Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
Translation in english of the title : Municipalities and government of Québec (Canada) will adopt the CC BY 4.0 - Ref. : https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2014-February/006069.html Dear Paul, I am sorry to contradict you, but please find attached copy of my conversation with Simon Poole and le...@osmfoundation.org against the CC 4.0 This conversation includes the response of Simon Poole. I also copy to the list of discussion legal-talk @ I reiterate. It is the responsibility of OSM Foundation to instruct his community of his CC 4.0 interpretation as it has done for the CC 2.0 and CC 3.0 And in my humble opinion, the tiles and the BD licenses should updates to CC 4.0 to reduce proliferation of license, etc. Regards, Note : See press releases http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/un-avantage-pour-les-citoyens-montreal-disposera-de-la-licence-ouverte-cc-4-une-premiere-au-canada-en-matieres-de-donnees-ouvertes/ http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/actualites/fiche_autres_actualites.aspx?id=13362 --- Dre Diane Mercier @MTL_DO | donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca @okfnca | ca.okfn.org @_FACiL | facil.qc.ca @carnetsDM | dianemercier.com http://about.me/dianemercier http://vizualize.me/oKvvtBkJXK?r=oKvvtBkJXK Webographie du libre : https://www.zotero.org/dmercier/items/order/dateModified/sort/desc « Pas de données ouvertes, sans logiciel libre ni formats ouverts » Le 2014-02-21 01:42, Paul Norman a écrit : No one has raised the issue on legal-talk@ since CC 4 was released. *From:*Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:43 AM *To:* diane.merc...@gmail.com; Talk-ca (OSM) *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Merci Diane pour ces infos. Ce sont là de bonnes nouvelles pour la communauté OSM du Québec. Espérons que nous aurons rapidement des nouvelles de la part du comité légal de OSM là-dessus. ---BeginMessage--- Good morning Diane There are two aspects to compatibility of a licence with OSM. On the one hand it has to be compatible with our contributor terms which only provide for attribution on request and on the other hand has to be compatible with our current distribution licence. Essentially this rules out any licence with share alike provisions. We can however provide attribution in a limited fashion. In the past we have deemed CC by 2.0 and 3.0 sources as compatible with OSM if the rights owners have agreed with how we do attribution via our website. Outside of this we have no formal approval purpose for licences, which is no surprise given that we have no lawyers on our staff of zero :-). We would make a determination if and when such a need would arise, if OKFN or your organisation would like to initiate such a review we would naturally gladly take the results in to account. Kind regards Simon Poole Am 17.12.2013 20:18, schrieb Diane Mercier, Ph.D.: Hi, The city of Montreal is currently revising its open license so the OpenStreetMap community can reuse our open geospatial data in your databases and applications. The license model should be approved by the OKFN as well as by the OSM to allow greater reuse of our open data. We were getting ready to reuse the Government of Canada (version 2.0) license which is approved by OKFN and OSM. Have you approved - or are you currently approving - CC 4.0 international just as the OKFN is doing (see od-discuss list)? Note : The french version will be the official one because City of Montréal is a French city in Québec, Canada. An english version will be published at the same time ;-) Best Regards, Dre Diane Mercier Ph.D. Sciences de l'information Chargée de projet principale des données ouvertes Division Communications numériques et graphiques Direction des communications Service du capital humain et des communications Ville de Montréal 303, rue Notre-Dame Est, 1A, Montréal QC H2Y 3Y8 dmerc...@ville.montreal.qc.ca @MTL_DO | donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca 514 872-9702 | donneesouver...@ville.montreal.qc.ca Ambassadrice de l'Open Knowledge Foundation Network - Groupe local au Canada @okfnca | ca.okfn.org @carnetsDM | dianemercier.com « Pas de données ouvertes, sans logiciel libre ni formats ouverts » - Message original - Objet: Re: [Talk-ca] Les licences Creative Commons 4.0 (CC-BY-4.0 et CC-BY-SA-4.0) est-elle acceptée par OSM De: Guillaume Pratte guilla...@guillaumepratte.net Date:Mar 17 décembre 2013 13:05 À: Diane Mercier diane.merc...@gmail.com Bonjour Diane, Tu peux contacter (en anglais) l?équipe légale de la fondation OpenStreetMap à l?adresse suivante: le...@osmfoundation.org Cordialement, Guillaume Le 2013-12-17 à 12:23, Diane Mercier diane.merc...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonjour, Pourriez-vous m'indiquer si OSM accepte les données libérées sous
