Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Tobias Zwick]

Hi Martin

Understood, thanks for the link. I will post on the SK mailing list as
well then. :-)

Cheers
Tobias

On 13/11/2017 08:51, Martin Ždila wrote:
> Hi Tobias,
> 
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Tobias Zwick  > wrote:
> 
> Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards
> to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers?
> 
> 
> In Slovakia we have so far imported housenumbers of many places but also
> many are still missing.
> 
> We have a wiki page related to this
> at http://wiki.freemap.sk/SupisneCislaKapor.
> 
> Recently a new source of addresses has opened for us so we are planning
> to do another big import. You can read it
> ad https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osm_sk/nV3b2l7ZSnI
>  (also in
> Slovak language).
> 
> For more details please ask on osm...@googlegroups.com
>  because I am directly not working on it.
> 
> Best regards
> --
> Martin Ždila 
> OZ Freemap Slovakia
> tel:+421-908-363-848
> mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk 
> http://www.freemap.sk/
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Miroslav Suchy]

Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a):
>So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers
>on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app.
>Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.


Done.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Addresses=revision=1524281=1513066

Mirek

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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Miroslav Suchy]

Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a):
> So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers
> on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app.
> Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.

I agree that you can disable housenumbers for Czechia. When I am using 
StreetComplete and it is asking me about the
housenumber is is because:
* the housenumber is not put inside of the building area and is just slightly 
off. This is because the centroid from
government has incorrect GPS data. In this case (90% of houses without 
housenumber) adding new number is wrong. The
correct way is just to move point with housenumber inside of the area of 
building.
* the house does not have housenumber because it is, in fact, part of the 
building (garage, barn, etc.)

Mirek

P.S. Thank you for StreetComplete. It is the awesome tool.

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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Martin Ždila]

Hi Tobias,

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Tobias Zwick  wrote:

> Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards
> to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers?
>

In Slovakia we have so far imported housenumbers of many places but also
many are still missing.

We have a wiki page related to this at
http://wiki.freemap.sk/SupisneCislaKapor.

Recently a new source of addresses has opened for us so we are planning to
do another big import. You can read it ad https://groups.google.com/
forum/#!topic/osm_sk/nV3b2l7ZSnI (also in Slovak language).

For more details please ask on osm...@googlegroups.com because I am
directly not working on it.

Best regards
--
Martin Ždila 
OZ Freemap Slovakia
tel:+421-908-363-848
mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk
http://www.freemap.sk/
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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Marián Kyral]

Hi Tobias,

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Tobias Zwick <o...@westnordost.de>
Komu: Marián Kyral <mky...@email.cz>
Datum: 12. 11. 2017 22:28:58
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete 
"Hi Marián

Not sure if I understand you correctly, just to be in the clear:
""
So, you have a source from which you irregularly update the addresses
from. That source is also kept up-to-date and that is why it makes
little sense for surveyors (be it via StreetComplete or using field
papers and JOSM/etc) to add housenumber data and/or is even disruptive. 

Correct?
"



Sorry for confusing you. As described by Jan Martinec, we are using official
up to date government data.





 
"
Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards 
to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers?
"



For historic reasons, we have common address system. It is described there
(unfortunately only in Czech :-( ): https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:
WikiProjekt_%C4%8Cesko/Syst%C3%A9m_adres




In short, we are using:

addr:conscriptionnumber
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr:conscriptionnumber)=* 
Conscription number  -  Only number
addr:provisionalnumber
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr:provisionalnumber)=* 
Provisional number  -  Only number (according to wiki, not used in Slovakia
at all)
addr:streetnumber
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr:streetnumber)=* Street 
number  -  Number or number with letter (e.g. "1", "5d")

(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr)

addr:housenumber(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cs:Key:addr)=* House
number  Only conscription or provisional number. Not both.


If street number exists then use:  conscription (provisional) number /
street number
Otherwise only conscription (provisional) number





E.g.:


1367    - conscription number


1367/67     - conscription number / street number


2238/1a - conscription number / street number

ev.21    - provisional number   (not in SK)


ev.21/1   - provisional number / street number   (not in SK)




In Slovakia, they don't have access to official government data and they are
collecting addresses from various sources. Survey, local imports...

StreetComplete can be usefull for them.





