Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification

[Ewen Hill]

Hi Oisin,
  Thanks for your email. As per the listing as well as service and
residential roads, I have altered the vast majority to highway=service,
service=driveway, access=private. I have also altered another 200 or so
roads that had other issues. I am now noticing the surface being removed
off tracks in Victoria e.g. https://osmcha.org/changesets/65812923/

  What appears on the official government datasets may not be what is on
the ground so take your time and perhaps raise a comment or raise a
question in talk-au.

All the best

Ewen

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 21:53, Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) <
v-oi...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Thank you to Ewen for taking the time to review these ways and providing
> us with the excel sheet with all the relevant information to return to our
> edits and update them, and to Graeme and Michael for the insights and
> suggestions! We'll take the opportunity to update the team on the local
> characteristics that require a closer attention to detail and submit these
> individually rather than as a bulk upload. We're always looking to improve
> the quality of edits and the time people have taken to share their local
> knowledge and experience here is much appreciated.
>
> Thanks again,
> Oisin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc)
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 8:31 AM
> To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> Cc: Ewen Hill 
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
>
> Hi Ewen,
>
> Nemanja is out on holidays for a couple weeks, so I'll jump in here.
> Thanks for taking the time to go through all these issues. We are still
> very much ready to proceed with the communities' decision on updates to
> tagging accordingly. In that regard we're glad to take the list of changes
> you propose in the form of a spreadsheet, or if you choose to use
> mapnotes/fixme's we can process them quick enough to have them resolved
> quickly. Feel free to reach out to me directly and we can get the team to
> prioritize this work.
>
> In terms of how to improve the mapping, Graeme has summarized Michael's
> proposal below as follows - " if it's named on the Govt data, then
> highway=unclassified + access=public; if not named  highway=unclassified
> + access=private." Would this be the best approach going forward when SA
> has newly published Open datasets? Then local surveyors can adjust
> individual roads, as necessary.
>
> Thanks again,
> Oisin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org  >
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 6:48 AM
> To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Talk-au Digest, Vol 172, Issue 37
>
> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-au&data=04%7C01%7Cv-oiher%40microsoft.com%7C6aafb7e6bda04edb68eb08d991759bc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637700756595701348%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HCO%2FC9h7phH3473DnbMhrVptw1bZlKJQwPWn0mQ4QAI%3D&reserved=0
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
>   contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>       (Ewen Hill)
>
>
> ------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:46:17 +1100
> From: Ewen Hill 
> To: o...@97k.com
> Cc: "Nemanja Bracko (E-Search)" , Graeme
> Fitzpatrick ,  OpenStreetMap
> 
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
> Message-ID:
>  so8-hf_vq2lb3nxnyu9dwkxpie08a684fr7copcuda5k...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Nemanja,
>Thank you for improving the mapping of Australian roads and tracks. I
> have reviewed 1649 unclassified roads that have been added in South
> Australia and I believe over 1500 are private driveways, farm access or
> roads that have been decommissioned. I have significant concern that an
> active army b

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification

[Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) via Talk-au]

Hi all,

Thank you to Ewen for taking the time to review these ways and providing us 
with the excel sheet with all the relevant information to return to our edits 
and update them, and to Graeme and Michael for the insights and suggestions! 
We'll take the opportunity to update the team on the local characteristics that 
require a closer attention to detail and submit these individually rather than 
as a bulk upload. We're always looking to improve the quality of edits and the 
time people have taken to share their local knowledge and experience here is 
much appreciated.

Thanks again,
Oisin

-Original Message-
From: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) 
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 8:31 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Cc: Ewen Hill 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification

Hi Ewen,

Nemanja is out on holidays for a couple weeks, so I'll jump in here. Thanks for 
taking the time to go through all these issues. We are still very much ready to 
proceed with the communities' decision on updates to tagging accordingly. In 
that regard we're glad to take the list of changes you propose in the form of a 
spreadsheet, or if you choose to use mapnotes/fixme's we can process them quick 
enough to have them resolved quickly. Feel free to reach out to me directly and 
we can get the team to prioritize this work.

In terms of how to improve the mapping, Graeme has summarized Michael's 
proposal below as follows - " if it's named on the Govt data, then 
highway=unclassified + access=public; if not named  highway=unclassified
+ access=private." Would this be the best approach going forward when SA has 
newly published Open datasets? Then local surveyors can adjust individual 
roads, as necessary.