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
Municipalities and government of Québec will adopt the CC BY 4.0 Diane Le 2014-02-21 07:04, Simon Poole a écrit : This is I believe a simple misunderstanding: le...@osmfoundation.org is the internal list of the LWG legal-t...@openstreetmap.org is the legal discussion mailing list open to the general public. On the matter at hand: as I write in the quoted mail, we are quite open to taking the results of a review of CC by 4.0 wrt compatibility with our contributor terms and the ODbL 1.0 in to account. Note, as I wrote in my mail, it is likely not worth doing for CC by-SA 4.0 as it is clear that a share alike licence will not be CT compatible. Simon Am 21.02.2014 12:12, schrieb Diane Mercier: Translation in english of the title : Municipalities and government of Québec (Canada) will adopt the CC BY 4.0 - Ref. : https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2014-February/006069.html Dear Paul, I am sorry to contradict you, but please find attached copy of my conversation with Simon Poole and le...@osmfoundation.org against the CC 4.0 This conversation includes the response of Simon Poole. I also copy to the list of discussion legal-talk @ I reiterate. It is the responsibility of OSM Foundation to instruct his community of his CC 4.0 interpretation as it has done for the CC 2.0 and CC 3.0 And in my humble opinion, the tiles and the BD licenses should updates to CC 4.0 to reduce proliferation of license, etc. Regards, Note : See press releases http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/un-avantage-pour-les-citoyens-montreal-disposera-de-la-licence-ouverte-cc-4-une-premiere-au-canada-en-matieres-de-donnees-ouvertes/ http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/actualites/fiche_autres_actualites.aspx?id=13362 --- Dre Diane Mercier @MTL_DO | donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca @okfnca | ca.okfn.org @_FACiL | facil.qc.ca @carnetsDM | dianemercier.com http://about.me/dianemercier http://vizualize.me/oKvvtBkJXK?r=oKvvtBkJXK Webographie du libre : https://www.zotero.org/dmercier/items/order/dateModified/sort/desc « Pas de données ouvertes, sans logiciel libre ni formats ouverts » Le 2014-02-21 01:42, Paul Norman a écrit : No one has raised the issue on legal-talk@ since CC 4 was released. *From:*Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:43 AM *To:* diane.merc...@gmail.com; Talk-ca (OSM) *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Merci Diane pour ces infos. Ce sont là de bonnes nouvelles pour la communauté OSM du Québec. Espérons que nous aurons rapidement des nouvelles de la part du comité légal de OSM là-dessus. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
Eh good news for OSM-Quebec community then. Let's wait for the official confirmation of the exact license adopted. Bonne nouvelle pour les contributeurs OSM-Québec. Attendons cependant la confirmation officielle de la licence exacte adoptée. Pierre De : Diane Mercier diane.merc...@gmail.com À : Simon Poole si...@osmfoundation.org; Paul Norman penor...@mac.com; 'Pierre Béland' pierz...@yahoo.fr; 'Talk-ca (OSM)' talk-ca@openstreetmap.org; legal-t...@openstreetmap.org; le...@osmfoundation.org Envoyé le : Vendredi 21 février 2014 8h43 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Municipalities and government of Québec will adopt the CC BY 4.0 Diane Le 2014-02-21 07:04, Simon Poole a écrit : This is I believe a simple misunderstanding: le...@osmfoundation.org is the internal list of the LWG legal-t...@openstreetmap.org is the legal discussion mailing list open to the general public. On the matter at hand: as I write in the quoted mail, we are quite open to taking the results of a review of CC by 4.0 wrt compatibility with our contributor terms and the ODbL 1.0 in to account. Note, as I wrote in my mail, it is likely not worth doing for CC by-SA 4.0 as it is clear that a share alike licence will not be CT compatible. Simon Am 21.02.2014 12:12, schrieb Diane Mercier: Translation in english of the title : Municipalities and government of Québec (Canada) will adopt the CC BY 4.0 - Ref. : https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2014-February/006069.html Dear Paul, I am sorry to contradict you, but please find attached copy of my conversation with Simon Poole and le...