permission to include them in OSM.

I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import -
most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using
publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import is
not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to import it
into OSM.

I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no
highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the list
of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes are
already mapped.

Based on the example file on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted the
emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:




  
  

...

In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to
then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was
provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.

I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my
existing OSM username.

Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I
should do?

Regards,
Kim





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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[forster]

Hi

This subject was discussed in October.
The dataset they are sharing is likely to be
https://data.gov.au/data/dataset/esta-emergency-markers/resource/44add10f-a478-4ab0-a6fa-227493663b28

and it was determined that we do not have the right licence to use this data.

I say likely to be the same dataset, I am fairly sure but no guarantee.

Tony


Are these emergency markers created and maintained by the Puffing Billy
Railway?

If not they might be sharing a dataset with you that they don't have
permission to share for this purpose?

Adam

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 16:24,  wrote:


Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you intent to
do along with a link to information about the received permission? Just to
make it easier to find in the future if there are any concerns.



*From:* Andrew Harvey 
*Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
*To:* Kim Oldfield 
*Cc:* OSM-Au 
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?



That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community,
informing of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my opinion.



I would ask if you could share more information about the permission you
obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the data under
the OSM contributor terms.



On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

Hi,

I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the
Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with
permission to include them in OSM.

I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import -
most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using
publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import is
not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to import it
into OSM.

I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no
highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the list
of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes are
already mapped.

Based on the example file on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted the
emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:




   
   

...

In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to
then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was
provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.

I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my
existing OSM username.

Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I
should do?

Regards,
Kim





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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[Adam Horan]

Are these emergency markers created and maintained by the Puffing Billy
Railway?

If not they might be sharing a dataset with you that they don't have
permission to share for this purpose?

Adam

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 16:24,  wrote:

> Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you intent to
> do along with a link to information about the received permission? Just to
> make it easier to find in the future if there are any concerns.
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
> *Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
> *To:* Kim Oldfield 
> *Cc:* OSM-Au 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?
>
>
>
> That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community,
> informing of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my opinion.
>
>
>
> I would ask if you could share more information about the permission you
> obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the data under
> the OSM contributor terms.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au <
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the
> Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with
> permission to include them in OSM.
>
> I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import -
> most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using
> publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import is
> not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to import it
> into OSM.
>
> I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no
> highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the list
> of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes are
> already mapped.
>
> Based on the example file on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted the
> emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:
>
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> 
> ...
>
> In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to
> then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was
> provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.
>
> I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my
> existing OSM username.
>
> Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I
> should do?
>
> Regards,
> Kim
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] M11 naming

[Adam Horan]

@Dian where were the roadsigns that you saw? Maybe someone can get out and
take some pictures.

>From VicNames it seems that south of Springvale Road it's called Mornington
Peninsula Freeway, but north of Springvale it's Mordialloc Freeway.
Continue further south and it's Peninsula Link, and then further it's back
to Mornington Peninsula Freeway.

I'm sure the signs on Peninsula Link still say that, but I have seen
newer/adjusted signs in this northern area which refer to MPF.
Unfortunately I can't remember exactly where I saw them...

The only consistent thing is the M11 numbering :)


On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 15:56, Brendan Barnes  wrote:

