Re: [Talk-GB] "Lines of Trees" along river banks etc.

[sk53.osm]

I don't think these are hedgerows at all. They are really relict river
gallery woodland (usually *Salicion albae,*
NVCW6)
and I would expect are mainly Willows with the odd Poplar and Alder.

A photo example (and a location) might help.

Typical components along the Trent (Notts & Derbys) and Thames (Berks &
Bucks)  will be:

   - planted trees, usually hybrid Poplar and White Willow, but some real
   oddities
   - Crack Willow and Alder as standard trees
   - pollarded trees, mainly Crack Willow
   - shrubby trees, predominantly Osier and Grey Willow, but some Almond &
   Purple Willow
   - occasionally dense scrub with Hawthorn and Elder

The willows nearly always are self-set. Any willow twig broken off in a
flood is capable of regenerating (for Crack Willow and Native Black Poplar
this is the usual means of propagation), provided there is enough moisture.
This means that river banks are naturally always getting new additions, and
that clearance of willow scrub is a never ending task. However, the zone
where this happens is quite narrow, depending of height of flood waters and
maintaining the relevant moisture levels.

I don't know much about palatability of willows to livestock, but suspect
they are not very tasty. When fields have grazing next to a river, usually
cattle will have made a few gaps to get at the water, but my impression is
that they don't graze on willows, although sheep probably do.

It may be useful to show that a water body is tree-lined. I personally use
tree_lined=yes on tree-lined roads (more as a place holder), but there is
also natural=row_of_trees. You might want left and right. For the scrub
willow thickets I think natural=scrub is the right tag, even if you choose
to put it on a way (these will be NVC W1-W3, with W1 being the commonest).

Regards,

Jerry


On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Dudley Ibbett wrote:

> Hi
>
> I was wondering if anyone has been mapping these?   Quite often I come
> across streams and rivers where there are dense lines of trees along the
> river banks.  Occasional I find lines of trees which seem to be remnant
> hedgerows where the shrubs have been removed.
>
> Looking on line it would seem that these are a hedgerow type.
>
>
> http://www.hedgelink.org.uk/images/bap/key%20to%20hedgerow%20types%20bigger.jpg
>
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69285/pb11951-hedgerow-survey-handbook-070314.pdf
>
> This would perhaps suggest they should be marked as ways with
> barrier=hedge and hedge=line_of_trees or perhaps just the latter.
>
> An alternative might be to use natural=tree_row which is defined in the
> wiki but the examples seem more to related to trees that have been planted
> at regular intervals and where there isn't generally an overlap in the
> canopy.  I have used this a few times but I'm not convinced it is the right
> way to tag this feature given that it seems they are a type of hedgerow.
>
> This may be something for the tagging email group but these a quite common
> features in the UK so I thought it would be good to ask here first.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Dudley
>
>
>
>
>
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[Talk-GB] SOTM 2013 - Final programme and end of "mates rates"

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi All,

== SOTM Final Programme ==
After a lot of hard work and many long hours the final programme for State
of the Map 2013 is now available to view at
http://2013.stateofthemap.org/info/programme/

This will also be copied over to Lanyrd in the coming days and the
preceding text updated on the page above to provide a link.

== Mates Rates tickets ==
Due to high demand we are getting close to being full. As such, we will be
closing the "mates rates" discounted tickets at 12 noon BST this Friday. Be
quick if you want to get the cheaper entry rates!

Looking forward to seeing many of you at State of the Map 2013,
Rob

stateofthemap.org
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Re: [Talk-GB] "Lines of Trees" along river banks etc.

[Dudley Ibbett]

Hi

I was wondering if anyone has been mapping these?   Quite often I come across 
streams and rivers where there are dense lines of trees along the river banks.  
Occasional I find lines of trees which seem to be remnant hedgerows where the 
shrubs have been removed.

