[Talk-gb-westmidlands] HS2footpath diversions

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

Who is closest to this and wants to do a survey?

CubbingtonThe path known as 129d off Mill Lane has been temporarily
diverted at the edge of South Cubbington Wood. The diversion will be in
place while enabling works take place along 129d for site set-up,
archaeology, ground investigations, surveys and creating new wildlife
habitats for HS2’s green corridor. These activities involve heavy machinery
crossing parts of the 129d, requiring a diversion.The public right of way
known as W130 will be temporarily closed, with a diversion in place, from
early March 2020. HS2’s enabling works contractor will oversee the
construction of two diversionsfor W130 to create a safe walking loop around
our worksites
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

[SK53]

It's worth pointing out that the same can be done with the following
editors: iD, Potlatch2, and Vespucci. The actual formats (gpx, kml, shape,
geojson) vary a bit, but all have the capability.

For some years I've loaded KMLs onto Maps.Me so I can actually check the
line in the field (I've made Garmin files too, but this is easier &
quicker).

Jerry

On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 12:26, Tony OSM  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I had the Lancashire KML file handy (as you do),  looked up JOSM import
> and found the OpenData plug in. Dropped the KML file onto the plug in and
> it created a lancashire.kml layer with all of the ways on the layer and the
> kml fields as tags.
>
> When combined with OSM data and ESRI imagery it provides a really useful
> view of the footpaths. I have a paint style which picks out some PROW types
> which allows me to see what is in osm and what isn't. So I can do some
> manual editing.
>
> From the kml layer I have all the data to determine the Parish, Type &
> PROW ref - that is manual tag editing.
>
>
> This view does allow me to see existing paths and PROW's and manually
> determine what mapping I can do.
>
>
> Overlaying kml onto the imagery has already helped me to see a path I was
> confused about - where it actually went. I'll be able to go out and survey
> soon.
>
> JOSM in the Edit dropdown has a Merge layer capability - I think this
> should be avoided at all costs as that would constitute an unmanaged data
> import of the whole of the KML file - an OSM disaster.
>
>
> Adding a GPS layer will make this an awesome toolkit.
>
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 14/05/2020 11:45, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
>
> Hello Tony and Gareth,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> My main thought was a specialised JOSM plugin - I did take a look at OSM's
> main GPX trace facility but it appears not to preserve tags in the uploaded
> trace. Some versions of the MapThePaths app (the first version, and the
> current version on Gitlab) allow GPX upload to OSM but the tags are removed.
>
> So I'm thinking that my own storage (I have quite a bit of available
> storage) and a custom JOSM plugin, which, for example, creates colour-coded
> and clickable traces showing the ROW designation, surface and highway tags
> might be the way to go.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
> --
> *From:* Gareth L  
> *Sent:* 14 May 2020 09:56
> *To:* Tony OSM  
> *Cc:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for
> newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)
>
> I wonder if it would be possible to use the GPS trace feature on OSM for
> this? Maybe format the name in a way to make it easier to retrieve?
>
> Takes care of the storage of the traces.
>
>
> On 14 May 2020, at 09:22, Tony OSM 
>  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi Nick
>
> I like the two stage approach - surveying then mapping. It would work well
> - some of my friends like walking but can't map to save their life, whereas
> I can't walk far but love mapping - Win Win for us all.
>
>
> May I suggest that a layer be created for JOSM with all the paths and
> their details as provided for MapThePaths. Personally I find it easier to
> work with JOSM and I have learnt to create a style to highlight PROW's, but
> I don't know how to create a JOSM layer.
>
> Separate layers would allow us to manually transfer from PROW layer to MAP
> layer thus avoiding the mechanical import rules, and would allow us to
> manually conflate where a path is already mapped but PROW data is absent.
>
> A layer containing the surveyed GPS data so that all the sources we need
> are available would be awesome.
>
>
> I may be asking for a workflow that is close to existing, if that is the
> case I am able to test and document the workflow for the UK wiki if that
> would be helpful.
>
>
> Tony Shield
>
> TonyS999
>
>
> On 13/05/2020 18:11, Nick Whitelegg wrote:
>
>
> Oops... sorry one or two editing errors in the last paragraph.
>
> I meant to say:
>
> "They [the non-expert user] select ROW type and path surface via a nice
> interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated, *with trksegs tagged
> with ROW designation and surface* (which was done by the first version of
> the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and
> volunteer expert users *are alerted*. Said expert user then downloads the
> GPX trace and, *using the tags in the trksegs of the GPX* then edits in
> JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web
> app. (I am possibly thinking of adding way creation into the MapThePaths
> web app anyway, time depending)."
>
> Nick
>
> --
> *From:* Nick Whitelegg
> *Sent:* 13 May 2020 18:08
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
> 
> *Subject:* Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM
> (perhaps!)
>
> Hi,
>
> Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been
> noticing that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away from
> the 'honeypot' areas with little or now ROW 

Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

[Tony OSM]

Hi

I had the Lancashire KML file handy (as you do),  looked up JOSM import 
and found the OpenData plug in. Dropped the KML file onto the plug in 
and it created a lancashire.kml layer with all of the ways on the layer 
and the kml fields as tags.


