Re: [Talk-GB] Road refs
0> In article <1535573378846-0.p...@n8.nabble.com>,
0> Richard Fairhurst mailto:rich...@systemed.net> ("Richard") wrote:
Richard> Toby Speight wrote:
>> That's why we have
>> rendering rules - if you don't like the rendering, change the rules.
Richard> What you're suggesting would imply that every worldwide site using
Richard> OSM data to display a consumer-facing map, or provide routing,
Richard> needs to write a special exception for Great Britain. With the
Richard> best will in the world, that doesn't and isn't going to happen. (I
Richard> think only one such site does so, and it's the one I run!)
Yeah, it seems that most don't make use of country-level tags, and
that's unfortunate: it leads to the situation we have now where every
mini-roundabout also has to have a "direction" tag instead of the router
just reading a country-level tag (hypothetically, "drives_on=left").
I guess the problem is that the API doesn't return enclosing areas like
it returns containing relations, so it's harder to see from a tile what
adminstrative region it's in.
Richard> Dave's edit (minutiae about highway_authority_ref vs
Richard> unsigned_ref vs official_ref aside[1]) brings this country into
Richard> line with how most of the rest of the world does it: the ref=
Richard> tag is for signposted references. See how
Richard> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref#Examples_on_ways
Richard> refers to "on the ground", "on the signs", "the usage on the
Richard> signs".
That text appears to be talking about whether refs include spaces or
hyphens, not whether to use ref or another tag (if there is another tag
that's understood worldwide, then it makes sense to do the same - but it
should be listed with Key:ref on the tag wiki so it can be found).
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Re: [Talk-GB] GB does not include Northern Ireland
>> Even in these days of Brexit, I don't think there's any movement for
>> Northern Ireland to leave GB. You've been misinformed!
0> In article ,
0> Martin Wynne mailto:mar...@templot.com> ("Martin") wrote:
Martin> Northern Ireland is part of the UK but it's not part of GB.
But UK is just an informal name for GB - The United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Northern Ireland. It even has "Northern Ireland" in the
name. GB without Northern Ireland would just be England, Scotland and
Wales or the island of Britain.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Road refs
0> In article ,
0> Dave F. mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com> ("Dave") wrote:
Dave> Point about OSM wiki: IMO giving multiple options for the same
Dave> entity leads to confusion & errors so should be avoided.
That's exactly what's problematic about "highways_authority_ref": it
creates a tag that contains the same information as belongs in "ref".
Based on the name, the similarity to ncn_ref and the like suggests a
non-authoritative alternative identifier.
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Re: [Talk-GB] GB does not include Northern Ireland
0> In article
,
0> Dan S. mailto:danstowell%2b...@gmail.com> ("Dan") wrote:
Dan> The documentation happened after-the-fact rather than in advance,
Dan> as the AECoC demands.
There's still no documentation on the tag wiki at [1] or [2].
Interestingly, there is a mention of "unsigned_ref" [3] that's close to
what's proposed. Perhaps that could be a way forward?
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref >
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway_authority_ref >
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:unsigned_ref >
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Re: [Talk-GB] GB does not include Northern Ireland
0> In article <6591308.YUxS5xHkjF@solus>,
0> WebMaster@Killyfole org uk mailto:webmas...@killyfole.org.uk> ("Wou")
wrote:
Wou> ... GB doesn't include Northern Ireland, ...
Even in these days of Brexit, I don't think there's any movement for
Northern Ireland to leave GB. You've been misinformed!
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Re: [Talk-GB] Road refs
0> In article <1535456684095-0.p...@n8.nabble.com>,
0> Richard Fairhurst mailto:rich...@systemed.net> ("Richard") wrote:
Richard> Toby Speight wrote:
>> Who is responsible for coordinating the related changes to software -
>> editors, renderers, converters and QA tools - that are required? I
>> see no sign of any of this having started.
Richard> No changes are required to core OSM software, but if your own
Richard> niche requires a map on which C-road refs are displayed (and I
Richard> recognise you from the SABRE forums, so I guess that might be
Richard> the case ;) ) I'd be more than happy to help you and/or others
Richard> set up a server to do that. I'm sure there are other people
Richard> here who'd extend the same offer of help.
Interesting that you say there's a "niche" where road refs should be
displayed; I consider it a "niche" that wants them hidden. I don't see
that we have to mis-tag them all to have them hidden - I can see it
would be useful to have a map with less clutter, but it shouldn't be
hard to do that without having to mangle the underlying OSM database!
Yes, I appreciate that if the highways_authority_ref were documented and
somehow agreed to be correct, then for mkgmap it would be a simple
matter of "add ref ${highways_authority_ref};" near the beginning; it
would be a bit harder to get a workable tag template for Merkaartor, but
tools like KeepRight and Geofabrik QA aren't so easily adjusted, and
unlikely to adopt new tagging until it's at least documented.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Road refs
0> In article
,
0> Andrew Hain mailto:andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk> ("Andrew") wrote:
Andrew> Toby, I really think you need to read through the conversation
Andrew> archived at
Andrew>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-August/thread.html
Andrew> and answer the points discussed there.
Thanks for that - it predates my joining this list. It seems to (partially)
answer only my first question - it's to benefit those who don't like their
rendering (on paper/screen or on a navigation device). That's why we have
rendering rules - if you don't like the rendering, change the rules. Using
the wrong tag for the data (especially a totally undocumented tag) to get a
rendering you like is really not helpful.
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[Talk-GB] Road refs
Recently, all the tertiary roads in my region had their ref tags removed, and replaced with "highways_authority_ref". A week later the unclassified and residential roads suffered similar attack. * Who is supposed to benefit from hiding these data? * Who is responsible for documenting what this tag means, and when it should be used in place of the standard tagging? So far, there's no mention of it on its own tag wiki, nor on key:ref * Who is responsible for coordinating the related changes to software - editors, renderers, converters and QA tools - that are required? I see no sign of any of this having started. In short, what's going on, what's wrong with the standard tagging, and how can we get the data back where they belong? ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
