Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Dave F.]

Supposedly there was a discussion & the outcome was to convert all, 
including UK, to kph. I can't find that thread ATM.



On 05/09/2015 10:46, Phillip Barnett wrote:

I'm on a train in East Anglia at the moment and the signs next to the track 
still appear to be miles per hour.




On 5 Sep 2015, at 09:18, Dave F.  wrote:

Hi

A user has been converting the maxspeed tag of railway line from mph to kph:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/278060675/history#map=17/51.42363/-2.72120

It appears to be a straight conversion ie 100mph = 161. Which seems a bit 
silly. I'm sure the limit wouldn't be exactly 161.

I thought that mph was valid as long as it was labelled as such.

Are the signs next to the rails still in mph?

His edits appear to be country wide.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/308866549/history

I've sent him a message asking why he's doing it.

Dave F.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Phillip Barnett]

I'm on a train in East Anglia at the moment and the signs next to the track 
still appear to be miles per hour.



> On 5 Sep 2015, at 09:18, Dave F.  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> A user has been converting the maxspeed tag of railway line from mph to kph:
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/278060675/history#map=17/51.42363/-2.72120
> 
> It appears to be a straight conversion ie 100mph = 161. Which seems a bit 
> silly. I'm sure the limit wouldn't be exactly 161.
> 
> I thought that mph was valid as long as it was labelled as such.
> 
> Are the signs next to the rails still in mph?
> 
> His edits appear to be country wide.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/308866549/history
> 
> I've sent him a message asking why he's doing it.
> 
> Dave F.
> 
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> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Andy Townsend]

On 05/09/15 09:18, Dave F. wrote:

Hi

A user has been converting the maxspeed tag of railway line from mph 
to kph:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/278060675/history#map=17/51.42363/-2.72120 



It appears to be a straight conversion ie 100mph = 161. Which seems a 
bit silly. I'm sure the limit wouldn't be exactly 161.


I thought that mph was valid as long as it was labelled as such.

Are the signs next to the rails still in mph?



All the ones I've seen in Notts and Derbys still are.  I can't comment 
on further afield, although I do vaguely remember seeing something on 
the news a couple of months ago saying that the train management system 
on the ECML was being changed to something* that would register in-cab 
speeds in km/h.



His edits appear to be country wide.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/308866549/history

I've sent him a message asking why he's doing it.





FWIW I did ask a previous mph -> km/h changer the same question:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30977485

Cheers,

Andy (SomeoneElse)


* which might be 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Rail_Traffic_Management_System or 
something else - not sure.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Dave F.]

On 05/09/2015 11:47, Andy Townsend wrote:


FWIW I did ask a previous mph -> km/h changer the same question:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30977485


I've also asked that user for the reasons. No response yet.

"better interpretable format"
Hmm... Is it just me, or does that seem like another way of saying 
'tagging for the renderer'?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[David Woolley]

On 05/09/15 11:47, Andy Townsend wrote:

the train management system on the ECML was being changed to something*
that would register in-cab speeds in km/h.


I suspect that most of the visible signs are redundant and it is the 
electronic system that is the only thing that can carry any weight.


Unfortunately, the electronic system values are not visible to the 
general public, so don't meet the "what's on the ground" criteria.


On the other hand, railways tend to attract the sort of level of 
enthusiasm that tends to result in ineligible sources being used, 
because people are more concerned that the information be mapped than 
that the source be copyright compatible.


If they have simply converted the signs, I would say that is wrong, 
unless there is an official document that specifies the algorithm to be 
used.  I would have thought any algorithm would need to round down, in 
case existing limits only just fitted with safety, so 100mph, would need 
to be 160 km/h, not 161.  (It's unlikely limits are cut this close, but 
if you start allowing it once, you can end up with errors accumulating.)


I've just read the latest update.  I would say "better interpretable 
format" is wrong.  It is destroying information, even if it is only 66 
m/h in this case.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Philip Barnes]

On Sat, 2015-09-05 at 11:47 +0100, Andy Townsend wrote:
> 

> All the ones I've seen in Notts and Derbys still are.  I can't
> comment 
> on further afield, although I do vaguely remember seeing something on
> the news a couple of months ago saying that the train management
> system 
> on the ECML was being changed to something* that would register in
> -cab 
> speeds in km/h.
> 
The line speed through Wem is signed as 90, I assume its mph because
the trains come through at a lot more than 56 mph.

Phil

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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Antje]

Dear Lester Caine,

Yes. 

—Amaroussi.

> On 5 Sep 2015, at 14:36, Lester Caine  wrote:
> 
> On 05/09/15 09:18, Dave F. wrote:
>> Are the signs next to the rails still in mph?
>> 
>> His edits appear to be country wide.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/308866549/history
>> 
>> I've sent him a message asking why he's doing it.
> 
> The whole system still works to MPH acording to the current working books
> http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/10563.aspx
> Anything else is simply incorrect, so these changes should be reverted
> back to the correct data?
> 
> -- 
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Paul Sladen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2015, Paul Sladen wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Sep 2015, Philip Barnes wrote:
> > The line speed through Wem is signed as 90, I assume its mph
> Black-numerals-on-white-circular is mph, White-on-black is kph.

Can't find a pictures from St Pancras, but around Ashford:

  http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_psr2/p_psr2.html#pic_mphkmh
  http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_psr2/pic_mphkmh.jpg

-Paul
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Paul Sladen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015, Philip Barnes wrote:
> The line speed through Wem is signed as 90, I assume its mph

Black-numerals-on-white-circular is mph, White-on-black is kph.

Best place to see this is at the end of the platforms 6-11 at St
Pancras, where both are present based on the depature route.

Tram diamond speed limits are in kph.

-Paul

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Re: [Talk-GB] Rail maxspeeds being converted

[Lester Caine]

On 05/09/15 09:18, Dave F. wrote:
> Are the signs next to the rails still in mph?
> 
> His edits appear to be country wide.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/308866549/history
> 
> I've sent him a message asking why he's doing it.

The whole system still works to MPH acording to the current working books
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/10563.aspx
Anything else is simply incorrect, so these changes should be reverted
back to the correct data?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
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Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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