Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 15:29, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB
 wrote:
> A shame really, an open, standard API - and accompanying open source clients 
> to the API - adopted by all councils for problem reporting would be a great 
> thing to have.

It would indeed be great. An open standard for this already exists --
it's called Open311. I don't think there's very much adoption of it
though. See https://www.open311.org/ and
https://www.mysociety.org/2013/01/10/open311-introduced/ . Fix
MyStreet can make use of it where it is available, and some of the
councils they have collaborated with may well support it.

If anyone is looking to create some sort of reporting tool for PRoW
faults, I'd suggest a system that will use Open311 if the council
supports it, and otherwise send the report through FixMyStreet.

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [Talk-GB] No U-turn on a long stretch of road

[Robert Skedgell]

This probably won't help routers much, but you could at least tag the
positions of the signs as nodes on the highway with
traffic_sign=GB:614 + direction=forward|backward

On 05/12/2020 14:27, Edward Bainton wrote:
> Sorry I should have made clear 
> 
> Rather than seeking to capture a subjective jmt in the map, I'm trying
> to capture "no U-turn" signs that are shopping this long stretch, . 
> 
> I agree a driver should use their discretion. Equally where it's
> actually prohibited do we want to capture that?
> 
> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020, 12:57 David Woolley,  > wrote:
> 
> On 05/12/2020 12:39, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > Any established tagging system?
> >
> > The turn restriction wiki
> >  > envisages
> > turn restrictions at junctions only; my case is along the length of a
> > major road (~3km). There's no barrier to prevent it, but presumably
> > routing engines ought to know that route correction after a wrong
> turn
> > will have to wait until the next roundabout.
> >
> 
> That's a subjective judgement, so would be tagging for the renderer.
> The renderer (in this case a router) should be using some sort of
> heuristic like only  permitting U turns on residential or service
> roads,
> and giving a heavy weighting to the use of formal junctions at the the
> expense of distance travelled.  A real human would consider actual
> traffic levels and sight distances but they would be difficult to
> capture on the map and time and season dependent.
> 
> I think No U Turn signs tend only to be used where traffic volumes or
> junction structures, might otherwise suggest U turns were acceptable.
> 
> I don't think any driver (or autonomous vehicle) should be making U
> Turns based solely on the instructions of an automated router.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application

[Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB]

>Some councils insist that problem reports only come through their own
>web sites, or reluctantly, by phone, and will ignore emails (which is
>the default presentation for FixMyStreet).

>The web sites generally provide structured input, whereas FixMyStreet is
>generally free text, and also, the web site sometimes bypasses the
>council contact centre, and goes direct to the out sourced contractor.

A while back I did build an app to send problem reports to Hampshire county 
council specifically, as Hampshire had a very keen and enthusiastic staff 
member. However I contacted other local councils asking for details on whether 
they had any APIs to send the data to, but either heard nothing or a response 
(as you said) that they were not so keen on input from other sources.

A shame really, an open, standard API - and accompanying open source clients to 
the API - adopted by all councils for problem reporting would be a great thing 
to have.

Nick



From: David Woolley 
Sent: 04 December 2020 16:49
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Idea - OSMUK walkers' map application

On 04/12/2020 16:38, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB wrote:
> However as you say council take up could be problematic. Maybe we could
> provide a link to FixMyStreet?

Some councils insist that problem reports only come through their own
web sites, or reluctantly, by phone, and will ignore emails (which is
the default presentation for FixMyStreet).

The web sites generally provide structured input, whereas FixMyStreet is
generally free text, and also, the web site sometimes bypasses the
council contact centre, and goes direct to the out sourced contractor.

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Re: [Talk-GB] No U-turn on a long stretch of road

[Edward Bainton]

Sorry I should have made clear

Rather than seeking to capture a subjective jmt in the map, I'm trying to
capture "no U-turn" signs that are shopping this long stretch, .

I agree a driver should use their discretion. Equally where it's actually
prohibited do we want to capture that?

On Sat, 5 Dec 2020, 12:57 David Woolley,  wrote:

> On 05/12/2020 12:39, Edward Bainton wrote:
> > Any established tagging system?
> >
> > The turn restriction wiki
> >  envisages
> > turn restrictions at junctions only; my case is along the length of a
> > major road (~3km). There's no barrier to prevent it, but presumably
> > routing engines ought to know that route correction after a wrong turn
> > will have to wait until the next roundabout.
> >
>
> That's a subjective judgement, so would be tagging for the renderer.
> The renderer (in this case a router) should be using some sort of
> heuristic like only  permitting U turns on residential or service roads,
> and giving a heavy weighting to the use of formal junctions at the the
> expense of distance travelled.  A real human would consider actual
> traffic levels and sight distances but they would be difficult to
> capture on the map and time and season dependent.
>
> I think No U Turn signs tend only to be used where traffic volumes or
> junction structures, might otherwise suggest U turns were acceptable.
>
> I don't think any driver (or autonomous vehicle) should be making U
> Turns based solely on the instructions of an automated router.
>
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] River Lugg

[SK53]

I suggest mapping the parish of Kingsland in detail from aerial imagery.
This will facilitate locating the re-profiled area from features visible in
photos and videos appearing in the news. For instance at least part of the
damaged bank is on the right bank extending downstream from a bridge with a
minor power line in the fields. There are also some distinctive farm
buildings in other photos.

Unfortunately, there doesnt seem to be any data on EA Stewardship payments
for the relevant area (from Anna Powell-Smith's map
). The SSSI is Natural England Open Data,
but as it covers more or less all of the Lugg might not be useful. However,
there are a couple of more extensive areas of SSSI which might be part of
the damaged area. LR Inspire land parcels may help delineate specific
farms. I presume this is a single farmer whose land abuts the river.

Jerry

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 16:46, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> Terrible news from Herefordshire:
>
>
> https://www.ledburyreporter.co.uk/news/18920990.environment-agency-launch-probe-river-lugg-destruction/
>
>
> https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/news/horror-destruction-nationally-important-uk-river
>
> about illegal reprofiling of a mile-long stretch of the Lugg. But we
> probably still need to map the changes.
>
> Do we have anyone local?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] No U-turn on a long stretch of road

[David Woolley]

On 05/12/2020 12:39, Edward Bainton wrote:

Any established tagging system?

The turn restriction wiki 
 envisages 
turn restrictions at junctions only; my case is along the length of a 
major road (~3km). There's no barrier to prevent it, but presumably 
routing engines ought to know that route correction after a wrong turn 
will have to wait until the next roundabout.




That's a subjective judgement, so would be tagging for the renderer. 
The renderer (in this case a router) should be using some sort of 
heuristic like only  permitting U turns on residential or service roads, 
and giving a heavy weighting to the use of formal junctions at the the 
expense of distance travelled.  A real human would consider actual 
traffic levels and sight distances but they would be difficult to 
capture on the map and time and season dependent.


I think No U Turn signs tend only to be used where traffic volumes or 
junction structures, might otherwise suggest U turns were acceptable.


I don't think any driver (or autonomous vehicle) should be making U 
Turns based solely on the instructions of an automated router.


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[Talk-GB] No U-turn on a long stretch of road

[Edward Bainton]

Any established tagging system?

The turn restriction wiki
 envisages turn
restrictions at junctions only; my case is along the length of a major road
(~3km). There's no barrier to prevent it, but presumably routing engines
ought to know that route correction after a wrong turn will have to wait
until the next roundabout.

Thanks as always.

Edward
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