Re: [Talk-GB] Post box for franked mail only
David Groom revi...@... writes: Our local delivery office has a post box which can only be used for franked mail. I use mailtype=franked. Tagwatch shows a few variants of this: http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Great_britain/En/tags.html (search for 'franked') -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Definitive source for UK streetnames? - OS, 'road name signs', or a council 'list'?
Jason Cunningham wrote: Just read through a short discussion about differences in street names in OSM and 'OS Locator', and problems caused by differences in names given The classic problem is where the road street sign says something like 'Dukes Drive' but OS locator states Duke's Drive. Noticed that common view was OSM mapped what was on the ground, so road sign name was added. Having come across roads where road names differ on adjacent roads signs, I'm not too sure road signs can be 100% relied on, but OS also clearly make mistakes. Has anyone heard of how this problem is dealt with by authorities (eg councils) as they seem to rely on OS as a definitive source for mapping data. The councils will be be working to the street table in their LLPG data, and it is that which is supplied TO OS as the 'correct' local information. There is even a mechanism for advising changes and new streets in the update format. The one thing that is worth noting in this is that POSTCODE is not a requirement in this data, only the NLPG references. Of cause what is more anoying is that while we all pay to create the data via our council tax, http://www.thensg.org.uk/ is owned by a commercial operation that then makes money out of it :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Definitive source for UK streetnames? - OS, 'road name signs', or a council 'list'?
On 06/08/10 14:36, Lester Caine wrote: The councils will be be working to the street table in their LLPG data, and it is that which is supplied TO OS as the 'correct' local information. There is even a mechanism for advising changes and new streets in the update format. Which doesn't explain why Hertfordshire's gazetteer often seems to disagree with the OS about names ;-) Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] OS OpenData Viewer
Hello all, Not sure if this has been mentioned on the lists: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/opendata/viewer/ Note the boundary layer tab in the top-right. I was only aware of http://os.openstreetmap.org/ Cheers, Ben ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Definitive source for UK streetnames? - OS, 'road name signs', or a council 'list'?
On Fri, August 6, 2010 13:33, Jason Cunningham wrote: The classic problem is where the road street sign says something like 'Dukes Drive' but OS locator states Duke's Drive. Has anyone heard of how this problem is dealt with by authorities Would stripping punctuation (and perhaps white space (New Hall Hill vs Newhall Hill) before making comparisons cause any problems? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Motorway junction naming
Hello. I notice that a number of motorway junctions near me have been tagged with rather large names. For example, the name tag for M4 J16, normally referred to locally as Swindon West is: A3102 Swindon West, Wootton Bassett, RAF Lyneham, Calne Should this be simplified in some way? Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Definitive source for UK streetnames? - OS, 'road name signs', or a council 'list'?
This is a more fundamental problem than which source is the correct one -- names aren't properly defined to begin with. The source for most of these names is simply what locals referred to things as 100 years ago, and what managed to stick when some bloke on a horse with a clipboard asked them. For example New Hall Hill was likely a road that went up a hill to a hall that had recently been built. if tho bloke with the clipboard had have arrived 10 years later, it would likely have been noted as Hall Hill or if he'd asked someone at the other end of the road, he'd likely have gotten Old Village Valley Lane etc. There is a lane a few miles from me, it had no name, but it had a doctor's surgery near it. A few decades ago, some surveyer asked a local what it was called and was told Harley Street (in reference to the street in london with doctors surgeries on it) purly as a joke. This landed on an OS map, and ended up on a road sign. This name came out of nowhere, but is now just as much of a real name as any other road in the country. There is also the problem that there are disagreements going on all the time about what places should be named, Where I come from, there is a local debate stagnating about the boundary between 2 areas (I personally belive that they overlap). One of these areas is named after a farm, and one side of the argument goes that the name refers to the farm, and not the area, so the name shouldn't be used. By that logic half the place names in the country should be removed. Back on topic, (in my opinion) a place name is valid if a significant number of people use the name. places, roads etc can all have multiple names, and strategies of using alt names should be used. The actual name field should be set at the most commonly used name. This should almost certainly be the name on the road signs, however as noted, this is not always clear cut, and I know of at least once instance where the only road sign has a blatant spelling mistake in it. If all else fails the locals should be consulted (and actually listened to), as it's them that actually define this stuff for real. In an ideal world, a full election of everyone on the electoral roll living on the street would be good, not that that's even remotely feasible. at the end of the day common sens needs to take over. The first 3 lines of my parents' address are all debatable to varying degrees, so this isn't actually an infrequent issue. Someone from far away using widely held beliefs about the name of the county, and consulting widely spread data about the naming of where they live could have serious problems trying to find them. So in summery, use the best info that you have available: 1) residents knowledge -- this is the closet to authoritive you can get 2) other local knowledge/signs 4) other data sources -- all of which can be subject to errors but include everything that you can and have time to, as even erroneous data will be searched for. JR On 6 August 2010 15:34, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On Fri, August 6, 2010 13:33, Jason Cunningham wrote: The classic problem is where the road street sign says something like 'Dukes Drive' but OS locator states Duke's Drive. Has anyone heard of how this problem is dealt with by authorities Would stripping punctuation (and perhaps white space (New Hall Hill vs Newhall Hill) before making comparisons cause any problems? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Motorway junction naming
Andy Sinclair a...@... writes: I notice that a number of motorway junctions near me have been tagged with rather large names. For example, the name tag for M4 J16, normally referred to locally as Swindon West is: A3102 Swindon West, Wootton Bassett, RAF Lyneham, Calne Should this be simplified in some way? Uh, yeah, I'd suggest that the short name appearing on motorway road signs be tagged as 'name', and if the other stuff really is a name for this junction, it go in as alt_name. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData Viewer
Ben Pollinger benpollinger+...@... writes: Not sure if this has been mentioned on the lists: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/opendata/viewer/ Those little mortar-board icons that appear for schools are fun. I wonder if they could be bulk-imported into OSM as amenity=school source=OS? At least in the case where there is no existing school within a 100m radius. What data file are they from? Note the boundary layer tab in the top-right. That's neat too, and another thing that would be worth bulk-importing. (At the moment it appears that somebody has done so for Norfolk but nowhere else, which makes the map look a bit odd.) -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Definitive source for UK streetnames? - OS, 'road name signs', or a council 'list'?