> Unfortunately the Major Road Projects Victoria website is not compatible
> with the ODbL, as "no part may be reproduced or used for any commercial
> purposes whatsoever". The press release on their site has no other
> licencing information, so we should treat it as copyright and not use it as
> a source for OSM data.
>
> The Engage Victoria website is CC BY 4.0 (State of Victoria (Department of
> Premier and Cabinet)), but unfortunately we don't have a waiver for.
>
> To ensure data in our database is sourced correctly, we need to collect
> street naming from on-the-ground surveys, compatible imagery providers, and
> any other compatible licence sources.
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 00:07, Adam Horan  wrote:
>
>> The existing southern end of this road which was known through
>> construction as 'Peninsula Link', and is mapped as such now, should
>> probably also be called 'Mornington Peninsula Freeway.'
>> See relation
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12622680#map=12/-38.1791/145.1193
>> and ways within.
>> Here is a VicRoads doc referring to upgrades on the southern part, and
>> calling it Mornington Peninsula Freeway https://engage.vic.gov.au/mpfu
>> However roadsigns along the road seem to call it Peninsula Link still.
>>
>> re the Mordialloc end - the project page is clear that *"The 9km long
>> Mordialloc Freeway connects the Mornington Peninsula Freeway in Aspendale
>> Gardens to the Dingley Bypass in Dingley Village..."*
>> https://roadprojects.vic.gov.au/projects/mordialloc-freeway
>> The press release for opening it calls it Mordialloc Freeway
>> https://roadprojects.vic.gov.au/news/mordialloc-freeway-open
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 22:51, Brendan Barnes 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nice work from the community surveying and mapping so quickly since
>>> early opening.
>>>
>>> There's no KartaView imagery of the extension, and Mapillary isn't
>>> loading for me right now, so it's hard to weigh-in as an armchair mapper.
>>>
>>> On sampling some of the ways (example
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/913115111), both name=* and
>>> official_name=* appear to be sourced correctly and follow the "map what's
>>> on the ground" good practice.
>>>
>>> My only suggestion would be alt_name=* being the same as official_name=*
>>> is probably redundant.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 21:11, Dian Ågesson  wrote:
>>>
 Hello,

 There has been a flurry of activity in South-East Melbourne surrounding
 the opening of the brand new M11 extension. Unfortunately, it seems as
 though sources vary on the name of this new section of road.

 The construction has been heavily advertised and promoted as the
 'Mordialloc Freeway'. That is the name of the road on Vicnames as well.

 Every roadsign I've seen in the area though uses 'Mornington Peninsula
 Freeway'. Wikipedia (currently) uses that name as well, but the editors
 there seem unsure what to call it as well.

 Thoughts?

 Dian
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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[osm.talk-au]

Maybe just create a simple page on the wiki describing what you intent to do 
along with a link to information about the received permission? Just to make it 
easier to find in the future if there are any concerns.

 

From: Andrew Harvey  
Sent: Friday, 26 November 2021 13:46
To: Kim Oldfield 
Cc: OSM-Au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

 

That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community, informing of 
your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my opinion.

 

I would ask if you could share more information about the permission you 
obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the data under the 
OSM contributor terms.

 

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au 
mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:

Hi,

I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the 
Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with 
permission to include them in OSM.

I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import - 
most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using 
publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import is 
not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to import it 
into OSM.

I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no 
highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the list 
of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes are 
already mapped.

Based on the example file on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted the 
emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:




   
   

...

In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to 
then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was 
provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.

I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my 
existing OSM username.

Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I 
should do?

Regards,
Kim





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Re: [talk-au] M11 naming

[Brendan Barnes]

Unfortunately the Major Road Projects Victoria website is not compatible
with the ODbL, as "no part may be reproduced or used for any commercial
purposes whatsoever". The press release on their site has no other
licencing information, so we should treat it as copyright and not use it as
a source for OSM data.

The Engage Victoria website is CC BY 4.0 (State of Victoria (Department of
Premier and Cabinet)), but unfortunately we don't have a waiver for.

To ensure data in our database is sourced correctly, we need to collect
street naming from on-the-ground surveys, compatible imagery providers, and
any other compatible licence sources.