@osmfoundation.org against the CC 4.0 This conversation includes the response of Simon Poole. I also copy to the list of discussion legal-talk @ I reiterate. It is the responsibility of OSM Foundation to instruct his community of his CC 4.0 interpretation as it has done for the CC 2.0 and CC 3.0 And in my humble opinion, the tiles and the BD licenses should updates to CC 4.0 to reduce proliferation of license, etc. Regards, Note : See press releases http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/un-avantage-pour-les-citoyens-montreal-disposera-de-la-licence-ouverte-cc-4-une-premiere-au-canada-en-matieres-de-donnees-ouvertes/ http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/actualites/fiche_autres_actualites.aspx?id=13362 --- Dre Diane Mercier @MTL_DO | donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca @okfnca | ca.okfn.org @_FACiL | facil.qc.ca @carnetsDM | dianemercier.com http://about.me/dianemercier http://vizualize.me/oKvvtBkJXK?r=oKvvtBkJXK Webographie du libre : https://www.zotero.org/dmercier/items/order/dateModified/sort/desc « Pas de données ouvertes, sans logiciel libre ni formats ouverts » Le 2014-02-21 01:42, Paul Norman a écrit : No one has raised the issue on legal-talk@ since CC 4 was released. From:Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:43 AM To: diane.merc...@gmail.com; Talk-ca (OSM) Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Merci Diane pour ces infos. Ce sont là de bonnes nouvelles pour la communauté OSM du Québec. Espérons que nous aurons rapidement des nouvelles de la part du comité légal de OSM là-dessus.___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: Eh good news for OSM-Quebec community then. Let's wait for the official confirmation of the exact license adopted. I disagree. Any license drafted or adopted by a Canadian government, other than a no-restrictions, equivalent-to-Public-Domain-license, like ODC-PDDL, will require a waiver or clarification from the municipality (or province / territory, or feds) that attribution as provided by OpenStreetMap (wiki page, probably listed on a sub-page) meets their interpretation of attribution. So, adoption of CC-anything-but-0 is bad for local OSM communities. It would likely work out okay in the end for those local OpenStreetMap communities. To my knowledge, every municipality approached for such a waiver has granted it. To OpenStreetMap Foundation at least. For the Open Data community at large, and for the municipality / governement itself, adoption of any restricting license is a disaster. For one thing, not every potential open project will be on the radar of a municipality in the same way that OpenStreetMap is. Too bad for that potential Open Data Project. Perhaps they'll get the waiver they need, perhaps they won't. Again, any government open data publication in Canada must be licensed ODC-PDDL, or else it is a not-open-enough-closed-data-failure. Another sign of bizarre, Open-blindness. I've had government open data representatives say to me, the equivalent of, So what if the license says something complicated. It's open, just do what you want. We won't go after anybody who breaks the license. We just need to be able to shut down anybody who embarrasses us. Ahem. No. 0) If you plan to grant wavers and exemptions anyway, why not just use an unrestricted license? Oh, did you want to only grant exemptions for projects / persons of whom you approve? That doesn't sound very open. 1) If you don't plan to enforce your license terms, why select (or worse, why draft) a license with restrictions? Select ODC-PDDL instead. 2) If you want developers to work with your data, do you want developers who care enough to read, understand and follow your terms, or not? Because your license with restrictions just cut out a portion of those developers. You can still keep the developers that don't read licenses, or don't care about the terms. Congratulations. 3) What, you want to shut down a use of the data that embarrasses you? No. It doesn't work that way. If Open Data can be shown to expose that your mayor is a pathologically lying, bullying, drug addict with possible links to organized crime, you don't get to shut down the analysis just because your boss finds it embarrassing. (It's just a hypothetical example) 4) If you really do plan to grant a waiver or exemption to every project / user who asks for it, shouldn't you have selected an unrestricted Open Data License that didn't place the burden of that extra waiver step upon you (and each potential user) ? ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