When combined with OSM data and ESRI imagery it provides a really useful 
view of the footpaths. I have a paint style which picks out some PROW 
types which allows me to see what is in osm and what isn't. So I can do 
some manual editing.


From the kml layer I have all the data to determine the Parish, Type & 
PROW ref - that is manual tag editing.



This view does allow me to see existing paths and PROW's and manually 
determine what mapping I can do.



Overlaying kml onto the imagery has already helped me to see a path I 
was confused about - where it actually went. I'll be able to go out and 
survey soon.


JOSM in the Edit dropdown has a Merge layer capability - I think this 
should be avoided at all costs as that would constitute an unmanaged 
data import of the whole of the KML file - an OSM disaster.



Adding a GPS layer will make this an awesome toolkit.


Tony


On 14/05/2020 11:45, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

Hello Tony and Gareth,

Thanks for your thoughts.

My main thought was a specialised JOSM plugin - I did take a look at 
OSM's main GPX trace facility but it appears not to preserve tags in 
the uploaded trace. Some versions of the MapThePaths app (the first 
version, and the current version on Gitlab) allow GPX upload to OSM 
but the tags are removed.


So I'm thinking that my own storage (I have quite a bit of available 
storage) and a custom JOSM plugin, which, for example, creates 
colour-coded and clickable traces showing the ROW designation, surface 
and highway tags might be the way to go.


Thanks,
Nick

*From:* Gareth L 
*Sent:* 14 May 2020 09:56
*To:* Tony OSM 
*Cc:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
*Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for 
newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)
I wonder if it would be possible to use the GPS trace feature on OSM 
for this? Maybe format the name in a way to make it easier to retrieve?


Takes care of the storage of the traces.



On 14 May 2020, at 09:22, Tony OSM  wrote:



Hi Nick

I like the two stage approach - surveying then mapping. It would work 
well - some of my friends like walking but can't map to save their 
life, whereas I can't walk far but love mapping - Win Win for us all.



May I suggest that a layer be created for JOSM with all the paths and 
their details as provided for MapThePaths. Personally I find it 
easier to work with JOSM and I have learnt to create a style to 
highlight PROW's, but I don't know how to create a JOSM layer.


Separate layers would allow us to manually transfer from PROW layer 
to MAP layer thus avoiding the mechanical import rules, and would 
allow us to manually conflate where a path is already mapped but PROW 
data is absent.


A layer containing the surveyed GPS data so that all the sources we 
need are available would be awesome.



I may be asking for a workflow that is close to existing, if that is 
the case I am able to test and document the workflow for the UK wiki 
if that would be helpful.



Tony Shield

TonyS999


On 13/05/2020 18:11, Nick Whitelegg wrote:


Oops... sorry one or two editing errors in the last paragraph.

I meant to say:

"They [the non-expert user] select ROW type and path surface via a 
nice interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated, *with 
trksegs tagged with ROW designation and surface* (which was done by 
the first version of the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the 
MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users *are alerted*. Said 
expert user then downloads the GPX trace and, *using the tags in the 
trksegs of the GPX* then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - 
or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking 
of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time 
depending)."


Nick


*From:* Nick Whitelegg
*Sent:* 13 May 2020 18:08
*To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org  
 
*Subject:* Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to 
OSM (perhaps!)

Hi,

Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been 
noticing that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away 
from the 'honeypot' areas with little or now ROW mapping at all 
meaning there's still quite a big job to be done.


As you may remember I have been developing a companion app to 
MapThePaths. In the first version of this (around two years ago) I 
experimented with auto-converting GPX traces to OSM ways. However I 
was dissatisfied with the results, the ways generated were really 
rather nasty and I ended up having to prettify them significantly in 
JOSM 

Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hello Tony and Gareth,

Thanks for your thoughts.