Thanks again,
Oisin

-Original Message-
From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org 
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 6:48 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Talk-au Digest, Vol 172, Issue 37

Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
talk-au@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-au&data=04%7C01%7Cv-oiher%40microsoft.com%7C6aafb7e6bda04edb68eb08d991759bc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637700756595701348%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HCO%2FC9h7phH3473DnbMhrVptw1bZlKJQwPWn0mQ4QAI%3D&reserved=0
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of Talk-au digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
  contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
  (Ewen Hill)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:46:17 +1100
From: Ewen Hill 
To: o...@97k.com
Cc: "Nemanja Bracko (E-Search)" , Graeme
    Fitzpatrick ,  OpenStreetMap

Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Nemanja,
   Thank you for improving the mapping of Australian roads and tracks. I have 
reviewed 1649 unclassified roads that have been added in South Australia and I 
believe over 1500 are private driveways, farm access or roads that have been 
decommissioned. I have significant concern that an active army barracks has had 
access=all created for all internal roads and there is the possibility of 
routing through the barracks. Similar to some biohazard facilities which are 
used for testing on crops. How would you like the list to be provided to you 
and how can we have these fixed urgently and finally how do we improve the 
mapping?

During the bushfire season, we do not want a family thinking that a 
driveway that goes nowhere is the correct path to take and it would be 
fantastic to have this resolved in the next month or so.

Ewen

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 22:48, cleary  wrote:

> Nemanja
>
> Logic suggests that a road that is intended for public use would have 
> access from another public road. Even if I, or someone else, were to 
> drive in that area in the future to re-survey, it is unlikely that the 
> road identified as "Loutts Road" could be accessed without trespassing 
> on private property, suggesting it cannot really be a public road.
>
> In more remote parts of Australia, there are fewer people than in past 
> years. Whole towns have disappeared and smaller farms 

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification

[Ewen Hill]

Hi Oisin,
  Thank you for your reply.
   This relates to 1609 unclassified roads out of the 2603 additions added
during this period  and I believe 1497 "roads" (status=200*) are in fact
farm tracks and driveways and are on the Government dataset as part of
emergency service mapping support rather than being a road and the best
approach is as follows. There are 39 entries (status=255*) that require
manual edits. I do not believe these are gazetted roads at all.

highway=service
service=driveway (A driveway is a service road leading to a residence,
property or place of business (Wiki))
access=private
Some examples are ...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/955298540
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/954868318
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/954877319
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/955216220

* From the table provided

There maybe some exclusions where there are Right of Ways (ROWS) or where
livestock are allowed to use the corridor. These will be infrequent and it
would be improbable that these could be identified remotely.

I suggest that rather than re-editing each entry, that the team perform a
bulk update of the 1497 roads and review the others manually. The additions
your team have performed do improve the map, we just need to finesse this
now. I will report back on the other roads created when time permits.


Regards

Ewen



>
>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification

[Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) via Talk-au]

Hi Ewen,

Nemanja is out on holidays for a couple weeks, so I'll jump in here. Thanks for 
taking the time to go through all these issues. We are still very much ready to 
proceed with the communities' decision on updates to tagging accordingly. In 
that regard we're glad to take the list of changes you propose in the form of a 
spreadsheet, or if you choose to use mapnotes/fixme's we can process them quick 
enough to have them resolved quickly. Feel free to reach out to me directly and 
we can get the team to prioritize this work.

In terms of how to improve the mapping, Graeme has summarized Michael's 
proposal below as follows -
" if it's named on the Govt data, then highway=unclassified + access=public; if 
not named  highway=unclassified
+ access=private." Would this be the best approach going forward when SA has 
newly published Open datasets? Then local surveyors can adjust individual 
roads, as necessary.

Thanks again,
Oisin

-Original Message-
From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org  
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 6:48 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Talk-au Digest, Vol 172, Issue 37

Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
talk-au@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-au&data=04%7C01%7Cv-oiher%40microsoft.com%7C6aafb7e6bda04edb68eb08d991759bc3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637700756595701348%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HCO%2FC9h7phH3473DnbMhrVptw1bZlKJQwPWn0mQ4QAI%3D&reserved=0
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of Talk-au digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
  contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
  (Ewen Hill)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:46:17 +1100
From: Ewen Hill 
To: o...@97k.com
Cc: "Nemanja Bracko (E-Search)" , Graeme
    Fitzpatrick ,  OpenStreetMap

Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Nemanja,
   Thank you for improving the mapping of Australian roads and tracks. I have 
reviewed 1649 unclassified roads that have been added in South Australia and I 
believe over 1500 are private driveways, farm access or roads that have been 
decommissioned. I have significant concern that an active army barracks has had 
access=all created for all internal roads and there is the possibility of 
routing through the barracks. Similar to some biohazard facilities which are 
used for testing on crops. How would you like the list to be provided to you 
and how can we have these fixed urgently and finally how do we improve the 
mapping?