Looking on line it would seem that these are a hedgerow type.  

http://www.hedgelink.org.uk/images/bap/key%20to%20hedgerow%20types%20bigger.jpg

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69285/pb11951-hedgerow-survey-handbook-070314.pdf

This would perhaps suggest they should be marked as ways with barrier=hedge and 
hedge=line_of_trees or perhaps just the latter.

An alternative might be to use natural=tree_row which is defined in the wiki 
but the examples seem more to related to trees that have been planted at 
regular intervals and where there isn't generally an overlap in the canopy.  I 
have used this a few times but I'm not convinced it is the right way to tag 
this feature given that it seems they are a type of hedgerow.

This may be something for the tagging email group but these a quite common 
features in the UK so I thought it would be good to ask here first.

Many Thanks

Dudley



 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards

[sk53.osm]

Yes, churchyard doesn't work very well for non-Christian sites, and indeed
many christian ones. Quaker meeting houses are not usually described as
churches.

I could live with landuse=religious_precinct, but not precinct per se.
First off our US members will instantly start mapping votiing districts and
the Kennedy 'precinct' with the tag thus making it as meaningless as their
use of place=hamlet. Secondly its general use is pretty much American
English. Lastly, other meanings as listed on Wikipedia give scope for
ambiguity.

Any extension of place_of_worship with (_precinct) or (_grounds) seems
unusually clunky.

Jerry


On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:41 PM, OpenStreetmap HADW wrote:

> On 28 August 2013 09:50, sk53.osm  wrote:
>
> > churchyard (probably the tag you are looking for landuse=churchyard, to
> > heavily used but in existence) instead of a church: you need one of the
>
> I was hoping for something with less Christian connotations.  Besides
> having a zero taginfor score, landuse=templeyard  (also temple_yard)
> is just balkanizing the tagging.  landuse=precinct
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct#Religion) might have been
> better, but that also has a zero score, and it is maybe not a well
> known term ("temple precinct" has 54,000 hits on Google, though
> (58,000 with church and 27,000 with cathedral).  Do I have a prima
> facie case for proposing precinct, here?
>
> I wonder if there is an efficient way to search for the immediate
> containing feature for building=temple, to find precedents.  I guess
> one can xapi the temples, then do a bounding box fetch around each.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards

[OpenStreetmap HADW]

On 28 August 2013 09:50, sk53.osm  wrote:

> churchyard (probably the tag you are looking for landuse=churchyard, to
> heavily used but in existence) instead of a church: you need one of the

I was hoping for something with less Christian connotations.  Besides
having a zero taginfor score, landuse=templeyard  (also temple_yard)
is just balkanizing the tagging.  landuse=precinct
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct#Religion) might have been
better, but that also has a zero score, and it is maybe not a well
known term ("temple precinct" has 54,000 hits on Google, though
(58,000 with church and 27,000 with cathedral).  Do I have a prima
facie case for proposing precinct, here?

I wonder if there is an efficient way to search for the immediate
containing feature for building=temple, to find precedents.  I guess
one can xapi the temples, then do a bounding box fetch around each.

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Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 mapping

[Peter Miller]

Thanks for that. Is there any chance that this ROW information can be added
to OSM? Possibly I am missing something, but it seems to be adding
complexity to have to fish around in another database for this information.