On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 00:07, Adam Horan  wrote:

> The existing southern end of this road which was known through
> construction as 'Peninsula Link', and is mapped as such now, should
> probably also be called 'Mornington Peninsula Freeway.'
> See relation
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12622680#map=12/-38.1791/145.1193
> and ways within.
> Here is a VicRoads doc referring to upgrades on the southern part, and
> calling it Mornington Peninsula Freeway https://engage.vic.gov.au/mpfu
> However roadsigns along the road seem to call it Peninsula Link still.
>
> re the Mordialloc end - the project page is clear that *"The 9km long
> Mordialloc Freeway connects the Mornington Peninsula Freeway in Aspendale
> Gardens to the Dingley Bypass in Dingley Village..."*
> https://roadprojects.vic.gov.au/projects/mordialloc-freeway
> The press release for opening it calls it Mordialloc Freeway
> https://roadprojects.vic.gov.au/news/mordialloc-freeway-open
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 22:51, Brendan Barnes  wrote:
>
>> Nice work from the community surveying and mapping so quickly since early
>> opening.
>>
>> There's no KartaView imagery of the extension, and Mapillary isn't
>> loading for me right now, so it's hard to weigh-in as an armchair mapper.
>>
>> On sampling some of the ways (example
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/913115111), both name=* and
>> official_name=* appear to be sourced correctly and follow the "map what's
>> on the ground" good practice.
>>
>> My only suggestion would be alt_name=* being the same as official_name=*
>> is probably redundant.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 at 21:11, Dian Ågesson  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> There has been a flurry of activity in South-East Melbourne surrounding
>>> the opening of the brand new M11 extension. Unfortunately, it seems as
>>> though sources vary on the name of this new section of road.
>>>
>>> The construction has been heavily advertised and promoted as the
>>> 'Mordialloc Freeway'. That is the name of the road on Vicnames as well.
>>>
>>> Every roadsign I've seen in the area though uses 'Mornington Peninsula
>>> Freeway'. Wikipedia (currently) uses that name as well, but the editors
>>> there seem unsure what to call it as well.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Dian
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Re: [talk-au] Enriching OpenStreetMap with open data

[John Luan]

Hi Andrew,

Yes, I will fellow the guideline to prepare this bulk import, and I will
get peer reviewef in this group before we sumbit the changes.

Cheers,
John

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021, 3:42 pm Andrew Harvey, 
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 15:27, John Luan  wrote:
>
>> And we will have another follow up session after we finish the bulk
>> import, and we will talk about our bulk import experience.
>>
>
> I wasn't able to join the whole talk, but if you're planning on doing a
> bulk import then please make sure you check out OSM's import guidelines at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines. Could you share
> more details here about what you're proposing?
>
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Re: [talk-au] Enriching OpenStreetMap with open data

[Andrew Harvey]

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 15:27, John Luan  wrote:

> And we will have another follow up session after we finish the bulk
> import, and we will talk about our bulk import experience.
>

I wasn't able to join the whole talk, but if you're planning on doing a
bulk import then please make sure you check out OSM's import guidelines at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines. Could you share more
details here about what you're proposing?
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Re: [talk-au] Enriching OpenStreetMap with open data

[John Luan]

Thank you Brendan, unfortunately I forgot to record this session. And we
will have another follow up session after we finish the bulk import, and we
will talk about our bulk import experience.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 15:17, Brendan Barnes  wrote:

> That was an informative session. John, thanks for presenting!
>
> If anyone has other OSM-based presentations, feel free to let the list
> know. Cheers.
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 at 16:41, John Luan  wrote:
>
>> Hi Map Fans,
>>
>> Just a reminder, tonight at 7pm Melbourne time. A meetup for how to
>> enrich osm with open data.
>>
>>
>> https://www.intelematics.com/events/enriching-openstreetmap-with-open-data/
>>
>> Regards,
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 at 10:15, John Luan  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> There is a virtual meetup session for openstreetmap data contribution.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.intelematics.com/events/enriching-openstreetmap-with-open-data/
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> John
>>>
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>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Enriching OpenStreetMap with open data

[Brendan Barnes]

That was an informative session. John, thanks for presenting!

If anyone has other OSM-based presentations, feel free to let the list
know. Cheers.