During the bushfire season, we do not want a family thinking that a 
driveway that goes nowhere is the correct path to take and it would be 
fantastic to have this resolved in the next month or so.

Ewen

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 22:48, cleary  wrote:

> Nemanja
>
> Logic suggests that a road that is intended for public use would have 
> access from another public road. Even if I, or someone else, were to 
> drive in that area in the future to re-survey, it is unlikely that the 
> road identified as "Loutts Road" could be accessed without trespassing 
> on private property, suggesting it cannot really be a public road.
>
> In more remote parts of Australia, there are fewer people than in past 
> years. Whole towns have disappeared and smaller farms have been 
> consolidated into much larger ones, often operated by corporations. In 
> the process, roads that were once public have gradually been made 
> private and responsibility for maintenance falls to landholders rather 
> than government authorities. Quite a few roads that once were public 
> roads are now private.  I suspect that Loutts Road is in that 
> category.  One possibility is that only part of Loutts Road was 
> privatised  but the remaining section, although theoretically public, 
> is inaccessible. Another possibility is that, when it was made private, the 
> name was intended to be removed.
> Although removed in the database from the section which provides 
> access from Parnaroo Road, the name for the more distant section might 
> have been accidentally left in the datab

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Ewen Hill]

Nemanja,
   Thank you for improving the mapping of Australian roads and tracks. I
have reviewed 1649 unclassified roads that have been added in South
Australia and I believe over 1500 are private driveways, farm access or
roads that have been decommissioned. I have significant concern that an
active army barracks has had access=all created for all internal roads and
there is the possibility of routing through the barracks. Similar to some
biohazard facilities which are used for testing on crops. How would you
like the list to be provided to you and how can we have these fixed
urgently and finally how do we improve the mapping?

During the bushfire season, we do not want a family thinking that a
driveway that goes nowhere is the correct path to take and it would be
fantastic to have this resolved in the next month or so.

Ewen

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 22:48, cleary  wrote:

> Nemanja
>
> Logic suggests that a road that is intended for public use would have
> access from another public road. Even if I, or someone else, were to drive
> in that area in the future to re-survey, it is unlikely that the road
> identified as "Loutts Road" could be accessed without trespassing on
> private property, suggesting it cannot really be a public road.
>
> In more remote parts of Australia, there are fewer people than in past
> years. Whole towns have disappeared and smaller farms have been
> consolidated into much larger ones, often operated by corporations. In the
> process, roads that were once public have gradually been made private and
> responsibility for maintenance falls to landholders rather than government
> authorities. Quite a few roads that once were public roads are now
> private.  I suspect that Loutts Road is in that category.  One possibility
> is that only part of Loutts Road was privatised  but the remaining section,
> although theoretically public, is inaccessible. Another possibility is
> that, when it was made private, the name was intended to be removed.
> Although removed in the database from the section which provides access
> from Parnaroo Road, the name for the more distant section might have been
> accidentally left in the database.
>
> As it cannot be accessed, there is probably no harm in showing it as a
> public road. But, on balance, I think access=private is more prudent.
>
> Thanks again for your thorough consultation.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021, at 8:42 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Thanks for the replies!
> > Before we start, please confirm one last thing.
> > Since we were able to find many cases like this:
> > https://prntscr.com/1b1ktyz
> > what would you suggest to do in the shown example?
> >
> > Please note that it might be the case that we are unable to find any
> > gates or barriers on the aerial imagery.
> >
> > I suppose that *access=public* is here just to emphasize that road is
> > public, but it is an implicit tag.
> >
> > Thanks once again,
> > Nemanja
> >
> > *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 13, 2021 5:20 AM
> > *To:* o...@97k.com
> > *Cc:* OpenStreetMap 
> > *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> > contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
> >
> > Hi Nemanja
> >
> > Sorry, been busy packing to go away!
> >
> > Thanks for asking for further feedback :-)
> >
> > Yep, I'd go along with Michael - if it's named on the Govt data, then
> > highway=unclassified + access=public; if not named highway=unclassified
> > + access=private.
> >
> > You'd probably also be able to add surface=unpaved to just about all of
> them.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:56, cleary  wrote:
> > > Hello again Nemanja
> > >
> > > I response to your question, based on my experience, I still have the
> view that unnamed roads in South Australia are not intended for public
> access. Therefore, if mapped, they should be tagged as access=private. I
> don't think there would be any exceptions but, if there are, individual
> mappers who survey such areas could later amend the access tags and/or add
> names as appropriate.
> > >
> > > If the roads actually exist then I have no problem with mapping them.
> My particular concern is that failing to tag them as private could endanger
> lives and livelihoods.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your diligence in following up this issue
> > >
> > > Michael Cleary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> &g