This is I believe a simple misunderstanding: le...@osmfoundation.org is the internal list of the LWG legal-t...@openstreetmap.org is the legal discussion mailing list open to the general public. On the matter at hand: as I write in the quoted mail, we are quite open to taking the results of a review of CC by 4.0 wrt compatibility with our contributor terms and the ODbL 1.0 in to account. Note, as I wrote in my mail, it is likely not worth doing for CC by-SA 4.0 as it is clear that a share alike licence will not be CT compatible. Simon Am 21.02.2014 12:12, schrieb Diane Mercier: Translation in english of the title : Municipalities and government of Québec (Canada) will adopt the CC BY 4.0 - Ref. : https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/2014-February/006069.html Dear Paul, I am sorry to contradict you, but please find attached copy of my conversation with Simon Poole and le...@osmfoundation.org against the CC 4.0 This conversation includes the response of Simon Poole. I also copy to the list of discussion legal-talk @ I reiterate. It is the responsibility of OSM Foundation to instruct his community of his CC 4.0 interpretation as it has done for the CC 2.0 and CC 3.0 And in my humble opinion, the tiles and the BD licenses should updates to CC 4.0 to reduce proliferation of license, etc. Regards, Note : See press releases http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/un-avantage-pour-les-citoyens-montreal-disposera-de-la-licence-ouverte-cc-4-une-premiere-au-canada-en-matieres-de-donnees-ouvertes/ http://www.ville.quebec.qc.ca/actualites/fiche_autres_actualites.aspx?id=13362 --- Dre Diane Mercier @MTL_DO | donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca @okfnca | ca.okfn.org @_FACiL | facil.qc.ca @carnetsDM | dianemercier.com http://about.me/dianemercier http://vizualize.me/oKvvtBkJXK?r=oKvvtBkJXK Webographie du libre : https://www.zotero.org/dmercier/items/order/dateModified/sort/desc « Pas de données ouvertes, sans logiciel libre ni formats ouverts » Le 2014-02-21 01:42, Paul Norman a écrit : No one has raised the issue on legal-talk@ since CC 4 was released. *From:*Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:43 AM *To:* diane.merc...@gmail.com; Talk-ca (OSM) *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Merci Diane pour ces infos. Ce sont là de bonnes nouvelles pour la communauté OSM du Québec. Espérons que nous aurons rapidement des nouvelles de la part du comité légal de OSM là-dessus. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
Merci Diane pour ces infos. Ce sont là de bonnes nouvelles pour la communauté OSM du Québec. Espérons que nous aurons rapidement des nouvelles de la part du comité légal de OSM là-dessus. Pierre De : Diane Mercier diane.merc...@gmail.com À : Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr; Talk-ca (OSM) talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Jeudi 20 février 2014 10h23 Objet : Tr : [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Bonjour, Merci Pierre de me donner l'occasion de préciser quelques points concernant la concertation des municipalités (Montréal, Sherbrooke, Gatineau et Québec) et du gouvernement du Québec (ayant un portail de données ouvertes) pour se doter d'une licence ouverte commune facilitant entre autres la compréhension et la réutilisation de données ouvertes de multiples sources. La licence Creative Commons - Paternité internationale 4.0 - CC BY 4.0, devrait être adoptée bientôt par les instances municipales de la Ville de Montréal - chaque administration publique a son propre processus décisionnel. Pour la Ville de Montréal, cela correspondrait à une suite logique puisqu'en février 2013, nous avions retiré la clause SA. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/deed.fr_CA Prendre note que la version française (comme toutes les autres langues que l'anglais) est en cours de révision http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC_BY_SA_4.0_Francais_-_Draft#Section_1_.E2.80.93_D.C3.A9finitions Notre article reprend le communiqué de presse de la Ville de Montréal d'aujourd'hui : http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/un-avantage-pour-les-citoyens-montreal-disposera-de-la-licence-ouverte-cc-4-une-premiere-au-canada-en-matieres-de-donnees-ouvertes/ De plus, mes conversations avec Simon Poole (comité legal d'OSM) n'ont pu permettre de confirmer qu'OSM va examiner la version CC 4.0 (BY et/ou BY-SA) à court terme comme l'a homologué l'OKFN le 8 janvier dernier. http://blog.okfn.org/2014/01/08/creative-commons-4-0-by-and-by-sa-licenses-approved-conformant-with-the-open-definition/ La CC 4.0 (BY et/ou BY-SA) est une licence ouverte conforme à la définition du savoir libre. Voir aussi le tableau comparatif par rapport à la définition du savoir libre : http://opendefinition.org/licenses/ Le cas échéant, lorsque les instances municipales auront adopté la licence ouverte, je prévois inscrire la mention de paternité Ville de Montréal dans la page Wiki des contributeurs de l'OSM. Cette mention serait liée à notre page de licence qui pointe vers CC BY 4.0. Cela devrait respecter les exigences d'utilisation des BD d'OSM. La CC 4.0 permet l'utilisation d'hyperliens pour la mention d'attribution. URI