On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 at 16:41, John Luan  wrote:

> Hi Map Fans,
>
> Just a reminder, tonight at 7pm Melbourne time. A meetup for how to enrich
> osm with open data.
>
> https://www.intelematics.com/events/enriching-openstreetmap-with-open-data/
>
> Regards,
> John
>
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 at 10:15, John Luan  wrote:
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> There is a virtual meetup session for openstreetmap data contribution.
>>
>>
>> https://www.intelematics.com/events/enriching-openstreetmap-with-open-data/
>>
>> Regards,
>> John
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

[Brendan Barnes]

We've previously used proposed tag fuzzy=[metres] for other "non track"
routes, which may be of assistance.


On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 14:36, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> More inclined to use description=invisible route on beach sand.
> On 26/11/21 2:12 pm, osm.talk...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote:
>
> Possibly path=link?
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
> 
> *Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 12:34
> *To:* Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> <61sundow...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways
>
>
>
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 11:54, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Same problem where a bushwalking route uses a beach. I was told IIRC it
> is ok to use highway=path with trail_visibility=no.
>
>
>
> Agreed, and while I still don't think it's perfect, it's probably the best
> compromise at the moment.
>
>
>
> You could also add informal=yes
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal
>
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Re: [talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[Andrew Harvey]

That sounds fine to me, this email consulting with the community, informing
of your plan and what steps you've taken is enough in my opinion.

I would ask if you could share more information about the permission you
obtained? So long as you have sufficient rights to submit the data under
the OSM contributor terms.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 04:56, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the
> Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with
> permission to include them in OSM.
>
> I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import -
> most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using
> publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import is
> not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to import it
> into OSM.
>
> I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no
> highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the list
> of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes are
> already mapped.
>
> Based on the example file on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted the
> emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:
>
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> 
> ...
>
> In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to
> then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was
> provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.
>
> I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my
> existing OSM username.
>
> Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I
> should do?
>
> Regards,
> Kim
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

[Warin]

More inclined to use description=invisible route on beach sand.

On 26/11/21 2:12 pm, osm.talk...@thorsten.engler.id.au wrote:


Possibly path=link?

*From:*Andrew Harvey 
*Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2021 12:34
*To:* Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
*Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 11:54, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


Same problem where a bushwalking route uses a beach. I was told
IIRC it
is ok to use highway=path with trail_visibility=no.

Agreed, and while I still don't think it's perfect, it's probably the 
best compromise at the moment.


You could also add informal=yes 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal 




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Re: [talk-au] Lots of identical changesets for toll roads (possibly incorrect).

[Warin]

On 26/11/21 11:36 am, Jake Coppinger wrote:

Hello,

I noticed I was getting bad OSM car directions which avoided General 
Holmes Dr (the east/west road under Sydney airport). I checked 
OverpassTurbo and it's been marked as a toll road 
(https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1ds0 ), 
which is incorrect as I drive there all the time - the toll road 
starts west of the Marsh st Intersection (to the left).


Looking into the history of the editor of the last changeset 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mayank_B/history#map=11/19.4601/-99.2140 
) 
I see about 100 edits all with the same changeset name: "Added a toll 
road". The majority are in Mexico, but many in Sydney, Melbourne & 
Brisbane.


I'm concerned lots of these may be incorrect edits, or (outdated) 
copyrighted data - considering the edits are across 3 countries in the 
span of 3 weeks in Aug/Sep.


Is someone able to revert 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/110105021#map=15/-33.9416/151.1734 
 
in particular, and look into whether more need to be reverted/fixed? 
I've left a comment, but this site suggests they are not an active 
mapper: https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Mayank_B 



I'm a long time lurker in this list, and only have experience with 
iD/OSMAnd. I hope this is the appropriate way to go about this, please 
let me know if not.




It is fine to ask questions this way.

Getting what data is left by Mayank_B is fairly easy in JOSM, using 
'download data' and the overpass API - the query is "user:Mayank_B" and 
thaqt will then get anything that is authored by him and not changed by 
anyone else.



Andrew Harvey post is noted.




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Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

[osm.talk-au]

Possibly path=link?