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Ewen Hill]

Good evening all,
   I have spent a bit of time exploring the changesets in SA by the
MSOMT and reviewed all residential roads and 1/13th of service roads. There
were some significant wins with a lot of the edits that vastly improve SA
however there could be some improvements with

   1. Private driveways being marked as residential or service roads
   without access restrictions. A lot of these are on farms and around
   farmyards past gates.
   2. Residential roads that should have been reduced to an alley or lane
   3. Caravan parks with the parking aisles marked as residential


*Execution: *

   - I modified the overpass query to extract all new ways since June 9th.
   This is available at https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aU2 and produced 5513
   entries
   - Each way then had the latest changeset id and username identified.
   This may not be the original editor.
   - User profiles were then checked for being part of the MSOMT team of
   which 13 editors were located
   - .Of the 4081 MSOMT edited ways in 1704 changesets, the following
   highway types were created
   -
   highway count
   unclassified 1610
   service 1501
   residential 921
   track 27
   construction 18
   cycleway 2
   tertiary 1
   secondary 1
   - All 921 residential roads were reviewed and whilst there are a number
   of grey areas and user perception, the following breakdown was identified
   -
   highway status count
   residential OK 243
   residential Minor issues/ Caravan parks 45
   residential Residential road but could be lane/alley  143
   residential Assumed private property access 481
   residential Other issues 9
   - A selection of 143 service roads were also reviewed.
   -
   highway status cout
   service ok 49
   service Minor issues
   1
   service Assumed private property access
   92
   service Other issue 1
   - No other highway types were reviewed.


Due to the number of changesets (393 already identified) and the mix of
edit quality, I am not certain where we go from here?


Ewen


On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 at 17:27, Nemanja Bracko (Hi-Tech Talents LLC) via
Talk-au  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Thank you for reviving this topic again. I planned to do the same this
> week.
>
>
>
> I would like to make a clear note that this issue is still on the top of
> our list to get fixed. For this reason, I’m responsive to this thread, so
> editors don’t need to reply to each repetitive issue. I don’t think that I
> have missed any of the messages or left them unanswered.
>
>
>
> We are still on hold since the community is not united about the process
> of work.
>
> The way I see this is only to remove roads that we added entirely. I don’t
> think it would be beneficial for the map and the community, but if that
> bothers the community, we are willing to remove it if it is the only
> solution.
>
>
>
> Once the community has a consensus about the tags that we have to use, we
> can jump in, and I will personally make sure that everything is processed
> entirely in accordance with your guideline.
>
>
>
> I really appreciate any help you can provide.
>
> Nemanja
>
>
>
> *From:* Andy Townsend 
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 29, 2021 5:37 PM
> *To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>
>
>
> At the risk of repeating what might have been said earlier, I'd suggest
> commenting on one or more of the problem changesets, explaining why
> "residential" (or whatever) isn't a good fit.
>
> If the users concerned don't reply then we (the DWG) can try and draw
> their attention to the comments before they make future changes.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> (from the DWG)
>
> On 8/29/21 2:15 PM, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
>
> Through overpass, plus random sampling as I'm editing; I'm still seeing a
> substantial amount of misclassifications.
>
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIk
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverpass-turbo.eu%2Fs%2F1aIk&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C9178a128b6d84cc0f48a08d96b036217%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637658484587213968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8%2BSqro4iEXrB6CGdsI2DlNqTVBxkvMi%2FWGFUqz4ePJo%3D&reserved=0>
>
> ~2400 ways.
>
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIl
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverpass-turbo.eu%2Fs%2F1aIl&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C9178a128b6d84cc0f48a08d96b036217%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637658484587223961%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Nemanja Bracko (Hi-Tech Talents LLC) via Talk-au]

Hi all,

Thank you for reviving this topic again. I planned to do the same this week.