My main thought was a specialised JOSM plugin - I did take a look at OSM's main 
GPX trace facility but it appears not to preserve tags in the uploaded trace. 
Some versions of the MapThePaths app (the first version, and the current 
version on Gitlab) allow GPX upload to OSM but the tags are removed.

So I'm thinking that my own storage (I have quite a bit of available storage) 
and a custom JOSM plugin, which, for example, creates colour-coded and 
clickable traces showing the ROW designation, surface and highway tags might be 
the way to go.

Thanks,
Nick

From: Gareth L 
Sent: 14 May 2020 09:56
To: Tony OSM 
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to 
OSM (perhaps!)

I wonder if it would be possible to use the GPS trace feature on OSM for this? 
Maybe format the name in a way to make it easier to retrieve?

Takes care of the storage of the traces.


On 14 May 2020, at 09:22, Tony OSM  wrote:



Hi Nick

I like the two stage approach - surveying then mapping. It would work well - 
some of my friends like walking but can't map to save their life, whereas I 
can't walk far but love mapping - Win Win for us all.


May I suggest that a layer be created for JOSM with all the paths and their 
details as provided for MapThePaths. Personally I find it easier to work with 
JOSM and I have learnt to create a style to highlight PROW's, but I don't know 
how to create a JOSM layer.

Separate layers would allow us to manually transfer from PROW layer to MAP 
layer thus avoiding the mechanical import rules, and would allow us to manually 
conflate where a path is already mapped but PROW data is absent.

A layer containing the surveyed GPS data so that all the sources we need are 
available would be awesome.


I may be asking for a workflow that is close to existing, if that is the case I 
am able to test and document the workflow for the UK wiki if that would be 
helpful.


Tony Shield

TonyS999


On 13/05/2020 18:11, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

Oops... sorry one or two editing errors in the last paragraph.

I meant to say:

"They [the non-expert user] select ROW type and path surface via a nice 
interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated, *with trksegs tagged with 
ROW designation and surface* (which was done by the first version of the app 
anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert 
users *are alerted*. Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and, *using 
the tags in the trksegs of the GPX* then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM 
plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking 
of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending)."

Nick


From: Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 13 May 2020 18:08
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

Hi,

Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been noticing 
that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away from the 'honeypot' 
areas with little or now ROW mapping at all meaning there's still quite a big 
job to be done.

As you may remember I have been developing a companion app to MapThePaths. In 
the first version of this (around two years ago) I experimented with 
auto-converting GPX traces to OSM ways. However I was dissatisfied with the 
results, the ways generated were really rather nasty and I ended up having to 
prettify them significantly in JOSM afterwards, rendering the auto-creation 
facility a little pointless. Consequently later versions of the app have 
focused on merely presenting the council and OSM data overlaid (like the 
website),  with only limited editing facilities, to change the designation of a 
path.

However (and I may have mentioned this before, it's been a while) I am 
wondering about a 'two-user' approach in which a new user merely does the GPX 
survey, using an easy to use UI (a refined version of the MapThePaths app with 
the UI re-designed by someone more versed in UX than myself).

They select ROW type and path surface via a nice interface, and then a tagged 
GPX trace is generated (which was done by the first version of the app anyway). 
This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users. 
Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and then edits in JOSM, perhaps 
via a JOSM plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly 
thinking of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time 
depending).

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick




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Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

[Gareth L]

I wonder if it would be possible to use the GPS trace feature on OSM for this? 
Maybe format the name in a way to make it easier to retrieve?

Takes care of the storage of the traces.


On 14 May 2020, at 09:22, Tony OSM  wrote:



Hi Nick

I like the two stage approach - surveying then mapping. It would work well - 
some of my friends like walking but can't map to save their life, whereas I 
can't walk far but love mapping - Win Win for us all.


May I suggest that a layer be created for JOSM with all the paths and their 
details as provided for MapThePaths. Personally I find it easier to work with 
JOSM and I have learnt to create a style to highlight PROW's, but I don't know 
how to create a JOSM layer.

Separate layers would allow us to manually transfer from PROW layer to MAP 
layer thus avoiding the mechanical import rules, and would allow us to manually 
conflate where a path is already mapped but PROW data is absent.

A layer containing the surveyed GPS data so that all the sources we need are 
available would be awesome.


I may be asking for a workflow that is close to existing, if that is the case I 
am able to test and document the workflow for the UK wiki if that would be 
helpful.


Tony Shield

TonyS999


On 13/05/2020 18:11, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

Oops... sorry one or two editing errors in the last paragraph.