 

From: Andrew Harvey  
Sent: Friday, 26 November 2021 12:34
To: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

 

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 11:54, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
 > wrote:

Same problem where a bushwalking route uses a beach. I was told IIRC it 
is ok to use highway=path with trail_visibility=no.

 

Agreed, and while I still don't think it's perfect, it's probably the best 
compromise at the moment.

 

You could also add informal=yes 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal 

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Re: [talk-au] Lots of identical changesets for toll roads (possibly incorrect).

[Andrew Harvey]

I haven't looked at their other changesets, but I've reverted this one to
remove the toll=yes on the untolled section.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 11:40, Jake Coppinger  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I noticed I was getting bad OSM car directions which avoided General
> Holmes Dr (the east/west road under Sydney airport). I checked
> OverpassTurbo and it's been marked as a toll road (
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1ds0), which is incorrect as I drive there
> all the time - the toll road starts west of the Marsh st Intersection (to
> the left).
>
> Looking into the history of the editor of the last changeset (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mayank_B/history#map=11/19.4601/-99.2140)
> I see about 100 edits all with the same changeset name: "Added a toll
> road". The majority are in Mexico, but many in Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane.
>
> I'm concerned lots of these may be incorrect edits, or (outdated)
> copyrighted data - considering the edits are across 3 countries in the span
> of 3 weeks in Aug/Sep.
>
> Is someone able to revert
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/110105021#map=15/-33.9416/151.1734
> in particular, and look into whether more need to be reverted/fixed? I've
> left a comment, but this site suggests they are not an active mapper:
> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Mayank_B
>
> I'm a long time lurker in this list, and only have experience with
> iD/OSMAnd. I hope this is the appropriate way to go about this, please let
> me know if not.
>
> Cheers!
> Jake
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jakecopp)
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Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

[Andrew Harvey]

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 11:54, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Same problem where a bushwalking route uses a beach. I was told IIRC it
> is ok to use highway=path with trail_visibility=no.
>

Agreed, and while I still don't think it's perfect, it's probably the best
compromise at the moment.

You could also add informal=yes
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal
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Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

[stevea]

I've seen the solution Warin notes here in USA, too.  "Walk along the beach" 
(somewhat lengthily) yet the tide removes all the sandy footprints of any 
implicit or explicit "trail."  It's a route, though one that is invisible upon 
the ground.  But not among people who say "yep, mate, I'm walking from here to 
there" (or there to here).  Because of that, it's a path, even though it can't 
be seen.

> Same problem where a bushwalking route uses a beach. I was told IIRC it is ok 
> to use highway=path with trail_visibility=no.

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Re: [talk-au] Unconnected ways

[Warin]

On 26/11/21 7:16 am, Tom Brennan wrote:

Quick question on unconnected ways.

I've just mapped one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1006252416
Probably best viewed in edit mode with an aerial photo underlay.

This way is a physical path between two open grassed areas that 
themselves have no discernible paths. So at this stage, all I have 
mapped is the path, and it connects to nothing.


Obviously it would be easy enough to connect up the two ends - one to 
Westminster Rd, and the other to the track near the Field of Mars 
Environmental Education Centre. This is the "natural" route, and 
certainly one that people walk. However, there's nothing on the ground 
to suggest that I should do that.


Thoughts welcome.




Same problem where a bushwalking route uses a beach. I was told IIRC it 
is ok to use highway=path with trail_visibility=no.



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Re: [talk-au] Lots of identical changesets for toll roads (possibly incorrect).

[stevea]

I'm mixed in this reply and not quite able to invest the time right now on the 
necessary research to revert.

On the one hand, the changeset is 3 months old and that's plenty of time for a 
snarl to result from revert, because of temporal drift.  On the other hand, the 
geographical area is pretty small and possible side effects are a "bite sized 
chew."  My mouth is full right now (literally and figuratively, it's 
Thanksgiving, a holiday of big meal eating here).  I have much on my plate, 
though I'm sure others can take a look and say "that's a right-sized problem 
I'd be happy to chew on."  And...swallow.  Yup, I went there.