I would like to make a clear note that this issue is still on the top of our 
list to get fixed. For this reason, I'm responsive to this thread, so editors 
don't need to reply to each repetitive issue. I don't think that I have missed 
any of the messages or left them unanswered.

We are still on hold since the community is not united about the process of 
work.
The way I see this is only to remove roads that we added entirely. I don't 
think it would be beneficial for the map and the community, but if that bothers 
the community, we are willing to remove it if it is the only solution.

Once the community has a consensus about the tags that we have to use, we can 
jump in, and I will personally make sure that everything is processed entirely 
in accordance with your guideline.

I really appreciate any help you can provide.
Nemanja

From: Andy Townsend 
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 5:37 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?


At the risk of repeating what might have been said earlier, I'd suggest 
commenting on one or more of the problem changesets, explaining why 
"residential" (or whatever) isn't a good fit.

If the users concerned don't reply then we (the DWG) can try and draw their 
attention to the comments before they make future changes.

Best Regards,

Andy

(from the DWG)
On 8/29/21 2:15 PM, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
Through overpass, plus random sampling as I'm editing; I'm still seeing a 
substantial amount of misclassifications.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIk<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverpass-turbo.eu%2Fs%2F1aIk&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C9178a128b6d84cc0f48a08d96b036217%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637658484587213968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=8%2BSqro4iEXrB6CGdsI2DlNqTVBxkvMi%2FWGFUqz4ePJo%3D&reserved=0>

~2400 ways.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIl<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foverpass-turbo.eu%2Fs%2F1aIl&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C9178a128b6d84cc0f48a08d96b036217%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637658484587223961%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=hQ3CLTYLu7Pgol0lRK3aszi9%2BqRH9x0HorBL%2FW1h%2FEc%3D&reserved=0>

Most of these outside of townships appear to be still very poorly classified, 
and last edited 2 months ago.

Has any correction been done whatsoever?

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 3:39 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks everybody for your comments.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 16:23, cleary mailto:o...@97k.com>> wrote:

I am insanely jealous that you can go driving in the countryside.

Sorry to make you feel bad! :-(

 Thanks

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Andy Townsend]

At the risk of repeating what might have been said earlier, I'd suggest 
commenting on one or more of the problem changesets, explaining why 
"residential" (or whatever) isn't a good fit.


If the users concerned don't reply then we (the DWG) can try and draw 
their attention to the comments before they make future changes.


Best Regards,

Andy

(from the DWG)

On 8/29/21 2:15 PM, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
Through overpass, plus random sampling as I'm editing; I'm still 
seeing a substantial amount of misclassifications.


https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIk 

~2400 ways.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIl 

Most of these outside of townships appear to be still very poorly 
classified, and last edited 2 months ago.


Has any correction been done whatsoever?

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 3:39 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:



Thanks everybody for your comments.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 16:23, cleary mailto:o...@97k.com>> wrote:


I am insanely jealous that you can go driving in the countryside.


Sorry to make you feel bad! :-(

 Thanks

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Daniel O'Connor]

Through overpass, plus random sampling as I'm editing; I'm still seeing a
substantial amount of misclassifications.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIk

~2400 ways.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1aIl

Most of these outside of townships appear to be still very poorly
classified, and last edited 2 months ago.

Has any correction been done whatsoever?

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 3:39 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> Thanks everybody for your comments.
>
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 16:23, cleary  wrote:
>
>>
>> I am insanely jealous that you can go driving in the countryside.
>>
>
> Sorry to make you feel bad! :-(
>
>  Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
> ___
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> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
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>
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Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au]

We were about to start OSM editing, but we haven't started since we were hoping 
for more potential answers. We didn't want to start it based on just one 
solution/reply.

We will wait for at least three more days to see if anyone else has something 
to add.

Thanks,
Nemanja

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 6:54 AM
To: o...@97k.com
Cc: OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?



On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 13:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
if it's named on the Govt data, then highway=unclassified + access=public; if 
not named highway=unclassified + access=private.

I'm going to have to re-think this theory!

While it's nowhere near as remote as SA, over this last week we've been out in 
SEQ country.