Regards,

Marián



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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Jan Martinec]

Hello Tobias,

Almost correct:

- The source we're using is the official, canonical government house
registry, which is up-to-date pretty much by definition.
- The update interval is fairly regular, albeit long (~monthly, see also
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address_import_from_RUIAN ).
- This is one of the reasons adding address points manually is problematic,
the other reason is that a building *usually* (but not always!) has two
different address numbers (one derived from position in street, the other
assigned by an opaque bureaucratic process). I've seen address points with
0-3 numbers assigned...it's complicated.

(I have no idea how this works in Slovakia.)

Btw, thank you for StreetComplete, it's a great tool :)

Cheers,
Honza "Piškvor" Martinec

Dne 12. 11. 2017 22:29 napsal uživatel "Tobias Zwick" :

Hi Marián

Not sure if I understand you correctly, just to be in the clear:

So, you have a source from which you irregularly update the addresses
from. That source is also kept up-to-date and that is why it makes
little sense for surveyors (be it via StreetComplete or using field
papers and JOSM/etc) to add housenumber data and/or is even disruptive.

Correct?

Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards
to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers?

Cheers
Tobias

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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Tobias Zwick]

Hi Marián

Not sure if I understand you correctly, just to be in the clear:

So, you have a source from which you irregularly update the addresses
from. That source is also kept up-to-date and that is why it makes
little sense for surveyors (be it via StreetComplete or using field
papers and JOSM/etc) to add housenumber data and/or is even disruptive.

Correct?

Regarding Slovakia, so would you say it is the same situation in regards
to that an individual survey is not helpful for housenumbers?

Cheers
Tobias

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Re: [Talk-cz] Adding housenumbers with StreetComplete

[Marián Kyral]

Hi Tobias,

Dne 12.11.2017 v 19:46 Tobias Zwick napsal(a):
> Hi, I am the author of StreetComplete, an Android app with with which
> surveyors can add data to the map directly. More Info here:
> https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete
>
> Amongst other things, the app incites its users to add housenumbers to
> buildings. I have read that in your country, most (all?) housenumbers
> are imported from an official source. But it is not clear to me whether
> this happens regularly, if this means that housenumbers should not be
> added from OSM users etc.

Yes, data are irregularly updated. Usually once per month. See
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/CzechAddress/history

> On the wiki documentation
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Addresses#Country_specific_rules_and_sources
> , it is only documented that a housenumber (possibly?) has more than
> just a housenumber, but also a conscription number etc.
>
> So that is why I would like to ask you whether adding any housenumbers
> on building outlines) should be disabled for your country in the app.
> Ideally, the linked wiki should be updated to reflect the decision made.

Well, some users in past mapped addresses on outlines. We did not retag
them. Import script is able to handle such situation.

Regarding rest of your email below, I don't think that, right now, we
need any address complementation in Czech Republic. But we are using
almost the same system as Slovakia and they are still collecting addresses.

Thanks for StreetComplete and best regards,
Marián

> To help you decide on this, here are some facts about what the app does:
>
> When are users prompted to enter a housenumber?
> ---
>
> 1. Exclusively for buildings tagged as house, residential, apartments,
>detached, terrace, hotel, dormitory, houseboat, school, civic,
>college, university, public, hospital, kindergarten, train_station,
>retail, commercial. Notably not for building=yes
>
> 2. Only for buildings which do not contain (or contain on outline) any
>node that is tagged with a housenumber or -name
>
> 3. Only for buildings that are not contained in a larger area that
>already has a housenumber or -name (such as schools, hospitals,
>campuses etc)
>
> What tags do the users enter?
> -
>
> Users can enter either a addr:housenumber or a addr:housename.
> Alternatively, they can leave an OSM note in which they can explain the
> situation and optionally attach a photo.
> No tags are replaced by this app, the users can only add data. They can
> neither delete previously entered housenumbers nor merge housenumbers
> from nodes onto a building outline and as said above, are also not
> prompted to supply a housenumber for buildings that already contain a
> housenumber node.
>
> By the way, if there are certain , i.e. that the housenumber is not
> sufficient because there are other numbers as well on the housenumber
> sign (conscriptionnumber, streetnumber, provisionalnumber), then, the
> form to input the housenumber could be adapted for within the Czech
> Republic to also ask for the conscription number (etc?).
> But first I need to know if adding housenumbers via this app in your
> country is something that makes sense at all.
>
> -
>
> You might want to follow the forum thread in the Norway and Netherlands
> forum where I asked the same question:
> Norway - https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=671651
> Netherlands - https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=671650
> I also asked the same question on the Denmark mailing list.
>
> (All of the above countries do regular imports of housenumbers from an
> official source).
>
> Cheers
> Tobias
>
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