Regards,


Peter



On 25 August 2013 18:04, Barry Cornelius  wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013, Peter Miller wrote:
>
>> Just to highlight some mapping ITO have just released [
>> http://hs2maps.com/], which was developed with CPRE showing the
>> construction, landuse and operation impacts of the High Speed 2 line. ...
>> Would be great to get more detail into OSM along the route, in particular
>> footpaths and heritage details so the project is based on a thorough
>> understanding of the impacts. We will update the maps from time to time,
>> and use the latest OSM data when we do so.
>>
>
> If you wish to detect which public rights of way (PROWs) are close to the
> route of the proposed HS2, my web site http://www.thehs2.com may help.
>
> www.thehs2.com can be used to display a map showing:
>the route of the HS2;
>the PROWs that are close to the route of the HS2;
>the points at which these PROWs cross the route of the HS2.
> The underlying map can be from the Ordnance Survey, OpenStreetMap, Google
> or Bing.
>
> Examples are:
>Phase 1 (from London to the West Midlands):
>   http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/**maps/showmap.php?place=South%**
> 20Heath&type=rcOSM&lat=51.705&**lon=-0.677&zoom=13
>Phase 2 (from the West Midlands to the North West and the North East):
>   http://www.thehs2.com/phase2/**maps/showmap.php?place=**
> Culcheth&type=rcOSM&lat=53.45&**lon=-2.52&zoom=13
>
> Those web pages show a map from OpenStreetMap with various items
> superimposed on the map:
>a multi-coloured line that shows the route of the HS2;
>some cyan coloured lines showing the route of PROWs;
>some circles showing crossing points (i.e., where HS2 and a PROW meet).
> You can click on any of these items to get more details about the item.
>
> www.thehs2.com provides information about PROWs close to the HS2 as
> follows:
>Phase 1:
>   Only for those PROWs which I've walked.  This is all but two of the
>   crossing points between Euston and Offchurch (near Leamington Spa).
>   Because of my GPS device, this data is inaccurate in places.
>Phase 2:
>   Only for those PROWs where the council has released data about their
>   PROWs.  This is actually most of the PROWs as only the councils of
>   Manchester, Sheffield and Trafford are unable to supply data.
>
> The data is also available in KML format:
>Phase 1:
>   crossing points: 
> http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/**kmls/c/all.kml
> PROWs: 
> http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/**kmls/r/all.kml
>Phase 2:
>   crossing points: 
> http://www.thehs2.com/phase2/**kmls/c/all.kml
> PROWs: 
> http://www.thehs2.com/phase2/**kmls/r/all.kml
>
> The crossing points are also available in csv files:
>Phase 1:
>   
> http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/**kmls/c/all.csv
>Phase 2:
>   
> http://www.thehs2.com/phase2/**kmls/c/all.csv
> In these csv files, the word "Fill" means "embankment" and the phrase
> "At Grade" means "level with the nearby land".
>
> So these maps/data may help you find the PROWs which cross the route of
> the HS2 that are missing from OpenStreetMap and so need some mapping done.
>
> --
> Barry Cornelius
> http://www.northeastraces.com/
> http://www.thehs2.com/
> http://www.rowmaps.com/
> http://www.oxonpaths.com/
> http://www.barrycornelius.com/
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] HS2 mapping

[Peter Miller]

Nice,

We are keen to add a heritage layer to the mapping. Nothing certain, but
will be great to have more data for the route.


Regards,


Peter



On 26 August 2013 21:52, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi Peter
>
> I'm gradually adding listed buildings along the route in Warwickshire
>
> regards
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 21 August 2013 15:52, Peter Miller  wrote:
>
>>
>> Just to highlight some mapping ITO have just released, which was
>> developed with CPRE showing the construction, landuse and operation impacts
>> of the High Speed 2 line.
>>
>> Many thanks for the hundreds of people who have contributed to the base
>> OSM data which is used within the maps. Needless to say, it also uses
>> information from a number of other sources.
>>
>> Would be great to get more detail into OSM along the route, in particular
>> footpaths and heritage details so the project is based on a thorough
>> understanding of the impacts. We will update the maps from time to time,
>> and use the latest OSM data when we do so.
>> http://hs2maps.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Peter Miller CEO
>>
>> +44(0) 7774 667213
>>
>> ITO World Ltd - Registered in England & Wales - Registration Number
>> 5753174
>>
>> Office - 2nd Floor, 25 Lower Brook Street, Ipswich, IP4 1AQ.
>>
>> Registered Office - 32 Hampstead Heath, London, NW3 1JQ.
>>
>> Telephone - 01473 272225
>>
>> www.itoworld.com
>>
>> IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are
>> confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only.
>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the system
>> manager or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to
>> anyone or make copies thereof.
>>
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>>
>


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Office - 2nd Floor, 25 Lower Brook Street, Ipswich, IP4 1AQ.