Spotted a few signposted, named roads with gates across them as soon as you 
leave the main road.

eg (Easier using G maps than uploading my dash cam footage!)

https://goo.gl/maps/FrFvKNKZViRVR6uq6<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fmaps%2FFrFvKNKZViRVR6uq6&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C687944ccef374a14b63a08d94ccd40e7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625267619931712%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=mhhzuB97L9E2by1U5ls35j7iUdi9CI7IGibJyFLzY%2Bg%3D&reserved=0>

https://goo.gl/maps/irEj1y4iywBxXPF79<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fmaps%2FirEj1y4iywBxXPF79&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C687944ccef374a14b63a08d94ccd40e7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625267619941705%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=cQVnJVwwMMI7BdDxKajqZFLjBvr3nCPGKra88Xgtsg8%3D&reserved=0>

OSM

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-28.19174/152.54437<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%23map%3D18%2F-28.19174%2F152.54437&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C687944ccef374a14b63a08d94ccd40e7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625267619946705%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=WX03TW6yS%2BHiBTqoNidX5y3k8r3QRSupSGkih8I0C54%3D&reserved=0>
 - Wickman Rd is actually the unmaintained track, not the short service road

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=17/-28.17766/152.54006<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%23map%3D17%2F-28.17766%2F152.54006&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C687944ccef374a14b63a08d94ccd40e7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625267619956699%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=cj%2FjIKGPUbBUha%2Bd31DEldkLKjMb88hOglYSFPLQTDA%3D&reserved=0>
 - shows Wilkinson Rd but it hasn't yet been mapped at all

Looking at imagery, it would appear that these would both be best mapped as 
highway=service + service=driveway + access=private.

Hope that doesn't throw everything into confusion again!

Thanks

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies!
Before we start, please confirm one last thing.
Since we were able to find many cases like this:
https://prntscr.com/1b1ktyz
what would you suggest to do in the shown example?

Please note that it might be the case that we are unable to find any gates or 
barriers on the aerial imagery.

I suppose that access=public is here just to emphasize that road is public, but 
it is an implicit tag.

Thanks once again,
Nemanja

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 5:20 AM
To: o...@97k.com
Cc: OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

Hi Nemanja

Sorry, been busy packing to go away!

Thanks for asking for further feedback :-)

Yep, I'd go along with Michael - if it's named on the Govt data, then 
highway=unclassified + access=public; if not named highway=unclassified + 
access=private.

You'd probably also be able to add surface=unpaved to just about all of them.

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:56, cleary mailto:o...@97k.com>> wrote:
Hello again Nemanja

I response to your question, based on my experience, I still have the view that 
unnamed roads in South Australia are not intended for public access. Therefore, 
if mapped, they should be tagged as access=private. I don't think there would 
be any exceptions but, if there are, individual mappers who survey such areas 
could later amend the access tags and/or add names as appropriate.

If the roads actually exist then I have no problem with mapping them. My 
particular concern is that failing to tag them as private could endanger lives 
and livelihoods.

Thanks for your diligence in following up this issue

Michael Cleary





On Mon, 12 Jul 2021, at 11:07 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I know it might be a vacation period for most people, but if you are
> still online, we would like to know which method is more acceptable for
> the whole community before we proceed.
>
> I really appreciate any help you can provide.
> Nemanja
>
> *From:* Nemanja Bracko (E-Search)
> *Sent:* Monday, July 5, 2021 8:59 AM
> *To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>>; Ewen Hill
> mailto:ewen.h...@gmail.com>>
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>>
> *Subject:* RE: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>
> Thanks again for the constructive suggestions.
>
> My team will treat this very carefully and as a high priority.
>
> Two main questions are here:
>  * Do you want us to correct the classification for every of these
> ~2500 segments?
>* If the answer is Yes, please tell us what to do with the access
> tag. We will strictly follow your guideline. We would like to fix it in
> one pass.
>  * Do you want us to remove all these roads entirely from the map?
>
> Both options are completely fine with us since we have a list of these
> segments already. In any of these two cases, we will process them one
> by one. No bulk edits will be made.
>
> Thanks,
> Nemanja
>
> *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 4, 2021 2:26 AM
> *To:* Ewen Hill mailto:ewen.h...@gmail.com>>
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 17:28, Ewen Hill 
> mailto:ewen.h...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > The examples below could cause significant resentment to OSM and I would 
> > suggest that all are private driveways that I can see. Perhaps we need to 
> > stop updating, reset and look at how to improve the existing edits. An 
> > initial suggestion could be to set all new roads to private, add a fixme 
> > and perhaps organise a map-roulette of these? Of the ten edits I sampled, 
> > all ten appeared to be private driveways on private property.
> >
> > I am sure a few of us would be happy to discuss some of these changesets 
> > with the MS team so we can both learn a little more and see how we can 
> > assist before large changesets.
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=955658598#map=16/-33.8579/137.7863<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D955658598%23map%3D16%2F-33.8579%2F137.7863&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C654932de7df740885b6e08d945adca64%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637617435169910066%7CUnk

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Hi Nemanja

Sorry, been busy packing to go away!