I recall an intriguing case from one of the very first mapping parties in Rutland. The mapping party was held at Oakam Museum in Catmos Street. It's always been called Catmos Street. It's referred to as Catmos Street in a Francis Frith photo from the 1950s and it was still called Catmos Street in the 1970s when I actually lived there for a while. Trouble is Oakham is located in the middle of the Vale of Catmose, with an E, so many people think the road name is wrong. So what's it called today? 1. On the ground it is clearly shown as Catmos Street on three separate street signs. 2. OSM had it as Catmos Street from 2006 until 2009 when it was changed to Catmose Street. 3. Oakham Library, which is on this road, refers to it as Catmos Street. 4. Rutland Museum, which is on this road, refers to it as Catmose Street. Fortunately Rutland County Council's offices are also on this road so we can be sure of a definitive answer from them. Their website refers to it as just ... Catmose. And just around the corner Catmos(e) Park Road has two street signs. One labelled Catmos Park Road and the other Catmose Park Road. As for Google Maps, well they refer to it as Uppingham Road. 80n On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 4:43 PM, John Robert Peterson jrp@gmail.comwrote: This is a more fundamental problem than which source is the correct one -- names aren't properly defined to begin with. The source for most of these names is simply what locals referred to things as 100 years ago, and what managed to stick when some bloke on a horse with a clipboard asked them. For example New Hall Hill was likely a road that went up a hill to a hall that had recently been built. if tho bloke with the clipboard had have arrived 10 years later, it would likely have been noted as Hall Hill or if he'd asked someone at the other end of the road, he'd likely have gotten Old Village Valley Lane etc. There is a lane a few miles from me, it had no name, but it had a doctor's surgery near it. A few decades ago, some surveyer asked a local what it was called and was told Harley Street (in reference to the street in london with doctors surgeries on it) purly as a joke. This landed on an OS map, and ended up on a road sign. This name came out of nowhere, but is now just as much of a real name as any other road in the country. There is also the problem that there are disagreements going on all the time about what places should be named, Where I come from, there is a local debate stagnating about the boundary between 2 areas (I personally belive that they overlap). One of these areas is named after a farm, and one side of the argument goes that the name refers to the farm, and not the area, so the name shouldn't be used. By that logic half the place names in the country should be removed. Back on topic, (in my opinion) a place name is valid if a significant number of people use the name. places, roads etc can all have multiple names, and strategies of using alt names should be used. The actual name field should be set at the most commonly used name. This should almost certainly be the name on the road signs, however as noted, this is not always clear cut, and I know of at least once instance where the only road sign has a blatant spelling mistake in it. If all else fails the locals should be consulted (and actually listened to), as it's them that actually define this stuff for real. In an ideal world, a full election of everyone on the electoral roll living on the street would be good, not that that's even remotely feasible. at the end of the day common sens needs to take over. The first 3 lines of my parents' address are all debatable to varying degrees, so this isn't actually an infrequent issue. Someone from far away using widely held beliefs about the name of the county, and consulting widely spread data about the naming of where they live could have serious problems trying to find them. So in summery, use the best info that you have available: 1) residents knowledge -- this is the closet to authoritive you can get 2) other local knowledge/signs 4) other data sources -- all of which can be subject to errors but include everything that you can and have time to, as even erroneous data will be searched for. JR On 6 August 2010 15:34, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On Fri, August 6, 2010 13:33, Jason Cunningham wrote: The classic problem is where the road street sign says something like 'Dukes Drive' but OS locator states Duke's Drive. Has anyone heard of how this problem is dealt with by authorities Would stripping punctuation (and perhaps white space (New Hall Hill vs Newhall Hill) before making comparisons cause any problems? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