Registered Office - 32 Hampstead Heath, London, NW3 1JQ.

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Re: [Talk-GB] State of the Map Scotland 2013 October 11-12 - Speakers

[Gregory]

Hi Bob,

When and where?
Okay, I eventually found
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_Scotland_2013 (I don't
think it was mentioned on the Scotland page).
Friday 11th and Saturday 12th October 2012 10am-4pm, Edinburgh.

I might be interested (need to work out if I could make it). I've started
mulling over some talk ideas, but too late for the main SotM.
Are you coming to Birmingham for SotM13?

Greg.


On 28 August 2013 11:03, Bob Kerr wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are starting to organise speakers for State of the map Scotland. I know
> everyone will be busy with SOTM2013 but if there are people that would like
> to give talks at our event please let me know
>
> Cheers
>
> Bob
>
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[Talk-GB] State of the Map Scotland 2013 October 11-12 - Speakers

[Bob Kerr]

Hi,

We are starting to organise speakers for State of the map Scotland. I know 
everyone will be busy with SOTM2013 but if there are people that would like to 
give talks at our event please let me know

Cheers

Bob
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Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards

[sk53.osm]

The convention exists because the grounds in which a place of worship
exists are rarely places of worship themselves. Try conducting a marriage
in a churchyard (probably the tag you are looking for
landuse=churchyard,
to heavily used but in existence) instead of a church: you need one of the
new-fangled expensive wedding licences. Or telling my local vicar and his
wife that they live in a place of worship.

The churchyard belonging to my mother's church contains, inter alia, two
places of worship (CoE and a Nigerian church), a gym (amenity=fitness) ,
YMCA hostel, two private residences (rented out by the parish)., and as far
as I can make out a small urban farm.

As an alternative we could just take a Quaker view and say all of life is
holy and just tag an object bbox -180,-90,180,90 with
amenity=place_of_worship and be done with it.


On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

> OpenStreetmap HADW wrote:
> > The rules for places of worship
>
> This is OpenStreetMap. We don't have rules. Stop placing so much trust in
> the wiki. :)
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Grounds-of-Places-of-Worshiip-when-not-Graveyards-tp5775209p5775214.html
> Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards

[Richard Fairhurst]

OpenStreetmap HADW wrote:
> The rules for places of worship

This is OpenStreetMap. We don't have rules. Stop placing so much trust in
the wiki. :)

cheers
Richard





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[Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards

[OpenStreetmap HADW]

The rules for places of worship differ from other amenities in that
there is a strong diktat that only the actual building (where there is
a building) should be tagged.  This seems to be partially backed up by
an assumption that all places of worship are medieval churches with
graveyards, so that the surrounding grounds can be tagged as a
cemetery.  That simply isn't true for even most of the Christian
churches around me, let alone for other religions.

The specific case I have in mind is what I call the Ealing Road
Temple** , which was
under construction for a long time, and probably is still not
complete, but has been operating for over a year.  The grounds for
this are tagged as landuse=construction, with no details of the actual
building.  According to the rules, one needs to map the building and
mark that as a place_of_worship, but what does one do with the site
that it is on?  Simply removing it would be destroying real
information.  Leaving it as it is would no longer reflect the true
state.

** It does have a name, but, until I next get down there, I'd have to
rely on Google for that.

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Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN Stops and Hail and Ride Buses

[OpenStreetmap HADW]

On 24 August 2013 12:32, sk53.osm  wrote:
> I doubt if anyone checks the Naptan account: it's an import account largely
> to separate personal mapping from imports. Furthermore I don't know how
> active the user who co-ordinated the imports is these days: info is
> available on the wiki.

The wiki refers to using that account.

In the absence of any definitive, it looks like I will have to take a
conservative approach and just add notes to the effect that the
locations are now correct, for the ones that do have the timetable.  I
will have to make a judgement about whether there is any element of a
customary stop for the others.

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