Thanks for asking for further feedback :-)

Yep, I'd go along with Michael - if it's named on the Govt data, then
highway=unclassified + access=public; if not named highway=unclassified +
access=private.

You'd probably also be able to add surface=unpaved to just about all of
them.

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:56, cleary  wrote:

> Hello again Nemanja
>
> I response to your question, based on my experience, I still have the view
> that unnamed roads in South Australia are not intended for public access.
> Therefore, if mapped, they should be tagged as access=private. I don't
> think there would be any exceptions but, if there are, individual mappers
> who survey such areas could later amend the access tags and/or add names as
> appropriate.
>
> If the roads actually exist then I have no problem with mapping them. My
> particular concern is that failing to tag them as private could endanger
> lives and livelihoods.
>
> Thanks for your diligence in following up this issue
>
> Michael Cleary
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021, at 11:07 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know it might be a vacation period for most people, but if you are
> > still online, we would like to know which method is more acceptable for
> > the whole community before we proceed.
> >
> > I really appreciate any help you can provide.
> > Nemanja
> >
> > *From:* Nemanja Bracko (E-Search)
> > *Sent:* Monday, July 5, 2021 8:59 AM
> > *To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick ; Ewen Hill
> > 
> > *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> > *Subject:* RE: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> > contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
> >
> > Thanks again for the constructive suggestions.
> >
> > My team will treat this very carefully and as a high priority.
> >
> > Two main questions are here:
> >  * Do you want us to correct the classification for every of these
> > ~2500 segments?
> >* If the answer is Yes, please tell us what to do with the access
> > tag. We will strictly follow your guideline. We would like to fix it in
> > one pass.
> >  * Do you want us to remove all these roads entirely from the map?
> >
> > Both options are completely fine with us since we have a list of these
> > segments already. In any of these two cases, we will process them one
> > by one. No bulk edits will be made.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Nemanja
> >
> > *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 4, 2021 2:26 AM
> > *To:* Ewen Hill 
> > *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> > *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification
> > contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 17:28, Ewen Hill  wrote:
> > >
> > > The examples below could cause significant resentment to OSM and I
> would suggest that all are private driveways that I can see. Perhaps we
> need to stop updating, reset and look at how to improve the existing edits.
> An initial suggestion could be to set all new roads to private, add a fixme
> and perhaps organise a map-roulette of these? Of the ten edits I sampled,
> all ten appeared to be private driveways on private property.
> > >
> > > I am sure a few of us would be happy to discuss some of these
> changesets with the MS team so we can both learn a little more and see how
> we can assist before large changesets.
> > >
> > >
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=955658598#map=16/-33.8579/137.7863
> <
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D955658598%23map%3D16%2F-33.8579%2F137.7863&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554073989630%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B%2BQlVcXIJgEUgsOIRftp7n0MmS1vEI%2FDylKZsTC7tQw%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > >
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=956458626#map=17/-34.50327/138.97656
> <
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D956458626%23map%3D17%2F-34.50327%2F138.97656&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554073999629%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[cleary]

Hello again Nemanja

I response to your question, based on my experience, I still have the view that 
unnamed roads in South Australia are not intended for public access. Therefore, 
if mapped, they should be tagged as access=private. I don't think there would 
be any exceptions but, if there are, individual mappers who survey such areas 
could later amend the access tags and/or add names as appropriate.  

If the roads actually exist then I have no problem with mapping them. My 
particular concern is that failing to tag them as private could endanger lives 
and livelihoods. 