Good on ya to pick up on this.
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[talk-au] Lots of identical changesets for toll roads (possibly incorrect).

[Jake Coppinger]

Hello,

I noticed I was getting bad OSM car directions which avoided General Holmes
Dr (the east/west road under Sydney airport). I checked OverpassTurbo and
it's been marked as a toll road (https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1ds0), which
is incorrect as I drive there all the time - the toll road starts west of
the Marsh st Intersection (to the left).

Looking into the history of the editor of the last changeset (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mayank_B/history#map=11/19.4601/-99.2140)
I see about 100 edits all with the same changeset name: "Added a toll
road". The majority are in Mexico, but many in Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane.

I'm concerned lots of these may be incorrect edits, or (outdated)
copyrighted data - considering the edits are across 3 countries in the span
of 3 weeks in Aug/Sep.

Is someone able to revert
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/110105021#map=15/-33.9416/151.1734
in particular, and look into whether more need to be reverted/fixed? I've
left a comment, but this site suggests they are not an active mapper:
https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Mayank_B

I'm a long time lurker in this list, and only have experience with
iD/OSMAnd. I hope this is the appropriate way to go about this, please let
me know if not.

Cheers!
Jake
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jakecopp)
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[talk-au] Unconnected ways

[Tom Brennan]

Quick question on unconnected ways.

I've just mapped one:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1006252416
Probably best viewed in edit mode with an aerial photo underlay.

This way is a physical path between two open grassed areas that 
themselves have no discernible paths. So at this stage, all I have 
mapped is the path, and it connects to nothing.


Obviously it would be easy enough to connect up the two ends - one to 
Westminster Rd, and the other to the track near the Field of Mars 
Environmental Education Centre. This is the "natural" route, and 
certainly one that people walk. However, there's nothing on the ground 
to suggest that I should do that.


Thoughts welcome.

cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

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[talk-au] Importing 200 emergency markers?

[Kim Oldfield via Talk-au]

Hi,

I have a list of 200 emergency marker locations along 22km of the 
Puffing Billy Railway which were provided to me by the railway with 
permission to include them in OSM.


I've been reading through https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import - 
most of which appears to be geared toward larger imports and using 
publicly available data with various licenses. The data for my import is 
not publicly available, and was provided to me when I asked to import it 
into OSM.


I've searched overpass-turbo and there are no 
highway=emergency_access_points, name~"PBM", or ref~"PBM" near the list 
of nodes I have to import. This indicates that none of the nodes are 
already mapped.


Based on the example file on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM_file_format I've converted the 
emergency marker list into xml, the start of which looks like:





  
  

...

In JOSM I can import this file and merge the layer. I'm intending to 
then upload this with appropriate an comment noting that the data was 
provided by Puffing Billy Railway with permission to include it in OSM.


I'm proposing to import this as a one off, single change set under my 
existing OSM username.


Is this a reasonable way to do this import? Is there anything else I 
should do?


Regards,
Kim





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Re: [talk-au] Use of macrons in name:en

[Luke Stewart]

Similar to the case with New Zealand, I would support the use of macrons if
they are either official or used on-the-ground in terms of signage etc.
Regardless, having a namespace tag for English and Pitjantjatjara is
definitely a good idea.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 at 04:32, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> There is a good discussion going on at talk-nz about use of macrons and
> names
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-nz/2021/thread.html#318
>
> There was talk about if macrons should appear in the English name
> (name:en), which got me checking Uluṟu and Kata Tjuṯa.
>
> So should that be tagged as
>
> name=Kata Tjuṯa
> name:en=Kata Tjuta
> name:pjt Kata Tjuṯa
>
> or
>
> name=Kata Tjuṯa
> name:en=Kata Tjuṯa
> name:pjt Kata Tjuṯa
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7474225
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