de la page de la licence ouverte de la Ville de Montréal : http://donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca/licence/ La balle est maintenant du côté d'OSM qui a déjà adopté la licence CC 2.0 et CC 3.0 Je suis disponible pour en discuter à la Journée internationale des données ouvertes, samedi 22 février http://www.eventbrite.com/e/billets-journee-donnees-ouvertes-2014-10149775251 Au plaisir, Dre Diane Mercier @MTL_DO | donnees.ville.montreal.qc.ca @okfnca | ca.okfn.org @_FACiL | facil.qc.ca @carnetsDM | dianemercier.com http://about.me/dianemercier http://vizualize.me/oKvvtBkJXK?r=oKvvtBkJXK Webographie du libre : https://www.zotero.org/dmercier/items/order/dateModified/sort/desc « Pas de données ouvertes, sans logiciel libre ni formats ouverts » Le 2014-02-19 16:55, Pierre Béland a écrit : Bonjour Diane, Dans le communiqué de presse du Gouvernement du Québec, il est simplement spécifié ont ainsi adopté la toute nouvelle version 4.0 de la licence Creative Commons. Cette page montre qu'il y a plusieurs possiblités. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/ Est-il possible d'avoir plus d'infos, a savoir laquelle des licenes Creative Commons 4 est adoptée? Pierre - Mail transféré - De : Bruno Remy bremy.qc...@gmail.com À : talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Mercredi 19 février 2014 16h30 Objet : [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Bonjour, Selon ce communiqué d'adoption d'une licence commune d’utilisation des données ouvertes http://t.co/bKOsO8n5ax Les villes de Québec, Montreal, Gatineau, Sherbrooke et le gouv. Provincial ont unis leur licences maison en une seule licence un peu plus génerique. #opendata http://t.co/pbDvAndrh5 La question que nous devons tous nous poser ici est: cette nouvelle licence est-elle exempte de restriction d'attrubution? Donc share-alike? En d'autres termes, est-elle compatible odbl? Bruno Remy ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
It is a continuing source of frustration to me that Canadian municipalities believe that they may attach any conditions to the data of the citizens. They may not. They must not. Municipalities, provinces / territories and the federal government serve at the pleasure of the citizens. The citizens permit the various governments to collect certain data required to effectively do the jobs that the citizens demand of the governments. The citizens do not permit the governments to restrict the use of this data in any way. The governments MUST publish that part of the collected data that is suitable for publication*. For any level of government to NOT YET be publishing the data of their citizens is for that government to demonstrate itself as incompetent. The government IS NOT mandated by the citizens to include ANY restrictions on the data of the citizens. (that data which is suitable for publication) The data of the citizens MUST be published as public domain data. Since Canadian data law makes no allowance for publication as public domain data, such data must be published under ODC-PDDL. For a municipality to insist on any restriction to the use of the citizens published data is a demonstration of incompetence and ignorance. For a municipality to insist on attribution is a demonstration of monstrous ego. ODC-PDDL is the correct license for Open Data published by Canadian governments. Attribution licenses, regardless of license publisher / maintainer are not. * Data suitable for publication excludes the data that citizens insist that the government hold securely. Medical and other sensitive data is not suitable for publication as Open Data. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
No one has raised the issue on legal-talk@ since CC 4 was released. From: Pierre Béland [mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:43 AM To: diane.merc...@gmail.com; Talk-ca (OSM) Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec Merci Diane pour ces infos. Ce sont là de bonnes nouvelles pour la communauté OSM du Québec. Espérons que nous aurons rapidement des nouvelles de la part du comité légal de OSM là-dessus. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Nouvelle licence de données ouvertes au Québec
Bonjour, Selon ce communiqué d'adoption d'une licence commune d’utilisation des données ouvertes http://t.co/bKOsO8n5ax Les villes de Québec, Montreal, Gatineau, Sherbrooke et le gouv. Provincial ont unis leur licences maison en une seule licence un peu plus génerique. #opendata http://t.co/pbDvAndrh5 La question que nous devons tous nous poser ici est: cette nouvelle licence est-elle exempte de restriction d'attrubution? Donc share-alike? En d'autres termes, est-elle compatible odbl? Bruno Remy ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