Thanks for your diligence in following up this issue

Michael Cleary





On Mon, 12 Jul 2021, at 11:07 PM, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I know it might be a vacation period for most people, but if you are 
> still online, we would like to know which method is more acceptable for 
> the whole community before we proceed.
>  
> I really appreciate any help you can provide.
> Nemanja
>  
> *From:* Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) 
> *Sent:* Monday, July 5, 2021 8:59 AM
> *To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick ; Ewen Hill 
> 
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> *Subject:* RE: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>  
> Thanks again for the constructive suggestions.
>  
> My team will treat this very carefully and as a high priority.
>  
> Two main questions are here:
>  * Do you want us to correct the classification for every of these 
> ~2500 segments?
>* If the answer is Yes, please tell us what to do with the access 
> tag. We will strictly follow your guideline. We would like to fix it in 
> one pass.
>  * Do you want us to remove all these roads entirely from the map?
>  
> Both options are completely fine with us since we have a list of these 
> segments already. In any of these two cases, we will process them one 
> by one. No bulk edits will be made.
>  
> Thanks,
> Nemanja
>  
> *From:* Graeme Fitzpatrick  
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 4, 2021 2:26 AM
> *To:* Ewen Hill 
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification 
> contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 17:28, Ewen Hill  wrote:
> >  
> > The examples below could cause significant resentment to OSM and I would 
> > suggest that all are private driveways that I can see. Perhaps we need to 
> > stop updating, reset and look at how to improve the existing edits. An 
> > initial suggestion could be to set all new roads to private, add a fixme 
> > and perhaps organise a map-roulette of these? Of the ten edits I sampled, 
> > all ten appeared to be private driveways on private property. 
> >  
> > I am sure a few of us would be happy to discuss some of these changesets 
> > with the MS team so we can both learn a little more and see how we can 
> > assist before large changesets.
> >  
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=955658598#map=16/-33.8579/137.7863
> >  
> > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D955658598%23map%3D16%2F-33.8579%2F137.7863&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554073989630%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B%2BQlVcXIJgEUgsOIRftp7n0MmS1vEI%2FDylKZsTC7tQw%3D&reserved=0>
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=956458626#map=17/-34.50327/138.97656
> >  
> > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D956458626%23map%3D17%2F-34.50327%2F138.97656&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554073999629%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7OmOT2bGJDvl0AkZpsRPTFpAjy8eg%2BeokGR%2Fw%2FaBhrc%3D&reserved=0>
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=956583567#map=16/-32.6304/138.1584
> >  
> > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fedit%3Feditor%3Did%26way%3D956583567%23map%3D16%2F-32.6304%2F138.1584&data=04%7C01%7Cv-nebrac%40microsoft.com%7C540c3da9302440051c8308d93e82d0c8%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637609554074009621%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7

Re: [talk-au] [EXTERNAL] Re: Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au]

Hi all,

As promised, I'm providing an update regarding the internal check.
Our maintenance team has checked what happened, and here are the results:

  *   We have used the following query to 
filter all ways that may be affected for this task which we have started on 
06/09;
  *   The total number of the ways (segments) is 4,089 produced by our team;
  *   1,566 ways had no issues at all;
  *   1,244 individual roads (mapped as 2,523 segments) had classification 
error, however:
 *   409 roads (1,137 segments) provide some connectivity; these roads are 
not dead ends, however:
*   60 roads have barrier tag;
*   349 roads (945 segments) provide connectivity and do not have any 
barrier tag;

Conclusion:
We have to fix these 349 roads that provide connectivity and do not have any 
barrier tag. We can adjust their classification in the form of 
unclassified|residential > service + service=driveway (if/where applicable), 
but we cannot add any access=private|destination tags since we do not have 
ground truth.

The rest of the roads will not affect any routing engine since these are either 
deadends or have a barrier tag.

Thank you for raising this issue. We will try to prevent such situations in the 
future.

If you have any additional questions regarding this or any future issues, 
please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thank you all,
Nemanja

From: Nemanja Bračko 
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 5:46 PM
To: Frederik Ramm 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [talk-au] Low quality road classification contributions 
in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

Thank you all for support. I have learned that baby's nails nay be razor sharp. 
:)

Anyway, the maintenance team has stopped their work until my colleagues finish 
the analysis - what happened. Most of these are dead ends and these do not 
provide any connectivity (between two roads) so it won't have any influence for 
the missing attribute/tag access=private/destination. We do not have such 
information, except to trace the road per available resources.

We already had such discussion here, and we made corrections in our policies 
regarding to that discussion.

Anyway, I do not want to spoil or to provide any wrong feedback atm, so I'll 
get back to all of you in Monday. Editorial work is stopped for now regarding 
this task.

Thanks,
Nemanja
Sent from my phone

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 09:43 Frederik Ramm 
mailto:frede...@remote.org>> wrote:
Hi,

@Nemanja in a personal capacity, all the best for your kid!

@Nemanja in a business capacity, just so that there are no
misunderstandings: if there are doubts about the quality of an organised
editing activity, that activity needs to pause until the doubts are
resolved.

Getting back to the community after investigation is fine, but the
activity must not continue and potentially introduce more errors in the
mean time.

@AU community, If further bad data is added after a problem has been
flagged, please report the participating accounts to DWG so that we can
stop them.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  
N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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