I meant to say:

"They [the non-expert user] select ROW type and path surface via a nice 
interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated, *with trksegs tagged with 
ROW designation and surface* (which was done by the first version of the app 
anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert 
users *are alerted*. Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and, *using 
the tags in the trksegs of the GPX* then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM 
plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking 
of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending)."

Nick


From: Nick Whitelegg
Sent: 13 May 2020 18:08
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 

Subject: Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

Hi,

Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been noticing 
that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away from the 'honeypot' 
areas with little or now ROW mapping at all meaning there's still quite a big 
job to be done.

As you may remember I have been developing a companion app to MapThePaths. In 
the first version of this (around two years ago) I experimented with 
auto-converting GPX traces to OSM ways. However I was dissatisfied with the 
results, the ways generated were really rather nasty and I ended up having to 
prettify them significantly in JOSM afterwards, rendering the auto-creation 
facility a little pointless. Consequently later versions of the app have 
focused on merely presenting the council and OSM data overlaid (like the 
website),  with only limited editing facilities, to change the designation of a 
path.

However (and I may have mentioned this before, it's been a while) I am 
wondering about a 'two-user' approach in which a new user merely does the GPX 
survey, using an easy to use UI (a refined version of the MapThePaths app with 
the UI re-designed by someone more versed in UX than myself).

They select ROW type and path surface via a nice interface, and then a tagged 
GPX trace is generated (which was done by the first version of the app anyway). 
This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users. 
Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace and then edits in JOSM, perhaps 
via a JOSM plugin - or even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly 
thinking of adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time 
depending).

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick




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Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

[Tony OSM]

Hi Nick

I like the two stage approach - surveying then mapping. It would work 
well - some of my friends like walking but can't map to save their life, 
whereas I can't walk far but love mapping - Win Win for us all.



May I suggest that a layer be created for JOSM with all the paths and 
their details as provided for MapThePaths. Personally I find it easier 
to work with JOSM and I have learnt to create a style to highlight 
PROW's, but I don't know how to create a JOSM layer.


Separate layers would allow us to manually transfer from PROW layer to 
MAP layer thus avoiding the mechanical import rules, and would allow us 
to manually conflate where a path is already mapped but PROW data is absent.


A layer containing the surveyed GPS data so that all the sources we need 
are available would be awesome.



I may be asking for a workflow that is close to existing, if that is the 
case I am able to test and document the workflow for the UK wiki if that 
would be helpful.



Tony Shield

TonyS999


On 13/05/2020 18:11, Nick Whitelegg wrote:


Oops... sorry one or two editing errors in the last paragraph.

I meant to say:

"They [the non-expert user] select ROW type and path surface via a 
nice interface, and then a tagged GPX trace is generated, *with 
trksegs tagged with ROW designation and surface* (which was done by 
the first version of the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the 
MapThePaths server, and volunteer expert users *are alerted*. Said 
expert user then downloads the GPX trace and, *using the tags in the 
trksegs of the GPX* then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - or 
even directly in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking of 
adding way creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending)."


Nick


*From:* Nick Whitelegg
*Sent:* 13 May 2020 18:08
*To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
*Subject:* Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM 
(perhaps!)

Hi,

Just to continue with the theme of rights of way mapping, I've been 
noticing that there are still large tracts of England and Wales away 
from the 'honeypot' areas with little or now ROW mapping at all 
meaning there's still quite a big job to be done.


As you may remember I have been developing a companion app to 
MapThePaths. In the first version of this (around two years ago) I 
experimented with auto-converting GPX traces to OSM ways. However I 
was dissatisfied with the results, the ways generated were really 
rather nasty and I ended up having to prettify them significantly in 
JOSM afterwards, rendering the auto-creation facility a little 
pointless. Consequently later versions of the app have focused on 
merely presenting the council and OSM data overlaid (like the 
website),  with only limited editing facilities, to change the 
designation of a path.


However (and I may have mentioned this before, it's been a while) I am 
wondering about a 'two-user' approach in which a new user merely does 
the GPX survey, using an easy to use UI (a refined version of the 
MapThePaths app with the UI re-designed by someone more versed in UX 
than myself).


They select ROW type and path surface via a nice interface, and then a 
tagged GPX trace is generated (which was done by the first version of 
the app anyway). This is then uploaded to the MapThePaths server, and 
volunteer expert users. Said expert user then downloads the GPX trace 
and then edits in JOSM, perhaps via a JOSM plugin - or even directly 
in the MapThePaths web app. (I am possibly thinking of adding way 
creation into the MapThePaths web app anyway, time depending).


Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick


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