Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 01/12/2011, at 10:34 PM, Mark Pulley wrote: > On 01/12/2011, at 6:15 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote: >> Deleted by user: cc_cleaner in changeset >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9915617 > > > I've also just noticed that most of Cobar has gone. I did some edits on the > way through in May, some of these have been left alone, but some have > disappeared completely or been replaced by highway=road. Now that I'm back from holidays (and uploaded all my new traces) I've had a chance to have a closer look at Cobar, and done as much as I can to repair the damage. I probably checked the names of some of the streets back in May, but as I no longer have my audio recordings I can't be sure of this, so I've had to leave most of the streets unnamed. > As one example, here is Louth Road: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/119756523 > This is just a stub, this used to link on to the other roads. I've worked out what happened here - the one-way section of Louth Road splits into two at the Barrier Hwy, the stub was one of those branches, the other branch was deleted by cc_cleaner. As Cobar is about 8 hours drive (one way) from home, I won't be going there anytime soon to do further surveys. Mark P.___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
Who or whatever cc_cleaner is, it seems like it might have issues. It has deleted at least one way that should have been safe. Unless i'm misreading the history somehow. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/41754970/history That was was created by Chadzopkyo who has accepted the odbl according to odbl.de It hadn't been edited since until it was deleted. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Henderson wrote: > > On 02/12/11 01:11, Grant Slater wrote: > > > >> I often watch OSM edits using > >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiveMapViewer and noticed the > >> deletes of mostly DrLizAU's contributions. I suspected DrLizAU was > >> removing her own contributions, but cannot back this up. > > > > DrLizAU's ethical standards are very much higher than that in my > experience. > > > > To me it appears that the completely comment-less, stealthy, anonymous > > deletions are more likely to be "official" OSM work. > > Time out. Grant didn't suggest that what cc_cleaner is doing is > unethical. Do you think that it is, John? > > Nor is cc-cleaner anonymous or stealthy. cc_cleaner is just a regular > changeset like any other. While many encourage the use of descriptive > changeset comments some mappers choose not to use them. Have you > asked that user what they are doing? > > Are you disparaging official OSM work? "Official OSM" edits are very > rare indeed. The only ones that I'm aware of would be edits by the > data working group to revert vandalism; those are just regular edits > by regular accounts, marked with descriptive comments and usernames. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Henderson wrote: > On 02/12/11 01:11, Grant Slater wrote: > >> I often watch OSM edits using >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiveMapViewer and noticed the >> deletes of mostly DrLizAU's contributions. I suspected DrLizAU was >> removing her own contributions, but cannot back this up. > > DrLizAU's ethical standards are very much higher than that in my experience. > > To me it appears that the completely comment-less, stealthy, anonymous > deletions are more likely to be "official" OSM work. Time out. Grant didn't suggest that what cc_cleaner is doing is unethical. Do you think that it is, John? Nor is cc-cleaner anonymous or stealthy. cc_cleaner is just a regular changeset like any other. While many encourage the use of descriptive changeset comments some mappers choose not to use them. Have you asked that user what they are doing? Are you disparaging official OSM work? "Official OSM" edits are very rare indeed. The only ones that I'm aware of would be edits by the data working group to revert vandalism; those are just regular edits by regular accounts, marked with descriptive comments and usernames. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 02/12/11 01:11, Grant Slater wrote: I often watch OSM edits using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiveMapViewer and noticed the deletes of mostly DrLizAU's contributions. I suspected DrLizAU was removing her own contributions, but cannot back this up. DrLizAU's ethical standards are very much higher than that in my experience. To me it appears that the completely comment-less, stealthy, anonymous deletions are more likely to be "official" OSM work. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 02/12/11 01:11, Grant Slater wrote: I have nothing to do with the cc_cleaner user's deletes/edits. I often watch OSM edits using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiveMapViewer and noticed the deletes of mostly DrLizAU's contributions. I suspected DrLizAU was removing her own contributions, but cannot back this up. I decided to get stuck in and remap what I could easily remotely remap. PS: LiveMapViewer is awesome ;-) That explains it. Apologies for thinking you might have anything to do with the grim reaper. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 1 December 2011 13:48, John Henderson wrote: > On 01/12/11 22:34, Mark Pulley wrote: > >> User "cc-cleaner"? I've had a quick look at some of the changesets, and >> they all seem to be just deleting things. I have a suspicion that the >> things being deleted are by users who haven't agreed to the new license, >> but I didn't think we were up to this stage yet. >> >> >> Should we get all of these changesets undone? >> >> I've also just noticed that most of Cobar has gone. I did some edits on >> the way through in May, some of these have been left alone, but some >> have disappeared completely or been replaced by highway=road. >> >> As one example, here is Louth Road: >> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/119756523 >> >> This is just a stub, this used to link on to the other roads. No idea >> why this has been done, as I *have* agreed to the new license, so my >> edits don't need to be done again. (This was done by Firefishy, who >> doesn't even live in Australia - I've just sent him a message to enquire >> about this particular way.) > > > I saw the same relationship with Firefishy (from South Africa) and went to > bed puzzling about the coincidence. Firefishy was adding in a little data > within minutes of cc-cleaner's massive deletes. > > I woke up a couple of minutes ago realizing that this pair of users must be > the licence-change grim reaper at work. > I have nothing to do with the cc_cleaner user's deletes/edits. I often watch OSM edits using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LiveMapViewer and noticed the deletes of mostly DrLizAU's contributions. I suspected DrLizAU was removing her own contributions, but cannot back this up. I decided to get stuck in and remap what I could easily remotely remap. PS: LiveMapViewer is awesome ;-) Regards Grant ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:48 AM, John Henderson wrote: > I saw the same relationship with Firefishy (from South Africa) and went to > bed puzzling about the coincidence. Firefishy was adding in a little data > within minutes of cc-cleaner's massive deletes. > > I woke up a couple of minutes ago realizing that this pair of users must be > the licence-change grim reaper at work. I would be surprised if the two accounts were related. cc_cleaner appears to be deleting objects created by ct-decliners. Other accounts are doing the same around the globe, but remap the tainted data from good sources like so. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/387772100/history ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 01/12/11 22:34, Mark Pulley wrote: User "cc-cleaner"? I've had a quick look at some of the changesets, and they all seem to be just deleting things. I have a suspicion that the things being deleted are by users who haven't agreed to the new license, but I didn't think we were up to this stage yet. Should we get all of these changesets undone? I've also just noticed that most of Cobar has gone. I did some edits on the way through in May, some of these have been left alone, but some have disappeared completely or been replaced by highway=road. As one example, here is Louth Road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/119756523 This is just a stub, this used to link on to the other roads. No idea why this has been done, as I *have* agreed to the new license, so my edits don't need to be done again. (This was done by Firefishy, who doesn't even live in Australia - I've just sent him a message to enquire about this particular way.) I saw the same relationship with Firefishy (from South Africa) and went to bed puzzling about the coincidence. Firefishy was adding in a little data within minutes of cc-cleaner's massive deletes. I woke up a couple of minutes ago realizing that this pair of users must be the licence-change grim reaper at work. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 01/12/2011, at 6:15 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:58 PM, John Henderson wrote: >> Lake Cargelligo township shows mapped streets at this zoom level: >> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.3081&lon=146.3792&zoom=12&layers=M >> >> but disappears as you zoom in from there. The detail is also missing in >> JOSM. I presume it used to be there. >> What is going on? > > Deleted by user: cc_cleaner in changeset > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9915617 User "cc-cleaner"? I've had a quick look at some of the changesets, and they all seem to be just deleting things. I have a suspicion that the things being deleted are by users who haven't agreed to the new license, but I didn't think we were up to this stage yet. Should we get all of these changesets undone? I've also just noticed that most of Cobar has gone. I did some edits on the way through in May, some of these have been left alone, but some have disappeared completely or been replaced by highway=road. As one example, here is Louth Road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/119756523 This is just a stub, this used to link on to the other roads. No idea why this has been done, as I *have* agreed to the new license, so my edits don't need to be done again. (This was done by Firefishy, who doesn't even live in Australia - I've just sent him a message to enquire about this particular way.) Mark P. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On 01/12/11 19:15, Andrew Harvey wrote: Deleted by user: cc_cleaner in changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9915617 I found this by looking at this area in the owl viewer: http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/owl_viewer/map Thanks Andrew. I wasn't aware of that facility. It gives me somewhere to start. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Where did the town go?
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:58 PM, John Henderson wrote: > Lake Cargelligo township shows mapped streets at this zoom level: > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.3081&lon=146.3792&zoom=12&layers=M > > but disappears as you zoom in from there. The detail is also missing in > JOSM. I presume it used to be there. > > Once upon a time, you could see previously deleted ways in Potlatch by > pressing "U". Nothing shows when doing that here. > > What is going on? Deleted by user: cc_cleaner in changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/9915617 I found this by looking at this area in the owl viewer: http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/owl_viewer/map ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Where did the town go?
Lake Cargelligo township shows mapped streets at this zoom level: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.3081&lon=146.3792&zoom=12&layers=M but disappears as you zoom in from there. The detail is also missing in JOSM. I presume it used to be there. Once upon a time, you could see previously deleted ways in Potlatch by pressing "U". Nothing shows when doing that here. What is going on? John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
